The Ridiculous Grind For Dojo Weapons

[Duralumin]

Why exactly is the time it takes to craft Dojo weapons stupidly long?

I did calculations for the total crafting time of all Dojo weaponry currently available. This includes the crafting time for each individual Mutagen Mass/Fieldron/Detonite Injector and Forma.

Ogris, Acrid, Flux Rifle, Lanka: 3 days, 12 hours (84 hours!)

Ignis, Dera, Torid, Prova: 2 days (48 hours!)

Supra: 4d 12h (108 hours!!)

Note how the majority of the Dojo weapons take the same time to craft as a Warframe or more. It's a stupid level of grind for ONE weapon, which cost a large amount of resources to obtain the BP for in the first place.

It doesn't help that Fieldron Samples/Detonite Ampules/Mutagen Samples are rare-ish in the first place. If we were to count the hours it takes to obtain 10 of one of them the time would be even higher.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

(A: Main Solutions, B: Solutions to be used in combo with a Main Solution)

-Drastically reduce the crafting time for Fieldron, Detonite Injectors and Mutagen Masses (A)

-Allow multiple items of the same type to be crafted at the same time (A)

-Reduce the Fieldron/Mutagen Mass/Detonite Injector requirements for all weapons that require more than 3 to craft (B)

-Increase the quantity in which Detonite Ampules/Mutagen Samples/Fieldron Samples are found. (B)

[Nerokerubina]

They're meant to be end-game weapons, something to slowly work up to. Not only that but the majority of them are very powerful; DE doesn't want something so powerful to be easy and short to make. 

[Dasmir]

End-game weapons...

[Duralumin]

They're meant to be end-game weapons, something to slowly work up to. Not only that but the majority of them are very powerful; DE doesn't want something so powerful to be easy and short to make. 

 

I'm not saying make them easy and short to make; I'm saying make the grind for the weapons less disgusting.

 

2 days is ideal. That's twice as long as it takes to craft a "normal" weapon. 3 days is the limit, and that's only acceptable for absolute top-of-the-line weapons.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Duralumin

[DaftMeat]

Why can't you have all the cool stuff at once? To prevent players from briefly trying everything at once, getting bored quicker, and moving to other games.

Did you notice the Rush option? There's your alternative: give them money. I'm sure there are plenty people out there with more platinum than patience. If not, wait it out (which I do myself).

[Dasmir]

I'm not saying make them easy and short to make; I'm saying make the grind for the weapons less disgusting.

 

2 days is ideal. That's twice as long as it takes to craft a "normal" weapon. 3 days is the limit, and that's only acceptable for absolute top-of-the-line weapons.

 

most of them just need  1 week thats is really okey for end-game gear in any online game just saying

[-sh0gun-]

It should take way longer for those big-&#! clans like Broframe, but we will see that in the future anyways

Edited June 30, 2013 by Los_Cojones

[Duralumin]

Why can't you have all the cool stuff at once? To prevent players from briefly trying everything at once, getting bored quicker, and moving to other games.

Did you notice the Rush option? There's your alternative: give them money. I'm sure there are plenty people out there with more platinum than patience. If not, wait it out (which I do myself).

 

"give DE money or wait arbitarily long times for weapons"

 

No, but seriously. Having incredibly long wait times is just as bad as handing your players everything on a silver platter. DE found a good balance with normal weapons and Warframes, but Dojo weapon times are too long (except for the 2d ones).

Player starts playing game > "oh boy this game seems pretty cool!" > "wait, HOW long do those items take to make?"

> player either really likes the game and sticks to the grind, or quits after seeing how long it tkaes

 

If DE want an endgame they'll add an endless survival mode. But that's a topic for another thread.

 

most of them just need  1 week thats is really okey for end-game gear in any online game just saying

pffftchahahah

 

 

 

It should take way longer for those big-&#! clans like Broframe, but we will see that in the future anyways

That's stupid.

Clan size should have no effect on individual crafting times.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Duralumin

[-sh0gun-]

That's stupid.

Clan size should have no effect on individual crafting times.

Oh, I meant the farming time. The crafting time is perfect in my opinion and completely sensible. What I like most is that you can't rush it.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Los_Cojones

[Mickey1779]

I do not see an issue with the amount of time and resources needed.

 

Just be thankful you are in a large enough Clan that you can actually start working on them.

 

Those of us in smaller Clans do not even have the rooms in the Dojo yet to even start researching them, much less start building any of them.

[Xievie]

It takes four days to make a Supra.

I will use my new Supra for four months (or more) after I finish making it.

I think it's worth the wait. It's not like weapons are consumables.

I'll gladly spend four days for a weapon I will be using and enjoying.

[Xoxile]

Duralumin, on 30 Jun 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Player starts playing game > "oh boy this game seems pretty cool!" > "wait, HOW long do those items take to make?"

> player either really likes the game and sticks to the grind, or quits after seeing how long it tkaes

If DE want and endgame they'll add an endless survival mode. But that's a topic for another thread.

If a new player stared playing, and likes the game it's not going to be because of the weapons that require mastery rank 6.

And it's called endless defense.

[Duralumin]

Bah, it seems I'm alone in holding this view.

 

And it's called endless defense.

Endless defense still requires you defend an object that dies upon being sneezed on at higher levels.

I'm talking about a survival mode where you look after yourself. Akin to a "horde" mode or sorts.

[KF5AQX]

Bah, it seems I'm alone in holding this view.

 

Endless defense still requires you defend an object that dies upon being sneezed on at higher levels.

I'm talking about a survival mode where you look after yourself. Akin to a "horde" mode or sorts.

 

 

This is one thing I've also thought of myself.

[TheDoctah]

Honestly, the crafting rates are fine. What DOES need to be addressed though is the number of samples you can craft at the same time. (Mutagens and all that good stuff) really wish you weren't able to only craft one at a time. 

[Dasmir]

pffftchahahah

 

You havent played others online game dont you ?

[Ceres666]

I do not see an issue with the amount of time and resources needed.

 

Just be thankful you are in a large enough Clan that you can actually start working on them.

 

Those of us in smaller Clans do not even have the rooms in the Dojo yet to even start researching them, much less start building any of them.

[Duralumin]

You havent played others online game dont you ?

I've played plenty, but that has nothing to do with the fact that a week-long crafting time is one of the stupidest things a dev can put in their game.

[Dasmir]

 

I do not see an issue with the amount of time and resources needed.

 

Just be thankful you are in a large enough Clan that you can actually start working on them.

 

Those of us in smaller Clans do not even have the rooms in the Dojo yet to even start researching them, much less start building any of them.

 

 

update 9....

 

 

I've played plenty, but that has nothing to do with the fact that a week-long crafting time is one of the stupidest things a dev can put in their game.

 

if you dont like to wait then put 5 dollars to rush and support the game Shhhhhhhhhs...

Edited June 30, 2013 by Dasmir

[Keltik0ne]

The only dojo weapon I actually enjoy using is the Acrid.  It may not be as good as the throwing knives but its just so much fun.

 

I use my Boltor/Brandal over the other dojo weps as I can't justify stuffing the newer weps with formas, since they really dont feel all that much better. The costs and time is ok in my opinion, as it feels like you work towards something.

 

 

In fact, Mogamu's videos on youtube explain the weps pretty well.

Worth watching.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Keltik0ne

[Duralumin]

if you dont like to wait then put 5 dollars to rush and support the game Shhhhhhhhhs...

 

I wish downvoting was still enabled.

[Xoxile]

I wish downvoting was still enabled.

Why? So you can get more meaningless red numbers on all your posts than he would on his? I think this discussion is over if you have to resort to wishing you can say "Neener neener".

[Duralumin]

Why? So you can get more meaningless red numbers on all your posts than he would on his? I think this discussion is over if you have to resort to wishing you can say "Neener neener".

I'm implying that I intensely dislike the fact that he's defending the idea of "week-long crafting times" in the first place.

Downvotes or not, I stand by my views on the matter.

The solutions I'm leaning towards most are the reduction in requirements of Fieldron/Detonite Injectors/Mutagen Masses, or the ability to craft multiple of the same item at once.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Duralumin

[w1lyumz]

I'm implying that I intensely dislike the fact that he's defending the idea of "week-long crafting times" in the first place.

 

Whether you dislike the crafting times or not, they are necessary for a PvE game. If you can craft the highest level gear in the game in less than two or three days (Without paying money) that game has almost nothing to keep you playing it for a long period of time. It loses play-ability and easily bores people in the high end of the game.

 

If you can present a valid argument agaisnt this, then you're position will be much stronger than "I'm impatient and want the strongest weapons in the game immediately." 

[Duralumin]

Whether you dislike the crafting times or not, they are necessary for a PvE game. If you can craft the highest level gear in the game in less than two or three days (Without paying money) that game has almost nothing to keep you playing it for a long period of time. It loses play-ability and easily bores people in the high end of the game.

 

If you can present a valid argument agaisnt this, then you're position will be much stronger than "I'm impatient and want the strongest weapons in the game immediately." 

Huge crafting times are just as likely to push people away as short crafting times are to tire people out.

Big numbers are intimidating (for some), so people may not feel like bothering in the first place. There needs to be a balance.

 

And god damnit. I'm not asking for the weapons immediately, I want the times to be less ridiculous, and to be less of a huge investment of time and resources. Two days is already twice as long as it takes to craft a normal weapon. Three days is passable for the final-tier weapons such as the Ogris or the Supra. Anything more than three is stupidly long.