Discussing The Exploiting Of Ftp Accounts On Forums

[2ply]

I am in no way an authority on the topic but I do see the topic in action.

 

Some quick examples.

 

1.) BUMP!

 

As we all may know,  posting a reply bumps a thread and as such puts it directly on top of the list. As a recruiter for a clan I know this is a big step to actually obtaining clan members who visit the forums. It seems the clan recruitment thread that stays on top obtains the highest yield in recruits!

 

Many recruiters have exploited the FTP account system by making alt accounts so that they can post glorified posts about their clans (in their own words) on their recruitment thread under the guise that the comment is coming from an outside party with interest.

 

This not only BUMPS the thread but it creates the illusion that the clan is actually more popular than it is, this method is very effective at drumming up the numbers. Not to mention the FTP account can be given an invite to the clan to baloon the members list, giving new recruits the illusion that they are in a larger clan. I think this method has been very successful for some.

 

Its not good!

 

Aside from the fact this is a faily pathetic way of obtaining popularity amonst the crowd, it is a form of spam which equates to extra work for forum moderators to sort through. Aside from that, those who employ these methods are taking an unfair advantage over the other less dishonest clan recruiters in terms of potential exposure and as a result member gain. It is as if you stuffed the ballot box at the election.

 

2.) I WIN because my friends say so.

 

Often times when a person comes up with an idea for improvement for an aspect of this game they will post it here in the forums. IF someone renders their idea invalid or lacking merit that person can easily just create 10 free accounts to back his idea in an attempt to promote a bandwagon effect among the future crowd of observers.

 

Its not good!

 

This again produces spam, and is unfair in that if an idea is truly good and the majority of the community agree with it; it will naturally rise to the top through organic bumps by the community of actual players. This is unfair to those who have awesome ideas but those ideas are buried by that guy who insists on staying on the top of the discussion until his idea is implimented through the use of his/her alt accounts.

 

3.) Freedom to Abuse (rules? please...#FTP4Life!)

 

With the ability to freely create alt accounts and instantly go to the forums and start your posting it enables people to abuse others without fear of getting their main account banned.

 

If the alt spammer isn't happy with an idea and lacks the ability to render that idea flawed through the use of intelligent conversation they can simply create an alt account on a different IP or through a Proxy and start a flame war or just pump out vicious jabs all day. Point being, If one decideds to be a troll without a face... its easy as that.

 

Needless to say, but we know its not good.

 

I dont have a perfect solution, but I do have a suggestion.

 

My suggestion is that forum posting becomes an unlock after say mastery rank 2? Granted I am just throwing out a number here. It could be after 50 kills for all I care.

 

The point is making a free to play account should be free, and making as many of them as you want should also be free. But posting on the forums with those free to play accounts can produce exploits.

 

By adopting a system for the public to ACTUALLY PLAY the game before posting may actually make sense. Of course the areas of the forums used for support...sure I can see that being OPEN to all on the initial start up.

 

But what if you had to play Warframe for a couple hours...or a day to obtain a mastery rank or two before you could start asking for clan invites, or posting suggestions for fixes, or arguing that an idea sucks.

 

This would probably put a very quick stop to the creation of alt accounts just to troll the forums, inflate opinions, bump threads and attempt to produce delusions of grandeur amonst the public.

 

If anyone has a better idea please feel free to post it below!

Edited June 20, 2013 by 2ply

[noveltyhero]

Wow. Do people actually do this? Seriously? Talk about insecurity O.o


Unrelated:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5kLwLfufLQ
Sorry for awful quality.

[11.11.11]

Hmm...this is a common problem with a lot of FTP titles, and their corresponding forums. Of course Warframe has the added element of requiring clan membership for specific content (weapons). 

 

To be honest I'm yet to run across any multi-account spammage yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. Your solution, although not ideal, does seem a sensible way to go about combating this inevitable threat. We've already seen that DE is capable of linking forum accounts to in-game code, so there shouldn't  be a technical limitation to implementing this idea..

[Yorinar]

Regarding point 2: I wonder if anything has actually been implemented that was boosted by an artificial bandwagon effect. I agree the exploit exists, but that requires DE actually falling for it.

[2ply]

Regarding point 2: I wonder if anything has actually been implemented that was boosted by an artificial bandwagon effect. I agree the exploit exists, but that requires DE actually falling for it.

 

Although very possible, I have doubts that DE investigates all the replies to a topic to check for a connection. But the bandwagon effect can be started by a group of 20 FTP account alts...the bandwagon is set and then 50 more legit accounts fall into the wagon and push it through to implementation.

[Niryco]

Regarding point 2: I wonder if anything has actually been implemented that was boosted by an artificial bandwagon effect. I agree the exploit exists, but that requires DE actually falling for it.

I am guessing it is not for DE to fall for it, but for the general public to and eventually have the thread fall back into the pile of other post.

 

For all we know

(just as an example don't treat it seriously as it is very sensitive)

[example, caution, please treat this with a whole bag of salt. you have been warned!]

Case 1 negative: So masters and grand masters who dislike others who try to discuss ideas on the forums when there is already a design council, thus they can try to argue down all the ideas to get players to pay just to contribute meaningfully to keep it both neat and organize and have ideas which are meaningful only originate from the council

 

Case 2 positive: get many alt players to push for say ideas to be say introduce a new weapon with many agreeing and +1 each time. Eventually getting the idea through by self forcing and bandwagon effect. One unreliable thing about community.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Jacate

[Cleesus]

Hopefully they fix the problem eventually

[2ply]

 

To be honest I'm yet to run across any multi-account spammage yet, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. Your solution, although not ideal, does seem a sensible way to go about combating this inevitable threat. We've already seen that DE is capable of linking forum accounts to in-game code, so there shouldn't  be a technical limitation to implementing this idea..

 

Well I will admit I lurk like a creature from the black lagoon, I investigate things.

 

I have noticed that many replies and comments (mostly the short and sweet variety) are like the 1st posts from that player who has no mastery rank and then on further investigation I find that the account making that post was created 10 minutes prior.

 

As for the implimenation of "unlocking" forum posting rights I too thought to myself "hey my mastery rank is intigrated on my forum avatar they track that!" So i figure if they can track my mastery rank then why not have a filter block setup so that those with a master rank 2 and up be able to post. This would serve as an extra hurdle for exploiters to work through if they chose to use these tactics.

 

But this would also eliminate the instant flame ability, so posters would not be able to instantly create an account to abuse someone or bump a thread they would have to put in hours if not a day or so to be granted access. I can see lots of complaints from the prospect but I also see it as viable.

[Niryco]

Well I will admit I lurk like a creature from the black lagoon, I investigate things.

 

I have noticed that many replies and comments (mostly the short and sweet variety) are like the 1st posts from that player who has no mastery rank and then on further investigation I find that the account making that post was created 10 minutes prior.

 

As for the implimenation of "unlocking" forum posting rights I too thought to myself "hey my mastery rank is intigrated on my forum avatar they track that!" So i figure if they can track my mastery rank then why not have a filter block setup so that those with a master rank 2 and up be able to post. This would serve as an extra hurdle for exploiters to work through if they chose to use these tactics.

 

But this would also eliminate the instant flame ability, so posters would not be able to instantly create an account to abuse someone or bump a thread they would have to put in hours if not a day or so to be granted access. I can see lots of complaints from the prospect but I also see it as viable.

The only problem is so many ideas hardly ever receive attention i am not a alter but so many of my ideas just fall flat without any proper discussion with me having to bump it up like 3 to 5 times and eventually be reminded that the thread will be locked after a further bump.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Jacate

[2ply]

The only problem is so many ideas hardly ever receive attention i am not a alter but so many of my ideas just fall flat without any proper discussion with me having to bump it up like 3 to 5 times and eventually be reminded that the thread will be locked after a further bump.

 

I understand what you mean.

 

But you have to take into account where you post, what you post and how you post it. I'm not trying to say you don't know how to grasp attention in a title, or that you are unable to make compelling content.

 

What I mean is that these factors will play a role in how quickly your thread gets buried. On a hot forum like general gameplay feedback you are bound to get buried unless your title has something that invokes emotion or curiousity in the crowd. If its a generic rehash of similar complaints it will most likely be crushed.

 

Also please take in mind that this ALT bumping problem could have a lot to do with your thread getting buried so quickly...

 

some of these ALT-bumpers have had their alts for several months now and use them like a pack of talking heads to push forward their posts.

 

I would suggest you not become discouraged by your post becoming buried in minutes...just use strategic bumping times, say bump it 3 times a day at different times to catch a wider array of forum watchers.

 

Or just offer free candy, that always works for me.

Edited June 20, 2013 by 2ply

[Niryco]

I understand what you mean.

 

But you have to take into account where you post, what you post and how you post it. I'm not trying to say you don't know how to grasp attention in a title, or that you are unable to make compelling content.

 

What I mean is that these factors will play a role in how quickly your thread gets buried. On a hot forum like general gameplay feedback you are bound to get buried unless your title has something that invokes emotion or curiousity in the crowd. If its a generic rehash of similar complaints it will most likely be crushed.

 

Also please take in mind that this ALT bumping problem could have a lot to do with your thread getting buried so quickly...

 

some of these ALT-bumpers have had their alts for several months now and use them like a pack of talking heads to push forward their posts.

 

I would suggest you not become discouraged by your post becoming buried in minutes...just use strategic bumping times, say bump it 3 times a day at different times to catch a wider array of forum watchers.

 

Or just offer free candy, that always works for me.

Did about 5 bumps in a span of 2 days, reminded that thread would be closed. Stopped bumping, comments stopped coming and thread effectively died.

 

You can search most of my topics, most which i had to bump. The most recent 2 had comments and are most successful thus far. The rest.... i can't even comment anymore.

[2ply]

Did about 5 bumps in a span of 2 days, reminded that thread would be closed. Stopped bumping, comments stopped coming and thread effectively died.

 

You can search most of my topics, most which i had to bump. The most recent 2 had comments and are most successful thus far. The rest.... i can't even comment anymore.

 

This is the nature of public forums.

 

If you have any suggestions on the OP that would be helpful, otherwise this is becoming a conversation about the difficulty one has to keep a post popular, not to sound disrespectful of your dilemma.

 

Do you have any suggestions on ways to improve the ALT account issue?

[[DE]Zwak]

We're already looking into this issue. Hopefully we'll have a fix soon!

[2ply]

We're already looking into this issue. Hopefully we'll have a fix soon!

 

Thats great news, thank you for the follow up!