Excalibur: Exalted Blade Elemental Mods?

[Almagnus1]

I'm running with Excalibur using a Nikana Prime as my melee weapon, and I've been generally happy with how it functions, but want to improve it's top end damage so....

Do the elemental mods work with Exalted Blade?

[Voidforged]

I assume you mean things like Corrosive? Yes they work. I personally run Gas. :)

Wiki info below.

• Exalted Blade is affected by equipped melee mods including; base damage (e.g., Steel Charge), elemental damage, physical damage, faction damage, channeling (e.g., Life Strike), critical damage, critical chance, status chance, attack speed(e.g., Berserker), and range mods.
• Exalted Blade is not affected by the equipped melee weapon's stats, weapon augments(e.g., Justice Blades, Bright Purity), class-specific mods (e.g., Covert Lethality), or stat-modifying skins (e.g., Manticore).
• http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Exalted_Blade

 

 

[Almagnus1]

9 hours ago, Voidforged said:

I assume you mean things like Corrosive? Yes they work. I personally run Gas. :)

There's got to be a joke about beans in there somewhere.....

9 hours ago, Voidforged said:

Wiki info below.

• Exalted Blade is affected by equipped melee mods including; base damage (e.g., Steel Charge), elemental damage, physical damage, faction damage, channeling (e.g., Life Strike), critical damage, critical chance, status chance, attack speed(e.g., Berserker), and range mods.

That's what I was thinking as well...

What's your take on Life Strike?

9 hours ago, Voidforged said:

• Exalted Blade is not affected by the equipped melee weapon's stats, weapon augments(e.g., Justice Blades, Bright Purity), class-specific mods (e.g., Covert Lethality), or stat-modifying skins (e.g., Manticore).

That's what I had also recalled, as Bloodrush+Body Count don't work with Exalted Blade =/

[Vlada47]

I actually ran one game lately with Life Strike equipped and when I did a channeling attack (in melee range of the blade), I THINK it restored some of my health. Body Count doesn't work with it, not sure about Blood Rush. 

[Epsik-kun]

3 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

What's your take on Life Strike?

Mandatory, except for overstayed missions.

 

Shadow Debt mods don't work on EBlade. Neither do weapon specific mods. Everything else works. Building for status is ultimately stronger than building for pure damage, but that's your second best option.

Building for critical strike is highly sub-optimal, but you can live with that if you want to.

Corrosive + Blast is the best elemental combo for EBlade by a landslide.

[Almagnus1]

That's what I've seen with Life Strike as well, as I know that channeling for long enough to smack something with EB will heal you for a lot (or to full) at the expense of a lot of power.  It comes down a survivability/damage tradeoff though, which is why I was asking so I can get a feel for what others are seeing with it.

1 hour ago, Epsik-kun said:

Building for critical strike is highly sub-optimal, but you can live with that if you want to.

Corrosive + Blast is the best elemental combo for EBlade by a landslide.

What's the base crit and status chance for EB?

I'm currently rethinking my build and I'm trying to make it stronger so my damage in the sorties doesn't fall off as badly as I progress through the sortie missions, so I have a solid alternative to my Hek wielding Inaros tank that doesn't die unless I'm being derpy with it.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Almagnus1

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

4 hours ago, Vlada47 said:

I actually ran one game lately with Life Strike equipped and when I did a channeling attack (in melee range of the blade), I THINK it restored some of my health. Body Count doesn't work with it, not sure about Blood Rush. 

No acolyte mods work on EB, including other energy based ULT frames.

[Epsik-kun]

6 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

What's the base crit and status chance for EB?

I'm currently rethinking my build and I'm trying to make it stronger so my damage in the sorties doesn't fall off as badly as I progress through the sortie missions, so I have a solid alternative to my Hek wielding Inaros tank that doesn't die unless I'm being derpy with it.

15% x2 critical chance + 10% status chance.

For EBlade to stop falling off, you need to build for max efficiency, get up close and use Spin Blind. Properly built EBlade can kill enemy level 500+ relatively fast, which means even improperly built one shouldn't have much troubles with level 100.

[Almagnus1]

23 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

15% x2 critical chance + 10% status chance.

Which basically means go for damage, as crit and status are going to gimp the weapon...

23 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

For EBlade to stop falling off, you need to build for max efficiency, get up close and use Spin Blind. Properly built EBlade can kill enemy level 500+ relatively fast, which means even improperly built one shouldn't have much troubles with level 100.

That's why I'm considering going to:

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Nikana_Prime/t_30_242200002_226-3-5-241-4-5-245-6-5-251-5-5-254-7-5-321-1-3-364-8-3-729-2-10-733-0-10_733-7-321-4-729-7-226-5-241-11-251-11-245-11-254-11-364-10/en/4-0-99

The forma pattern actually fits in with a more general build I'm planning on using with the other Warframes, which is going to be....

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Nikana_Prime/t_30_242200002_224-1-5-226-6-5-239-2-5-241-4-5-360-5-5-364-8-3-625-7-5-637-3-10-733-0-10_733-7-224-11-239-5-637-7-241-11-360-11-226-9-625-9-364-10/en/4-0-99

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

Which basically means go for damage, as crit and status are going to gimp the weapon

You would think so, however in the end status built EBlade will outperform a pure damage one. Armor has immense negative impact on your damage and having high status not only allows you to shred bits of armor away - you'll bypass it relatively consistently. Not to say, EBlade slash procs through blind are devastating.

Also 10% status chance is applied to both waves and the blade itself, thus giving you effective ~20% when you are up close.

 

However, in terms of pure dps your first build is pretty much the best option.

[Almagnus1]

3 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

You would think so, however in the end status built EBlade will outperform a pure damage one. Armor has immense negative impact on your damage and having high status not only allows you to shred bits of armor away - you'll bypass it relatively consistently. Not to say, EBlade slash procs through blind are devastating.

Also 10% status chance is applied to both waves and the blade itself, thus giving you effective ~20% when you are up close.

So swap out a few of the elemental for elemental/status then?

[Voidforged]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

Which basically means go for damage, as crit and status are going to gimp the weapon...

I build for both crit and status, works fine. Can slaughter anything below 140 with ease, haven't tried going above as there's no incentive atm.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Voidforged

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

So swap out a few of the elemental for elemental/status then?

I would recommend going for 4 dual-stats corrosive + blast combo. It isn't forma heavy and you shouldn't have problems fitting it on a weapon. However, if you already have a weapon that can be built for 4 x90% elementals, you might want to try it out as well.

If you don't have access to simulacrum - run a grineer sortie - you'll see the difference.

 

As a side note, if you don't intend going close to enemy - there's not much of a point in building for status. However, EBlade is weak if you're only using waves.

[Almagnus1]

4 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

I would recommend going for 4 dual-stats corrosive + blast combo. It isn't forma heavy and you shouldn't have problems fitting it on a weapon. However, if you already have a weapon that can be built for 4 x90% elementals, you might want to try it out as well.

If you don't have access to simulacrum - run a grineer sortie - you'll see the difference.

 

As a side note, if you don't intend going close to enemy - there's not much of a point in building for status. However, EBlade is weak if you're only using waves.

Using an Amphis in warframe-builder.com to simulate the status chance for Exalted Blade (as their both 10%), the concern is that I'm trading off 120% damage across the four dual stat mods for only an increase of 24% on the status (bringing it up to 34%)  In the best case scenario, that means 34% + 66%*34% = ~56.44% chance for status.  While that does seem low, I can see the benefit in the later sorties.  At worst, it should be a proc about every three attacks or so.

Likewise, using a Dragon Nikana to simulate crit chance, while the base multiplier does go from 2.0 => 3.8, the crit chance only goes from 15% => 24%.  Even maxing out the combo multiplier and the Berserker buffs, it's a net DPS loss (on paper) going with Organ Shatter/True Steel instead of another couple of elemental mods on the Dragon Nikana, so I'd imagine the same would be true for Exalted Blade.

That said, if you throw Blood Rush and Body Count into the mix, then Organ Shatter and True Steel help the weapon become a monster... but that's not applicable to Exalted Blade XD

[Voidforged]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

-snip-

My build in action below. Though I never use the weapon itself, it's only to hold the mods for Exalted Blade. I used to run the 90%'s in place of True Steel and Organ Shatter, but I prefer this. Each to their own.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Voidforged

[Almagnus1]

10 hours ago, Voidforged said:

My build in action below. Though I never use the weapon itself, it's only to hold the mods for Exalted Blade. I used to run the 90%'s in place of True Steel and Organ Shatter, but I prefer this. Each to their own.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I don't doubt the performance because it's similar to my current build - which shreds everything in the starmap with ease.

That's also why I haven't been responding to you.

Edit:

To drive the point home, here's a four elemental status mod build on the Nikana Prime:

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Nikana_Prime/t_30_240000002_226-3-5-238-4-3-266-5-3-321-1-3-327-6-3-358-7-3-364-8-3-729-2-10-733-0-10_733-7-321-4-729-14-226-9-238-7-266-7-327-7-358-7-364-10/en/4-0-99

And here's the crit/corrosive status build:

http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Nikana_Prime/t_30_240000002_224-6-5-226-3-5-238-4-3-239-7-5-266-5-3-321-1-3-364-8-3-729-2-10-733-0-10_733-7-321-4-729-14-226-9-238-7-266-7-224-9-239-9-364-10/en/4-0-99

Essentially you're trading DPS, status chance, and the blast proc for the ability to do more crit damage.  Without Blood Rush and Body Count in the picture, I'm not seeing it as a good idea.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Almagnus1

[Voidforged]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

Essentially you're trading DPS, status chance, and the blast proc for the ability to do more crit damage.  Without Blood Rush and Body Count in the picture, I'm not seeing it as a good idea.

I just took that build up against the same 140's and it didn't perform half as well. When enemies are blind, every hit is a critical hit, and gas proc's multiply that by 8x in a radius around it. I don't want a blast proc halving my chance to get the proc I actually want.

On-paper dps and in-practice dps are two drastically different things.

However, I'll be moving on, as you're obviously set in your ways and not really asking for advice. 

[Almagnus1]

46 minutes ago, Voidforged said:

I just took that build up against the same 140's and it didn't perform half as well. When enemies are blind, every hit is a critical hit, and gas proc's multiply that by 8x in a radius around it. I don't want a blast proc halving my chance to get the proc I actually want.

On-paper dps and in-practice dps are two drastically different things.

However, I'll be moving on, as you're obviously set in your ways and not really asking for advice. 

Or perhaps I'm challenging you to do more than show anecdotal evidence, because I'm not going to blindly take your build and run with it (which is what you're coming across as).  But if you're gonna press the issue...

• How's your warframe modded?
   
• How well do you handle Eximus units?

Looking at the math with full Naramon crit, the crit chance works out to be about 31% (.15*1.6*.13).

As far as status goes, only two mods is a 22% base status chance, vs the 34% base status of four mods.  Which works out to be about a proc every 4-5 chances, vs a proc every 2-3 chances.

And that ties into Corrosive, yes it's easy to take down the fragbait mobs (that's expected), but it's dealing with the Eximus Stronghold or Augmented Enemy Armor that I'm more concerned with, especially when that debuff is on the third sortie.  So unless I'm fundamentally missing something about the toxin proc, I'm not seeing the gas proc to be as good as the corrosive proc in those scenarios.

[Epsik-kun]

4 hours ago, Voidforged said:

When enemies are blind, every hit is a critical hit

This is false.

What kills your enemies isn't gas proc, which is worthless. It's EBlade base damage and finishers in case of armored units. If swapping critical mods for damage mods harmed your performance in any way it only means you went for lesser amount of finishers this time around.

[shut]

4 hours ago, Voidforged said:

I just took that build up against the same 140's and it didn't perform half as well. When enemies are blind, every hit is a critical hit, and gas proc's multiply that by 8x in a radius around it. I don't want a blast proc halving my chance to get the proc I actually want.

Blinded enemies receive an 8x stealth multiplier from melee hits. It doesn't have anything at all to do with Crits, aside from the fact that it turns the numbers yellow (which is where the confusion comes from).

With your build, you would actually gain both DPS and increase your Gas proc chance from replacing that Organ Shatter with a Fever Strike / Molten Impact. As it is now, your Organ Shatter serves only to noticeably increase your spike damage on the off chance that you land a crit; replacing this with a 90% Elemental will increase your non-crit damage by more than enough to compensate.

 

I personally enjoy having True Steel in my build, if only for helping maintain max Berserker stacks. But Organ Shatter really isn't better than a 90% Elemental in the vast, vast majority of EB builds.

 

4 hours ago, Voidforged said:

On-paper dps and in-practice dps are two drastically different things.

I've only seen this response from people who want to adamantly believe in their builds despite the math clearly stating that another is advantageous in virtually every conceivable way.

Yes, there are obviously situations in gameplay that the on-paper calculations don't take into account. That doesn't change the fact that a gun that deals a flat 1000 damage will always outperform an otherwise-identical gun that deals a flat 900 damage.

[Almagnus1]

43 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I personally enjoy having True Steel in my build, if only for helping maintain max Berserker stacks. But Organ Shatter really isn't better than a 90% Elemental in the vast, vast majority of EB builds.

While I know that Naramon is half as much Crit as True Steel, do you think that would work OK enough to drop True Steel from the build?

The Berserker/Crit interaction was something that I wasn't thinking about >.>

Edited September 15, 2016 by Almagnus1

[shut]

29 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

While I know that Naramon is half as much Crit as True Steel, do you think that would work OK enough to drop True Steel from the build?

The Berserker/Crit interaction was something that I wasn't thinking about >.>

It's totally up to you.
If you're able to maintain Berserker stacks without any additional crit chance, then you can easily drop the True Steel for an extra elemental mod or something. I'm fairly certain the elemental mod will give noticeably more DPS than TS, provided that you're able to maintain maximum Berserker stacks.

If you're like me and you have this horrible combination of being terrible at leading shots (leading to relatively few hits per second) and bad luck for rolling crits, though, then True Steel is great to have. Deadly Intent will be great as well, both with and without TS; provided that you don't mind waiting a bit longer before being able to press 5 (which can potentially be life-or-death in a Sortie mission if you're not careful).

Edited September 15, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Epsik-kun]

19 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

The Berserker/Crit interaction was something that I wasn't thinking about

Berserker is perfectly sustainable on a slow 10% critical chance weapon. EBlade is fast, has 15% critical chance and 40m punch through.

Sustaining Shadow Step is also not a problem. However, True Steel will make moving around in Shadow Step a bit safer for you - due to taking less time on average to re-activate it. As well as it'll make your Berserker more consistent on low level maps, where you're oneshotting everything.

It also depends on what level of content do you intend to face. Against armored level 300+ there's pretty much only one EBlade build that still works. Against Sorties trading some of your DPS for the sake of consistency is fine.

[Almagnus1]

23 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

It also depends on what level of content do you intend to face. Against armored level 300+ there's pretty much only one EBlade build that still works. Against Sorties trading some of your DPS for the sake of consistency is fine.

It's mainly the sorties that I'm concerned about, as getting a build that wrecks face there is going to be more than sufficient for the rest of the star map.

By the way, what's the EB build you're referring to?

[Epsik-kun]

1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

By the way, what's the EB build you're referring to?

Spoiler

With Life Strike swapped for 90% elec or toxin.

[Almagnus1]

The other aspect fire Exalted Blade that we haven't really been talking about is the warframe mod load out.

So what does the optimal load out look like?