[WC] Lopata: Shadow. Detective. Bloodhound. - Evreyenn's WIP Sculpts - 1/30/2017

[Blakrana]

4 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

 

I downloaded the file (different phone at the time / wouldn't let me view it in a web page), and I think a hover tooltip with those color names (or something similar) would be great for colorblind and non-colorblind folks alike.

There are a number of UI changes that I'd like to see DE implement. This would be one of them.

It's a very rough thing, and part of the problem I find is that the software I use to 'designate' the colour names, has a very high tendency to just...be the same thing but with slight variation in tone. Pompadour Red comes up far too much.

Still...I'll have to get back to work on it at some point and from there could brainstorm 'names that aren't terrible yet remain informative'.

Speaking of colour...Route's Green/Red footprints might be another vector for a differing Symbol as well, just to reinforce the distinction. On certain tiles, especially Grineer and Derelict ones, I know it'd be difficult to pick out either due to the muted colour scheme they generally have. Whilst I'm considering Blue as something, that also runs into issues on Corpus tiles, being potentially lost in the steely tones or ice. Hmm...

What if, playing off the 'sort of' card aspect, the symbol for True/False Route would be 'Right way up' for True and 'Inverted' for False, with the colour to go with?

[Rhekemi]

30 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Know that feeling. _{^{Chrono and Aeon taken by every Time frame...}}

I'll have to remember to give your work a bit more of a run-down when I wake up...

For what it's worth, I consider Dust very well-rendered (compared to so many that are not) despite my aversion to time-frames. Just seems daunting to find a way to do a time 'frame in a fresh way, and do it "right". My unspoken rule is to not comment on time 'frames. 

And cool on feedback.

18 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

It's a very rough thing, and part of the problem I find is that the software I use to 'designate' the colour names, has a very high tendency to just...be the same thing but with slight variation in tone. Pompadour Red comes up far too much.

Still...I'll have to get back to work on it at some point and from there could brainstorm 'names that aren't terrible yet remain informative'.

Have you considered making it a bit open-source? (Getting some extra eyes from the community to name colors.) Might be able to focus on the HTML while they suggest names you can choose from. (Just as long as you remain project director, of sorts, to keep it on task.)

People generally want everyone to enjoy the game.

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Speaking of colour...Route's Green/Red footprints might be another vector for a differing Symbol as well, just to reinforce the distinction. On certain tiles, especially Grineer and Derelict ones, I know it'd be difficult to pick out either due to the muted colour scheme they generally have. Whilst I'm considering Blue as something, that also runs into issues on Corpus tiles, being potentially lost in the steely tones or ice. Hmm...

What if, playing off the 'sort of' card aspect, the symbol for True/False Route would be 'Right way up' for True and 'Inverted' for False, with the colour to go with?

Ah, good point. I think the inversion could work, or we go with shapes. True could have rounded footprints while False Route could have angular shapes or triangles. I mean, as long as it's a distinct / differentiated symbol for each Route, it works.

Hidden Route pulses so I think it could keep the basic shape since the others' behavior is static.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Blakrana]

6 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

Have you considered making it a bit open-source? (Getting some extra eyes from the community to name colors.) Might be able to focus on the HTML while they suggest names you can choose from. (Just as long as you remain project director, of sorts, to keep it on task.)

People generally want everyone to enjoy the game.

Admittedly, not as yet. I've got a friend who can do the HTML, I just need to put the time aside to input the Hex values so they can colour designate more cleanly. More tedious than anything admittedly...but if you want something done...Honestly, it fell way on the back burner and I really should return to working on it.

Though I do know that I'll need other people to actually name the colours in general, what with the 'I can't tell if this green or yellow etc' thing on my end. Labels help, but I'm not pretending that the software I've used is necessarily 100% accurate.

9 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

Ah, good point. I think the inversion could work, or we go with shapes. True could have rounded footprints while False Route could have angular shapes or triangles. I mean, as long as it's a distinct / differentiated symbol for each Route, it works.

Hidden Route pulses so I think it could keep the basic shape since the others' behavior is static.

Sounds feasible. So long as the difference is stark, be it shape or 'active/not active', then that should spare the 'Am I tracking or guiding?' confusion that colour alone can run into. Lockers give us a good example of it done well, in at least stark contrast in shape.

[Rhekemi]

On 11/6/2016 at 4:56 AM, Blakrana said:

Admittedly, not as yet. I've got a friend who can do the HTML, I just need to put the time aside to input the Hex values so they can colour designate more cleanly. More tedious than anything admittedly...but if you want something done...Honestly, it fell way on the back burner and I really should return to working on it.

Though I do know that I'll need other people to actually name the colours in general, what with the 'I can't tell if this green or yellow etc' thing on my end. Labels help, but I'm not pretending that the software I've used is necessarily 100% accurate.

Understood, and I hope I can help when the time comes for the public to take a look.

On 11/6/2016 at 4:56 AM, Blakrana said:

Sounds feasible. So long as the difference is stark, be it shape or 'active/not active', then that should spare the 'Am I tracking or guiding?' confusion that colour alone can run into. Lockers give us a good example of it done well, in at least stark contrast in shape.

I've made some changes based on this discussion to the kit. 

True: green rectangular footprints.

False: red oval-shaped footprints.

Hidden (for loot): gold diamond-shaped footprints.

Hidden (for operatives): purple triangular footprints. 

The PVP one only has one tracking state, so it can just be standard footprint shapes.

Thanks again for the catch.

[Blakrana]

7 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

True: green rectangular footprints.

False: red oval-shaped footprints.

Hidden (for loot): gold diamond-shaped footprints.

Hidden (for operatives): purple triangular footprints. 

The PVP one only has one tracking state, so it can just be standard footprint shapes.

Thanks again for the catch.

Sounds good, and no worries.

[Rhekemi]

On 11/10/2016 at 11:52 AM, Blakrana said:

Sounds good, and no worries.

Glad it works for you.

As for that lore I promised, it's still a way's off, everyone. 

Guessing TWW will affect it a little bit, but not much (doesn't change much of my vision for the story).

[Archwizard]

Argh, been slacking on giving that feedback I mentioned. No better time to start than the present...

A Tracking Warframe is... an interesting concept. However, on first look I fail to see a lot of use for True Route. Being able to track an enemy doesn't have a lot of applications you can't pull off with an Enemy Radar effect, especially if you have to have A) already found the target to cast the ability on them and B) let them go, without the expectation of being able to find them without the ability. The only times you'd need that kind of tracking highlight is if the target is some type of mission priority (where we already get markers for Capture and Assassination targets), or stealth-based enemy (which Warframe sorely lacks, aside from those who emit particle effects even while invisible, or who shrug off abilities anyway). Arguably the alertness reset is at least useful, but can be reasonably supplanted by stealth effects in any situation where it wouldn't be immediately reset anyway - which this concept has.
Now, False Route has some definite applications in stealth play, for leading enemies away from packs or objectives. Still, I can't help but feel Ivara's Noise Arrow provides a cheaper, broader-reaching and more intuitive approach to this, primarily due to its ability to lead multiple enemies away at once. Further, Enemy Entity is equally good at distracting or leading enemies away, alertness aside...

• Although I can definitely see some interesting applications for each in PVP. Using True Route to disable Stealth effects and False Route to force people to move a certain direction, or else they'll trigger a trap.

Definitely liking Shadow Hound - very unique, nearly a possession-like effect combined with a distraction effect like False Route. I might have concerns about it effectively giving you the ability to become invulnerable when focus-firing an enemy however...

I have some concerns over both Entity and Route each having Quiver-style swap effects - primarily, does our UI have the space or capability to hold more than one at once, and even if we did, would players be able to keep the two straight?
Also... what exactly is the point of Ally Entity? And what if you're on one of the Lua Crossfire tilesets, where everyone hates each other? What if you cast it while in a regular Crossfire tileset - will your "allies" attack it for looking like their enemy?

I'm confused as to the necessity of Cimmerian Form, since Shadow Hound already provides a stealth effect (or vice versa, if you're more attached to Cimmerian Form over Shadow Hound). Also, what are its major differences from Wukong's Cloud Walker - specifically, those that make it ultimate-worthy? Sure you can step out to melee attack or quickdraw on the enemy, but couldn't you simply deactivate it for a moment to do the same (and get your rifle back in the process)?

Edited November 15, 2016 by Archwizard

[Rhekemi]

 

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However, on first look I fail to see a lot of use for True Route. Being able to track an enemy doesn't have a lot of applications you can't pull off with an Enemy Radar effect, especially if you have to have A) already found the target to cast the ability on them and B) let them go, without the expectation of being able to find them without the ability.

Hey, thanks for stopping by. Any feedback is always appreciated.

I'll consider adding a mechanic to make it more useful as a solo ability. However, an important aspect to Lopata's abilities is synergy, and how using them in conjunction improves the individual abilities or gives them more utility.

An example of this is Loki's Decoy. Alone, and especially in higher tier content, Decoy isn't very good at drawing aggro and surviving that aggro for very long (you can camp the Decoy well, though), but it does give you some utility options when used in conjunction with other abilities (like Switch Teleport).

True Route still synergizes with any Entity, and can be used on allies (or ally objectives). Once augmented, the ability's also improved for loot and rescue target recovery.

That's a bit of utility that Enemy Radar (mods, auras, and abilities that share the mechanic) likely don't give us. 

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The only times you'd need that kind of tracking highlight is if the target is some type of mission priority (where we already get markers for Capture and Assassination targets), or stealth-based enemy (which Warframe sorely lacks, aside from those who emit particle effects even while invisible, or who shrug off abilities anyway). Arguably the alertness reset is at least useful, but can be reasonably supplanted by stealth effects in any situation where it wouldn't be immediately reset anyway - which this concept has.

Good points. However, reiterating the point above, True Route isn't only used on Enemies--it can be used on Entities, and ally objectives.

I'll still think about ways to improve it without overpowering it.

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Now, False Route has some definite applications in stealth play, for leading enemies away from packs or objectives. Still, I can't help but feel Ivara's Noise Arrow provides a cheaper, broader-reaching and more intuitive approach to this, primarily due to its ability to lead multiple enemies away at once.

Looking through any warframe's abilities, we'll find similar abilities. The point is well taken, but doesn't change that fact. That said, Ivara's Noise Arrow and (I think Titania's lantern? I haven't built her), both give us different stealth play options instead of "turn invisible". More stealth options that use different mechanics (from "turn invisible") are rare right now.

With regards to the energy cost, numbers can easily be tweaked up or down, so that's neither here nor there.

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• Although I can definitely see some interesting applications for each in PVP. Using True Route to disable Stealth effects and False Route to force people to move a certain direction, or else they'll trigger a trap.

False Route's PVP form is Forgotten Route (freezes an enemy in place). Forcing an enemy to move where they don't want to / controlling your enemy's movement would seem...rather salt-inducing, maybe. Not sure how well that would go over.

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I have some concerns over both Entity and Route each having Quiver-style swap effects - primarily, does our UI have the space or capability to hold more than one at once, and even if we did, would players be able to keep the two straight?

Both Ivara and Vauban have single abilities with 4 options. Lopata simply splits those 4 over 2 abilities. I think it'd actually be easier to remember. Furthermore, if we can manage a step sequencer (once we get the music 'frame), I'm sure we could manage Lopata's ability toggle.

Another reason I like using the mechanic is due to having designed it before we learned of Ivara's abilities. I built on a concept created by another member. Detailed here.

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Also... what exactly is the point of Ally Entity?

Keeping in mind Lopata grants the Tenno multiple stealth options, it expands on that theme allowing you to use True Route on your own Ally (once it's following a pack of tileset enemies). 

Furthermore, casting any Entity (Ally or Enemy) provides another momentary stealth buff (speed boost, stun, and a quick dip into Cimmerian Form) to Lopata giving her even more ways to evade tight crowds in a pinch and regroup.

Ally's augment is also quite powerful (so much so I felt I shouldn't include it in the base ability).

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And what if you're on one of the Lua Crossfire tilesets, where everyone hates each other?

Lopata would create Infested or Corrupted Entities, since there are no Infested on Lua, or Corrupted (I think?). 

Even in a fissure mission, there's always an odd faction out. That's the beauty of the ability.

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What if you cast it while in a regular Crossfire tileset - will your "allies" attack it for looking like their enemy?

Not at all. DE has demonstrated this principle already. I've been in Infested tiles (ODD), and cast my Ancient Healer, Corrupted Lancer, Tenno, Shield Osprey, and Grineer Roller Eximus specters. They never attack each other, or the Ancient Healer despite it belonging to the Infested faction (the current enemy). Same goes for my Infested Charger.

That said, I have a sneaking suspicion that this 'frame isn't hound enough for many players. It's deliberately subtle. What I've considered is maybe making each Entity take the form of a "hound-like" unit (quadruped). 

Corpus: Hyenna

Infested: Charger

Grineer: Drahk

Corrupted: Charger 

Sentient: Sentient Unit (unchanged).

Then I could give each variant unique stats and abilities. 

Just something I'm mulling over.

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I'm confused as to the necessity of Cimmerian Form, since Shadow Hound already provides a stealth effect (or vice versa, if you're more attached to Cimmerian Form over Shadow Hound).

I'd have to define "necessity"  on two levels:

• Lore/story justification
• Mechanical and gameplay justification

On the former, it fits nicely into Lopata's role as a strike-breaking enforcer (and reflects her Pinkerton, Detective, and Batman influences--all of which require proficiency in combat, hand to hand and with weapons). Her warframe existed in a dark, violent world, and brutality is simply another tool in her arsenal. She isn't just a stealth 'frame, or a tracker. (Just as Ivara, for example, is more than she appears: stealth 'frame, hunter, Robin Hood, poison dart frogs). Her lore will delve into this more once I get time to write out the conceptualized story, but it's critical to her role in WF's world (at that point in time).

In that light, I'd like to pivot to the latter: gameplay, mechanics, and abilities balance justification. Cimmerian Form isn't about stealth (as enemies are alerted as soon as you attack). The Tenno isn't meant to choose a better stealth ability over Cimmerian Form. CF is costly, momentary invulnerability and rewarding, force multiplying, critical damage boosts if you can be accurate and land your shots and combos.

Cimmerian Form is Lopata's unique offensive ability that uses shadows not to harm (as is so often expected for any shadow / darkness 'frame) but to evade. This theme was important to me when creating her. Like a detective out of some noir, she uses shadows to her advantage to outwit, outsmart and outlast her enemies. (Also not unlike Batman, another influence on her.)

Lastly, like many other warframe's, her ultimate is also her signature offensive ability.

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Also, what are its major differences from Wukong's Cloud Walker - specifically, those that make it ultimate-worthy?

I haven't actually used Wukong (he's built, but I haven't put any miles on him) as I haven't had the time. I don't feel qualified to answer that question right now (I'm unaware of how his attacks work during Cloud Walker). That said, if you'd like to point out how Wukong's Cloud Walker is too similar to Cimmerian Form, feel free to elaborate and I'll see if I can adjust Lopata accordingly.

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Sure you can step out to melee attack or quickdraw on the enemy, but couldn't you simply deactivate it for a moment to do the same (and get your rifle back in the process)?

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure how this is a valid point or question. When using any other warframe's ultimate ability, we lose access to several weapons in our arsenal, and gain access to unique ones to that warframe. Excalibur, Ivara, Mesa, Titania, Ash are just a few examples. These weapons have conditions (like losing access to primaries, or other weapons), and are buffed by specific weapons (melee, secondary, primary).

Cimmerian Form is well within those boundaries. Deactivating CF would disable both her unique melee combos, and her custom Lato, as it would Excalibur's Exalted Blade, or Ivara's Artemis Bow.

I don't know if I missed anything, but thanks again for the feedback.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Archwizard]

14 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Both Ivara and Vauban have single abilities with 4 options. Lopata simply splits those 4 over 2 abilities. I think it'd actually be easier to remember. Furthermore, if we can manage a step sequencer (once we get the music 'frame), I'm sure we could manage Lopata's ability toggle.

Which was what my main concern was. You have twice as many spinning dials; the fact that they have half as many options is irrelevant, since the unused options are smaller and transparent. Meanwhile, you have twice as many of the opaque icons on the interface, which increases clutter. Simultaneously, someone may attempt to spin one dial and end up spinning the other, which could lead to confusion when the effect they're switching doesn't change, or when they aren't looking at that corner but still hear the dial sound when they tap a button.
Little things, but important to keeping the frame intuitive.

We're not actually sure how the Step Sequencer is expected to work yet. I wouldn't be surprised if we can only adjust it outside of missions (like with Chroma's energy), given that it may take time to set up a reasonable melody, which you don't have in-combat.

14 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

False Route's PVP form is Forgotten Route (freezes an enemy in place). Forcing an enemy to move where they don't want to / controlling your enemy's movement would seem...rather salt-inducing, maybe. Not sure how well that would go over.

Heh, I figured half the point of PVP abilities and augments was to make people just a little salty. Disruption, traps, knockdowns, stealing other people's energy...

14 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Cimmerian Form isn't about stealth (as enemies are alerted as soon as you attack).

I mean... enemies can still be alerted to your presence while you're in Invisibility if your attack didn't kill them, or Prowl if your attack was too noisy. I would still call them stealth-aids at minimum, much as I would say the same of Undertow, Cloud Walker or, in this case, Cimmerian Form.

14 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I haven't actually used Wukong (he's built, but I haven't put any miles on him) as I haven't had the time. I don't feel qualified to answer that question right now (I'm unaware of how his attacks work during Cloud Walker). That said, if you'd like to point out how Wukong's Cloud Walker is too similar to Cimmerian Form, feel free to elaborate and I'll see if I can adjust Lopata accordingly.

Cloud Walker turns Wukong into a gust of wind, making him invulnerable, invisible and able to fly, but disables Wukong's attacks until disabled (he can disable it to attack again and switch it back on, especially since he has extended combo duration, which is part of why I asked the followup). While Cimmerian Form doesn't mention whether you can fly while active, the actual Shadow form bears noteworthy similarities.

14 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure how this is a valid point or question. When using any other warframe's ultimate ability, we lose access to several weapons in our arsenal, and gain access to unique ones to that warframe. Excalibur, Ivara, Mesa, Titania, Ash are just a few examples. These weapons have conditions (like losing access to primaries, or other weapons), and are buffed by specific weapons (melee, secondary, primary).

Cimmerian Form is well within those boundaries. Deactivating CF would disable both her unique melee combos, and her custom Lato, as it would Excalibur's Exalted Blade, or Ivara's Artemis Bow.

Originally I would've responded that Cimmerian Form appears to momentarily disable itself as part of its effects anyway...

However, I hadn't seen that she got a custom melee weapon and pistol when she drops out of cloud form.
It might be an idea to add that to the ability description for clarity. Instead of "In Cimmerian Form she cannot harm enemies, and primary weapon fire is disabled", perhaps something more like "While active, her weapons are replaced with a custom pistol and knuckledusters, but weapon attacks will momentarily take her out of her incorporeal form."

Actually, while we're going on about Batman and the like, I'm suddenly imagining this frame stringing enemies up and hanging them upside-down from the ceiling...

Edited November 16, 2016 by Archwizard

[Rhekemi]

5 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Which was what my main concern was. You have twice as many spinning dials; the fact that they have half as many options is irrelevant, since the unused options are smaller and transparent. Meanwhile, you have twice as many of the opaque icons on the interface, which increases clutter. Simultaneously, someone may attempt to spin one dial and end up spinning the other, which could lead to confusion when the effect they're switching doesn't change, or when they aren't looking at that corner but still hear the dial sound when they tap a button.
Little things, but important to keeping the frame intuitive.

We're not actually sure how the Step Sequencer is expected to work yet. I wouldn't be surprised if we can only adjust it outside of missions (like with Chroma's energy), given that it may take time to set up a reasonable melody, which you don't have in-combat.

Noted, though I'm still not very convinced players will find themselves tripping over the mechanic. Mostly because it already exists.

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I mean... enemies can still be alerted to your presence while you're in Invisibility if your attack didn't kill them, or Prowl if your attack was too noisy. I would still call them stealth-aids at minimum, much as I would say the same of Undertow, Cloud Walker or, in this case, Cimmerian Form.

Point taken, but as outlined in the other post, CF is an aggressive/primarily offensive ability. Undertow and Cloud Walker are not. CF can be seen as a stealth ability, but that's not the emphasis, primary purpose, or its role in her kit. If one just uses Lopata's Cimmerian Form for stealth, it's a costly and poorer form of stealth (than other abilities Lopata has) precisely because that's not it's purpose. 

From her inception, I deliberately tried to discourage potential builds for staying hidden and remain in stealth 24/7. Initially, it drained health and energy--that's how clear I wanted to be that CF isn't a stealth ability, but a momentary, aggressive, damage multiplying ultimate. (But that was a terrible idea that punishes players. So I have to find another way to address the energy drain, maybe just increasing it by a little bit more, or using a system like Valkyr's Hysteria post-rework.)

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Cloud Walker turns Wukong into a gust of wind, making him invulnerable, invisible and able to fly, but disables Wukong's attacks until disabled (he can disable it to attack again and switch it back on, especially since he has extended combo duration, which is part of why I asked the followup). While Cimmerian Form doesn't mention whether you can fly while active, the actual Shadow form bears noteworthy similarities.

Thanks. Seems like the similarities are in form, but not in function. 

Wukong: turns into a cloud

• flight
• stealth/invisibility
• invulnerability
• cannot attack without disabling CW
• ability has zero offensive capabilities

Lopata: becomes shadow

• cannot fly (uses her sprint speed by default)
• stealth/invisibility on cast, but not once you attack (and as it is an offensive ability, you'll be attacking a lot). Though, after this feedback session, I don't immediately see why her ultimate should support stealth at all--I'm considering removing the stealth of this one entirely.
• invulnerability
• can attack without disabling CF (though it auto-disables like Ivara's Prowl, but also unlike it since silenced weapons do not break Prowl)
• ability has two unique offense capabilities (both of which break CF unlike Artemis Bow or silenced weapons during Prowl)

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Originally I would've responded that Cimmerian Form appears to momentarily disable itself as part of its effects anyway...

However, I hadn't seen that she got a custom melee weapon and pistol when she drops out of cloud form.

Ah, I see. I often wonder how many overlook details hidden in the notes/spoilers.

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It might be an idea to add that to the ability description for clarity. Instead of "In Cimmerian Form she cannot harm enemies, and primary weapon fire is disabled", perhaps something more like "While active, her weapons are replaced with a custom pistol and knuckledusters, but weapon attacks will momentarily take her out of her incorporeal form."

That's true. I'll update it soon.

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Actually, while we're going on about Batman and the like, I'm suddenly imagining this frame stringing enemies up and hanging them upside-down from the ceiling...

I like it, and that would be cool, but I think Titania does something similar. Without making it different, folks would cry foul. (I really need to use Wukong and finish Titania's quest.)

Maybe a Shadow Trap of some sort. In an augment, Cimmerian Form could lay Shadow Lines upon cast (traps) that spread out (in a reasonable pattern with Lopata at the center of it) for every enemy (all of them alerted) in an X radius. Once tripped, X # enemies are snagged, hung upside-down at ground level from the Shadow Lines (basically just a few feet off the floor). 

I just have to think of some buff or mechanic they provide while hung. Options:

• Dizziness and dramatically reduced accuracy for 10 - 15 seconds after being hung.
• Or enemies draw a different kind of aggro: their allies in the vicinity rush to their aid to investigate, then try to cut them down. Darkness leeches from the hung enemies and slows their comrades permanently by X%.

Both of these ideas are just random, but my thinking is the Batman-hanging style ability would work as CC, instead of offense (and CF would have to lose some of its offensive power to justify the augment, maybe).

If not on CF, I have to think of where to add the feature.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Rhekemi]

Current artwork WIP by @Evreyenn :

[Rhekemi]

Added a new sketch by @Evreyenn . Lopata works out. 

[Blakrana]

Art designs look good so far, particularly like the "spade head" hat (least it looks like a spade head) and trenchcoat. Good 'confident' body language over all, and very nice employment of tone.

Tangent: not sure if it's just me but the style reminds me of Digimon somewhat, namely Antylamon and Crescemon. Not a criticism, just surprised at the connection my brain's made. _{I should really get back to DW Dawn sometime...}

[Rhekemi]

On 12/15/2016 at 0:35 PM, Blakrana said:

Art designs look good so far, particularly like the "spade head" hat (least it looks like a spade head) and trenchcoat. Good 'confident' body language over all, and very nice employment of tone.

Tangent: not sure if it's just me but the style reminds me of Digimon somewhat, namely Antylamon and Crescemon. Not a criticism, just surprised at the connection my brain's made. _{I should really get back to DW Dawn sometime...}

Thanks, I'll ask Evreyenn if she was at all influenced by Digimon. I do really like the helmet and coat, too.

Lopata's artist has also fooled around with some coloring options a bit, I'll add them to the first post.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Rhekemi]

On 12/15/2016 at 0:35 PM, Blakrana said:

Tangent: not sure if it's just me but the style reminds me of Digimon somewhat, namely Antylamon and Crescemon. Not a criticism, just surprised at the connection my brain's made. _{I should really get back to DW Dawn sometime...}

No, Evreyenn wasn't influenced by Digimon. :)

Incidentally, I confused her showing me colorable options with possible color schemes. She did Lopata up in Mirage's colors and made a dark color scheme. Those are now on the first post as well. (Though I liked the colorable options as schemes, too.)

Edited December 20, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Unus]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

No, Evreyenn wasn't influenced by Digimon. :)

Incidentally, I confused her showing me colorable options with possible color schemes. She did Lopata up in Mirage's colors and made a dark color scheme. Those are now on the first post as well. (Though I liked the colorable options as schemes, too.)

   Huh, did she make that page herself as well? If so, your in good hands.

[Blakrana]

5 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

No, Evreyenn wasn't influenced by Digimon. :)

Incidentally, I confused her showing me colorable options with possible color schemes. She did Lopata up in Mirage's colors and made a dark color scheme. Those are now on the first post as well. (Though I liked the colorable options as schemes, too.)

Fair does. Suppose just one of those things when it comes to art, our responses being coloured by our biases and experiences for where we join things together.

As for colour schemes, always nice to have variety.

[Rhekemi]

On 12/20/2016 at 8:49 AM, Unus said:

   Huh, did she make that page herself as well? If so, your in good hands.

Yes. And I know. This is why I always suggest concept creators not give up on directly asking an artist for help. The worst that can happen is they can say no, or you can both hate each other / nearly kill each other in the collaboration process.

On 12/20/2016 at 0:37 PM, Blakrana said:

Fair does. Suppose just one of those things when it comes to art, our responses being coloured by our biases and experiences for where we join things together.

As for colour schemes, always nice to have variety.

True on both counts.

[Unus]

27 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

Yes. And I know. This is why I always suggest concept creators not give up on directly asking an artist for help. The worst that can happen is they can say no, or you can both hate each other / nearly kill each other in the collaboration process.

True on both counts.

Woweezowee! I'd love to ask her to make a design for my Feynman frame or, barring that, one of my enemy concepts. Gotta feeling I'd just be peatering her though, what with the beauty and art and careful construction of what she likes anyway. Gratz on hitting an artistic goldmine and gratz to her for having several talented bones in her body!

[blazeshadow44]

at first i thought i was looking at nezha, some of the muscle formation looked like nezha and whatnot, but realized this was totally different.  i like this one, it seems it would be fun and challenging to use imo.  your design is really good as well.

 

[Rhekemi]

12 hours ago, blazeshadow44 said:

at first i thought i was looking at nezha, some of the muscle formation looked like nezha and whatnot, but realized this was totally different.  i like this one, it seems it would be fun and challenging to use imo.  your design is really good as well.

Thank you. Glad the mechanics seem fun and a challenge. :)

I suppose I'm too close to the concept (and knew she was female) so I didn't immediately see how she looked like Nezha, but I can see how she could look more male on first glance.

The art is @Evreyenn 's, though I'm involved with suggestions.

[Evreyenn]

Hi, I made a sculpt based off my newest picture, because I couldn't figure out how to do the back of the arms and needed the 3D as a visual help.

I linked the tumblr post to the picture; there is a view of her back (and my mother said she looks very dude-ish, dunno what to do about that) where I just copied the design of the arm vents and put it on her shoulderblades, because I thought that you'd have to keep mobility and clipping in mind and not have them cover too much of her back.

She might want to actually move her arms and such, right?

[Rhekemi]

On 1/26/2017 at 10:09 PM, Evreyenn said:

Hi, I made a sculpt based off my newest picture, because I couldn't figure out how to do the back of the arms and needed the 3D as a visual help.

I linked the tumblr post to the picture; there is a view of her back (and my mother said she looks very dude-ish, dunno what to do about that) where I just copied the design of the arm vents and put it on her shoulderblades, because I thought that you'd have to keep mobility and clipping in mind and not have them cover too much of her back.

She might want to actually move her arms and such, right?

Sclupt looks good so far!

I think the back works (regarding her shoulders), and movement would be ideal. :)

That said, your mom makes the second person to say she looks like a guy. Which pic did she  comment on? Butt shot or front view? (Did you ask her why she thought so? Any insight would be good.) I mean, I'm not sure what to change to fix that, but I kind of agree from behind I wouldn't know Lopata was a female 'frame in that butt shot.  Part of it is her build, part of it is her posture. 

I'd have to look at your original sketches again, but I do think in those she had wider hips and a though the bust was the same, in the first sculpts and her artwork it was more angled to suggest she was female.

Let me get at you with a PM.

[Unus]

   Geezus Mr. Rhek, how did you stumble across talent like this anyway? Applause to the both of you! Hope you paid good money for it.

[Evreyenn]

8 hours ago, Unus said:

   Geezus Mr. Rhek, how did you stumble across talent like this anyway? Applause to the both of you! Hope you paid good money for it.

I got paid in wishlist items, but I take a lot of time with the design and learn using the programs I use, so I agreed to do it for (somewhat) free. And since I usually don't design warframes, I was not sure how satisfying it would be when I agreed to do it.

But I guess it's not so bad, huh?