Rekkou Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 24 minutes ago, PureIcarus said: No, whats wrong is how you are handling the forum thread in a matter that is attempting to make it look less important that it actually is. Things have gotten way too heated... yes... and im sorry for that. The term dieing for a video game isn't exactly accurate... For example... World of Warcraft looks like its still alive and kicking, sure there are still thousands of players, but they have lost almost 30% of their active accounts and has seen about a 60% reduction to new accounts. WoW is most definitely dieing. The point is, Warframe is going to start losing players rather rapidly if they do not show more support for all their players rather than 51%... for every 1 player who likes the game, there is something who has found something they don't like. Honestly, i have noticed the forums can be pretty toxic... (continues to watch the fireworks in this post that have started)... Progressing towards a unified goal is only 1 part of the solution, getting DE to notice is another... i have a post from Sunday filled with things i have found as flaws in warframe, i have many people supporting it, and i try my hardest to explain my points to people who disagree, some of whom have even began supporting. The other issue is hundreds of copy posts... 1 post with 100,000 followers is stronger than 100 posts with 1000 followers. I'm wrong if you are not, but you are wrong because you keep adding up every suggestion with empty threat that the game will die for not following your suggestion. I will support anyone sharing your suggestion but without that attitude. Undoubtedly in one way or another warframe will eventually die, everyone will die but it never means you can use that fear to dictate their lives and force them to follow your idealism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_-Malicious-Melodi-_ Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, Rekkou said: I'm wrong if you are not, but you are wrong because you keep adding up every suggestion with empty threat that the game will die for not following your suggestion. I will support anyone sharing your suggestion but without that attitude. Undoubtedly in one way or another warframe will eventually die, everyone will die but it never means you can use that fear to dictate their lives and force them to follow your idealism. There you go again with using the hostile approach. Its not a threat, nor is it a promise, in fact, if it is anything, its foresight. They say Hindsight is 20/20.... Its not that my suggestions will 'save' the game... its that they will improve the game. Thus, they will open the door to even more improvements. Ignoring your community is a sure fire way to get people to not want to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabolusUrsus Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Years later, and it's still the exact same chorus of "They'll get around to polishing all these old issues in due time, for realz." New movement was a huge plus. Story is crawling along, at least. That's good, sure. Warframe is still just a graphically pretty bare-bones multiplayer platform. Progression is flat. Gameplay is flat. The game universe is flat. At least the Tenno can play sports now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
---RNGesus--- Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 4 hours ago, Pratigious said: I prefer quality over quantity. And I am tired of waiting for new content like the rest of the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirabot Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Rekkou said: Face what? some people whining that game will die just because their demands are not met? DE have been facing those people for years and not a single time those people are proven right. Rekkou // Rekt-jou (Wrecked you) I think we have a misunderstanding on our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeithanDiniem Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Mr.Lube said: They should be watching and polishing a new system from release to the day it's complete. Not throwing in a half finished mess and waiting years before looking at it again. Do you have any idea how much testing, feedback, and bugs can be discovered within a single day of a content release compared to even a month of a limited team focusing on those exact aspects in a closed system, non stop for the entire time? It doesn't even compare at all. The amount of testing they are capable in their limited numbers is a fraction of a percent. You have utterly no idea how game development goes, do you? 1 hour ago, Mr.Lube said: Every other dev team does it. I can't understand why DE doesn't. You have so little experience with other games that your argument isn't even logical. The number of companies that get it right on launch with no updates ever and no bugs at all after release is sitting on a big fat 0. So no, you don't know anything about what you are talking about here 1 hour ago, PureIcarus said: As i said... its a world of copying what works.... someone will make a space ninja game similar to warframe, it will have a unique mechanic that beats out warframe and people will go to that game. Stop acting like its never happend, stop acting like it will never happen. Im not saying it will happen now... or even soon.... but the chances of it happening are there. The chances of the sun imploding into a black hole exist at every moment of the day. Eventually it is going to happen. Eventually every person reading this is going to die. Eventualities are always going to the there, it is no different with games. That is the fate of every game that exists. Eventually every single game looses its players, left to only be enjoyed by the small few that still have old copies. Online games don't even offer that luxury, being lost to the world once their servers go offline. Of course it is going to happen, so stop acting like if DE fixes things it is magically going to defy every game before and survive forever. DE's Warframe thus far is still a smashing success, and this update is specifically addressed to doing the very things you mentioned. The void changes are a fix of a system that has been around since the game first began, and the solar map is an improved version of the original. The market changes are a serious QoL change that adds a ridiculous amount of refinement to the market, which until now has been quite clunky to use. The changes to Archwing are being done to do the very thing you mentioned before, to fix old content. Also, no, a scorpion 180 grapple of you through a wall is a post-it note on an obscure page in the document that is the actual core problem of the game. You are looking at such an insignificant issue and trying to make it into a mountain. There are far more important, overarching issues that DE has already publicly and repeatedly announced that they are looking into the issue and finding a way to fix it. The core problems of the game have fallen upon a bloated mod system, unbalanced and untiered weapon progression, and an antiquated scaling system. These are HUGE things to fix, practically requiring every aspect of the game's combat and equipment to be looked at. It is going to take a long time to address. It is a system that is so large, knowing how to go about fixing it beforehand with a solid, tested, thought out plan is paramount. They cannot just stop development and go "We're all going to fix these things now" because if they did not only would they run the risk of making the system worse off, but they'd lose the majority of their players in the process. It is a very touchy and difficult thing they are faced with, so rushing them is doing you or the game zero favors. The entire team needs work to do, so they make content and fix bugs that come up. Deep issues like this have to be planned on how to go about fixing it before you put people to work on it, least you waste time and money making something that doesn't work. Let the lead developers of DE work out a solution carefully with the feedback from the forums and the design council instead of people trying to be keyboard warriors on the forums and rushing them needlessly. As to their perpetual beta system, that is purely and specifically there to say "We plan to make big changes and keep developing content." Thats all it is. Anyone else trying to make it be a way to justify bugs sticking around, or those that think that is why DE has the beta tag, are in the wrong. 1 hour ago, Pratigious said: And you do?You know how to make a game?I just want Dev's to have really good content. Working your butt off under pressure is not good. Any kind of activity that requires you to rush is not good. And yet here you are saying DE should rush fixing the game? Game development is rushing. Always. You always have an impending deadline, someone else waiting on your work to get to them so they can get to their work, upper management asking you how the project is coming along and when it will be finished. Not everyone in the team is a part of the group that plans out how these fixes are going to be done. While the planning is being done, the other people are working, thus new content is being made. Some of that new content builds up speed and requires people to focus a bit on it, but that doesn't mean they have stopped trying to fix things. Only about a third of the issues you initially pointed out are actual problems, namely the lack of dojo content being the largest, which is already being addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)urkonse Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 TF -_- FASTER UP instead......have you any idea how long ps4 has to wait for each new content ._. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Lube Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said: You have so little experience with other games that your argument isn't even logical. The number of companies that get it right on launch with no updates ever and no bugs at all after release is sitting on a big fat 0. So no, you don't know anything about what you are talking about here I'm not saying that they need to get it right on the first try, because nobody does. I'm saying that they need to finish what they started instead of leaving it to rot for a year and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeithanDiniem Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, Mr.Lube said: I'm not saying that they need to get it right on the first try, because nobody does. I'm saying that they need to finish what they started instead of leaving it to rot for a year and a half. And what do you think the Archwing changes are? or the Void reward changes? These are fixes to outdated, broken systems that are over a year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homiedudemanguy Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 as everyone has stated here already, they HAVE taken their time with these updates for U19 and its also SEGMENTED to spend MORE time on actually polishing it up rather than rushing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirabot Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said: Said many logical, pragmatic and very truthful things. Many deaf ears, dim and objective minds litter this place. I commend your effort however. Edited July 8, 2016 by Sirabot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekkou Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 8 minutes ago, PureIcarus said: There you go again with using the hostile approach. Its not a threat, nor is it a promise, in fact, if it is anything, its foresight. They say Hindsight is 20/20.... Its not that my suggestions will 'save' the game... its that they will improve the game. Thus, they will open the door to even more improvements. Ignoring your community is a sure fire way to get people to not want to play the game. Who is really hostile here? people who keeps saying "people will leave your game" your game will die" or people who simply said "stop threatening!" And they never ignore feedback, plenty of things have been made, fixed and changed based on feedback. Just because they haven't made improvement based on your specific issue with the game, never means they will never fix or improve it on the future. But here you are acting hostiles towards the game, blaming everything on content , ignoring actual improvements that have been made and threaten it, yes you are threatening it, no need to twist words. 1 minute ago, Sirabot said: Rekkou // Rekt-jou (Wrecked you) I think we have a misunderstanding on our hands. glad to know that, always glad to have more people on your side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_-Malicious-Melodi-_ Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, Rekkou said: Who is really hostile here? people who keeps saying "people will leave your game" your game will die" or people who simply said "stop threatening!" And they never ignore feedback, plenty of things have been made, fixed and changed based on feedback. Just because they haven't made improvement based on your specific issue with the game, never means they will never fix or improve it on the future. But here you are acting hostiles towards the game, blaming everything on content , ignoring actual improvements that have been made and threaten it, yes you are threatening it, no need to twist words. How can 1 person threaten a whole game? Answer that... Its not a threat, its a statistical analysis based on presented facts and evidence. A game that fails to provide a strong core and coherent content for all players is more likely to be crushed by its own content. Black Desert Online is a perfect example of this... The game released with a MASSIVE amount of content, much of which was unpolished and unfinished, the game was also released in NA as buy to play. The game in all areas, EU, NA and SEA has been losing players steadily. Another example is Dragons Prophet, a game that released with a lot of hype, but ended up having a weak core gameplay and many unfinished systems in place... almost no one actually plays that game anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeithanDiniem Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, PureIcarus said: How can 1 person threaten a whole game? Answer that... Its not a threat, its a statistical analysis based on presented facts and evidence. A game that fails to provide a strong core and coherent content for all players is more likely to be crushed by its own content. Black Desert Online is a perfect example of this... The game released with a MASSIVE amount of content, much of which was unpolished and unfinished, the game was also released in NA as buy to play. The game in all areas, EU, NA and SEA has been losing players steadily. Another example is Dragons Prophet, a game that released with a lot of hype, but ended up having a weak core gameplay and many unfinished systems in place... almost no one actually plays that game anymore. Not exactly good examples when Warframe has been out over 4 years already and still going strong while the other two are younger. See my longer comment a bit above to see other replies to your specific comments related to these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_-Malicious-Melodi-_ Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, NeithanDiniem said: Not exactly good examples when Warframe has been out over 4 years already and still going strong while the other two are younger. See my longer comment a bit above to see other replies to your specific comments related to these. The point is, if DE continues to just push out more content rather than fixing the existing content, players, reviewers, developers, ect. are going to take notice of this and all the hard work DE has put into the game up until now is not going to look nearly as good. Critics are harsh, there are already reviews containing words like "repetitive, unpolished, lacking creativity." Many of them say the game is fun to play for short periods of time and interesting to come back to after a while of not playing it. That shouldn't be what DE aims for, they should be trying to keep players around the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeithanDiniem Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, PureIcarus said: The point is, if DE continues to just push out more content rather than fixing the existing content, players, reviewers, developers, ect. are going to take notice of this and all the hard work DE has put into the game up until now is not going to look nearly as good. Critics are harsh, there are already reviews containing words like "repetitive, unpolished, lacking creativity." Many of them say the game is fun to play for short periods of time and interesting to come back to after a while of not playing it. That shouldn't be what DE aims for, they should be trying to keep players around the whole time. Everything you've said I've also talked about earlier, explaining what they have already said they are doing about the exact problems you've brought up. They are aware of what is needed to be fixed and already have people working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_-Malicious-Melodi-_ Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, NeithanDiniem said: Everything you've said I've also talked about earlier, explaining what they have already said they are doing about the exact problems you've brought up. They are aware of what is needed to be fixed and already have people working on it. Honestly, they are only fixing half the problems. The other half is creating properly polished and tested content. Im not sure they are aware of much of that... They are operating under the pretense of a "perpetual beta". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirabot Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 1 minute ago, PureIcarus said: The point is, if DE continues to just push out more content rather than fixing the existing content, players, reviewers, developers, ect. are going to take notice of this and all the hard work DE has put into the game up until now is not going to look nearly as good. Critics are harsh, there are already reviews containing words like "repetitive, unpolished, lacking creativity." Many of them say the game is fun to play for short periods of time and interesting to come back to after a while of not playing it. That shouldn't be what DE aims for, they should be trying to keep players around the whole time. Huh. Want something recent? Two of the biggest reviewers on youtube seem to be digging it. DE can't keep up with player content consumption. No matter what they do, everything will eventually become repetitive because that's the nature of all games. And "polish" comes in smaller waves because they spend most of their dev time trying to meet their bottom line, and create new content for the player base to consume. Your expectations are unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_-Malicious-Melodi-_ Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, Sirabot said: Huh. Want something recent? Two of the biggest reviewers on youtube seem to be digging it. DE can't keep up with player content consumption. No matter what they do, everything will eventually become repetitive because that's the nature of all games. And "polish" comes in smaller waves because they spend most of their dev time trying to meet their bottom line, and create new content for the player base to consume. Your expectations are unrealistic. My expectations are hoping the game gets better... to say the game is good as it is... that is unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirabot Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Just now, PureIcarus said: My expectations are hoping the game gets better... to say the game is good as it is... that is unrealistic. Good as is? A stretch. Good enough for now? Sure. Edited July 8, 2016 by Sirabot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_-Malicious-Melodi-_ Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, Sirabot said: Good as is? A stretch. Good enough for now? Sure. Players should never be content with what they have... they should always be voicing opinions to make the game grow. Telling players their opinions are no valid because YOU are content is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekkou Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 18 minutes ago, PureIcarus said: How can 1 person threaten a whole game? Answer that... Its not a threat, its a statistical analysis based on presented facts and evidence. A game that fails to provide a strong core and coherent content for all players is more likely to be crushed by its own content. Black Desert Online is a perfect example of this... The game released with a MASSIVE amount of content, much of which was unpolished and unfinished, the game was also released in NA as buy to play. The game in all areas, EU, NA and SEA has been losing players steadily. Another example is Dragons Prophet, a game that released with a lot of hype, but ended up having a weak core gameplay and many unfinished systems in place... almost no one actually plays that game anymore. That's the hilarious part, you can't but you're still doing it. It's a threat because the way you use it, again if you want put up suggestion you can always do just that. But you always need to follow it with things just like that. If warframe is really that broken then 4 years of doing things that should break them will break them, but they didn't show any actual sign of shrinking. Just because you believe it's the content that ruins the other game, you keep claiming it will also ruin warframe. Have it occured to you same thing can results very differently because of other things? It's like some people died in a car crash and you keep telling me i will also die in car crash simply because i drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_-Malicious-Melodi-_ Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 1 minute ago, Rekkou said: That's the hilarious part, you can't but you're still doing it. It's a threat because the way you use it, again if you want put up suggestion you can always do just that. But you always need to follow it with things just like that. If warframe is really that broken then 4 years of doing things that should break them will break them, but they didn't show any actual sign of shrinking. Just because you believe it's the content that ruins the other game, you keep claiming it will also ruin warframe. Have it occured to you same thing can results very differently because of other things? It's like some people died in a car crash and you keep telling me i will also die in car crash simply because i drive. Fine, i will stop saying the game will die... but the game is very very far from perfect. DE's current progression of content has become very chaotic and mismatched... much of it fails to work in sync with older content and much of it is not properly tested in all situations. DE does need to slow down and Test. Polish and question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekkou Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, PureIcarus said: Fine, i will stop saying the game will die... but the game is very very far from perfect. DE's current progression of content has become very chaotic and mismatched... much of it fails to work in sync with older content and much of it is not properly tested in all situations. DE does need to slow down and Test. Polish and question. That i can agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_-Malicious-Melodi-_ Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Just now, Rekkou said: That i can agree. This whole thing was really about how i perceive the future of Warframe coming to if they don't fix their ways? Sorry, i was interpreting you as trying to say the game had no serious issues that could effect the future of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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