Lanka - I See Why Nobody Uses This!

[Jugganatha]

1) I would strongly disagree.  One of the major downfalls of snipers in this game is their low rate of fire (reloads for snipetron and vulkar, rate of fire for bows, and lanka). This mod actually improves this by quite a bit and makes cleaning up light enemies not very difficult if you are capable of accurately hopping from target to target (if you can't, go back to using normal rifles and leave us alone with our OHK OP snipers)

 

2) Yup.  Just look at the tables I've posted all over the place.  That 200 base damage does wonders. 

 

3) Again, yeah pretty much.  Just look at the tables I have presented (although I don't know if I've posted one with paris in it...).  Name any target and I will present the tables for Paris vs Dread and show that Dread wins 10/10

 

4) debatable.  Dreads puncture is quite useful as well. 

 

5) Ogris is the blind mans sniper.  The end. 

I'd only really recommend Speed Trigger on bows to take advantage of their instant reload factor. Insta-draw makes them pretty good at dealing high damage very quickly. Reload was a pain in the &#! on the Vulkar but the damage was decent enough, so I ignored it and slotted damage instead of fast hands. I kinda have a fetish for ohk so I slot pure damage increase every chance I get, but I suppose some might see the merit in/take advantage of speed utility. And yeah I use Speed Trigger on my Dread :P

 

My 4th point is give or take. By consistent damage I mean that 200 base plus mods does more than 150 base plus mods, but crit (max vital sense taken into account) makes Dread and Lanka deal roughly the same damage. Doesn't do too much since the whole point of snipers it to crit anyways so... whatever.

 

And no, I don't think I've seen Paris in your damage tables. Don't waste your time for my sake though, we both know it's just not as good XD

[Tatersail]

Crit damage makes it Sing...  a little

I tend to see 1220 1220 300 yellow per shot on mobs in t3 and its starting to "drop mobs", but its a bit of a... sometimes it crits and hurts sometimes it doesn't weapon.

 

Its still a little too sluggish I often find myself getting surrounded picking off things 1 by 1, and have to swap to acrid, 1 shot everything thats swarming me (with its 8.8 responsive fire rate, easy tracking, huge clip, limitless ammo) then swap back to lanka...  and then I start to wonder.

 

I enjoy the challenge of hitting a mob with a hideously slow firing weapon that needs to lead its target by about an inch on the screen, but 60 levels of Enjoying the challenge is about all I need, If I want a challenging game I can always run unmodded Vulkar on a nakked frame, and not have to deal with bullet travel issues

 

 

I may have liked this gun as a rank4 when leveling with strun and lex but, with all the weapons I now have, I find it almost unusable.

its going with the 6 other primary weapons I never use.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Tatersail

[Xoxile]

3) Again, yeah pretty much.  Just look at the tables I have presented (although I don't know if I've posted one with paris in it...).  Name any target and I will present the tables for Paris vs Dread and show that Dread wins 10/10

Do you ever take into account of really high level mobs?

For example against a lvl 100+ heavy where they have such a ridiculous amount of resistance where most damage is reduced to 1. Let's say we compare a Paris, and a Dread both modded with only a maxed AP mod (which there is not resistance that scales for it). The Dread will do 90 AP damage, and 1 damage of it's base slashing damage. The Paris will do 60 AP damage, and 100 armor ignoring damage.

Probably for most of the games you play you will not run into lvl 100+ enemies, unless you really love playing long endless defenses. But when you do find one using anything that ignores armor, or resistances will save you so much more ammo.

Edit: Let's also throw in the Lanka in that example for the sake of staying on topic. 110 AP damage, and 1 electric damage.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Xoxile

[Jugganatha]

Do you ever take into account of really high level mobs?

For example against a lvl 100+ heavy where they have such a ridiculous amount of resistance where most damage is reduced to 1. Let's say we compare a Paris, and a Dread both modded with only a maxed AP mod (which there is not resistance that scales for it). The Dread will do 90 AP damage, and 1 damage of it's base slashing damage. The Paris will do 60 AP damage, and 100 armor ignoring damage.

Probably for most of the games you play you will not run into lvl 100+ enemies, unless you really love playing long endless defenses. But when you do find one using anything that ignores armor, or resistances will save you so much more ammo.

Edit: Let's also throw in the Lanka in that example for the sake of staying on topic. 110 AP damage, and 1 electric damage.

Running base+ap without taking serration, crit, multishot and all elements into account is an irreconcilable fallacy in your argument when comparing sniper weapons. Paris' innate AP, whether doing calculations or actually play testing it, does nothing to help it overcome Dread in any situation.

 

And don't even try the bodyshot argument. Not sniping with a sniper? Let's cut supra's fire rate down to 1.4 if we're using that logic.

[Notso]

The problem is that it's a sniper with noticeable bullet travel time over short distances. That's why it sucks.

 

 

What Lanka and other laser {or plasma} weapons need is this: Regenerative Ammo

 

even this! Charging Ammo

 

They're all great weapons though, just too funky to be used thanks to these inconveniences.

 

Hah! I remember that thread! Shame it sunk. :T

[lstalri]

Do you ever take into account of really high level mobs?

For example against a lvl 100+ heavy where they have such a ridiculous amount of resistance where most damage is reduced to 1. Let's say we compare a Paris, and a Dread both modded with only a maxed AP mod (which there is not resistance that scales for it). The Dread will do 90 AP damage, and 1 damage of it's base slashing damage. The Paris will do 60 AP damage, and 100 armor ignoring damage.

Probably for most of the games you play you will not run into lvl 100+ enemies, unless you really love playing long endless defenses. But when you do find one using anything that ignores armor, or resistances will save you so much more ammo.

Edit: Let's also throw in the Lanka in that example for the sake of staying on topic. 110 AP damage, and 1 electric damage.

Challenge Accepted:

 

http://puu.sh/3tGc5.png - Grinner Medium Head 0-100 (Dread/Lanka tie)

http://puu.sh/3tGdU.png - Grineer Medium Head 20-200 (Dread/Lanka tie)

http://puu.sh/3tGgG.png - Grineer Heavy Head 0-100 (Dread wins)

http://puu.sh/3tGhV.png - Grineer Heavy Head 20-200 (Dread/Lanka tie)

http://puu.sh/3tGzt.png - Infested Charger Head 0-100 (Dread wins without contest)

http://puu.sh/3tGzW.png - Infested Charger Head 20-200 (Dread wins)

 

Those are the only enemy Vulnerabilities that have scaling resistance on them, but I understand that hitting an infested chargers head is a bit of a pain, so here are the body calcs:

 

http://puu.sh/3tGwS.png - Infested Charger Body 0-100 (Dread wins)

http://puu.sh/3tGxX.png - Infested Charger Body 20-200 (Dread wins, no contest)

 

Anything else there's really no point in knowing (although if you want to, I guess I could pull up the numbers) since you should generally be hitting weak spots anyway (snipers? precision shots? yeah...). 

 

... you know, I still find it so interesting that dread and lanka have the same crit damage when AP is all there is to play...

 

EDIT: after re-reading your post, I feel there is another point I should make.  The reason why I include serration is not just so to increase your base damage on the enemy, but mods take their numbers off of the new base damage created by serration.  So, when doing those calculations for the lanka, you have to multiply the 200 base damage by 1.65, then add that back onto the original base damage, giving you a grand total of 530 base damage for your mods to play off of.  This gives you 318 AP damage, not the 110 you stated, and also puts to shame the 159 AP damage of the Paris (100 base damage -> 265 with serration.  The reason Lanka's 318 AP damage pulls ahead of paris' net damage is because all of Lanka's AP gets multiplied, while Paris' 265 AI damage just sits there doing that same damage the whole time). 

 

This actually makes that whole "Rank 10 serration is like pissing in the ocean" (coined by MikeB) somewhat invalid, since that extra 30% from rank 8, or 60% from rank 6 effects your extra mods as well, which, both as you can see from my tables, and as you could imaging with other weapons/numbers how quickly things can increase (http://puu.sh/3sZZu)(pm me if you would like to see examples, anything except for mele weapons, sg's, and DoT's I can do, and will have Damage Per <insert amount of time here (1, 5, 10, 15, 60 seconds slated for now)> tables sooner than later). 

Edited July 2, 2013 by lstalri

[Xoxile]

Running base+ap without taking serration, crit, multishot and all elements into account is an irreconcilable fallacy in your argument when comparing sniper weapons. Paris' innate AP, whether doing calculations or actually play testing it, does nothing to help it overcome Dread in any situation.

 

And don't even try the bodyshot argument. Not sniping with a sniper? Let's cut supra's fire rate down to 1.4 if we're using that logic.

 

Adding serration, and crit would just call for more math, and a longer post which I am not too fond of either.

Still adding them would make no difference IF we are still assuming the mob in question has a high enough resistance to only be taking 1 damage from anything that is not subject to armor.

Challenge Accepted:

 

http://puu.sh/3tGc5.png - Grinner Medium Head 0-100 (Dread/Lanka tie)

http://puu.sh/3tGdU.png - Grineer Medium Head 20-200 (Dread/Lanka tie)

http://puu.sh/3tGgG.png - Grineer Heavy Head 0-100 (Dread wins)

http://puu.sh/3tGhV.png - Grineer Heavy Head 20-200 (Dread/Lanka tie)

http://puu.sh/3tGzt.png - Infested Charger Head 0-100 (Dread wins without contest)

http://puu.sh/3tGzW.png - Infested Charger Head 20-200 (Dread wins)

 

Those are the only enemy Vulnerabilities that have scaling resistance on them, but I understand that hitting an infested chargers head is a bit of a pain, so here are the body calcs:

 

http://puu.sh/3tGwS.png - Infested Charger Body 0-100 (Dread wins)

http://puu.sh/3tGxX.png - Infested Charger Body 20-200 (Dread wins, no contest)

 

Anything else there's really no point in knowing (although if you want to, I guess I could pull up the numbers) since you should generally be hitting weak spots anyway (snipers? precision shots? yeah...). 

 

... you know, I still find it so interesting that dread and lanka have the same crit damage when AP is all there is to play...

 

EDIT: after re-reading your post, I feel there is another point I should make.  The reason why I include serration is not just so to increase your base damage on the enemy, but mods take their numbers off of the new base damage created by serration.  So, when doing those calculations for the lanka, you have to multiply the 200 base damage by 1.65, then add that back onto the original base damage, giving you a grand total of 530 base damage for your mods to play off of.  This gives you 318 AP damage, not the 110 you stated, and also puts to shame the 159 AP damage of the Paris (100 base damage -> 265 with serration.  The reason Lanka's 318 AP damage pulls ahead of paris' net damage is because all of Lanka's AP gets multiplied, while Paris' 265 AI damage just sits there doing that same damage the whole time).

Well played sir. These tables show me that it takes much more than a lvl 100 mob to resist higher base damage.

However assuming the resistance ever did get to a point where slashing damage, and electric damage was reduced to 1 no matter how much you buff it armor ignore would be there to save the day.

With max serration, and AP mods on both a Lanka, and a Paris AND just assuming for arguments sake that electric damage is reduced to 1; Lanka 318 AP damage 1 electric damage. Paris 159 AP damage 265 armor ignoring damage = 424.

But you have shown me that the odds of a mob ever having such a high resistance to reduce electric damage, or slashing damage to 1 is very far fetched.

[lstalri]

As far as this game goes, the only time you see/plan on seeing lvl 200+ enemies is in endless defense, at which point you're using purely abilities.  Even the planned "end-game" won't be going much higher than lvl 150.  If it does, I'll be amazed and actually look forward to it very much. 

 

Also, I explained this in my last paragraph: Lanka's 318 AP damage will be multiplied more than Paris' 424 mixed damage.  Just look at the numbers; Lanka's AP does more.  Grineer head is an excellent example of this. 

 

 

EDIT: oh by the way, I figured out the difference between the walker and the crawler.  Anything with a biped body shape (leapers, runners, even the little guys on the floor with half a body) fall under the category of a "walker," while the big blue mini-phorid quadrupeds are all considered "crawlers." 

Edited July 3, 2013 by lstalri

[LazerusKI]

huuh, the level 200 values are very interesting.

so lanka and dread are actually at the same level.

the main difference is Dreads Puncture then.

 

i have finally managed to get my lanka...needed to switch the clan for a few minutes, but now i have got it ^-^

let the pew pew begin

Edited July 3, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Keetsune]

 

http://puu.sh/3tpPo.png - Infested Charger - Head

 

Infested Charger don't have weak spoots. 

 

 

10 shoots of lanka                  = 18 sec + 2 sec reload time

10 shoots of dread(charged)  = 12 sec + no reload time.

 

So when you calculate your DPS, you always can multiple dread damge by 1.6 comparing it with Lanka. And ayway as i said before you calculation is inaccurate cause you using wrong formulas.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Keetsune

[lstalri]

I will be adding DPS charts sooner than later (hopefully) once I figure out what to do with the stupid "rate of fire" number (since it's not shots per second, I have no idea what to do with the actual number) I should be able to whip up the Damage Per <1, 5, 10, 15, and 60 second> tables. 

 

Yet again, I ask of you.  What is wrong with these formula's?  Whatever I'm doing seems to cooralate directly with what's happening in-game (I am able to recreate the numbers I get on this spreadsheet in-game, with the exception of shields and such). 

[Temeraire]

People forgot this is a RAILGUN!!! omg,,, a bow cant reach the speed of Railgun shot, a Bow cant penetrate the same of RAILGUN shot. and lanka dmg will be a normal dmg (armor ignore) +bonus of electric charge..


sorry for my english, but seriusly lanka have so many thing bad.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Temeraire

[LazerusKI]

People forgot this is a RAILGUN!!! omg,,, a bow cant reach the speed of Railgun shot, a Bow cant penetrate the same of RAILGUN shot. and lanka dmg will be a normal dmg (armor ignore) +bonus of electric charge..

sorry for my english, but seriusly lanka have so many thing bad.

what is he talking about?

seriously, i cant see any sense.

does he want to make lanka Hitscan, Armor Ignore, Puncture + Electric?

Edited July 3, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Xoxile]

what is he talking about?

seriously, i cant see any sense.

does he want to make lanka Hitscan, Armor Ignore, Puncture + Electric?

I think he's just referring to the Lanka's description labeling it as a rail gun when it doesn't act like a rail gun at all. So yes he would like it to be hitscan, armor ignore, and puncture.... Don't know how electric damage fits into that.

[Jugganatha]

what is he talking about?

seriously, i cant see any sense.

does he want to make lanka Hitscan, Armor Ignore, Puncture + Electric?

Hitscan and puncture seem to be popular suggestions in general. I admit I wouldn't mind seeing those added to it myself.

[LazerusKI]

if lanka would be turned into a railgun, then yes, puncture and hitscan.

but no armor ignore. would be way too OP then.

im leveling my lanka right now, and its very good. some things are very annoying (loosing charge without a reason, silly charge indicator etchttps://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/72750-charge-weapon-mechanic-visual-crosshair-indicator/ )

but from damage aspects its pretty nice. its base damage is weak against infested, but with a fire mod on it they are no problem at all.

so far i have only speed trigger + element.

 

projectile flight time is not a problem at all, its very fast, it feels nearly like hitscan for me, my main problem is jsut the charge mechanic of the clan weapons :s its somehow stupid right now

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

Lol?

 

 

 

http://www.noelshack.com/2013-27-1372893615-2013-07-03-00013.jpg

[Keetsune]

but no armor ignore. would be way too OP then.

It will not be OP.

[Keetsune]

Lol?

 

 

 

http://www.noelshack.com/2013-27-1372893615-2013-07-03-00013.jpg

2x damage from electic + 3x damage for weakspot = 6x damage + crit multiplier. Not so amazing.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Keetsune

[Scherhardt]

Lol?

 

 

 

http://www.noelshack.com/2013-27-1372893615-2013-07-03-00013.jpg

 

From the early days of warframe I can crit up to 27k using melee charge attack.

[lstalri]

The only place in the entire game that the Lanka is called a railgun is in the PLAYER EDITED wiki.  NOWHERE in-game, stated by DE, or any other official source is the term railgun even used, only "high velocity projectile through magnetic induction" which does not mean railgun, it just means electrically powered gun (yes, guns that use electricity to fire a bullet instead of gunpowder are in the making).  Sure, it seems like a railgun that happens to generally shoot a bullet the size of your head, but no, that's not what it actually is. 

 

Yes, puncture and hitscan would be nice to have, but no, they are not necessary.  The gun already has the potential to do 20k damage against corpus with a high clip size, fast reload speed, and relatively high rate of fire (with speed trigger)... what more can you ask for???

[LazerusKI]

maybe its somewhere in the files, hidden for our eyes but open for dataminers?

 

dread can do the same. against multiple enemys in a row :) (not that high, but high enough to onehit)

thats the big difference. why do you want to overkille one enemy, if you can kill like 3 or 4 with the same shot?

Edited July 4, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

Lanka is a silent sniper with huge zoom, actually he is fun and powerful, and usefull in HW defense

 

 

Better than the paris or dread in single target dmg

 

 

Scherhardt:  and? Why do you talk me about melee weapon without patch?

 

 

Actually, i overkill the corpus with it, even if they are lvl 150, so i am happy :)

 

Stop QQ about a good weapon

[LazerusKI]

It will not be OP.

in my opinion...it would.

It has the highest base damage of all rifles, and has the same critical damage as Dread.

with armor ignore (would it even make sense for elemental damage?) and piercing it would turn into a crazy mix.

it would turn into a Dread (high damage agaisnt a specific enemy) mixed with Bolt Ability (100% against everything) and then with puncture it could even hit more enemys than the bows. i dont know...sounds op for me.

 

Armor Ignore + Electrical damage would not make sense in my opinion, and it would not solve the problem with the single-hit only that most Sniper Rifles have. it would just make great damage even stronger

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

A sniper rifle = 1 target, and in this role, the lanka is good, he dont need armor ignore, the elemental mod scale very well on him and he is fun, due to his bullet travel time