Nekros: A complete rework (2nd attempt)

[--Q--uaint]

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

Nekros doesn't win anything here, and I wasn't even comparing to Nekros

This entire thread is about Nekros. If we're not even tangentially discussing him, why are we here?

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

are you really going to tell me that a 90% damage reduction and aggro is better than being able to trigger a dozen or more ~10 second invincibility periods with the press of one button?

Nope. I am saying it's close enough to godmode as makes no difference... in 99% of the game's content.

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

Maybe even sooner because at some point (even in sorties) enemies can just one-shot your shadows even with max power strength?

I've never seen this happen. Enemy EHP far outclasses enemy damage output, in general. It loses at some absurdly high enemy level, but your weapons are so punily insignificant at that point that Nekros will be dealing more damage than Wukong anyway.

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

And are we even going to talk about the fact that you need very specific builds to achieve any sort of relevant EHP with Nekros?

Most 'frames require "very specific builds" for end/metagame setups. What else is new?

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

Nekros is definitely not nearly as good at surviving stuff as a Wukong, not even if you were to use health conversion.

I agree, but enemies don't deal enough damage for the difference to be relevant in 90% of the game's content.

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

And I have no idea what's wrong with your aim, but Iron Jab works perfectly fine for me

In my experience, it was pretty inconsistent with where it actually hit. It also doesn't consistently hit a lot of other enemies, in my experience.

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

it's still not a "lame CC" as you mentioned.

Its damage isn't really worth building for since you can get comparable damage without spending energy or restricting your movement with a gun. Soul Punch is far better CC since you are guaranteed to hit at least one thing and it pretty consistently hits others... all without interrupting reloads or movement.

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

Anyway, the point was that Wukong isn't useless, surely no one is forcing you to use him

I know. I never said he was. There's just a better alternative for 99% of situations in the game.
I could say, for instance, that Wukong is great for Kela sortie assassinate since he can just tank all the BS damage she throws out and not care. Chroma is still probably better, since he survives just as well and hits back even harder than Wukong can.

15 hours ago, Praxxor said:

telling me stuff that we both know isn't true for the sake of a stupid argument doesn't make you right.

blink

Did I say something untrue? I don't think I did, in this discussion.

[Praxxor]

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

This entire thread is about Nekros. If we're not even tangentially discussing him, why are we here?

19 hours ago, Praxxor said:

Maybe, just maybe because you mentioned Wukong yourself?

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Nope. I am saying it's close enough to godmode as makes no difference... in 99% of the game's content.

19 hours ago, Praxxor said:

 

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Did I say something untrue? I don't think I did, in this discussion.

Again, 90% damage reduction and aggro control is nothing similar to godmode, especially in this game, and you know that perfectly well.

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Its damage isn't really worth building for since you can get comparable damage without spending energy or restricting your movement with a gun. Soul Punch is far better CC since you are guaranteed to hit at least one thing and it pretty consistently hits others... all without interrupting reloads or movement.

19 hours ago, Praxxor said:

I think you missed the part where it scales with melee mods, so you don't even have to build for Strength, and Iron Jab has a soft-lock on enemies, so you are guaranteed to hit something as long as you are aiming at something in range. Soul Punch does have good CC, but it doesn't deal nearly as much damage. Again the point was that it's not a lame CC as you said.

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Nope. I am saying it's close enough to godmode as makes no difference... in 99% of the game's content.

19 hours ago, Praxxor said:

 

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

I know. I never said he was. There's just a better alternative for 99% of situations in the game.

I just love the numbers here.

[--Q--uaint]

31 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Maybe, just maybe because you mentioned Wukong yourself?

I mentioned him tangentially with respect to Nekros. You blew up at me, saying that I was implying something I wasn't.

32 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Again, 90% damage reduction and aggro control is nothing similar to godmode, especially in this game, and you know that perfectly well.

With the death of endless, it's close enough. Even in endless, it's pretty close. 90% DR with Health Conversion and constant regen of energy and health from Despoil and Equilibrium make him very hard to take down.

34 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

I think you missed the part where it scales with melee mods, so you don't even have to build for Strength

You mentioned this before; I used it on level ~20 Grineer Lancers with a good melee and it didn't kill them. It's quite possible that it didn't initially scale that way, though.

[F4talFr4me]

There is nothing fun about current nekros.

3rd skill is useless now. first 2 skills are weak and useless. his ULT is pure RNG garbage. ill take any rework he can get.

This rework proposed sounds much more fun (tho complicated) than current nekros.

[Praxxor]

18 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

I mentioned him tangentially with respect to Nekros. You blew up at me, saying that I was implying something I wasn't.

55 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

But I asked if you were implying that, a simple no would have ended the entire discussion before it even started. Though I admit that my question was a lot more aggressive than necessary.

 

20 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

With the death of endless, it's close enough. Even in endless, it's pretty close. 90% DR with Health Conversion and constant regen of energy and health from Despoil and Equilibrium make him very hard to take down.

I agree that he's very hard to take down, but, again, that's not what "godmode" means.

37 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

You mentioned this before; I used it on level ~20 Grineer Lancers with a good melee and it didn't kill them. It's quite possible that it didn't initially scale that way, though.

Iron Jab without any melee mods was able to take out about half of a 20 level corrupted lancer's hp. Might've been bugged though, happened a lot to me.

[Fomiru]

I disagree, I think Nekros is in a perfect spot right now and is a very tanky and great Warframe to bring with on a squad if you need extra resources and support.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

On September 30, 2016 at 0:19 PM, -Scourge said:

i've been away from the game for over a year now, so i don't know how "hard" sorties are, but since then not many changes were applied to him, 

on the old thread, people said similar things, but my argument was that most other frames will do a better job anyways, which is why this thread exists, to give him something he himself can do better as a support/tank/dps frame.

After this comment I lost it.

So let me get this straight. You come here. Throw up a rework. Try and back up your idea... All without having played the game in an extended period of time?

Have you tried Nekros with his recent rework? Oh, right you've been away from the game for over a year.

[-Scourge]

14 hours ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

After this comment I lost it.

So let me get this straight. You come here. Throw up a rework. Try and back up your idea... All without having played the game in an extended period of time?

Have you tried Nekros with his recent rework? Oh, right you've been away from the game for over a year.

"but since then not many changes were applied to him," -scourge :)

Recent rework? you call that a rework? all it is, is a direct buff to his shadows, a passive, and a change that i, and many others have been suggesting for years: making desecrate an aura-type ability.

Your standards are too damn low, and so is the rest of the community's.

Edit: All warframe has going for it is the fact that it's free-to-play, this kind of crap balancing is not acceptable in other games. 

DE should learn a thing or two from blizzard, or even Riot.

"after this comment i lost it"

Oh please, Ivan.

Edited October 2, 2016 by -Scourge
clarification

[-Scourge]

7 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

Edit: All warframe has going for it is the fact that it's free-to-play, this kind of crap balancing is not acceptable in other games. 

DE should learn a thing or two from blizzard, or even Riot.

Which is a shame, i really want to see this game succeed, most of the community accepts whatever is thrown at it, and keeps repeating "it's fine as it is.", when others are clearly complaining about something.

Stop holding this game back, seriously.

[Aspari]

I shared a similar view to yours years ago when I was still very serious about this game. I wanted an offensive death-magic Warframe, but what I got was a guy who can spawn armies of dummies and be the real Farmframe. I don't like summoning NPCs in any game. I'd rather do -all- the work by myself. I was hoping for more of an offensive Death Knight with some minor support leanings out of Nekros than a damage mitigation unit and resource farmer. Soul Punch is the only ability I actually like because it's a telekinetic death punch, which I sometimes spec for so I can pretend I'm in One Punch Man. Terrify just doesn't work right 100% of the time, Desecrate doesn't even need to be an ability (it could just be a unique, hidden passive instead), and Shadows of the Dead is a summon which I have an insurmountable bias towards because it's a summon spell. 

 

That all out of the way, Nekros is an okay frame when you're not doing endless missions. He's strong there, and losing with him is very rare, but there are more exciting, more skillful picks. This is still my main issue with Nekros. His skills, collectively, aren't cool enough for his aesthetic. It's like calling a donut a "magic donut" because it looks like it came from space, but the entire thing just tastes like normal glaze with varying textures.