BLADESTORM: Does it really NEED to Change?

[BlackCoMerc]

19 minutes ago, MindHoney said:

The problem with fixing the foundation is what do you do with it? Ya changing the sand for stone is obvious, but what do you do limit engery with out damping enjoyment?

Valid question.

I recommend a Nightmare Mode on every node, with shields, but also with limited energy, no orbs as loot, and other, optional modifiers.

Playing this mode could offer bonus credits and XP. 

It's still not a fix, but it buys you tons of time. You could even have Relics, Forma BP, etc as possible additional Nightmare mode rewards.

[Defion]

Can someone for the love of dear my god explain to me what someone is benefiting from a nerfed (yes nerfed cause thats what will happen to Ash) frame in your squad? Why people want to nerf anything in a freaking CO-OP game? The way I see it is if you have a Bladestorm spamming Ash in your squad killing things how does that freaking effect your game play experiance? Does it get less cause 1 player gets more kills and therefor more affinity? You just cant sit idle by when someone is doing your job and you benifit from it?

How about Trinity? I hate HATE!!! what they did with trinity, they made her into a @(*()$ dog on leash... running after teammates to heal them? wtf i got kubrows to act as pets I dont want my freaking support frame to be 1. But even I just cant borter anymore to run to my allmost dead teammate to heal him they made trinity a selffish frame and so I'll shall use her, F*** the team right? All the people saying something is OP and needs to toned down is simpley cause at the end of their mission they see dmg dealt in % and total kills. Most the time thats a Ash spamming Bladestorm but after the rework he will turn out like a rhino wearing a plastic condom and calls it iron skin....

DE should change the facts at the mission result show how much 1 healed another above total kills. After 3 years im so sick and tired of people shouting NERF NERF NERF!!! For something that just helps them reach the same goal in the end. Hence it being CO-freaking-OP. But alas Warframe should ditch to co-op part cause everyone want most kills and those that get most kills are OP as S#&$ right?!?!

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[Eldritchsqueaker]

1 minute ago, Defion said:

Can someone for the love of dear my god explain to me what someone is benefiting from a nerfed (yes nerfed cause thats what will happen to Ash) frame in your squad? Why people want to nerf anything in a freaking CO-OP game? The way I see it is if you have a Bladestorm spamming Ash in your squad killing things how does that freaking effect your game play experiance? Does it get less cause 1 player gets more kills and therefor more affinity? You just cant sit idle by when someone is doing your job and you benifit from it?

How about Trinity? I hate HATE!!! what they did with trinity, they made her into a @(*()$ dog on leash... running after teammates to heal them? wtf i got kubrows to act as pets I dont want my freaking support frame to be 1. But even I just cant borter anymore to run to my allmost dead teammate to heal him they made trinity a selffish frame and so I'll shall use her F*** the team right? All the people saying something is OP and needs to toned down is simpley cause at the end of their mission they see dmg dealt in % and total kills. Most the time thats a Ash spamming Bladestorm but after the rework he will turn out like a rhino wearing a plastic condom and calls it iron skin....

DE should change the facts at the mission result show how much 1 healed another above total kills. After 3 years im so sick and tired of people shouting NERF NERF NERF!!! For something that just helps them reahc the same goal in the end hence it being CO-freaking-OP. But alas Warframe should ditch to co-op part cause everyone want most kills and those that get most kills are OP as S#&$ right?!?!

It's in part because this is a co-op frame that people want Bladestorm to be changed, Ash right now is a very selfish frame, he doesn't work well in groups. He teamkills on radiation sorties, marks enemies as unkillable until he can do his weaboo teleport stabby shenanigans on them. He doesn't add anything to a group /but/ killing things, which he does in a selfish manner that in many mission types isn't that helpful in the long run. Actually read the thread dude.

[Defion]

1 minute ago, Eldritchkitty said:

It's in part because this is a co-op frame that people want Bladestorm to be changed, Ash right now is a very selfish frame, he doesn't work well in groups. He teamkills on radiation sorties, marks enemies as unkillable until he can do his weaboo teleport stabby shenanigans on them. He doesn't add anything to a group /but/ killing things, which he does in a selfish manner that in many mission types isn't that helpful in the long run. Actually read the thread dude.

 

Your saying Ash is selffish? Thats up to the player and how he used Ash abilitys, its not Ash and the abilitys themself...

Let me paint a situation for you.

A team of 4, Banshee, Ash, Atlas, Oberon. They go in and do a 1hour survival at lets say apollo in mercury.

At lvl 99 infested Banshee goes to bleed-out, Atlast puts walls around the wounded, Oberon cast heals, Ash kills everything trying to get close. Thats a selffish frame and ability?

Same situation but this time Ash stays away and let the rest of the team die as he could care less, same goes for the oberon and Atlas.

Just because someone uses a ability to go only for most kills and highest dmg doesnt mean that frame has to change or its aiblitys, but the attitude of the person using them in such ways. DE is starting to make frames selffish and thus people play as one. But I wonder why is noone complaining in a squad when Ash does use his abilitys to benefit the team? And actualy read the thread? Yea im going to another 100 pages of people saying they want things nerfed. Bin there, Done that.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Just now, Defion said:

 

Your saying Ash is selffish? Thats up to the player and how he used Ash abilitys, its not Ash and the abilitys themself...

His abilities and large amounts about how the frame functions isn't very team based.

[Defion]

10 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

His abilities and large amounts about how the frame functions isn't very team based.

Smoke augment surely is no benefit to a team....

Trinity self heals are a better team based ability now then? Right....

How about rhino Condom skin? Or Oberon poor team heals? OR Valkyr cause everyone uses Warcry to help buff their teammates right?

I currently run a teleport build on my Ash with the finisher augment, and I hate it purely cause 9/10 times it just teleports without doing any  kind of finisher...

But good job to those shouting NERF!!! At everything in game, and good job DE for actualy lissening to those people (Did everyone forget about the guy asking energy and heal pads to get nerfed cause they were OP to?)

As Lotus would say to those shouting NERF NERF NERF!!! "MISSION COMPLETED, YOU RUINED WARFRAME!" :)

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[Weltraumfred]

1 hour ago, Defion said:

Can someone for the love of dear my god explain to me what someone is benefiting from a nerfed (yes nerfed cause thats what will happen to Ash) frame in your squad? Why people want to nerf anything in a freaking CO-OP game? The way I see it is if you have a Bladestorm spamming Ash in your squad killing things how does that freaking effect your game play experiance?

As has been stated several times in this thread, he gives tough enemies, that he can't immediatly dispose of, frickin invulnerability frames. And this can F*** up your gameplay experience.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Weltraumfred

[Defion]

4 minutes ago, Weltraumfred said:

As has been stated several times in this thread, he gives tough enemies, that he can't immediatly dispose of, frickin invulnerability frames. And this can F*** up your gameplay experience.

Actualy if you see a red marked enemy you can kill it, you know that right? Happens to me all the time and it does shorten the Blade storm and makes you waste energy on casting. Its how you use them not how they made him to be. As someone in a movie once said, "With great power comes blablabla and people shouting NERF on the streets".

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[Weltraumfred]

Not if Ash is right on top of the enemy. Trust me, it happened to me. Often enough, in fact, that I often quit the squad if Ash shows up. 

[Defion]

5 minutes ago, Weltraumfred said:

Not if Ash is right on top of the enemy. Trust me, it happened to me. Often enough, in fact, that I often quit the squad if Ash shows up. 

Why would you kill an enemy thats allready being killed? Makes lots of sence, maybe focus on another enemy? I think theres plenty in 1 mission unless its exterminate.

If a Ash pops in your squad and spams blade storm near you just for the shake of casting it near you thats up to the player using Ash not Ash or his abilitys and how they work, that goes for any frame. And why dont you simpley ask the Ash to maybe I dont know.... stop? Your keyboard lacking keys to type that? Maybe the Ash is ignoring you asked, again thats just the user being a #$&(% not the frame or its abilitys.

Once Ash nerf... oops.... rework is done Ill use Ash for killing things others were killing to simpley cause well I use Ash anerfed Ash in my book is 1 that ruinens the fun for everyone in the squad, just like when im using trinity and i keep all those yummie heals for myself cause I dont want to chase my teammates around. And I rather die then healing teammates now. (yes thats me being a $&*^ as trinity cause thats how her nerf makes me want to play her).

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[_JustSomeone_]

26 minutes ago, Defion said:

 You just cant sit idle by when someone is doing your job and you benifit from it?

 

^^^ This is the main problem

Most of the gamers want to kill stuff ... but NO.. ash just selects 1 target and begings the kill fest .. killing random mobs and mostly the one you were going to shoot.. .I dont understand the mentallity of people that "play" games been idle. If i want to be idle while looking how mobs are been killed i put a youtube video thats it ;)

[Defion]

17 minutes ago, x_xUnknownx_x said:

^^^ This is the main problem

Most of the gamers want to kill stuff ... but NO.. ash just selects 1 target and begings the kill fest .. killing random mobs and mostly the one you were going to shoot.. .I dont understand the mentallity of people that "play" games been idle. If i want to be idle while looking how mobs are been killed i put a youtube video thats it ;)

God forbid that the map is actualy big enough for you to move where the Ash isnt at? OOH Defence mission the problem right? Cause then you have a small area to protect and when Ash is casting Blade storm you can just run around collect loot right? Or maybe abort mission, you barely lose anything that cant be gained with a new squad just as fast right? Thats not want you want you want kills kills kills shout nerf nerf nerf and you just couldnt type to ask if the ash user wants to stop or be more considering of his teammates? Makes sence.... There is more to the game then just getting most kills everytime, lucky Ive met some new players that understood that concept and when I use Ash I simply ask if its allright to spam the ability or I simpley run around where my teammates arent near. Mostly I just run away from my team to spam the ability cause I do like the animation of it and I do like the feeling of actualy being a warframe that should be feared by those tubby grineer and those annoying infested. But you go ahead shout nerf at everything, I even heard people got their NERF shouts ready for the new frame  so theres that.....

PS> I rather see some "Lets bloody fix this map missing texture, or objects appearing through walls, or why is my frame holding melee when im using my gun" shouts. That would be something....

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Eldritchkitty said:

It's in part because this is a co-op frame that people want Bladestorm to be changed, Ash right now is a very selfish frame, he doesn't work well in groups. He teamkills on radiation sorties, marks enemies as unkillable until he can do his weaboo teleport stabby shenanigans on them. He doesn't add anything to a group /but/ killing things, which he does in a selfish manner that in many mission types isn't that helpful in the long run. Actually read the thread dude.

Selfish frames are fine. Not every frame needs to have team support.

Killing teammates due to a proc is just something the game needs to do away with completely.

And making enemies invulnerable shouldn't be a part of the ability.

That said: using the ability isn't very fun or engaging. Neither would summoning clones to kill for you help this. The rework needs to be interactive, otherwise, leave it alone except the above-mentioned problem aspects.

[Defion]

3 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Selfish frames are fine. Not every frame needs to have team support.

Killing teammates due to a proc is just something the game needs to do away with completely.

And making enemies invulnerable shouldn't be a part of the ability.

That said: using the ability isn't very fun or engaging. Neither would summoning clones to kill for you help this. The rework needs to be interactive, otherwise, leave it alone except the above-mentioned problem aspects.

I find casting Blade storm fun, why are you trying to speak for me by saying it isnt? (I hope your getting where Im aiming this at and not you personaly...)

In your eyes lets make warframe the next CoD and call it, "Call of duty; where duty fails use warframes."

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[Omnipower]

33 minutes ago, Defion said:

God forbid that the map is actualy big enough for you to move where the Ash isnt at? OOH Defence mission the problem right? Cause then you have a small area to protect and when Ash is casting Blade storm you can just run around collect loot right? Or maybe abort mission, you barely lose anything that cant be gained with a new squad just as fast right? Thats not want you want you want kills kills kills shout nerf nerf nerf and you just couldnt type to ask if the ash user wants to stop or be more considering of his teammates? Makes sence.... There is more to the game then just getting most kills everytime, lucky Ive met some new players that understood that concept and when I use Ash I simply ask if its allright to spam the ability or I simpley run around where my teammates arent near. Mostly I just run away from my team to spam the ability cause I do like the animation of it and I do like the feeling of actualy being a warframe that should be feared by those tubby grineer and those annoying infested. But you go ahead shout nerf at everything, I even heard people got their NERF shouts ready for the new frame  so theres that.....

PS> I rather see some "Lets bloody fix this map missing texture, or objects appearing through walls, or why is my frame holding melee when im using my gun" shouts. That would be something....

Yeah you are right there are plenty of problems that needs fixing more so then a good chunk of frames and their abilities but at this very moment plenty of players who use Ash(i did not say all) spam 4 regardless of what you say and yeah i could quit and start a new game but why should my fun be ruined cause someone else spams an ability that makes my enemies invulnerable thus making the mission somewhat sufferable. Anyways my point is his 4 needs to do away with its invulnerability im pretty sure everyone else can care less if it didnt have that one annoying fact.

[Defion]

Just now, Omnipower said:

Yeah you are right there are plenty of problems that needs fixing more so then a good chunk of frames and their abilities but at this very moment plenty of players who use Ash(i did not say all) spam 4 regardless of what you say and yeah i could quit and start a new game but why should my fun be ruined cause someone else spams an ability that makes my enemies invulnerable thus making the mission somewhat sufferable. Anyways my point is his 4 needs to do away with its invulnerability im pretty sure everyone else can care less if it didnt have that one annoying fact.

Plenty of Ash users? Where? What region? I barely encounter Ash users and im on Europe...

Saying Ash 4th need a nerf just cause you dont like how some people or most use them is like saying "dog S#&$ aint S#&$ if its shaped as a cake", but reallity is its still dogS#&$ but in a cake shape. Your not forced to stick with Douchy Ash players, you can talk/chat to your other teammates and ask them to reform. Why the hell isnt anyone using the tools given to avoid things you dont like? To lazy? To happy shouting nerf? yea thats it most likely and again I congrat you nerf shouters you done more then once "good job".

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

4 minutes ago, Defion said:

I find casting Blade storm fun, why are you trying to speak for me by saying it isnt? (I hope your getting where Im aiming this at and not you personaly...)

In your eyes lets make warframe the next CoD and call it, "Call of duty; where duty fails use warframes."

Bruh. Relax. 

If you love Ash so much you'll still be able to play him. He's not going anywhere. A portion of the community has spoken and DE agreed that the direction of Ash isn't what they envisioned for the game. It's that simple.

If Bladestorm didn't cast finisher damage would it still be fun for you? 

[MindHoney]

4 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

40 minutes ago, Defion said:

God forbid that the map is actualy big enough for you to move where the Ash isnt at? OOH Defence mission the problem right? Cause then you have a small area to protect and when Ash is casting Blade storm you can just run around collect loot right? Or maybe abort mission, you barely lose anything that cant be gained with a new squad just as fast right? Thats not want you want you want kills kills kills shout nerf nerf nerf and you just couldnt type to ask if the ash user wants to stop or be more considering of his teammates? Makes sence.... There is more to the game then just getting most kills everytime, lucky Ive met some new players that understood that concept and when I use Ash I simply ask if its allright to spam the ability or I simpley run around where my teammates arent near. Mostly I just run away from my team to spam the ability cause I do like the animation of it and I do like the feeling of actualy being a warframe that should be feared by those tubby grineer and those annoying infested. But you go ahead shout nerf at everything, I even heard people got their NERF shouts ready for the new frame  so theres that.....

PS> I rather see some "Lets bloody fix this map missing texture, or objects appearing through walls, or why is my frame holding melee when im using my gun" shouts. That would be something....

 

1) whether or not he should be nurfed is a pointless argument, he's getting reworked according to the devs

2) your argument boils down to "not all ash players are like that". An argument used alot by feminists. Thou there are a only a few loud voices, the rest of you are not controling though voices. Your letting thous voices direct your image.

The image I have of ash is not from my clan mates, or friends. Thoughs people I can trust to think about how much fun I'm having. My image of ash and why I think he needs the nurf is because if random Ash's.

[BlackCoMerc]

7 minutes ago, Defion said:

I find casting Blade storm fun, why are you trying to speak for me by saying it isnt? (I hope your getting where Im aiming this at and not you personaly...)

In your eyes lets make warframe the next CoD and call it, "Call of duty; where duty fails use warframes."

I get you. I do.

It's not fun to me. Well, not to spam it. 

Honestly though, I think the game needs more focus on abilities, not less. They make it unique. Why not play that up, as opposed to nullify and nerf it into non existent status...

[Omnipower]

Just now, Defion said:

Plenty of Ash users? Where? What region? I barely encounter Ash users and im on Europe...

Saying Ash 4th need a nerf just cause you dont like how some people or most use them is like saying "dog S#&$ aint S#&$ if its shaped as a cake", but reallity is its still dogS#&$ but in a cake shape. Your not forced to stick with Douchy Ash players, you can talk/chat to your other teammates and ask them to reform. Why the hell isnt anyone using the tools given to avoid things you dont like? To lazy? To happy shouting nerf? yea thats it most likely and again I congrat you nerf shouters you done more then once "good job".

Dude firstly calm down by a factor of 11 and secondly i never said anything about nerf.

I said that plenty of ash players and trust me there is plenty just cause you dont see them dont mean they arent there spam 4 without caring for their fellow tenno even if asked nicely(or not so nicely)and i should not have to quit cause of them; I also said REMOVE HIS INVULNERABILITY OF ENEMIES while he BS'ing cause besides that i have no problem with his kit interactive or not.

Again calm down cause you just sound like a bag of hot air.

[Defion]

1 minute ago, MindHoney said:

 

1) whether or not he should be nurfed is a pointless argument, he's getting reworked according to the devs

2) your argument boils down to "not all ash players are like that". An argument used alot by feminists. Thou there are a only a few loud voices, the rest of you are not controling though voices. Your letting thous voices direct your image.

The image I have of ash is not from my clan mates, or friends. Thoughs people I can trust to think about how much fun I'm having. My image of ash and why I think he needs the nurf is because if random Ash's.

I know he is getting a rework and thats not only because Devs dont like him as he is now.

And my argument boils down to, if you dont like players spamming 1 ability there are ways to avoid then rather then shouting nerf every freaking time.

If you want the nerf just cause random Ash players, then why the heck you keep around those? Instead of wanting a nerf for that why not say buff the frame i like the most? I barely see just Ash players, their all pretty mixed in frames, I say let DE show a % of frames used so we can see if Ash is really used as much as people claim to be cause i dont think so.

[Defion]

7 minutes ago, Omnipower said:

Dude firstly calm down by a factor of 11 and secondly i never said anything about nerf.

I said that plenty of ash players and trust me there is plenty just cause you dont see them dont mean they arent there spam 4 without caring for their fellow tenno even if asked nicely(or not so nicely)and i should not have to quit cause of them; I also said REMOVE HIS INVULNERABILITY OF ENEMIES while he BS'ing cause besides that i have no problem with his kit interactive or not.

Again calm down cause you just sound like a bag of hot air.

" and i should not have to quit cause of them "

You shouldnt, its a freaking option you have, just like the freaking ignore command, you dont have to ignore the a-holes but you can. Use the tools given to act accordenly which 60% of the people dont seem to do or get.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[Omnipower]

4 minutes ago, Defion said:

" and i should not have to quit cause of them "

You shouldnt, its a freaking option you have, just like the freaking ignore command, you dont have to ignore the a-holes but you can. Use the tools given to act accordenly which 60% of the people dont seem to do or get.

Yes i understand what you saying but let me give you an example of what i want you to understand and in story form:

Once upon there was  a mirage who abused 4 that blinded entire maps....she got reworked to have LoS cause she made many ppl angry and made ppl quit matches. 

The End

Sorry for sounding condescending but thats exactly whats going on with Ash it may not be as prevalent as mirage's case but its just as annoying so yeah just do away with that invulnerability of enemies he has and we cool(or atleast i am cant speak for others). Cause there should be no frame that causes quits and before you say limbo he is also in the reworks line of sight too hopefully for the better.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Omnipower
typo

[Defion]

18 minutes ago, Omnipower said:

Yes i understand what you saying but let me give you an example of what i want you to understand and in story form:

Once upon there was  a mirage who abused 4 that blinded entire maps (which was fun with the unlimted prism bug)....she got reworked to have LoS cause she made many ppl that did not know how to handle such things properly by the tools the game gives them, so they get angry and made ppl go to forums and shout "NERF" "its to OP" "it got all the kills I wanted". Devs try'ed to so the same and finds out its really not that bad but since people are shouting so much lets make a little change that change the entire ability, then we better change that whole ability to a older ability from a older frame, that older frames used onces in a forgotten time, cause we dont want to hassle and actualy replace it with a whole new ability that people will spam post topics on forum about how OP it is.

The End

Sorry for sounding condescending but thats exactly whats going on with Ash it may not be as prevalent as mirage's case but its just as annoying so yeah just do away with that invulnerability of enemies he has and we cool(or atleast i am cant speak for others). Cause there should be no frame that causes quits and before you say limbo he is also in the reworks line of sight too hopefully for the better.

Kinda fixed that story to be more realistic.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Defion

[kitsu]

20 minutes ago, Defion said:

I know he is getting a rework and thats not only because Devs dont like him as he is now.

And my argument boils down to, if you dont like players spamming 1 ability there are ways to avoid then rather then shouting nerf every freaking time.

If you want the nerf just cause random Ash players, then why the heck you keep around those? Instead of wanting a nerf for that why not say buff the frame i like the most? I barely see just Ash players, their all pretty mixed in frames, I say let DE show a % of frames used so we can see if Ash is really used as much as people claim to be cause i dont think so.

Blocking people is not a valid way to "avoid" such things.

The very bottom line is, ash bladestorm leave him invulnerable, carrier still picks things up, bypasses armor, AND does stealth multiplier damage. If that isn't over the top powerful than I don't know what is.

Currently, DE is about balance, to make things fun, yet challenging. Trinity got her nerf, mag got her nerf, sayrn got her nerf, even mirage got her nerf. They all had 1 thing in common, an overly powerful ability with hardly any setup or negatives.

They are reworking ash to be more team friendly, since he is currently more of a solo frame than coop frame.