Forma Vs. Experiance

[Aero-929]

I have played through a wide variety of weapons, tweaking and playing with build options. With the introduction of Forma I was excited to re-play my favorite weapons. I was quite disappointed to see that re-leveling a weapon (grinding) to get it back to a more epic 30, I was gaining no mastery experience. I understand that there are some definite Con's to offering experience for this method.

 My solution to this problem would be half experience for leveling a Forma weapon (I.E. 50 xp per level instead of 100). That way it is still more beneficial to level new weapons, but you still get something out of playing with your old favorites.

 

Thoughts?...

[CrownFire]

Perhaps a scaling experience gain? Starting at 75 with 1 forma 50 on the 2nd 25 on the third and 10 on the 4th?

[lostinrehab]

No.  

 

 

This is from somone with 9 weapons forma'd 4 times over and 5 frames forma'd at least 3 times. I should probably be mastery 15 from all the lvling but releveling you're weapons should not gain mastery.

 

I beleive the intent was to get people to try out different weapons to get a feel for everything not so you could get you're fav and never use anything else.

[Aero-929]

No.  

 

 

This is from somone with 9 weapons forma'd 4 times over and 5 frames forma'd at least 3 times. I should probably be mastery 15 from all the lvling but releveling you're weapons should not gain mastery.

 

I beleive the intent was to get people to try out different weapons to get a feel for everything not so you could get you're fav and never use anything else.

This is why it should be at a lesser value. You have had your chance to find your favorites, but I think you should get a little something extra for all the additional work you put into those 9 weapons and 5 frames. Basically at that point you have mastered your weapons and frames...but have received no additional reward. (Other than utter destruction I guess.)

 Hats off to your hard work at grinding btw.

[Tekkaman-Blade]

There are a lot of weapons I don't like in this game and I would really rather not spend time using a weapon I find boring.

 

Would prefer to just forma and use the 5-6 weapons I like.

[Lumireaver]

I'd be alright with Forma allowing players to acquire more mastery points... if using Forma subtracted thirty levels worth of mastery.

[Westmin]

I'd be alright with Forma allowing players to acquire more mastery points... if using Forma subtracted thirty levels worth of mastery.

Nice :)

To OP - No. This has been brought up many times before and it's always the same. You make mastery points easier to get, and the tiered weapons become just that much easier to get, and then people cry for more things to do with higher mastery levels, and then higher tiered weapons are added and people who are stuck on one thing complain that it's too hard to get the end-game things. RINSE REPEAT

Mastery level 10 here, one of three people in my clan that can use weapons with mastery 7 requirements.

[Xoxile]

No. If you understood why the current system does not allow you to gain mastery from re-leveling polarized weapons, or frames then you wouldn't need to come up with a solution.

The idea behind mastery rank is to show that you are experienced with many types of weapons. Not just a few.

[Aero-929]

To add to my point, Mastery level is a way to represent how familiar you are and how well you can utilize the things offered in this universe. Why than is my mastery the same over the Volt the same as my mastery over the Ember, which I have Forma'd twice? 

I would think that the Mastery should increase as you have put forth the extra effort to maximize the potential..?

[Aero-929]

No. If you understood why the current system does not allow you to gain mastery from re-leveling polarized weapons, or frames then you wouldn't need to come up with a solution.

The idea behind mastery rank is to show that you are experienced with many types of weapons. Not just a few.

I don't disagree with making it easier to get Mastery, because I do agree with the point you are making. However like I stated in my last point, there should be a reflection of that extra effort, which is why I think I decreased value in mastery points for a weapon that is being re-leveled through Forma should offer something.

 That said, I can see the delicacy of finding a good balance point.  

[Xoxile]

To add to my point, Mastery level is a way to represent how familiar you are and how well you can utilize the things offered in this universe. Why than is my mastery the same over the Volt the same as my mastery over the Ember, which I have Forma'd twice? 

I would think that the Mastery should increase as you have put forth the extra effort to maximize the potential..?

Because a turkey sandwich one one slice of turkey is just as much as a turkey sandwich with two slices of turkey.

[Aero-929]

Because a turkey sandwich one one slice of turkey is just as much as a turkey sandwich with two slices of turkey.

Negative, a turkey sandwich with two slices of turkey is likely to cause you to take a nap faster, and taste much better.

[Xoxile]

Negative, a turkey sandwich with two slices of turkey is likely to cause you to take a nap faster, and taste much better.

Yes, but you are not better at making turkey sandwiches just because you put an extra slice of turkey in it. You have not demonstrated master craftsmanship in your sandwiches.

[Aero-929]

Yes, but you are not better at making turkey sandwiches just because you put an extra slice of turkey in it. You have not demonstrated master craftsmanship in your sandwiches.

Well played.

But If I made one turkey sandwich, it might be okay, but as I continue to make turkey sandwiches I get better, they taste better. I start to understand the amount and value of adding condiment's lettuce and tomatoes. A Forma is like adding ingredients to make the end product better. Making my sandwich better and adding to the craftsmanship of my sandwich.

[NitroMidgets]

You mean I am not a Sandwich Artisan if I do so? Damn, there goes that other meaningless title I wanted to achieve. Fine, it is to the loss of my squad though as now I won't be making snacks for the ride in on our missions.

[Xoxile]

Well played.

But If I made one turkey sandwich, it might be okay, but as I continue to make turkey sandwiches I get better, they taste better. I start to understand the amount and value of adding condiment's lettuce and tomatoes. A Forma is like adding ingredients to make the end product better. Making my sandwich better and adding to the craftsmanship of my sandwich.

Yes you can get really good at making turkey sandwiches, but you aren't going to be renowned as a master chef if all you ever make is really good turkey sandwiches. At most you will be a guy that makes really good turkey sandwiches.

[Aero-929]

Yes you can get really good at making turkey sandwiches, but you aren't going to be renowned as a master chef if all you ever make is really good turkey sandwiches. At most you will be a guy that makes really good turkey sandwiches.

...even so, you can only get so far even with adding forma to weapons, before you have to move on anyway. Granted I am only Mastery 8, but playing through all of the weapons, there are just some that make it painful to level. I just think it would be nice to get a little more out of the weapons People like. It would help endure leveling things that are less FUN to play with. By decreasing the amount of mastery you get out of leveling them, it is still better to play with new weapons, and you still get a small incentive to continue playing with the weapons you like.

I just think with a decreased value you could put a lot more value on the things you enjoy playing with to curb the 'unpleasantries' of leveling those that are less so.

[Xoxile]

...even so, you can only get so far even with adding forma to weapons, before you have to move on anyway. Granted I am only Mastery 8, but playing through all of the weapons, there are just some that make it painful to level. I just think it would be nice to get a little more out of the weapons People like. It would help endure leveling things that are less FUN to play with. By decreasing the amount of mastery you get out of leveling them, it is still better to play with new weapons, and you still get a small incentive to continue playing with the weapons you like.

I just think with a decreased value you could put a lot more value on the things you enjoy playing with to curb the 'unpleasantries' of leveling those that are less so.

Well then let me ask you this. If you are happy with the weapons you are currently using what use do you have for mastery rank that you will get more enjoyment out of the game from.

[Aero-929]

Well then let me ask you this. If you are happy with the weapons you are currently using what use do you have for mastery rank that you will get more enjoyment out of the game from.

Yet again you make a very valid point. Yes the enjoyment of the weapon shouldn't go down just because I am not moving ahead with a "ranking" system. However, It can feel like blowing air into a flat tire, as much fun as they are, by sitting on a weapon that gives me no additional mastery...I'm not further progressing as a Teno.

But...if I go back to an unranked weapon, during the interim of building it back up, compensation with progression would be nice. It takes time to get them back to an epic killing system. During that time you are learning a new way to use a weapon or Frame you have already Mastered.

Like any other sport, skiing for instance, after you do a double black diamond run...you are considered an expert, but you can still move to back country, cliffs or helicopter jumps to add to your skill. Since you are already an expert, it is much more difficult to add expertise. This would be shown by a decrease in the points per level.

This also shows versatility and use in the things you have mastered.

The only down side, is it would allow for people to utilize one weapon/frame and get much further ahead than those of us that have had to work our way through an arsenal of Frames and Weapons to get to the level we are currently at. That said it would be open to everyone, so we can all utilize this feature...plus you would still gain more from leveling a new system than re-leveling one you have Forma'd. 

[Xoxile]

/vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

And the purpose of you advancing in mastery rank would be what? To be on par with the people who rank up using many weapons? Well you wouldn't be because if it was possible to gain mastery rank from re-leveling polarized weapons the people who have leveled all the weapons, and frames to 30 will now proceed to re-level all their gear several times over, and their mastery rank will increase exponentially (Thanks Lotus). I'm willing to bet when you see that happen you are going to ask for another way to gain mastery rank that YOU want to do so you can avoid doing things you don't want to do. What is it about mastery rank that you need so desperately?

Edited June 21, 2013 by Xoxile

[Aero-929]

And the purpose of you advancing in mastery rank would be what? To be on par with the people who rank up using many weapons? Well you wouldn't be because if it was possible to gain mastery rank from re-leveling polarized weapons the people who have leveled all the weapons, and frames to 30 will now proceed to re-level all their gear several times over, and their mastery rank will increase exponentially (Thanks Lotus). I'm willing to bet when you see that happen you are going to ask for another way to gain mastery rank that YOU want to do so you can avoid doing things you don't want to do. What is it about mastery rank that you need so desperately?

Interesting shift of thought. No, I'm not looking to "Catch up." Yes other would be able to achieve the same bench makes with this matter of thinking, however, the application is just to gain some value out of re-leveling weapons with Forma. There is no desperation, just need for direction, when I am faced with leveling a new weapon or re-leveling a Forma weapon, I pick the new weapon so as to 1) get a feel for the weapons so I can discuss them 2) being a long time gamer gives me a need to be a completionist, so I am forced in my nature to put things I would prefer to do on the back burner.

Does that make sense?

[Xoxile]

Interesting shift of thought. No, I'm not looking to "Catch up." Yes other would be able to achieve the same bench makes with this matter of thinking, however, the application is just to gain some value out of re-leveling weapons with Forma. There is no desperation, just need for direction, when I am faced with leveling a new weapon or re-leveling a Forma weapon, I pick the new weapon so as to 1) get a feel for the weapons so I can discuss them 2) being a long time gamer gives me a need to be a completionist, so I am forced in my nature to put things I would prefer to do on the back burner.

Does that make sense?

1) Is the point to mastery rank.

2) Well being a completionist you would know what it takes to complete something. Giving extra mastery rank for re-leveling the same gear would push that goal back farther.

So you are saying an extra polarity slot is not gaining value? Do you think people just polarize just for the grinding levels?

[direcyphre]

The benefit of Forma and releveling a weapon is a polarity slot. Nothing  is necessary beyond that.

 

By the time you are ready to do so, you can easily take on higher level missions and re-level your weapons and frames quite easily.

[Aero-929]

Xoxile, I have yet to disagree with a post or point you have made (except for thinking me desperately trying for mastery levels, lol).

Yes, those are the points I am making, and yes an additional polarity makes up for itself for end game. The points you are making are very valid and justify why Forma does not currently give you additional Mastery.

The point I am trying to make, is that be gaining some (albeit a decreased value) mastery points during that transition, would add an element of more reward for doing it. While I am not upset over it not doing so now, I think it would be a nice addition to see. Eventually the production of new things to use will slow, this application would help bridge the gap during a period lacking in new items to level.

Forma is also not the most available resource. So adding to it's application when dropped, only adds the value Forma would have to a player.

[LasersGoPewPew]

frankly it would make mastery rank too fast if you could just forma your Hek 8x over and make it a godlike killing machine, as Hek doesn't even need a polarity to be a beast, the polarity slot is a nice perk but it would also be nice if you could gain a small amount of affinity, like 100 affinity for the rank every time you forma a weapon, not every rank but for every time you fully relevel it. that way people won't gain 20 mastery levels from forma-ing their equipment/frames they like 5x over but instead they would only gain about 3000 mastery experience.(if it were 100 mastery experience per full releveling)