Tigris Prime Confirmed (With Link) Personal Feedback (Salt Warning)

[ZodiacShinryu]

23 minutes ago, Caseph said:

Anku Prime :>

What I have in mind isn't particularly an already existing weapon. I was picturing something more on the scale on War/Galatine sized with a more polearm-y scythe hybrid stance. The current line of scythes barely look like they reach sizes of our wingspan (in fact Nekro's codex makes ether reaper look like its only a little larger than half/two thirds of a frames wingspan and its one of the larger looking scythes) but like I said I kind yearn for something more heavier feeling. Where the length of the weapon is a bit larger than wingspan/height of a frame.

That said ether reaper looks more appealing than anku. Also sorry for pulling this away from the current topic.

[(PSN)skydrive]

What I would like to see in the Tigris Prime is this.

Lower base damage then the Sancti Tigris. 0.5 reload speed or less, and higher critical chance.

Do that, and it will give players a reason to have both, making them different, Prime bit better in damage output, but not having the Syndicate proc. that also heals.

[CrudShuzKong]

both galatine and tigris prime are bad ideas, as both of them are part of the most prominent weapon types in their catoegory already. Shotguns are amoungst the strongest primaries and heavy blades are the best melee. Galatine is a clone of scindo already and we have sancti tigris that is god tier too. why are we not allowed to use other weapon types in high level missions.... (dual daggers? claws? crossbows?)

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

2 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

both galatine and tigris prime are bad ideas, as both of them are part of the most prominent weapon types in their catoegory already. Shotguns are amoungst the strongest primaries and heavy blades are the best melee. Galatine is a clone of scindo already and we have sancti tigris that is god tier too. why are we not allowed to use other weapon types in high level missions.... (dual daggers? claws? crossbows?)

You say that, but.... why are they the most prominent? Highest Damage numbers? Best hit ratio? Honestly, its all opinion. I use the Dread, it has the highest Damage potential out of every weapon in the game... is it the best? Who knows.... As for melee, i like the Dual Ichors.... Twin Sword Stance + Twin Axe Crit Rate + Twin Dagger attack rate, Combined with an inate toxic damage allowing for multiple element combos and a great berserk build. You choose shotguns and heavy melee, it doesn't make them the best.

[(PSN)skydrive]

2 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

both galatine and tigris prime are bad ideas, as both of them are part of the most prominent weapon types in their catoegory already. Shotguns are amoungst the strongest primaries and heavy blades are the best melee. Galatine is a clone of scindo already and we have sancti tigris that is god tier too. why are we not allowed to use other weapon types in high level missions.... (dual daggers? claws? crossbows?)

You can. I'm sure there is a YouTube video somewhere showing this.

Also... how do you get a Giant Sword is a clone of a Giant Axe with rather different stats? Not to mention the most used heavy blade is War currently, and it used to be people saying Dragon Nikana or Dakra Prime or go home, which were out before War.

[CrudShuzKong]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)skydrive said:

You can. I'm sure there is a YouTube video somewhere showing this.

Also... how do you get a Giant Sword is a clone of a Giant Axe with rather different stats? Not to mention the most used heavy blade is War currently, and it used to be people saying Dragon Nikana or Dakra Prime or go home, which were out before War.

both are slash based heavy blades that have VERY similar stats, with scindo just being better in some points in exchange for some range. the weapons play exactly the same, and another one of them will not help. on top of that there is the war which is an impact version of the galatine with better stats. 

and then there is dual dagger weapons that cant crit, claws that cant slash and reapers that are just mastery fodder.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

2 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

both are slash based heavy blades that have VERY similar stats, with scindo just being better in some points in exchange for some range. the weapons play exactly the same, and another one of them will not help. on top of that there is the war which is an impact version of the galatine with better stats. 

and then there is dual dagger weapons that cant crit, claws that cant slash and reapers that are just mastery fodder.

I think people forget that "Prime" doesn't inherently mean "Better"... Prime is just the Original Version of the weapon, the Orokin version. 

[CrudShuzKong]

9 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

You say that, but.... why are they the most prominent? Highest Damage numbers? Best hit ratio? Honestly, its all opinion. I use the Dread, it has the highest Damage potential out of every weapon in the game... is it the best? Who knows.... As for melee, i like the Dual Ichors.... Twin Sword Stance + Twin Axe Crit Rate + Twin Dagger attack rate, Combined with an inate toxic damage allowing for multiple element combos and a great berserk build. You choose shotguns and heavy melee, it doesn't make them the best.

Well there is no doubt that DPS-wise nothing can beat out heavy blades right now. they hit hard, crit hard, have great range and the sheer amount of attack speed buffs and mods in the game makes their only downside laughable.

I do use dual ichors a lot, but they do not keep up with the slach procs of a red critting scindo prime at all.

Shotguns arent the best, but they are amongst the best. No need to add to that category right now.

[CrudShuzKong]

3 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

I think people forget that "Prime" doesn't inherently mean "Better"... Prime is just the Original Version of the weapon, the Orokin version. 

name a prime that is an actual sidegrade to its base weapon. Its a strict upgrade, even if its in weird directions sometimes. Im not saying that having those primes is a bad thing, i jsut want other things first to improve the diversity of top tier weapons.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, CrudShuzKong said:

Well there is no doubt that DPS-wise nothing can beat out heavy blades right now. they hit hard, crit hard, have great range and the sheer amount of attack speed buffs and mods in the game makes their only downside laughable.

I do use dual ichors a lot, but they do not keep up with the slach procs of a red critting scindo prime at all.

Shotguns arent the best, but they are amongst the best. No need to add to that category right now.

Well, i would disagree with the beating out Heavy Blades, the Dual Icors with the correct elemental build can pretty much out dps everything due to the status chance alone.

As for adding prime weapons, DE seems to be adding primes based on "popularity" when they should be adding primes based on least popularity and adding better stats and additional bonuses to thoes weapons to give them popularity. Adding another Tigris, when everyone already uses the Sacti Tigris isn't going to do much, and it wont do anything for other weapons.

[CrudShuzKong]

2 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

Well, i would disagree with the beating out Heavy Blades, the Dual Icors with the correct elemental build can pretty much out dps everything due to the status chance alone.

 

Whats your chose elementals? Viral is only really great with 4x CP and i'm talking solo play, so the other option is corrosive, and until ichors have stripped armor my scindo already procced bleed once and i move on to the next enemy while he dies on his own. This is just my personal experience and i guess that after around 1.5 h of t4 survival the ichors will take over, but whenever i ran up to that time my scindo performed better.

[(PSN)skydrive]

8 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

both are slash based heavy blades that have VERY similar stats, with scindo just being better in some points in exchange for some range. the weapons play exactly the same, and another one of them will not help. on top of that there is the war which is an impact version of the galatine with better stats. 

and then there is dual dagger weapons that cant crit, claws that cant slash and reapers that are just mastery fodder.

Incorrect, War is closer to Scindo Prime in Stats. War has the Crit chance of a Scindo Prime and the Status of a Galatine, but it has the base attack speed that puts it closer to the Scindo Prime in regards to stats.

Knowing this, the Galatine Prime will probably have a higher base damage then the War, yes, but not the same Crit Chance, and even with a Primed Fury, a Berserker Body Count Blood Rush War will hit faster then a regular Galatine, and reach Red Crits.

What one must consider is this, how will it be in comparision. I hope that its Critical Chance will either stay at 10%, or go up to 15%. However, increase its Critical Multiplier to something like 5x, 6x, maybe even 8x. Make the Crits rare, but oh so satisfying. Even with Blood Rush you cannot get auto crits on a Galatine, or atleast not very quickly, which means a rather lack of Red Crits being available.

6 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

name a prime that is an actual sidegrade to its base weapon. Its a strict upgrade, even if its in weird directions sometimes. Im not saying that having those primes is a bad thing, i jsut want other things first to improve the diversity of top tier weapons.

Sicarus Prime?

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, CrudShuzKong said:

Whats your chose elementals? Viral is only really great with 4x CP and i'm talking solo play, so the other option is corrosive, and until ichors have stripped armor my scindo already procced bleed once and i move on to the next enemy while he dies on his own. This is just my personal experience and i guess that after around 1.5 h of t4 survival the ichors will take over, but whenever i ran up to that time my scindo performed better.

If i'm facing Grineer, ill go with Corrosive, Corrosive no only strips armor, it also does increased damage to armor, 75% increased if i remember correctly. After you have removed the armor, the health pool will already be relatively low and easy to kill off, if its not, i have my dread with massive slash damage to finish from afar.

If its the Corpus or the Infestation, ill generally go with a Viral build, occasionally ill go with a Toxic and Radiation build, the Viral or Toxic bypasses shields and eliminates health rather fast, while radiation is stronger against ancients. 

Status builds on many weapons like the ichor have always beaten out pure damage builds, especially at higher level play. A 5m hp corpus target may take 1500 damage and 500 damage slash procs from one weapon, but a single viral proc would technically do 2.5m damage in 1 hit.

[CrudShuzKong]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)skydrive said:

Incorrect, War is closer to Scindo Prime in Stats. War has the Crit chance of a Scindo Prime and the Status of a Galatine, but it has the base attack speed that puts it closer to the Scindo Prime in regards to stats.

Knowing this, the Galatine Prime will probably have a higher base damage then the War, yes, but not the same Crit Chance, and even with a Primed Fury, a Berserker Body Count Blood Rush War will hit faster then a regular Galatine, and reach Red Crits.

What one must consider is this, how will it be in comparision. I hope that its Critical Chance will either stay at 10%, or go up to 15%. However, increase its Critical Multiplier to something like 5x, 6x, maybe even 8x. Make the Crits rare, but oh so satisfying. Even with Blood Rush you cannot get auto crits on a Galatine, or atleast not very quickly, which means a rather lack of Red Crits being available.

Sicarus Prime?

yeah sicarus prime can actually be counted as a side grade, but that doesnt really devalue my point...

anything with more than 10% crit chance gets up to red crits in no time with blood rush so above that only the crit damage multiplier counts and one that is this high would make the weapon the bes immediatly, no matter how crappy the base stats.

And i do not think comparing the galatine to war makes any sense since slash always wins in my book due to the procs being literally good vs everything. You dont notice it on lower level missions, but as soon as armor kicks in, the slash melee is the way to go (except for armorstripping corrosive status). I even favor the galatine over the war in endless runs because of that.

4 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

If i'm facing Grineer, ill go with Corrosive, Corrosive no only strips armor, it also does increased damage to armor, 75% increased if i remember correctly. After you have removed the armor, the health pool will already be relatively low and easy to kill off, if its not, i have my dread with massive slash damage to finish from afar.

If its the Corpus or the Infestation, ill generally go with a Viral build, occasionally ill go with a Toxic and Radiation build, the Viral or Toxic bypasses shields and eliminates health rather fast, while radiation is stronger against ancients. 

Status builds on many weapons like the ichor have always beaten out pure damage builds, especially at higher level play. A 5m hp corpus target may take 1500 damage and 500 damage slash procs from one weapon, but a single viral proc would technically do 2.5m damage in 1 hit.

I think you got something wrong there, radiation is -75% agains ancients and thus the worst element to bring against infested...

I agree on status beating out pure damage im many super lategame scenarios, but what im talking about on the scindo/galatine is their ability to inflic slash status, which bypassses shields and armor too, but is affected by crits and basedamage which means that htose 2 weapons are the best to inflict them.

[Vohim]

Potato Prime

 

been waiting for tigris prime for a while but mostly im waiting for valkyr prime

Edited July 10, 2016 by Retepzednem

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

5 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

I think you got something wrong there, radiation is -75% agains ancients and thus the worst element to bring against infested...

I agree on status beating out pure damage im many super lategame scenarios, but what im talking about on the scindo/galatine is their ability to inflic slash status, which bypassses shields and armor too, but is affected by crits and basedamage which means that htose 2 weapons are the best to inflict them.

hmm, i may have to redo my anti-infested build... however, slash damage does reduced damage to armor, sometimes severely reduced. On those larger weapons tho, you do have to take into consideration Attack speed, combined with a good crit rate and status chance... the galatine may start out stronger, but the ichors would surpass it in damage rather quickly... and if its something that dies before the ichors catch up in damage, its probably low enough that it doesn't matter what weapon you pick.

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

1 hour ago, PureIcarus said:

Now that i think about it.... Primes were originaly designed with altered mod polarities in mind... but with the MASSIVE rate at which forma can be obtained, they really have lost their original purpose. Maybe Prime Weapons 2.0 needs to be a thing for altered effects or something 

a good number of prime weapons are unpolarized or utterly lackluster in polarization. syndicate weapons win there too.

[(PSN)urkonse]

Galatine p??????  YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[CrudShuzKong]

26 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

hmm, i may have to redo my anti-infested build... however, slash damage does reduced damage to armor, sometimes severely reduced. On those larger weapons tho, you do have to take into consideration Attack speed, combined with a good crit rate and status chance... the galatine may start out stronger, but the ichors would surpass it in damage rather quickly... and if its something that dies before the ichors catch up in damage, its probably low enough that it doesn't matter what weapon you pick.

slash damage is reduced (a lot), but the slash status procs are not. those become your main source of damage once armor kicks in, and it works wonders. that damage keeps up with the ichors for a long time (1h t4 survival the scindo was performing better still).

Edited July 10, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

Just now, CrudShuzKong said:

slash damage is reduced (a lot), but the slash status procs are not. those become your mains source of damage once armor kicks in, and it works wonders. that damage keeps up with the ichors for a long time (1h t4 survival the scindo was performing better still).

I think you are missing one thing... the Armor stat and the Armor Hp bar are 2 different things. You dont remove the armor stat when you hit something with corrosive, you simply change its health type, where as slash is still subject to the armor stat. The only way to bypass the armor stat is Status procs that affect health/armor hp lines (Viral and Corrosive) tho they dont actually DO that damage, they just remove that much from the overall pool... The other only way to bypass armor is finishers, they do a set damage that ignores all defense.

[Trichouette]

2 hours ago, drewfishking said:

burst DPS

Burst ≠ DPS

Anyway, I was expecting a sybaris or even the crossbow (can't remember the name). I don't have any opinion whatsoever about the tigris prime, for the simple reason that we have no idea yet what the weapon will be like.

It could be an even better burst, or maybe play on crit, or simply have more ammo (like vectis).

But one thing for sure, if it deals more damage, the tigris & sancti will be forgotten (unless maybe for the syndicate proc), and if it's a crit based weapon, the vaykor hek will be forgotten as well.

It's not the first nor the last time that we talk about powercreep, the only way DE can get rid of powercreep is by balancing weapons & damage / enemies / abilities / scaling.

But that'll probably never happen.

[CrudShuzKong]

3 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

I think you are missing one thing... the Armor stat and the Armor Hp bar are 2 different things. You dont remove the armor stat when you hit something with corrosive, you simply change its health type, where as slash is still subject to the armor stat. The only way to bypass the armor stat is Status procs that affect health/armor hp lines (Viral and Corrosive) tho they dont actually DO that damage, they just remove that much from the overall pool... The other only way to bypass armor is finishers, they do a set damage that ignores all defense.

Slash procs Deal finisher damage. no reductions are applied they always deal full 35% of your weapons base damage per tick. crit and headshot multipliers DO apply.

[CrudShuzKong]

8 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Burst ≠ DPS

Anyway, I was expecting a sybaris or even the crossbow (can't remember the name). I don't have any opinion whatsoever about the tigris prime, for the simple reason that we have no idea yet what the weapon will be like.

It could be an even better burst, or maybe play on crit, or simply have more ammo (like vectis).

But one thing for sure, if it deals more damage, the tigris & sancti will be forgotten (unless maybe for the syndicate proc), and if it's a crit based weapon, the vaykor hek will be forgotten as well.

It's not the first nor the last time that we talk about powercreep, the only way DE can get rid of powercreep is by balancing weapons & damage / enemies / abilities / scaling.

But that'll probably never happen.

actually the stat called "burst dps" is a relevant term taht has been used in warframe for quite some time and it means the dps you put out with a single mag, or controlled burst of your weapon. this "burst" can actually take quite long, but is still disregarding reload times that are taken into the calculation of "sustained DPS".

Edited July 10, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

1 minute ago, CrudShuzKong said:

actually the stat called "burst dps" is a relevant term taht has been used in warframe for quite some time and it means the dps you put out with a single mag, or controlled burst of your weapon. this "burst" can actually take quite long, but is still disregarding reload times that are taken into the calculation of "sustained DPS".

Actually the term Burst DPS comes from having a steady dps capable of bursting at high dps for short times. Its an MMO term usually  given to mages. The Ash could be considered a burst DPS frame if Bladestorm wasn't actually spammable.

[LunarEdge7]

... I wanted Panthera Prime for my Nekros Prime.

I guess that hope is shattered for now. No Isaac Clarke Prime.. ;-;