Opinions and thoughts on Rhino

[CorbenikTheRebirth]

Hey everybody, new to the forums but not to the game.

Wanted to get opinions and thoughts on my favorite frame.

I've used rhino basically since it existed and it has been my favorite frame. Personally I do think it is just a bad frame, it makes for bad habits, and in the late game doesn't contribute much. However I still love it and want it to be amazing, so I tried making a build that can do Sorties, and trials, and be a solid contributor. Now I might have Rosey red glasses on and ignoring the truth, so I want some serious thoughts and also criticism, and if deserved, praise that it actually works.

Before I go into the build I wanted to talked about my issues with Rhino. Main one I see, which I'm confident I grew out of was the over cockyness of iron skin in the early game and mid game. People feel invincible and don't learn how to dodge, take cover, and utilize the mechanics of the game to survive. This is easy to remedy though. Next off, Roar (or as I callem War Rhinos) who utilize duration and strength usually to make rhino roar a tool for the team. Tying this into the issue of what he does for the team, the roar, even modded properly, is pretty weak. Banshee and nova can do more of that, with a lot of other synergy tools so I feel roar just falls off once you approach late game. Also, ability cancelers just make most rhinos shut up, your iron got canceled, you weren't paying attention and you died. Happens a lot haha. So I wanted to create a build that could address all of this issues and make rhino a great frame.

So now the build, Starting with mods. (NOTE: this build is centered on not just mods, but the gear, the companion, and the arcanes to bring it all together, it is nothing with that all around synergy.)

Aura: Stand United.    Honestly a bad aura mod , but it does help him the most and it can make an impact on other frames, and there really isn't another mod out there that contributes whole heartedly to this build's idea. (In my mind at least)

Exilus: Coaction Drift    For stand united yes, but also for you teams, more energy regen and weapon damage is also a plus and more armor to an extent is always nice.

Base (all maxed): Armored Agility, Steel Fiber, Vitality, Redirection, Primed Flow, Blind rage, transient fortitude, iron shrapnel. 

THATS RIGHT ITS AN IRON SKIN BUILD, oh lord have mercy. "Well it obviously not a team build then" 

Hold your horses, there was thought here I swear, which we'll go over after build.

Spoiler

https://goo.gl/NHknTN

^ Link to the build if you like to see with pictures, note that stand uninted is not on that site so it is rejuvenation there as a place holder.

Weapons:

Primary: Tigris Prime/Vaykor Hek/Boar Prime   (each one is a different damage archetype, side note, this have maxed primed mods, event mods for each damage type, and corrupted annnnd event status element mods to fit into which ever enemy is being fought) These, aside from vaykor hek, don't contribute to the build other than, look I do deal a lot of damage.

Secondary: Vaykor Marelok/Pox        This is huge contributor to the build (pox is usually only taken if vaykor Hek is), the justice ability of vaykor is great, bonus armor and healing, but we'll get into the details of how it fits after.

Melee: Rakta Dark dagger    Yup no variance, huge core of the build (I NEED IT OK!)

Companion: Wrym Prime/ Carrier Prime (<-pretty rare choice):  Wrym has the wonderful crowd dispersion, and when you are charging head first into a large crowd more cc is great and helps rhino perform his due diligence even more

Process: Step 1super easy peasy 70+ energy iron skin go!Good now we are mediocre rhino. Now time for us to shine. Rhino kit and design is to be the frame that charges in, pulls aggro and ccs hard to disrupt the enemy and let the squishes come in and clean house, but late game, your iron skin is weak so you'll charge and die. Requires a little set up, but let's mitigate this. First off, utilize rakta dark dagger (who cares if they resist radiation, you can still trigger its passives.) and build up an over shield cache. Now you got some chunky shields for when your iron does go down, you arent dead, probably won't even touch your normal shields. Next whip out your secondary (maybe primary) and start working up that justice passive, you'll deal damage, marelok has great status and crit, and can be built for any scenario as a great damage dealer, when just is about to pop, you rhino charge in, laying in some cc, finish off just. Utilize your new augment, recast to break your iron skin, deal good damge and even knock with some light cc and recast your iron skin. Just got a really good armor increase, now you have an much more powerful iron skin AND your in heart of the crowd, let's utilize that aggro and that built up iron skin and start hitting hard with some more charges, combo it for low energy and its guaranteed knock around.

Finally on the helmet we are rocking a complete set of Arcane Guardian, your overshields get shot, you might get extra armor oi boi. And on the syndana Arcane agility full set, also on damaged. I know these arcanes are a little on the lower side, but I did personally feel they provided good synergy but I may be wrong, still a little new to the arcanes.

 

So that's the core of it, dagger for overshield caches for when it gets canceled or breaks, justice ability for increased armor and healing, arcanes to enhance more armor and also mobility to get clear and redo your tanky build up and mods the enable iron skin because iron skin enables all of your other abilities to be used efficiently<---- thats the core idea of all of this. SO, let me know what you think, hate, love, and feel needs to changed or stroke my ego and say "damn son, that's best damn rhino I've ever seen." 

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, Azrael said:

If this is true, then parkour mods are still better for me (and many like me) unless I am using volt's speed buff. Most of the speed I get from rolling is from doing it in between parkour maneuvers, or during them, and not while sprinting. I almost never just sprint. Instead I bullet jump, then double jump and roll at basically the same time, for a massive speed boost. Or I roll coming out of a slide or bullet jump. Or I roll around a corner then bullet jump. If I want to go a really long way, I may bullet juimp, double jump, aimglide, then roll while aimgliding. None of these seem like they may be helped by Rush, while they will all be helped immensely by a parkour mod. I'll probably experiment a bit with it, just to make sure. But frankly I'm not going to start just sprinting around because of how slow it is, even with Rush. I've stayed ahead of people using Rush while I was using no speed mods at all, I was just parkouring.

I'll take a further look, though. It may be that I'm mistaken about how it works, and rolling during parkour maneuvers might actually benefit from Rush. I'll certain;y want to know about it if that's the case.

 

I went frame by frame in a video editor to get the start and finish times.

Rhino No Rush 1.112 - 8.239 = 7.127
Rhino Rush 1.032 - 7.310 = 6.278
Nyx No Rush 37.558 - 45.036 = 7.478
Nyx Rush 37.618 - 44.148 = 6.53

I set a Macro of 0.02s

 

it's not really about Rush mod being faster than a Parkour mod. It's about Rush being faster / fast as not using one with Bullet Jump.

For me, Rush might as well say %Speed = Bullet Jump +75% Mitigation  + Immune to CC.

I roll through hordes of lvl 100+ enemies without a care in the world because I know they're not going to hurt me and can't stop me from moving. Rolling straight through appose to jumping up and over or around them. It's more of a play style comparison than a mod for mod comparison.

EDIT: I recently tested Rending Turn against Rush on Nyx and Rush was 0.4s faster. You're welcome to test Lightning Dash if you want. I'm not really up to spending 100p in Endo for a 6% difference.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Xzorn

[Azrael]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Rhino No Rush 1.112 - 8.239 = 7.127
Rhino Rush 1.032 - 7.310 = 6.278
Nyx No Rush 37.558 - 45.036 = 7.478
Nyx Rush 37.618 - 44.148 = 6.53

I'll tell you one thing, you put a lot of work into this, more than I did certainly. +1 for that, at very least. I certainly see that rush seems to help, although it seems like it's more about roll keeping momentum than it is an actual interaction between rush and rolling. The main reason I believe this is that Rush clearly has no effect on rolling when there is no momentum available. My roll key is the same as my sprint key, so I have to turn off sprint for a fraction of a second in order to roll, which means that it's not about "activating" Rush so much as it is having momentum.

I still wholeheartedly believe that parkouring with a parkour mod is significantly faster than rolling with Rush, but I see your point about immunity to knockdown and DR. I'll keep that playstyle in mind. Perhaps just running and spamming roll is a good alternative to parkour at high levels. One point I'd like to make, though, is that parkour reduces enemy accuracy, while sprinting does not.

 

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

EDIT: I recently tested Rending Turn against Rush on Nyx and Rush was 0.4s faster. You're welcome to test Lightning Dash if you want. I'm not really up to spending 100p in Endo for a 6% difference.

I was actually going to ask you to run this test.  :)

That's an interesting result, although .4 seconds is small enough that it could be random, or from other factors. Also it's not very valid to compare to rending turn, because it's actually less effective than mobilize. Rending is 18% while mobilize is 20%, and mobilize has 4 less drain. I'll see about testing my maxed toxic flight, but I can't do macros on this mouse (for strange and complex reasons).

Still, you make a good point about CC and DR while rolling. Even if a maxed toxic flight is slightly faster than Rush, Rush is still a valid mod for that movement style.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Azrael

[CorbenikTheRebirth]

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

don't be tricked by the outdated Players that rely on maximum Power Strength to try and carry them - Ironclad Charge is much better for those looking to try and be 'the wall' with Iron Skin.

That's the reason i posted this, I am that outdated player XD.

Thanks everyone for your input, I'm reworking the build now, working in ironclad charge, removing vitality and redirection and possibly transient fortified for duration and also range, we'll play around with idea and see how it goes. Thank you for all your input. 

[Gelkor]

18 hours ago, CorbenikTheRebirth said:

Base (all maxed): Armored Agility, Steel Fiber, Vitality, Redirection, Primed Flow, Blind rage, transient fortitude, iron shrapnel. 

THATS RIGHT ITS AN IRON SKIN BUILD, oh lord have mercy. "Well it obviously not a team build then" 

It's not an Iron Skin Build without Ironclad Charge.

My take:

Spoiler

 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Gelkor

[CorbenikTheRebirth]

2 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

It's not an Iron Skin Build without Ironclad Charge.

I'm gathering that now, just to say i was used too my abilities being apart of my mod list with no augments, so i didn't check them out much. Looking into it now i see the value of it.

Spoiler

9 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

I went frame by frame in a video editor to get the start and finish times.

Rhino No Rush 1.112 - 8.239 = 7.127
Rhino Rush 1.032 - 7.310 = 6.278
Nyx No Rush 37.558 - 45.036 = 7.478
Nyx Rush 37.618 - 44.148 = 6.53

I set a Macro of 0.02s

 

it's not really about Rush mod being faster than a Parkour mod. It's about Rush being faster / fast as not using one with Bullet Jump.

For me, Rush might as well say %Speed = Bullet Jump +75% Mitigation  + Immune to CC.

I roll through hordes of lvl 100+ enemies without a care in the world because I know they're not going to hurt me and can't stop me from moving. Rolling straight through appose to jumping up and over or around them. It's more of a play style comparison than a mod for mod comparison.

EDIT: I recently tested Rending Turn against Rush on Nyx and Rush was 0.4s faster. You're welcome to test Lightning Dash if you want. I'm not really up to spending 100p in Endo for a 6% difference.

 

 That was extremely interesting, as well as Azrael's too, I'm interested to try out both theories and see which fits my playstyle. Plus one for that for that testing

[Gelkor]

6 minutes ago, CorbenikTheRebirth said:

I'm gathering that now, just to say i was used too my abilities being apart of my mod list with no augments, so i didn't check them out much. Looking into it now i see the value of it.

Really, my only problem with Rhino's mini-rework is that it basically made Ironclad Charge mandatory. They gave Rhino Charge a weird synergy with Rhino Stomp, for like, no reason, it doesn't serve a purpose, and then Ironclad Charge makes AMAZING synergy for Rhino Charge and it's like "Make that the baseline skill interaction, and make the 'Damage to Rhino Stomped Targets' thing the augment."