How exactly can a weapon be abused? What makes abusing different from simply using?

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

Just now, Eminem2420 said:

You are showing the exact problem. Nobody should leave because somebody can't play as a team. If there are 4 people in a squad, why should 3 have to leave because of one person? It doesn't make sense.

no, you are just being a cry baby if you leave the team and go sulk in the corner, apparently its to hard to just finish the mission and help the team, but your hatred for mirage and simulor won't let you grin your teeth for 30 minutes and just suck it up

you wanna know who i hate the most? limbo, i absolutely hate limbo, but i can suck it up for 30 minutes and just DEAL WITH IT

[Karamethien]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Bortis Badtouch said:

no, you are just being a cry baby if you leave the team and go sulk in the corner, apparently its to hard to just finish the mission and help the team, but your hatred for mirage and simulor won't let you grin your teeth for 30 minutes and just suck it up

you wanna know who i hate the most? limbo, i absolutely hate limbo, but i can suck it up for 30 minutes and just DEAL WITH IT

 

That is just one mission.  Let say you meet such a player in 30% of missions.  50% missions?  Every mission?

But this is all moot.  Whenever something like this happens, the combo will be nerfed to the ground.  

The issue is more about the attitude of "I play how I want, if you don't like it leave."  vs "You are an &#! get the hell out of my game"

Since there is no kick button, the former is what we have to live with.  At least there is blacklisting.

[Eminem2420]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Bortis Badtouch said:

no, you are just being a cry baby if you leave the team and go sulk in the corner, apparently its to hard to just finish the mission and help the team, but your hatred for mirage and simulor won't let you grin your teeth for 30 minutes and just suck it up

you wanna know who i hate the most? limbo, i absolutely hate limbo, but i can suck it up for 30 minutes and just DEAL WITH IT

You fail to address the issue I stated. You are now just tossing around pathetic insults. I have no interest in trying to have a rational conversation with someone who can't even keep insults out of their post.

[DxAdder]

1 minute ago, Eminem2420 said:

No, I didn't. I'm not here to argue semantics.

So for example it's an exterminate mission and I turn on World on fire and kill everything and the mission is over in 3 minutes, is there something wrong with this ?

Me ?  I have no problem with this what so ever, nor do I have a problem with an Meta build being used by someone else on my team.

 

 

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

6 minutes ago, Eminem2420 said:

You fail to address the issue I stated. You are now just tossing around pathetic insults. I have no interest in trying to have a rational conversation with someone who can't even keep insults out of their post.

you failed to understand, i have never had a team disband because of a certain type of warframe or weapon, i am saying 30 minutes with said mirage and simulor is a small fraction of your farming day, there also is this option set up a team without a mirage so you can farm away without having to deal with it, but you are playing with pugs so anything goes, they can use whatever they want to, and should not be punished because of it

[Vohim]

47 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

So for example it's an exterminate mission and I turn on World on fire and kill everything and the mission is over in 3 minutes, is there something wrong with this ?

Me ?  I have no problem with this what so ever, nor do I have a problem with an Meta build being used by someone else on my team.

 

 

world of fire at least has poor scaling and  can only target about 5 targets at a time so while it demolishes everything about lvl 30 and under  its not  enough to breeze through a map at higher level   , at higher level it is more of a CC tool due to its augment giving it a 100% chance of fire  panic procs  wich aids the team as a whole  unless you're trying to get a speed nova to pull enemies quick to farm   efficiently 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Retepzednem

[yoloswagswag]

let people play how they want to- stop calling abuse - real abuse is when youre trading and they change the plat to a lower amount without u noticing because you're still busy putting in more blueprints)  that's abuse 

[Redthirst]

2 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

This game is not just about "killing everything" and any major variations could be considered a new game. Not sure what variations you would like to see introduced?
In my opinion, it is better to get new contents/updates/reworks done properly then to get them out fast and ended up problematic. Panic, stress, overworked and pressure from community that demands hotfixes that doesn't solve the root of the problem. Snowball effect...

I kinda want more stuff like the new Sabotage.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Redthirst

[Khaine62]

After reading a lot of the comments, all I've got to say is this: 

No one's version of fun should supersede another's. However, if your version of fun would make things unfun for others around, you must/should take steps accordingly. Play solo. If you don't and you deprive your squad of fun, you don't have much of right to get mad at them if they get angry at you. At the same time, if you want to take things slow in a mission to pick up somethings and you get a bunch of people who just want run it in 2 minutes, well...same rules apply. 

Basically, if you open yourself up to random people who might have other ways completing a mission or are trying to do something else, you are always taking that chance of getting the person who ruins things for you. That's just a part of how things work, sadly. Fun (A) =/= Fun (B). 

 

@OP 

This is how I define use and abuse:

Using- Is simply taking advantage to of strong synergies between weapons, modes and abilities to get better results. 

Abusing- Taking advantage of synergies to the point that no skill is required.

This is the fundamental difference between the two: the first method is usually a combination research and experience. A person spends time looking at build examples, takes some things to heart to get and use but still puts their own twist everything to suit their needs/taste. 

The second method is doing this to the point that nothing else matters. It doesn't matter what happens, it doesn't matter how poor of a shot you are, it doesn't matter that you frame/weapon is modded to the point that it is only good for this one trick. Why? Because that trick is so powerful that it owns everything in sight. You could be facing a lvl 3 enemy, you could be facing an entire horde horde of lvl 3000 enemies. It doesn't matter that you suit your 6 year old clueless little brother at the controls and tell him to press two buttons. The trick is so good, he'll win even though he doesn't know what's going on. When skill level, enemy type, positioning, mission type and a score of other variables are removed from the equation, it's abuse. 

[Ditto132]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Bortis Badtouch said:

I am agreeing with you but people don"t want to listen to the truth, for example one weapon ruins some guys day for 15 minutes in a survival and he gets on here and cries to the nerf hammer, he is not going to listen to reason.

I think people need to take a step back and see that this a CO-OPERATIVE SHOOTER AND IT CAN ALSO BE PLAYED SOLO but no people don't understand the word co-op, it's a never ending cycle, if a weapon is "good or goes well with a warframe" it will get nerfed into the ground , it's like talking to a brick wall on here sometimes.

Accomplishing things with people on here doesn't exist.

Yeah, it is frustrating when I tried to explain/reason and people still don't get it. I really hope something good would come out of this forum, improving the game.

2 hours ago, (XB1)Bortis Badtouch said:

no, you are just being a cry baby if you leave the team and go sulk in the corner, apparently its to hard to just finish the mission and help the team, but your hatred for mirage and simulor won't let you grin your teeth for 30 minutes and just suck it up

you wanna know who i hate the most? limbo, i absolutely hate limbo, but i can suck it up for 30 minutes and just DEAL WITH IT

I'm not sure what are your reasons for hating Limbo, I hoped that you are just hating those players that are trolling others using Limbo. As I main Limbo XD
I find that your this post is rather harsh and that you are frustrated. Sometime, it could knock some sense into others and bring some realisation for some people. But some people could view it as an insult.

2 hours ago, Karamethien said:

That is just one mission.  Let say you meet such a player in 30% of missions.  50% missions?  Every mission?

But this is all moot.  Whenever something like this happens, the combo will be nerfed to the ground.  

The issue is more about the attitude of "I play how I want, if you don't like it leave."  vs "You are an &#! get the hell out of my game"

Since there is no kick button, the former is what we have to live with.  At least there is blacklisting.

There are reasons why there is no kick button, just like why there is no dislike button(only like button).

1 hour ago, (XB1)Bortis Badtouch said:

you failed to understand, i have never had a team disband because of a certain type of warframe or weapon, i am saying 30 minutes with said mirage and simulor is a small fraction of your farming day, there also is this option set up a team without a mirage so you can farm away without having to deal with it, but you are playing with pugs so anything goes, they can use whatever they want to, and should not be punished because of it

Ironically, I don't understand why people who got issues with certain frames/weapons/combos don't bother voicing out to that player directly in game and still complete the mission, but instead voicing them out in the forum. This doesn't help and inform the player that his playstyle is affecting others in a bad way, allowing them to do their best in avoiding affecting others as badly.
For example, my friend told me that my energy color was rather painful to his eyes. If he didn't told me about it, I won't know that he was having issues with my energy color and I wouldn't have toned down my energy color.

[Ditto132]

10 hours ago, Redthirst said:

I kinda want more stuff like the new Sabotage.

Maybe more variations in Sabotage missions would be nice :D

[Cyriann]

10 hours ago, Khaine62 said:

After reading a lot of the comments, all I've got to say is this: 

No one's version of fun should supersede another's. However, if your version of fun would make things unfun for others around, you must/should take steps accordingly. Play solo. If you don't and you deprive your squad of fun, you don't have much of right to get mad at them if they get angry at you. At the same time, if you want to take things slow in a mission to pick up somethings and you get a bunch of people who just want run it in 2 minutes, well...same rules apply. 

Basically, if you open yourself up to random people who might have other ways completing a mission or are trying to do something else, you are always taking that chance of getting the person who ruins things for you. That's just a part of how things work, sadly. Fun (A) =/= Fun (B). 

 

@OP 

This is how I define use and abuse:

Using- Is simply taking advantage to of strong synergies between weapons, modes and abilities to get better results. 

Abusing- Taking advantage of synergies to the point that no skill is required.

This is the fundamental difference between the two: the first method is usually a combination research and experience. A person spends time looking at build examples, takes some things to heart to get and use but still puts their own twist everything to suit their needs/taste. 

The second method is doing this to the point that nothing else matters. It doesn't matter what happens, it doesn't matter how poor of a shot you are, it doesn't matter that you frame/weapon is modded to the point that it is only good for this one trick. Why? Because that trick is so powerful that it owns everything in sight. You could be facing a lvl 3 enemy, you could be facing an entire horde horde of lvl 3000 enemies. It doesn't matter that you suit your 6 year old clueless little brother at the controls and tell him to press two buttons. The trick is so good, he'll win even though he doesn't know what's going on. When skill level, enemy type, positioning, mission type and a score of other variables are removed from the equation, it's abuse. 

This^^^ 

This is what we were looking for. An explanation that managed to devoid itself from subjectivity. Khaine62 great job at putting this into words.

[Albt8901]

On 8/16/2016 at 9:31 AM, DeMonkey said:

Yes. 

Just my opinion ofc but that's the main point. The game should be work = reward, the more work you put in the greater the reward is (mainly in the form of more killing). Anything that upsets that balance, Mirage and Synoid being a wonderful example, is broken. Any playstyle that seeks to reduce the workload to almost nothing, but substantially increase rewards is abuse. 

Not going against the point of having a balanced game but I'm going to have to disagree on your wording. More work =/= efficiency. Like the old analogy; one guy is pushing a giant brick, works & sweats all day but moves it a foot yet the other guy decides to puts wheels on it and moves it wherever with relative ease. Work smarter, not harder. Just because you decide to take a r0 mk-1 Braton to a sortie doesn't mean you earned an instant delivery of every prime.

I mean, yes, there's a difference between taking advantage of synergies and cheesing OP LEET frames/gear (tho tbh I'm not against it either :p ) but I really don't like the way that you worded your point.

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, Albt8901 said:

but I really don't like the way that you worded your point.

But I do, and that's what matters.

A) I didn't say more work = more efficiency.

B) Real life has completely different rules and values compared to a video game. Pushing a brick is a chore and quite strenuous. Playing a videogame isn't, it's used for entertainment. That analogy has 0 effect in a videogame imo.

C) Strawman: I never said you should be rewarded better for using bad gear, nor did I say the reward should be in the form of prime parts. I said (mainly in the form of killing). I thought it was quite simple, but I'll elaborate for you. The more active your playstyle, the more killing you should be capable of.

[Guest]

i see a very smart whining on some main strong and useful weapons here from the threadopener

im not shure if i should call this "somebody try to appear smart for a nerf" or if threads like this are useless because DE nerfs weapons only if new ones are in the pipeline or appear for a good sale ^^)

thats the only way for nerfing, or some things are really too OP which is simply "another development game" to check something

and, the weapons, one of the best we have in the game, are some syndicate weapons and their value on the trade is more then a bad joke

as well as nobody is talking about the lazy players which rape values for buying cheap stuff

anyway, i think this themes are more then a waste of time, as this thread here ^^)

honestly

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, textural_being said:

i see a very smart whining on some main strong and useful weapons here from the threadopener

im not shure if i should call this "somebody try to appear smart for a nerf" or if threads like this are useless because DE nerfs weapons only if new ones are in the pipeline or appear for a good sale ^^)

thats the only way for nerfing, or some things are really too OP which is simply "another development game" to check something

and, the weapons, one of the best we have in the game, are some syndicate weapons and their value on the trade is more then a bad joke

as well as nobody is talking about the lazy players which rape values for buying cheap stuff

anyway, i think this themes are more then a waste of time, as this thread here ^^)

honestly

 

If you can't provide anything to the thread that isn't an unrelated, unnecessary, completely false assumption about me, some random thought on trading prices, and a clear statement of finding this thread to be a waste of time, then I politely ask you to leave. You do what you will though, I'm obviously not an authority figure.

Edited August 18, 2016 by LazerSkink