De: Please Improve The Dodge Maneuver (Redesign Suggestions In Op)

[Tempera]

Although you raise a valid point; specifically the mobility ones make me wonder... They don't feel very balanced (you happen to like the Volt perhaps?).

It's got more to do with their "roles". Rhino and Frost are slow, but tanky, so a more heavily "invincible" slide which doesn't move them that much fits them better than one which immediately moves them away. The important thing is that the idea allows Frost and Rhino to get away from their current position just fast enough to not remain surrounded once moved, and to prevent them from being stunlocked through a fair chunk of it.

 

Meanwhile, Volt is (meant to be) fast, but a lot more fragile. So, he can chain his movements along as he wills, but he becomes progressively more fragile as he does so, making it a choice between mobility and defence.

[Estred]

You but some considerable time into figuring this out. I actually like the idea myself.

[AttackNitro]

Brilliant post OP, clearly a lot of thought put into this. +1 from me!

[Krate]

I still haven't figured out how to block ._.

[stivoknis]

Some of the OPs suggestions seem to be buffs of already existing abilities in game.  Volt has a super speed ability, Mag will have a pull ability in a similar fashion in a later update, Loki can switch teleport, Trinity can link, and Ash can teleport.  The only dodge suggestion that I really feel is unique is the Riposte idea for Excalibur.

 

Perhaps the utility abilities for the Warframes could be buffed a little.

[Meenmu]

If you removed the 'can wallwalk' thing and made the animation just hanging onto the wall, you could use the current "ending vertical wallrun" animation so she just hangs on the wall for a bit until she jumps off.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Aha! I totally forgot about that animation. That sounds like it would work pretty well. 

And of course! Ideas good as this are relatively infrequent. :)

I still haven't figured out how to block ._.

By default it is bound to Mouse4 (side button that a stock mouse probably won't come with). You can go into options and rebind.

If you meant "how" as in how to use block effectively in game, well then you and I are in the same boat.

[SFkenny]

The dodge move for Loki in the OP's list is more or less a stamina based short range Switch Teleport. I'd recommend something different, like some kind of field that can momentarily bend bullets while the dodge anim is playing.

Other than that minor point, really liking the idea.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Wow, this is a pretty good idea. I especially like how it adds more character to the various warframes by emphasizing their themes.

[MJ12]

Some of the OPs suggestions seem to be buffs of already existing abilities in game.  Volt has a super speed ability, Mag will have a pull ability in a similar fashion in a later update, Loki can switch teleport, Trinity can link, and Ash can teleport.  The only dodge suggestion that I really feel is unique is the Riposte idea for Excalibur.

 

Perhaps the utility abilities for the Warframes could be buffed a little.

 

Trinity's dodge is actually more like a really weak version of Blessing actually (temporary invulnerability for a short period of time).

 

Anyways, yes, some of the suggestions are riffs off of powers the Warframe has, tweaked to be weaker and somewhat more defensive in nature. In general these would be weaker powers the Warframe has (Speed is nice but it's not super-good, for example) with their durations chopped down to split-seconds and costing stamina instead of energy.

 

Ideally the utility powers would be buffed (because a lot of them are fairly weak right now) alongside, but having a better and unique dodge would be a good start.

[EarthScorpion]

 Ideally the utility powers would be buffed (because a lot of them are fairly weak right now) alongside, but having a better and unique dodge would be a good start.

 

Interesting question which leads on from this; why shouldn't the lower-end utility powers, which you want people to use all the time, run off Stamina, rather than Energy, if these dodges are basically minor utility powers?  They fill a completely different niche to the high end powers and the ultimate, and by having them linked to the same energy bar all that means is that certain powers never get used because the opportunity cost of using them is never worth a quarter or a third of a more useful power.

 

 

 

[Kyte]

Because these dodges are "tiny" utility powers, whereas proper Powers are "bigger". They cost energy so they do cooler stuff.

Of course that means some Powers should be buffed or improved. :V

[Lukap99]

I like your ideas, but the dodges might become more useful than the actual powers. It should be something like:

Rhino: hops in the direction of dodge (like link from TLOZ but longer and faster, doesn't do flips because he is fat bulky) - lighter enemies get turned into ragdolls if they come in contact - heavier enemies just stagger

MAG: Does a continues back-flip or side-flip in direction of dodge - direction can influenced - jumps over enemies and causes stagger ( Like in batman: arkham asylum/city/origins). does the same for heavy enemies

Excalibur: Jumps in said direction and handsprings for further length - if comes in contact with enemy after handspring then he jumps off enemy in opposite direction ( can continue dodging backwards or use iron sights to immediately shoot enemy who is staggering backwards ( enemy trips at the end of stagger animation)) - if comes in contact with contact before handspring he handspring on the enemy who then falls over while Excalibur can either keep doing handsprings forward or stop - if come in contact with large enemies like fusion moas or ancients he either rolls under them or does a slide ( can aim and shoot while sliding under enemy) depending on the stage of the animation... Hmm, I might just make my own thread for this...

[ValhaHazred]

You deserve to get 1000 plat and your name on update 9. This is one of the few suggestions that I don't just think "that's neat, but whatever". This should be in the game right now!

Edited June 30, 2013 by ValhaHazred

[MJ12]

I like your ideas, but the dodges might become more useful than the actual powers. It should be something like:

Rhino: hops in the direction of dodge (like link from TLOZ but longer and faster, doesn't do flips because he is fat bulky) - lighter enemies get turned into ragdolls if they come in contact - heavier enemies just stagger

MAG: Does a continues back-flip or side-flip in direction of dodge - direction can influenced - jumps over enemies and causes stagger ( Like in batman: arkham asylum/city/origins). does the same for heavy enemies

Excalibur: Jumps in said direction and handsprings for further length - if comes in contact with enemy after handspring then he jumps off enemy in opposite direction ( can continue dodging backwards or use iron sights to immediately shoot enemy who is staggering backwards ( enemy trips at the end of stagger animation)) - if comes in contact with contact before handspring he handspring on the enemy who then falls over while Excalibur can either keep doing handsprings forward or stop - if come in contact with large enemies like fusion moas or ancients he either rolls under them or does a slide ( can aim and shoot while sliding under enemy) depending on the stage of the animation... Hmm, I might just make my own thread for this...

 

The dodges might become more useful than some of the powers for Warframes with notably weak abilities (Mag, Rhino), which is more an issue of those Warframes having extraordinarily weak powers (pull? Ahahaha lol) than the dodges being OP, IMO. Having a dodge that also activates a melee counter for Excalibur isn't that OP, even with assumed buffs to regular attacks and pressure point. It just means Excalibur's dodge shows how Excalibur is a melee focused murder machine.

[Kyte]

Actually, what if Mag's involved sticking your hand to an enemy and mag-flinging him onto another. You know, push and pull. :V

[Lukap99]

Actually, what if Mag's involved sticking your hand to an enemy and mag-flinging him onto another. You know, push and pull. :V

That should be an power. We're talking about dodges here.

[ValhaHazred]

The dodges might become more useful than some of the powers for Warframes with notably weak abilities (Mag, Rhino), which is more an issue of those Warframes having extraordinarily weak powers (pull? Ahahaha lol) than the dodges being OP, IMO. Having a dodge that also activates a melee counter for Excalibur isn't that OP, even with assumed buffs to regular attacks and pressure point. It just means Excalibur's dodge shows how Excalibur is a melee focused murder machine.

Moot point. Mag, Rhino and Volt (maybe some others) are getting huge power buffs in update 9 according to DE_Steve.

[RealityMachina]

ValhaHazred, on 30 Jun 2013 - 6:16 PM, said:

Moot point. Mag, Rhino and Volt (maybe some others) are getting huge power buffs in update 9 according to DE_Steve.

....but his point is that yes, dodges might become more useful than certain powers for warframes that are currently weaksauce...but that's a problem due to the warframes being weaksauce.

If certain warframes being weaksauce becomes no longer true, then obviously his point won't apply...and neither might yours, since you're both working off the current crop of weaksauce warframes.

Edited June 30, 2013 by RealityMachina

[Stinker]

"Dodge moves should have invincibility frames!"

 

Yeah no thanks.

[MJ12]

"Dodge moves should have invincibility frames!"

 

Yeah no thanks.

 

Well, right now, dodge moves don't have invincibility frames and are also useless.

 

Most games with effective, useful dodge moves give them invincibility frames or have all enemies use slow-moving, heavily telegraphed attacks which are not spammed at a high frequency, but rather take seconds to set up. Since Warframe takes place in the far future and everyone and their mother has rapid-fire weapons, this is a problem because you can't do the latter. Thus you either need to do the former or just remove dodging period. Given we play fast, agile ninjas (even Rhino is supposed to be fast and agile), dodge moves kind of help with that.

 

So please, explain why you're basically saying "no thanks" to the idea that dodging should be at least as effective as hiding behind a box.

[RealityMachina]

 

So please, explain why you're basically saying "no thanks" to the idea that dodging should be at least as effective as hiding behind a box.

Because your post contained the phrase "invincibility frames" and as we all know, invincibility frames can never ever be used well in video games.

 

 

For you see, anything dealing with invincibility causes video game developers to get a -5 to their Competent Video Game Development checks.

Edited June 30, 2013 by RealityMachina

[Meenmu]

Because your post contained the phrase "invincibility frames" and as we all know, invincibility frames can never ever be used well in video games.

 

 

For you see, anything dealing with invincibility causes video game developers to get a -5 to their Competent Video Game Development checks.

Don't think you understand what invincibility frames are. Looks like you just saw the word "invincibility" and started jumping to conclusions.

Ever heard of Super Smash Bros. Melee?

[MJ12]

Don't think you understand what invincibility frames are. Looks like you just saw the word "invincibility" and started jumping to conclusions.

Ever heard of Super Smash Bros. Melee?

 

He's being sarcastic.

[RealityMachina]

He's being sarcastic.

I would have thought the downs smiley in the education hat would have given it away. :(

[Meenmu]

I would have thought the downs smiley in the education hat would have given it away. :(

Oh jeez, this is embarrassing. Totally didn't realize haha