Why Are People Tolerating The Fact That Prime Variants Are Direct Upgrades To Their Counterparts?

[Solaurus]

This topic is fail. Prime weapons not hard to get? Took me several Void runs, more then 50 I'm sure, to just get the blade of the reaper. I cant find the receiver after days of farming. I had the latron before the prime version came out. Did I go on the forums and rant? No. When you play Epic Fantasy Anime Sword Quest and get the Sword of Enders, do you whine that it is better then your default sword? Maybe the point of a PRIME version of a weapon is to be a direct upgrade of the original. However i think the devs should have made the Blueprint for the weps the drops instead of having to find parts. It should have been using the original wep with the 10 orokin cells. If you put a potato into Latron before the prime came out then big whoop. Use the regular one as its not even that big of a buff. It is literally a dollar or a bit less for a potato. You're not exactly being thrown into the jaws of debt here, and if you do spend money on Warframe enough to be in debt, then you have other problems to figure out.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Solaurus

[MJ12]

I think the best way to make weapons (for ANY game) is sidegrade, so it's more about personal preference.

 

Imagine for every weapon, there are 100pts the devs can use. This would mean that nothing is flat out "better", just different. 

 

Personally I think the "prime versions" should just be "different" rather than better, so more damage, slower speed .

 

The problem the OP is describing is what happens when one weapon is better in every way than another, that makes the first one pointless.

 

This is perfectly acceptable if all weapons are equally easy to get. Until then, weapons which take longer to get should be better in some way because otherwise what's the point of grinding for them? So when I can buy the Latron Prime or Supra or Gorgon or Ogris for 4000 credits I'll agree with you.

[Phoenix86]

@OP: because it's part of the game... new stuff come out and they are, generally, better than previous staff for a very simple reason: keep the game alive, feed players with new objectives.

 

If the Latron Prime wasnt better than the Latron who the hell would have farm/build it? none. (maybe just a few fans)

 

And this situation is perfectly normal and equal in all the games! not just warframe, so please...

[Venarge]

Could we just let this thread die. I mean. OP doesnt even participate on this discussion anymore. He just started this rant without any real point. It would be the best to just let this thread disappear

[theammostore]

Could we just let this thread die. I mean. OP doesnt even participate on this discussion anymore. He just started this rant without any real point. It would be the best to just let this thread disappear

Never!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay yes please...

[SnokyoDrift]

More relevant than ever.

 

edit: get out of this thread if you think the Primes are hard to obtain. They can be obtained with zero skill and excess time, which suits the farmers and grinders far more than the skilled players.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Tryysaeder

[Raptros]

 

 

edit: If you think that obtaining the Prime weapons is hard work after the defence table reward patch, you are not mature or skilled enough for this thread and your posts are deemed irrelevant.

 

Ha nice, I couldn't care less about what the rest said. Nice to know you'd like to exclude peoples opinions yo.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Raptros

[BoneBite]

I've seen a few posts similar to this one, imo, you're just complaining that there are now better versions of weapons you've probably upgraded heavily, and you feel like you've wasted that investment; this game is growing, therefore, new content will be added eventually, you'd have to see that one day newer content would be better than the older content, besides, prime equipment isn't easy to get, everyone has to grind for it 

[Niryco]

Sure, with warframes there's literally no difference other than the extra polarity slot, but all Prime weapons outperform the normal versions. The former benefit can be fixed with a single forma, while the latter can never achieve the same end-state potential with any amount of modding.

 

This opens the future up for a scenario where a person has invested quite a bit of platinum on a weapon, only for a Prime version to come out that has greater potential than the original weapon in every single way. With current weapons, the improvement is not small by any stretch of the imagination. The Latron Prime has 12.5% more damage and 33.3% more critical chance, which can be translated to a significant amount of mod levels.

 

There's nothing to justify the increase. They are not difficult to obtain, they are not earned through skill, achievement or hard work, and they have no downsides whatsoever.

 

The introduction of Prime weapons turns their predecessor into "mastery experience only", which is a sad, sad state to have, especially when 70+% of weapons are already in this category. This has the side effect of making mastery grind absolutely abhorrent and deathly boring, turning mastery rank into a badge that says "I have the sanity to level these pieces of junk".

 

Hell, there's no MONEY involved in introducing more Prime weapons, so all they would create is annoyed owners of redundant gear whose investment is now overshadowed. Simply put, there's no reason for them to be straight upgrades of existing weapons.

 

Let's say you have a Latron Prime and you've put a potato on it, as well as used a few forma to add polarities. They then introduce a Latron Double Prime which has 51 damage and 15% chance to crit. How overjoyed you must be!

 

edit: If you think that obtaining the Prime weapons is hard work after the defence table reward patch, you are not mature or skilled enough for this thread and your posts are deemed irrelevant.

Overall prime weapons are not 100% direct upgrades. They still face some downsides to balance their overall power creep. I guess the reason we can live with this because simply there is hardly any progression once you have market weapons.

 

The only direction is dojo weapons, but having void prime weapons, players can decide which path in pursuit to get items that are direct upgrades to their existing items. If prime items are all side-grades than overall less people will be compelled to farm it since dojo weapons would be the only way to go.

 

So yes there must be direct upgrades in guns, however the primes need a mastery requirement to use so as to prevent starters rushing to use these prime weapons. All prime weapons should be atleast rank 6 of the user to be allowed to use it, so atleast players do cycle along in the older content.

 

In addition having a path to progress (even if it means that my previous sandcastle has be overshadowed by a possible monolithic idea) i would be glad to try and get these items. There is so many things that i already can't spend my forma or potatos on since i already have market weapons that are so powerful and i am kind of settled it. With a new prime variant (braton prime that is) i am trying very hard to score the new weapon, it is both beautiful and strong.

 

That is why i want the braton prime even though i potatoed and forma my braton twice (non-paying plat player). The ability to get something better that is more challenging than simply going to the market to buy and craft one adds to the desire to always get better.

 

Summary: Because after having market weapons which are the easiest to obtain, we can either opt for dojo or void weapons. I opt for weapons that are direct upgrades to mine because i love my braton and thus i can bare the idea of a braton prime. The Braton prime is significantly harder to get compared to a braton which i can just buy and craft. There is nothing impossible to get within this game, just time difference and your luck so overall there is little we can do about items which are superior.

[Fox-Meat]

I'm wondering why they're Priming weapons that don't need to be Primed. Latron, Paris and Fang was understandable. But the Braton, Bronco and Orthos certainly did not need Prime variants.

[Niryco]

I'm wondering why they're Priming weapons that don't need to be Primed. Latron, Paris and Fang was understandable. But the Braton, Bronco and Orthos certainly did not need Prime variants.

Probably because they are all tenno specific weapons. So-far only tenno origin weapons are getting primes.

[Fox-Meat]

Probably because they are all tenno specific weapons. So-far only tenno origin weapons are getting primes.

In that case, am I a moron for Forma-ing my Lex twice and can expect a Prime for it soon?

[Niryco]

In that case, am I a moron for Forma-ing my Lex twice and can expect a Prime for it soon?

Not sure. If it is a tenno-origin weapon than maybe. For the bronco there wasn't any implication of a tenno-origin yet it is a prime weapon. So we can assume that it is a tenno-origin weapon. For the Lex maybe it may since there isn't any enemies using it, thus making it only tenno available. There are other weapons like boltor or bolto, but not many players are sure whether they count as tenno-origin weapons.

 

We will have to wait and see. Also you are not a moron. Atleast you already have the mods to have your lex prime to be 100% efficient where your lex wasn't before.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Jacate

[bro-dog]

didn't read thread beyond op but i sure as hell am not investing any platinum, forma, or supercharges into weapons that will obviously have prime versions one day

Edited July 14, 2013 by bro-dog

[theammostore]

didn't read thread beyond op but i sure as hell am not investing any platinum, forma, or supercharges into weapons that will obviously have prime versions one day

have fun with those grineer weapons then! We all know how well the Grakata, Vulkar, Gorgon, Kraken, Machete, Dual Cleavers, Vipers, Sobek, Hek, and Seer pistols do work/are easily obtainable. Guess all those potatos you have will jut go to waste then.

[Hafilgar]

Yeah I know that feeling of frustration. Really makes you feel like all your potatoed/forma-ed items are invalidated because better versions are out there. But it's just like a sale at any store. Say you bought a pair of jeans at full price and then the next day it goes on sale at 50% total. Sucks to have bought it just before it went on sale, but stuff like this happens.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

have fun with those grineer weapons then! We all know how well the Grakata, Vulkar, Gorgon, Kraken, Machete, Dual Cleavers, Vipers, Sobek, Hek, and Seer pistols do work/are easily obtainable. Guess all those potatos you have will jut go to waste then.

Out of those like 4-5 are decent TBF (vipers (best DPS I think)/seer (looks good, 80 damage a shot, zoom), cleavers (ok melee, slightly stronger than zorens at the cost of speed), the hek, and the gorgon) so he should be okay I guess (+ clan weapons too I think, along with any primes)

[Darkwahn]

 While it might make sense economically for DE to make pure upgrade weapons, (People buy new potato for new, better, gun) it can really serve to piss off people who put a lot of time into the previous version of the gun.

 

The idea that it's "hard"(no it isnt at all.) to earn most of these is largely irrelevant. It sets a precedent that people should probably wait to see if they'd just be wasting their time/items on the better version of their gun.

 

Also becomes a huge problem if enough people get the better version and it becomes the more standard version for balance changes.

[Niryco]

Out of those like 4-5 are decent TBF (vipers (best DPS I think)/seer (looks good, 80 damage a shot, zoom), cleavers (ok melee, slightly stronger than zorens at the cost of speed), the hek, and the gorgon) so he should be okay I guess (+ clan weapons too I think, along with any primes)

If they suck you can go the dojo path and get orgis. It would also explain why grineers are so weak alone.

[MoustacheMike]

IKR , that's why I don't feel like adding forma into my non prime warframe and considering adding some into my dojo weapon cuz hopefully they will not made a prime version of my supra, acrid ... 

[Niryco]

 While it might make sense economically for DE to make pure upgrade weapons, (People buy new potato for new, better, gun) it can really serve to &!$$ off people who put a lot of time into the previous version of the gun.

 

The idea that it's "hard"(no it isnt at all.) to earn most of these is largely irrelevant. It sets a precedent that people should probably wait to see if they'd just be wasting their time/items on the better version of their gun.

 

Also becomes a huge problem if enough people get the better version and it becomes the more standard version for balance changes.

Probably i am one of the black sheep that is happy such a weapon exist. However i would like to point out that the said is also true if it was the opposite. If it is weak many would ask for a buff. If it was hard to get(exclusive) alot complain it is unfair to them that they can't get it and that it is too good and deserves a nerf(sidegrading).

 

There would be no balance changes based on one model. Each weapon has their statistics. If people are unhappy about it they would make posts about it and it will get attention. The community isn't whole, we are too split in many segments that just can't agree. Overall your points would matter now because we are looking at the bad side of this weapon.

 

If it were changed, we would look at another bad side, followed by another, and another and another and on and on it goes. That doesn't mean looking at the good-side is all good, but most of the things that is being discussed is bad stuff not balanced stuff.

 

If everything went good then there would be no bad stuff to point out and DE would be over-confident and may mess up. So it is best we look at it at a balanced point of it. We don't need to work on these new weapons either because the market ones are already sufficient to do all your jobs.

 

By saying that they aren't means that players are in denial. We all want to get better without change, efficient to every problem. But by being too efficient one can't get better because we won't know what is worse. For all you know the upgrade weapons are worse in one aspect that it truly negates their value.

 

To reiterate, having a balanced view on it would just point out certain points that determine that can be fixed. Also what is it not to say that when we desire for something better and we get it, its value will always diminish. You will get what i mean if you ever had that feeling before. It applies to everything.

[bro-dog]

have fun with those grineer weapons then! We all know how well the Grakata, Vulkar, Gorgon, Kraken, Machete, Dual Cleavers, Vipers, Sobek, Hek, and Seer pistols do work/are easily obtainable. Guess all those potatos you have will jut go to waste then.

 

yeah, i'll cry all night into my ogris

[Asanogawa]

This crappy debate again. Would you rather instead of them adding a prime of a certain weapon add a completely new weapon that just so happened to be stronger than whatever weapon they are using now? "OMG I was using orthos then the (insert random name) came out and it's better omg not fair) Come on...in any MMO new weapons and gear are added on a regular basis AND YES ome new weapons will be better rhan old ones (prime or not) that doesn't take away from the fact that your orthos that you forma'd 6x isn;t still @(*()$ badass. Your weapon still shreds through enemies like butter. So what if theres another weapon that has 5 more @(*()$ damage. What I'm trying to get at is......boohooo boo @(*()$ hoo.

 

PS: I hope DE never gives into this crybabies.

[Tangerine]

The same way I tolerate Cronus being a direct upgrade to Skana, HEK to Boar, Braton to Braton MK1.

[Asanogawa]

The same way I tolerate Cronus being a direct upgrade to Skana, HEK to Boar, Braton to Braton MK1.

Thank you