Puncture And What It Should Do

[Excitonex]

Question: does the ".6m puncture" mean it will puncture back .6 meters from where it originally impacts and see if it makes it through the object, and then go on until it hits something?  Or does it just mean "do I hit something else after .6m from hitting something." 

I think it means it will penetrate objects until it hits something thicker than 0.6m.

[Darkwave1098]

Am I the only one that uses this mod on the Braton and the Latron Prime? ( LP due to the - polarity :) )

It's actually useful but definitly needs a buff, does not pierce enough.

[SquattingBear]

Well, sadly puncture is actually working exactly how it is written in game. I launched a ticket to support a while ago regarding the puncture and the reply was" The puncture mod is based off of distance (.1 is 1 meter) So there are some cases where a thin door could be thinner than a large meaty part of the MOA leg. It is all relative to how thick the object is."  

 

 

Now the problem isnt the distance with the mod, its the actual in game measurements. The square pop up blocks in the void (not the semi circle ones) are about 4 meters in-game length. Easy way to test this for yourself is to simply put your own marker "g" key for most of us, at the point you think is 5 meters. Read the numbers that appear and adjust it till your at 5 meters.

Im sure you all would be quite surprised as to realise how short 5 meters is.

Edited June 21, 2013 by SquattingBear

[lstalri]

I think it means it will penetrate objects until it hits something thicker than 0.6m.

Looks like I have some testing to do...

 

EDIT: w8... did that ticket just say that .1 meters from the tooltip = 1 meter?...

Edited June 21, 2013 by lstalri

[SquattingBear]

Looks like I have some testing to do...

 

EDIT: w8... did that ticket just say that .1 meters from the tooltip = 1 meter?...

Thats the Exact response from the ticket i submited to the help desk, and that the 0.1 on the mod = 1 meter. Or at least thats what the devs told me in my response...

[SyfonMK]

Looks like most enemies are thicker than 6m then :)

[Aggh]

Kunai have innate puncture. :D Sometimes it seems like my Dread arrows do too (killing multiple enemies in a row, but the body isn't flying back to hit the guy behind him as is supposed to be the reason for it)

Kunai and bows having it =/= all weapons having it.  Varying base puncture stats on all weapons would make for better flavor.  Ex the gorgon should be able to pierce light cover without a mod and mods should give it the ability to pierce enemies and heavy cover whereas the lato should have low base puncture and at best be able to pierce light cover etc. etc.

[Lady_Khaos]

Kunai and bows having it =/= all weapons having it.  Varying base puncture stats on all weapons would make for better flavor.  Ex the gorgon should be able to pierce light cover without a mod and mods should give it the ability to pierce enemies and heavy cover whereas the lato should have low base puncture and at best be able to pierce light cover etc. etc.

 

I know I was simply giving an example of things already having it

[Excitonex]

Well, sadly puncture is actually working exactly how it is written in game. I launched a ticket to support a while ago regarding the puncture and the reply was" The puncture mod is based off of distance (.1 is 1 meter) So there are some cases where a thin door could be thinner than a large meaty part of the MOA leg. It is all relative to how thick the object is."  

 

 

Now the problem isnt the distance with the mod, its the actual in game measurements. The square pop up blocks in the void (not the semi circle ones) are about 4 meters in-game length. Easy way to test this for yourself is to simply put your own marker "g" key for most of us, at the point you think is 5 meters. Read the numbers that appear and adjust it till your at 5 meters.

Im sure you all would be quite surprised as to realise how short 5 meters is.

Those blocks are only 2m. I measured them using 2 player's WP and looking at the difference. Though I was surprised at how short a meter is in this game. Our frames are 3-4m tall I think.

[SquattingBear]

Those blocks are only 2m. I measured them using 2 player's WP and looking at the difference. Though I was surprised at how short a meter is in this game. Our frames are 3-4m tall I think.

Well, at least people reading this are now going to realise that a meter in game is really short. so the puncture mods, although being 6 max for rifles. are only about a warframe and a half in length. So, maybe its the ingame distances that need to be revised. not the actual puncture distance itself.

[Mad5cout]

None of the weapons mentioned have puncture.  They have the ability to pin things which is completely different.  You can hurl 50 kunai, depair, or arrows into a lancer shield.  Good luck with that one.

[Excitonex]

Well, at least people reading this are now going to realise that a meter in game is really short. so the puncture mods, although being 6 max for rifles. are only about a warframe and a half in length. So, maybe its the ingame distances that need to be revised. not the actual puncture distance itself.

I think that reply from support was either old or incorrect. Puncture definitely does not puncture 6m even on the rifle.

[W4RM4CHIN3]

+1

[WynneD]

I think puncture should be 1.5 for rifles, 2.0 for pistols 2.5 for shotguns, with sniper weapons getting their own 3 meter mod (can be stacked with the regular rifle version if you have the capacity for both and want to use both).

[Lady_Khaos]

I think puncture should be 1.5 for rifles, 2.0 for pistols 2.5 for shotguns, with sniper weapons getting their own 3 meter mod (can be stacked with the regular rifle version if you have the capacity for both and want to use both).

 

Why the heck would pistols and shotguns do more than a rifle??? Lower energy smaller caliber. Shotgun should barely puncture at all.

[Excitonex]

I think puncture should be 1.5 for rifles, 2.0 for pistols 2.5 for shotguns, with sniper weapons getting their own 3 meter mod (can be stacked with the regular rifle version if you have the capacity for both and want to use both).

Is there any reasoning behind this or are you just throwing out arbitrary numbers?

[WynneD]

Why the heck would pistols and shotguns do more than a rifle??? Lower energy smaller caliber. Shotgun should barely puncture at all.

Warframe shouldn't be about realism, but balance and making every mod appealing/usable. Much easier to utilize a rifle for puncture effectively over a shotgun. Hek could be very good with puncture if buffed, strun not so much, boar not at all.

[mogamu]

Puncture should be % chance, not distance.  That is its major design flaw.

[http404error]

Would probably OP as heck unless the puncture mod was kept in its current state. Puncture could probably be added as a stat to weapons and each weapon would vary.

 

Weapons with lower RoT would get more puncture and etc.

Well yes, that's what was intended by the suggestion. Which I'm a fan of.

[TGPhoenix]

Puncture should be % chance, not distance.  That is its major design flaw.

Please do not ever speak on this subject again. The game already has enough RNGs on weapons, we do not need to make even more of them RNG based. Are you kidding me? So now not only would puncture be situational at best (there isn't always an enemy behind your target, even if you can puncture the original target), but on top of that even in the situation you only want us to puncture a percentage of the shots fired? That is just straight up foolish. I agree that pistol and shotgun puncture mods at the very least need a boost to be on par with the rifle puncture mod, though even that mod needs a small buff to distance punctured in my opinion.

 

Also, to those earlier in the thread that stated that puncture shouldn't be compared to the only 2 other mods in the entire game that compete with it for energy costs because they are OP by comparison... For 15 energy, I want puncture to be just as "OP" as the multishot and increased base damage mods, otherwise it will never be worth putting on anything other than my deth cube's rifle, especially since it is so extremely situational.

[mogamu]

Please do not ever speak on this subject again. The game already has enough RNGs on weapons, we do not need to make even more of them RNG based. Are you kidding me? 

 

Are you suggesting that MULTISHOT is a bad mod because its random/chance?  

 

last I checked It is the only random weapon mod and it is the best mod next to serration and in a few cases better than serration like on the Ogris for instance.  I'm not sure you you compare this to a RNG drop table which is totally different because the chances of a certain even is much lower than a high percent of outcome like per se firing a second bullet.  Those two things are not even close to being comparable.  

Edited June 24, 2013 by mogamu

[Rooder]

In my view, puncture should be a percentage chance instead of a distance. I.E say 90% puncture rate on your auger, gives you 90% chance to puncture first enemy, then rolls again on next one, etc.

[SquattingBear]

I think that reply from support was either old or incorrect. Puncture definitely does not puncture 6m even on the rifle.

That reply was from about 3 weeks ago, so its not old at all. 6 meters is hardly anything in this game. You might assume 6 meters is alot but, after you measure it, your warframes height is approx. 3-4 meters ingame length, the mod is definately correct. The measurements are completely off in the game.  If you dont trust the post. send in your own ticket... im sre the response will be the same.

[Excitonex]

That reply was from about 3 weeks ago, so its not old at all. 6 meters is hardly anything in this game. You might assume 6 meters is alot but, after you measure it, your warframes height is approx. 3-4 meters ingame length, the mod is definately correct. The measurements are completely off in the game.  If you dont trust the post. send in your own ticket... im sre the response will be the same.

Except the mod doesn't puncture things longer than my frame is tall. I don't have to send in a ticket to check something I can see with my own eyes.

[Vaskadar]

At their starting level, they still cannot puncture the Grineer Riot Shield, and they are still not viable. Puncture mods need to have their current max value tripled in order for them to be worth anything for their prohibitive cost. 1.8 meters should be enough to get collateral kills on multiple enemies. As it stands right now, however, puncture is NOT worth the energy or the money invested in them. OR, they could be based on a multiplier.

15 mod energy max? For what? Puncturing one enemy? It should be able to punch through at least two.

First option that seems to be fairly popular is a flat value.

Rifles - 4.5 meters max

Pistols - 3.0 meters max

Shotguns - 1.5 meters max

Possible alternative (and balanced) fix I came up with below:

Puncture on a damage-based system. If the damage of a Snipetron is 115, multiplying it by the suggested formula would give it reasonable puncture. 115 x 0.030 = 3.45 meters. This would justify the prohibitive cost of the puncture mod.

Formula: damage x 0.030 = puncture rating (when maxed out)

Scaling of puncture mods: 0.005/0.010/0.015/0.020/0.025/0.030 or something along those lines as far as a multiplier goes.

That way, shotguns don't get the ridiculous puncture they had before, and sniper weapons and other high damage single-shot weapons get the puncture they need. The maximum puncture a HEK pellet could achieve (when equipped with max damage/max puncture) would be 1.083

This would be the best possible fix I can come up with. Critical damage should not modify the damage, however, as that would be disgustingly broken, but it really depends on what they think of it.

Source: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/30200-puncture-mods-are-still-not-worth-it/