Nekros: A complete rework (2nd attempt)

[-Scourge]

(i made this thread 2 years ago, and it didn't get much attention.Seeing how Nekros still doesn't live up to his name as "the harbinger of death", and is too weak to cause any form of "terror" to his enemies.. i would like to give this thread a second chance.)

(Fun fact: i suggested shield of shadows and soul survivor as ability reworks for Nekros, before they made it into the game as augments, on very old threads that were deleted/archived, a shame that they made them into augments, but hey, they made it into the game atleast :/)

Currently (2 years ago and still counting) Nekros is one of the worst warframes if not THE worst in terms of abilities and synergy between said abilities as well as how effective those abilities are. i can say with confidence that he is outclassed by ALL frames in every role. (except for farming, which should never be a role.)

 A full rework is without a doubt, a must. and here is my take on i.

 

 

 

 

 

                                                                              -(ability resource)-     

 

Souls' cage: Nekros can store up to 30 "soul essence" which are used to enhance his abilities or sacrificed to benefit himself or his allies. the number of essence you have will be displayed on your first ability, "sacrifice".

 

Souls' cage capacity can not be increased. (Nekros prime should have an increased capacity, maybe 40?)

 

Soul essence is gained by killing enemies (you don't have to deal the killing blow, just doing damage is fine).

 

Light units = 1 soul essence.

 

Medium units = 2 soul essence.

 

Heavy units = 3 soul essence.

 

Eximus units = 4 soul essence.

 

Players (pvp)= 5 soul essence.

 

                                                                                  -(passive)-

 

at 30 soul essence, nekros's shadows will get a 30% increase in health and damage. 1% for each essence stored, and Nekros will receive 5% less damage from all sources. (passives are not affected by power strength/duration etc.) damage reduction only activates when at 30 essence, having 29 essence for example will not activate damage reduction. (he finally got a passive!, but i'm leaving these here for those that are interested.)

 

 

 

                                                                                 -(1st ability)-

 

Sacrifice: Nekros uses stored soul essence to heal himself or his allies (when used without any essence left it will cost 25 energy.)

 

When used without aiming at an ally, Nekros will sacrifice 3 souls to heal himself 10% of his maximum health (affected by power strength, soul cost not affected by efficiency, energy is.) when used while aiming at an ally it will cost you 3 souls to heal them 10% of "your" maximum health, when used on shadows it will cost 1 soul essence to heal them 25% of their maximum health and will prioritize them. (go to 4th ability to get the concept of shadow priority)

 

 

 

                                                                         -(1st ability augments)-

 

1)Soul survivor: when used while aiming at a downed ally it will instantly revive them for 20 soul essence and 50 energy to 30% health

 

2)Viral sacrifice: casting sacrifice on an ally will add viral damage to all of their attacks. (as well as heal them for 3 souls.)

 

 

 

                                                                                 -(2nd ability)-

 

Haunt: Nekros unleashes the souls trapped in his cage to weaken and paralyze enemies in a state of terror.

 

the number of enemies affected by this ability will depend on the number of soul essence in the cage (Not affected by power strength) for example using this ability with 3 essence in the cage will terrify 3 enemies, consuming the essence in the process and paralyzing them in place for 15 seconds(affected by power duration)  over a range of 15m (affected by power range). and an energy cost of 50 (affected by efficiency) also has a viral proc chance of 50% (not affected by power strength). using sacrifice on a terrified enemy will sacrifice one soul essence to refresh the effect on that enemy.

 

 

 

                                                                         -(2nd ability augments)-

 

1)self resurrection: pressing the "use power" key or "2" during bleed out while having 30 essence in the cage will revive you to 50% health with 0 shields (will immediately start recharging) consuming all of the essence in the process not affected by efficiency). (available as an option when solo)

 

2)spiritual protection: haunt will also buff allies'(including shadows') armor by 5% for each enemy affected. for the duration of 30 seconds (not affected by strength. affected by duration).

 

 

 

(pvp) it will change the victim's allies' team icon to the enemies' and their enemies to theirs (only to those in its range at the time of casting obviously) for the duration, making them waste time shooting their allies thinking it's the enemy.

 

 

 

                                                                                   -(3rd ability)-

 

Harvest: for 20 seconds (affected by power duration) enemies that die within 12m (affected by power range) of nekros have a 40% chance of dropping health orbs, 10% chance of dropping energy orbs and a 30% chance of yielding 1 extra soul essence(Even if you didn't deal damage to them).(all affected by power strength). 

 

 

 

If they are also affected by haunt as they die, the corpses will explode in 3 seconds(affected by duration) dealing 20% of that corpse's max health as viral damage to nearby enemies. (affected by power strength)

 

 

 

                                                                                   -(4th ability)-

 

Shadows of the dead: (toggle ability, energy drain affected by efficiency) when activated, enemies that die(they will not yield soul essence) within 15m (affected by power range) of Nekros will come back as shadows that can deal 150% more damage than their original selves and have 100% more health(affected by power strength). a maximum of 7 shadows can be made at a time (Not affected by power strength) and heavy unit shadows will be prioritized over light unit shadows. for example if you had 7 light unit shadows and a heavy unit dies in your vicinity, the weakest of those 7 or the one with the least health(if they are all the same) will be replaced by a heavy unit shadow instead. the shadows will remain until they die, even if the power is deactivated. the shadows have a health regen of 1% (of their maximum health) every 3 seconds (affected by power duration, not affected by power strength). shadows aggressively seek out targets and only take cover when health hits 15% or less.

 

 

 

using sacrifice on one of the shadows to heal them will prioritize them over other shadows so they won't be replaced. 

 

when these healed shadows die, they drop a health orb.

 

 

 

 

                                                                           changes based on feedback

 

 

1) when you activate sotd every enemy that dies in your vicinity becomes a shadow etc etc. when you hit it again the ability stops. but now that you have shadows, when you hit sotd again you dismiss them all and if you were aiming at one of them hitting it will only dismiss that specific shadow with no extra cost. 

 

2)augment that turns your shadows invisible while undetected. and if you were detected they will be visible again. this is a nice option for those that want to play nekros for stealth but then again.. you wouldn't use an sotd build if you were planning on doing stealth anyway but hey it's there :)

Edited September 30, 2016 by -Scourge
scratched outdated statement.

[artemisfortune]

This seems overly complicated. He fits his niche and is fun to play as is.

[-Scourge]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

This seems overly complicated. He fits his niche and is fun to play as is.

fun doesn't make him viable.

And i disagree about him being fun, he's very boring actually. Edit: A shame, really.. out of all the frames, he's the one i like the most, based on concept/looks

also it's not complicated at all, i'm just going into extreme detail to explain what his new abilities can and can't do, and how they act together in synergy.

Edited September 30, 2016 by -Scourge

[artemisfortune]

1 hour ago, -Scourge said:

fun doesn't make him viable.

And i disagree about him being fun, he's very boring actually. Edit: A shame, really.. out of all the frames, he's the one i like the most, based on concept/looks

also it's not complicated at all, i'm just going into extreme detail to explain what his new abilities can and can't do, and how they act together in synergy.

that's the problem with things being subjective.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

He's fun for me. I made a new build with 1 forma last night and was having a blast with how much he could tank.

And if anything, trinity is WAY MORE boring than nekros.

Edited September 30, 2016 by (PS4)joshw1400
Trinity

[-Scourge]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

that's the problem with things being subjective.

Actual viability in the game isn't subjective :)

EDIT: whether he's fun or not isn't what this thread is about.

Edited September 30, 2016 by -Scourge
clarification

[artemisfortune]

57 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

Actual viability in the game isn't subjective :)

EDIT: whether he's fun or not isn't what this thread is about.

I haven't failed a mission with him ever, and I've brought him into Sorties.

[--Q--uaint]

13 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

i can say with confidence that he is outclassed by ALL frames in every role

Hydroid is giving you a very disappointed look. Oberon and Wukong look somewhat miffed.

9 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

fun doesn't make him viable.

Yes, but Nekros is actually very strong. Health Conversion/Shield of Shadows/Despoil Nekros is one of the tankiest 'frames in game, and gets significant DPS along with that.

11 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

And i disagree about him being fun, he's very boring actually.

Find a different 'frame, then?

11 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

also it's not complicated at all,

Adding a new resource to the game is complicating things.

[Praxxor]

1 minute ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Hydroid is giving you a very disappointed look. Oberon and Wukong look somewhat miffed.

Yes, but Nekros is actually very strong. Health Conversion/Shield of Shadows/Despoil Nekros is one of the tankiest 'frames in game, and gets significant DPS along with that.

Find a different 'frame, then?

Adding a new resource to the game is complicating things.

Did you just try to imply that Wukong is useless?

[Anatolius]

I agree that he needs more synergy in his kit (he is one of my top go to frames and not for farming resources for once)

that being said, I dont think his kit needs an overhaul. I like your ideas tho (tho I like the names they have already). The kinda soul essence would kinda enhance his game play. I PERSONALLY think he is in a very good place overall so your idea would be nice to play with one day but I also dont see it happening. I do like the QOL you got going on and simple buffs to your abilities based on your soul snatched pool would be nice

[-Scourge]

1 minute ago, ChronoEclipse said:

-Shield of Shadows

-Find a different 'frame, then?

-Adding a new resource to the game is complicating things.

- i suggested that, thank you very much:)

-not happening, mate.

-the "resource" already exists as his "soul pool" i'm just giving it a new function with a new name.

[NinjaKitsune56]

Dunno why you're hating on Nekros' abilities... I find they work quite well as-is.

That, and I admit to having criminal amounts of fun Soul Punching enemies across the room.

[-Scourge]

9 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I haven't failed a mission with him ever, and I've brought him into Sorties.

i've been away from the game for over a year now, so i don't know how "hard" sorties are, but since then not many changes were applied to him, 

on the old thread, people said similar things, but my argument was that most other frames will do a better job anyways, which is why this thread exists, to give him something he himself can do better as a support/tank/dps frame.

Edited September 30, 2016 by -Scourge
clarification

[--Q--uaint]

2 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Did you just try to imply that Wukong is useless?

Wukong is tanky, sure... but that's all he's got going for him. Nekros has more tankiness than you'll need for almost any content the game has to offer, and has relevant abilities other than "oh look I can't die"

3 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

- i suggested that, thank you very much:)

Yes, so you said. I wasn't debating that. It's an extremely strong augment and saying that Nekros is useless is bunk.

4 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

-not happening, mate.

If he's boring, why not?

4 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

-the "resource" already exists as his "soul pool" i'm just giving it a new function with a new name.

Tying it to all of his abilities will just make him clunkier to use.

[GrimAtrament]

20 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

fun doesn't make him viable.

meanwhile hes required for every JV raid ever....

 

and has very strong survivability 

 

maybe you just need more practice.

 

also your destroying his old kit with this rework so no

unless you keep soul punch fear, descrate and shadow of the dead your rework is a brand new frame and not nekros

[-Scourge]

5 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

-If he's boring, why not?

-Tying it to all of his abilities will just make him clunkier to use.

-He's the frame that pulled me into the game in the first place, no other frame comes close to "interesting" for me, valkyr and inaros are exceptions, but still.

-which is why i increased the capacity, and boosted the amount of souls gained(some of his abilities even boost it further) based on which type of enemy he kills.

this adds an interesting resource management aspect to his necromancer kit, in my opinion.

Edited September 30, 2016 by -Scourge
typo

[Praxxor]

5 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Wukong is tanky, sure... but that's all he's got going for him. Nekros has more tankiness than you'll need for almost any content the game has to offer, and has relevant abilities other than "oh look I can't die"

I don't think you've even used him

[-Scourge]

5 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

-meanwhile hes required for every JV raid ever....

and has very strong survivability 

-unless you keep soul punch fear, descrate and shadow of the dead your rework is a brand new frame and not nekros

-mainly because of his cc abilities(health orbs also :o), which i didn't take away from him, i only improved them.

 

-the abilities i suggested fit very well in his theme (fear/death/necromancy), so, he's still very much "Nekros".

[--Q--uaint]

1 minute ago, -Scourge said:

-He's the frame that pulled me into the game in the first place, no other frame comes close to "interesting" for me, valkyr and inaros are exceptions, but still

Find another game? TBH, Nekros's recent balance pass has put him in a place where people would riot if he was changed again. If a Nekros you can't have is the only thing you want, I don't think there's much for you in Warframe.

3 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

-which is why i increased the capacity, and boosted the amount of souls gained(some of his abilities even boost it further) based on which type of enemy he kills

I don't think it's necessary to limit the abilities you've specified by tying them to kills in that way. They're not really OP by any means.

4 minutes ago, -Scourge said:

this adds an interesting resource management to aspect to his necromancer kit, in my opinion.

A resource management that doesn't really have a place in a game as fast-paced as Warframe, IMO.

I think at this point I think the best thing would be to agree to disagree.

3 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

I don't think you've even used him

Before making such assertions, check your facts.

#1 is lame CC

#2 is godmode

#3 is godmode with no weapons

#4 is a weapon that's inferior to Shadow Debt melee but specifically built around scaling... so basically useless in its own niche.

[GrimAtrament]

Just now, -Scourge said:

-mainly because of his cc abilities(health orbs also :o), which i didn't take away from him, i only improved them.

 

-the abilities i suggested fit very well in his theme (fear/death/necromancy), so, he's still very much "Nekros".

you still dont get it.

 

they only took away exals super jump because it was no longer needed with parkor 2.0

 

your getting RID of nekyro's old abilities so NO 

you can change how they work a bit but complete removal and replacement has not happened unless a ingame system all frames could use made it redundant 

noticed that with vubans rework he still has BOUNCE

[-Scourge]

1 minute ago, hazerddex said:

you can change how they work a bit but complete removal and replacement has not happened unless a ingame system all frames could use made it redundant 

noticed that with vubans rework he still has BOUNCE

I know that very well, but it doesn't hurt to try.

it's not like i'm demanding this happens, i'm just suggesting, possibly even inspiring. (like soul survivor and shield of shadows)

[-Scourge]

9 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

-I don't think it's necessary to limit the abilities you've specified by tying them to kills in that way. They're not really OP by any means.

-A resource management that doesn't really have a place in a game as fast-paced as Warframe, IMO.

- can be tweaked by DE so that it does become necessary.

-Warframe>>>Fast-paced?  ha.

Edited September 30, 2016 by -Scourge
typo

[Praxxor]

20 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Find another game? TBH, Nekros's recent balance pass has put him in a place where people would riot if he was changed again. If a Nekros you can't have is the only thing you want, I don't think there's much for you in Warframe.

I don't think it's necessary to limit the abilities you've specified by tying them to kills in that way. They're not really OP by any means.

A resource management that doesn't really have a place in a game as fast-paced as Warframe, IMO.

I think at this point I think the best thing would be to agree to disagree.

Before making such assertions, check your facts.

#1 is lame CC

#2 is godmode

#3 is godmode with no weapons

#4 is a weapon that's inferior to Shadow Debt melee but specifically built around scaling... so basically useless in its own niche.

#1 Scales with melee mods and deals surprisingly good damage for a 1st ability, it's something like a static Landslide, not just lame CC

#2 Godmode - useless right? Right? 

#3 Can be used for some interesting stuff, especially in raids, but sure it's a gimmick at the end.

#4 Has an augment that you have probably never looked at, its damage may be inferior to some weapons like Galatine Prime, but inferior =/= useless.

Wukong also has a passive ability that not many people notice, your combo counter timer is increased by 66%

Again, have you ever really used him after maxing him for MR and dumping?

[--Q--uaint]

1 minute ago, Praxxor said:

#1 Scales with melee mods and deals surprisingly good damage for a 1st ability, it's something like a static Landslide, not just lame CC

Its targeting isn't especially good. Landslide has much better usability and better damage.

2 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

#2 Godmode - useless right? Right? 

Nekros has close enough for all but the most ridiculously high level enemies, and even then, he's got a bunch of obstacles for the enemies to shoot and aggro at.

Nekros wins this, especially with the death of endless.

3 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

#4 Has an augment that you have probably never looked at, its damage may be inferior to some weapons like Galatine Prime, but inferior =/= useless.

I looked at it. It's not enough to make it scale like Blood Rush.

Its damage is inferior to basically any melee considered "good" that's running Blood Rush.

4 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Wukong also has a passive ability that not many people notice, your combo counter timer is increased by 66%

I know. I noticed it when I used him. It's not really a big deal most of the time... and if it is, his #4 is almost certainly actively being outclassed ;3

6 minutes ago, Praxxor said:

Again, have you ever really used him after maxing him for MR and dumping?

I ran him enough to know that I wasn't interested in using him more. I'm pretty certain I ran him on at least a few missions and did some testing after maxing him.

[Praxxor]

23 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Its targeting isn't especially good. Landslide has much better usability and better damage.

Nekros has close enough for all but the most ridiculously high level enemies, and even then, he's got a bunch of obstacles for the enemies to shoot and aggro at.

Nekros wins this, especially with the death of endless.

I looked at it. It's not enough to make it scale like Blood Rush.

Its damage is inferior to basically any melee considered "good" that's running Blood Rush.

I know. I noticed it when I used him. It's not really a big deal most of the time... and if it is, his #4 is almost certainly actively being outclassed ;3

I ran him enough to know that I wasn't interested in using him more. I'm pretty certain I ran him on at least a few missions and did some testing after maxing him.

Nekros doesn't win anything here, and I wasn't even comparing to Nekros, but are you really going to tell me that a 90% damage reduction and aggro is better than being able to trigger a dozen or more ~10 second invincibility periods with the press of one button? And having to recast it every 30 seconds or so? Maybe even sooner because at some point (even in sorties) enemies can just one-shot your shadows even with max power strength? And are we even going to talk about the fact that you need very specific builds to achieve any sort of relevant EHP with Nekros?

You can't really convince me that it's better, I've used both for a while, and a Nekros is definitely not nearly as good at surviving stuff as a Wukong, not even if you were to use health conversion.

And I have no idea what's wrong with your aim, but Iron Jab works perfectly fine for me, sure Landslide is much more powerful, but it's still not a "lame CC" as you mentioned.

 

Anyway, the point was that Wukong isn't useless, surely no one is forcing you to use him, but telling me stuff that we both know isn't true for the sake of a stupid argument doesn't make you right.

Have a good day.