Lanka - I See Why Nobody Uses This!

[lstalri]

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Lanka vs. Dread vs. Snipetron:

http://puu.sh/3t59q.png - corpus head

http://puu.sh/3toY9.png - grineer head <-- edited (Forgot to add scaling resistances to slicing damage.  Oops!)

http://puu.sh/3t5cW.png - ancient leg

And I never showcased what dread was REALLY good against:

http://puu.sh/3tpPo.png - Infested Charger - Head

http://puu.sh/3tpTq.png - Infested Charger - Body

http://puu.sh/3tpR9.png - Infested Walker - Head

http://puu.sh/3tpUW.png - Infested Walker - Body

 

I'm sure you can do your own math for sonar (+ 500%, 625% with focus) and primed charge (+100%). 

 

 

EDIT: and yes, this spreadsheet is still a [WIP]... I was last editing it on a different computer and forgot to forward it to myself.  I'll be adding DP<anything between 1 and 500 second> tables taking into account 0-100% accuracy and such.  Don't worry, I'm working on it... this stuff isn't easy.  If excel was a programming language, I'd cry.  For example:

 

THIS VERSION'S damage calculation (per mod):

=IF($F7*(VLOOKUP($J$4,'Resistance|Scaling Tables'!$B$4:$J$22,MATCH($H7,'Resistance|Scaling Tables'!$C$3:$J$3,0)+1,FALSE)-VLOOKUP($J$4,'Resistance|Scaling Tables'!$L$4:$T$22,MATCH($H7,'Resistance|Scaling Tables'!$C$3:$J$3,0)+1,FALSE)*J$6)>=0, $F7*(VLOOKUP($J$4,'Resistance|Scaling Tables'!$B$4:$J$22,MATCH($H7,'Resistance|Scaling Tables'!$C$3:$J$3,0)+1,FALSE)-VLOOKUP($J$4,'Resistance|Scaling Tables'!$L$4:$T$22,MATCH($H7,'Resistance|Scaling Tables'!$C$3:$J$3,0)+1,FALSE)*J$6), 0)

 

THE NEXT VERSION'S calculation for how much each mod modifies the base number:

=IF(TRUE =
OR(MATCH($B12,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0) = MATCH(Mods!$C$5,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0),MATCH($B12,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0) = MATCH(Mods!$C$8,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0),MATCH($B12,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0) = MATCH(Mods!$C$10,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0),MATCH($B12,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0) = MATCH(Mods!$C$15,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0)),

INDEX($B$12:$E$19,MATCH("Serration",$B$12:$B$19,0),4) * $D12,

IF(TRUE =
OR(MATCH($B12,Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0) = MATCH("Speed Trigger",Mods!$C$4:$C$16,0)),

VLOOKUP(VLOOKUP($B12,Mods!$C$3:$O$16,2),$B$3:$D$9,3)-(VLOOKUP(VLOOKUP($B12,Mods!$C$3:$O$16,2),$B$3:$D$9,3))*VLOOKUP($B12,Mods!$C$3:$O$16,MATCH(C12,Mods!$E$3:$O$3,0)+2),

VLOOKUP(VLOOKUP($B12,Mods!$C$3:$O$16,2),$B$3:$D$9,3)+(VLOOKUP(VLOOKUP($B12,Mods!$C$3:$O$16,2),$B$3:$D$9,3))*VLOOKUP($B12,Mods!$C$3:$O$16,MATCH(C12,Mods!$E$3:$O$3,0)+2)))

 

Feel free to pm me for feedback/suggestions. 

Edited July 9, 2013 by lstalri

[LazerusKI]

It usually takes a moment or so to acquire a sniping target so the charge time is not really a huge detriment; but its a very limited use weapon for a very high crafting price.

for a trained sniper player its more like a reflex.

you dont need to "aim" anymore, you see your target and you hit it. there is no conscious aim anymore.

with Vandaltrons AP even a bodyshot can hurt.

thats why a good sniper can deal more damage in less time with a "non charge rifle" than with a charge rifle.

 

look at the dread for example. if you know that you dont need to fully charge to kill an enemy, you get a much higher killing speed. If they are lined up, you can kill even faster.

Lanka is limited, so against a single corpus target it may be better, but usually you wont have just one target.

a trained sniper (or someone with a weapon like supra or acrid) can kill a whole room in the same time you charge for your second shot.

 

if lanka would pierce through its target, it would give a good sniper a reason to use it, because it would balance the difference between a "fast shooting sniper", and "well placed hit sniper".

dread is just a hybrid, fast shots with low damage or slow shots with high puncture-damge, it works both ways.

if i play with my dread and my Vauban is equipped with health and shield, i usually wait for the enemys to walk behind eachother, so that i can hit more than one per shot.

against small infested packs running towards me, i will usually spam my shots. if they are standing still or running in a line, i charge up to hit most of them.

or i just throw bastille and walk around to score a lined up shot.

 

a "fast shooter" is always stronger than a "aimer", because sniper rifles will usually deal onehitkills all the time.

so, in the time you kill 6 enemys with your snipetron, you can maybe kill 2 with your lanka.

 

yay, post 789 xD

Edited July 9, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Keetsune]

I'm sure you can do your own math for sonar (+ 500%, 625% with focus)

650% with focus. And sonar may stuck some time up to 3 times in my own experience which gives me 27462%.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Keetsune

[lstalri]

for a trained sniper player its more like a reflex.

you dont need to "aim" anymore, you see your target and you hit it. there is no conscious aim anymore.

with Vandaltrons AP even a bodyshot can hurt.

Very well said, however I feel I have to disagree with the rest of it...

 

 

thats why a good sniper can deal more damage in less time with a "non charge rifle" than with a charge rifle.

 

look at the dread for example. if you know that you dont need to fully charge to kill an enemy, you get a much higher killing speed. If they are lined up, you can kill even faster.

Dread does not have a % damage for its charge time.  It's either fully charged or it's not.  So basically anything in between is a complete waste of time. 

 

 

Lanka is limited, so against a single corpus target it may be better, but usually you wont have just one target.

a trained sniper (or someone with a weapon like supra or acrid) can kill a whole room in the same time you charge for your second shot.

This brings me to a whole new topic which I'll discuss at the end of the post.  It's true in some respects, but those respects include the idea that an mk1 bratan could do the same thing.  Scroll down for spoilers. 

 

 

if lanka would pierce through its target, it would give a good sniper a reason to use it, because it would balance the difference between a "fast shooting sniper", and "well placed hit sniper".

dread is just a hybrid, fast shots with low damage or slow shots with high puncture-damge, it works both ways.

if i play with my dread and my Vauban is equipped with health and shield, i usually wait for the enemys to walk behind eachother, so that i can hit more than one per shot.

against small infested packs running towards me, i will usually spam my shots. if they are standing still or running in a line, i charge up to hit most of them.

or i just throw bastille and walk around to score a lined up shot.

And here's where you're completely wrong.  Dread is not a hybrid at all (just look at the numbers I've posted to prove it).  If you are fighting enemies that you can kill without charging your dread, scroll down for the spoilers.  If you are charging your dread, using it to its true potential (and obviously not using thunderbolt for the 30% chance to throw all hope of awesome damage out the window), it falls into the same area as lanka and snipetron do. 

 

a "fast shooter" is always stronger than a "aimer", because sniper rifles will usually deal onehitkills all the time.

so, in the time you kill 6 enemys with your snipetron, you can maybe kill 2 with your lanka.

ok, so hit-scan no-skill sniping aside, the lanka and the snipetron have extremely similar fire rates (They actually turn out to be exactly the same, 1.5 (to shoot for the snipetron, to charge for the lanka.  Obviously there's a slight difference due to the fact the user has to respond to the charging of the lanka, but it's negligeble enough to put them in the same category), so your "6 kills with snipetron = 2 kills with lanka" is obviously false.  The real difference is the damage type they do and how it scales with mods.  Since an AP base obviously has an advantage against grineer and an electrical base has an obvious advantage against corpus, the only true target to compare all snipers on a relatively even table (to remove dreads slicing damage to light infested as well) is on ancients.  I'll be providing damage tables for that... eventually (only really need to add in the snipetron vandal, you guys already know how the lanka and dread do against them (just scroll up))

 

Now, as for the "spoilers" I was refering to up top. 

I'm sure you all recognize the "overkill" damage dealt by snipers, and question how many of you have actually gotten to the point where your sniper stopped doing this.  For most, while still hitting vulnerabilities, this doesn't happen until approx lvl 150+ enemies.  Since most of you are fighting lvl 30-60 (possible a bit higher, but I wouldn't bet money on it) and making your comparisons there, you end up being a bit skewed.  Since the snipers will function pretty much the same (do consistant one hit kills) regardless of enemy level, up until maybe lvl 150, you basically come out with the result of "they scale excelently" since their "kills per interval" never drops off (they're still killing things, so it's always flat). 

 

Now, lets take a look at rifles.  Would you compare the grakata to the supra on a lvl 10 enemy or a lvl 50 enemy?  And why is that?  Obviously, as enemies get stronger, the rifles need to take more time to shoot each target.  However, as the game currently his, some of the stronger rifles still don't have to shoot for very long at some of the strongest enemies currently in the game (like a 3 second phorid kill or something? lol). 

 

So basically the point I'm trying to make is: snipers don't have proper targets in the game to use their full potential.  Go down to lvl 1-10 enemies and your sniper will perform just the same as on lvl 90-100 enemies; it'll still be doing one hit kills.  Do you really think an mk1 bratan is better than a sniper?  Well, I'd argue that even as high as lvl 20 enemies it would. 

 

Until I get my proper dps tables working and do a lot more calculations on the spreadsheet, we won't really know exactly what numbers we're looking at for snipers finally taking the lead over rifles (if they ever do), but as far as current content goes, yeah, our weapons are way too overpowered for this level of stuff, and because of the way snipers function, they down scale down very well. 

Edited July 10, 2013 by lstalri

[cary2010haha]

46000, so weak, even with my paris in head shot + sonar i make 51 k....

picture, and in single number

 

 

and yes, i also agree lanka needs primed chamber, but now lanka couldn't use it, lose , indeed

Edited July 10, 2013 by Cary2010haha

[cary2010haha]

counting dps for snipers is useless, sinper use to be one shot one kill weapons, DPH may help

 

At now, lanka lose to all sniper, becase they all can use primed chamber, all other sniper's damage count in *2 in frist shot, and that owns lanka

[lstalri]

At now, lanka lose to all sniper, becase they all can use primed chamber, all other sniper's damage count in *2 in frist shot, and that owns lanka

A) it loses for 100 people who have the mod

B) that's a bug, soon to be fixed

C) DPH tables... lanka isn't bad, scroll up/back

[cary2010haha]

A) it loses for 100 people who have the mod

B) that's a bug, soon to be fixed

C) DPH tables... lanka isn't bad, scroll up/back

i just WANT to see B) FIXED

 

 

C) It's always the best if not crit. before that chamber mod comes, and i want lanka still the best in numbers

[lstalri]

C) It's always the best if not crit. before that chamber mod comes, and i want lanka still the best in numbers

You're preaching to the choir... I made those tables T.T

[LazerusKI]

Dread does not have a % damage for its charge time.  It's either fully charged or it's not.  So basically anything in between is a complete waste of time.

I know, i know ;)

Lowlevel enemies can be killed without charge, but if you have speed trigger installed, the chargetime is not high anyway.

 

This brings me to a whole new topic which I'll discuss at the end of the post.  It's true in some respects, but those respects include the idea that an mk1 bratan could do the same thing.  Scroll down for spoilers.

Could work on Mercury :P

 

And here's where you're completely wrong.  Dread is not a hybrid at all (just look at the numbers I've posted to prove it).  If you are fighting enemies that you can kill without charging your dread, scroll down for the spoilers.  If you are charging your dread, using it to its true potential (and obviously not using thunderbolt for the 30% chance to throw all hope of awesome damage out the window), it falls into the same area as lanka and snipetron do.

Yes, i thought a few minutes if i should call the Dread a Hybrid. It was jsut based on its "tap" ability.

It can charge for full damage, but it does not need it against some enemys. That was my intention behind it.

 

ok, so hit-scan no-skill sniping aside, the lanka and the snipetron have extremely similar fire rates (They actually turn out to be exactly the same, 1.5 (to shoot for the snipetron, to charge for the lanka.

I think you are wrong here. Snipetron has a RoF of 1.5, i dont think this means "1.5s between shots", if it would, Twin Vipers would be realy awkward with 25.0

I think its the amount of shots per second.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Lao3waCeE&feature=youtu.be

Snipetron is faster. way faster. took me ~4s to shoot 6 Snipetron Bullets and ~16s to shoot 6 Lanka Charges

 

The real difference is the damage type they do and how it scales with mods.  Since an AP base obviously has an advantage against grineer and an electrical base has an obvious advantage against corpus, the only true target to compare all snipers on a relatively even table (to remove dreads slicing damage to light infested as well) is on ancients.

Dont know how the scaling works now.

AP had no scaling armor at all, while all the others had.

After the Resistance Rework it could be even now, but i just dont know.

I think you had a table agaisnt level 200 enemys, where you could see that Lanka and Dread had the same AP damage, while the rest of the damage was 0.

 

Since the snipers will function pretty much the same (do consistant one hit kills) regardless of enemy level, up until maybe lvl 150, you basically come out with the result of "they scale excelently" since their "kills per interval" never drops off (they're still killing things, so it's always flat). 

Think the highest level of non-defense enemys would be T3, ~90.

In my opinion its not a problem with "highlevel scaling" because you can oneshot them,

in my opinion its a problem with "lowlevel scaling" because...realy...150k damage...how many times could i kill a level 15 Runner with this?

 

However, as the game currently his, some of the stronger rifles still don't have to shoot for very long at some of the strongest enemies currently in the game (like a 3 second phorid kill or something? lol).

Thats why i mentioned "let them pierce through targets" a few times now.

the damage on a sniper can be as high as you want, a weapon like Gorgon, Supra or even Acrid will outnumber them in DPS. maybe even in ammo efficiency, because they have more ammo than Snipers and need less shots against low-enemys. Some of them can be oneshotted with them too, and whats worth more? 1 of 72 shots (sniper), 1 of 210 (pistol) or 1 of 500 (Assault Rifle)?

 

So basically the point I'm trying to make is: snipers don't have proper targets in the game to use their full potential.  Go down to lvl 1-10 enemies and your sniper will perform just the same as on lvl 90-100 enemies; it'll still be doing one hit kills.

Thats somehow good, but somehow its also bad. as i said, ammo effiiciency, overkill damage etc. there is just no sense in onehitkilling a level 1 enemy with, if a simple secondary pistol like Acrid or Lex can do the same, just with a way bigger efficiency?

And thats exactly the effect we have in defense. It takes a while until your rifle needs more than one shot for them.

And here i have noticed the usefull ragdolling of the bows. saves ammo, time, and provides you free kills. and as a side effect it staggers them.

 

Until I get my proper dps tables working and do a lot more calculations on the spreadsheet, we won't really know exactly what numbers we're looking at for snipers finally taking the lead over rifles (if they ever do), but as far as current content goes, yeah, our weapons are way too overpowered for this level of stuff, and because of the way snipers function, they down scale down very well. 

In my opinion only the bows scale fine against low and high level enemys.

Edited July 10, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Denzine]

This talk about level 150+ enemies is really missing something important: They don't give nearly enough in rewards to make the time spent getting to them worth it, and if the next "endgame" content is forcing me to deal with the horribly unfun thing that is the Lanka in order to make significant progress, then I'm just not gonna bother with it and use the Ogris instead. The mechanics of the Lanka itself are frustrating and bad. It's impossible to see the charge indicator while zoomed in. The sound effect doesn't seem to be timed properly and gets lost in the background noise of the game anyway. There's a short delay where clicking does absolutely nothing, will ruin your rhythm, and there's no indication of it at all- meanwhile bows will charge just fine if you click instantly after releasing.

You can yak about how it's perfect for content that effectively doesn't exist but none of it means anything compared the problems of actually using that horrible thing.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Denzine

[Tatersail]

Damage is meaningless, Both lanka and Snipetron Kill what they shoot at.

 

to Lanka needs to charge, needs to lead its target, needs to Hit a weak spot, needs the mob to be walking at a constant speed with no changes in direction, and has a slight delay on releasing the trigger to the shot being fired.

 

Snipetron, you hover over the target, it dies, then you can instantly swap to the next target, no watching the bullet fly to make sure you judged the wind, the gravitational pull of the moon....

 

 

I am almost sure that the same Rapid fire 9 mod LANKA REQUIRES TO WORK AT A BASIC LEVEL means the snipetron can shoot twice in the same time.

 

 

Making it 200 electric, vs 250 AP.... so math that out on your level 150 mobs.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Tatersail

[LazerusKI]

shown it in my video.

6 Snipetron shots: 4s

6 Lanka Shots: 16s

 

so 4 kills with snipetron against 1 possible kill with lanka.

the high base damage is not realy worth it, not for these costs.

Lower Rapid-Fire Hitscan AP Damage > Higher Charged Traveltime Electric Damage

Edited July 10, 2013 by LazerusKI

[LazerusKI]

did a few tests.

the RoF is based on ingame testing.

for the Snipetron the wiki entry was right, but not for the Lanka

ingame testing showed me, that the effective RoF is much slower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Lao3waCeE

Because of this, the killing power of Snipetron Vandal is higher, even if Lanka deals more damage per shot.

if there is something wrong, please tell me :)

also: the values are not based on ingame vulnerabilities, because agaisnt a corpus head they act both the same, and i dont know how Electrical damage scales with higher level now.

Also i ignored the crit, because they are the same for both.

Edited July 11, 2013 by LazerusKI

[lstalri]

did a few tests.

the RoF is based on ingame testing.

for the Snipetron the wiki entry was right, but not for the Lanka

ingame testing showed me, that the effective RoF is much slower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Lao3waCeE

Because of this, the killing power of Snipetron Vandal is higher, even if Lanka deals more damage per shot.

if there is something wrong, please tell me :)

also: the values are not based on ingame vulnerabilities, because agaisnt a corpus head they act both the same, and i dont know how Electrical damage scales with higher level now.

Also i ignored the crit, because they are the same for both.

I found what's wrong.  Your picture is so small I can't see it. 10/10 major problem needs buffs.  

 

 

I think you are wrong here. Snipetron has a RoF of 1.5, i dont think this means "1.5s between shots", if it would, Twin Vipers would be realy awkward with 25.0

I think its the amount of shots per second.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Lao3waCeE&feature=youtu.be

Snipetron is faster. way faster. took me ~4s to shoot 6 Snipetron Bullets and ~16s to shoot 6 Lanka Charges

I'm 90% sure the Snipetron Vandal's reload speed isn't 2 seconds as well (more like 3.8, just like the normal snipetron).  So, putting respective mods on it, they definitely even out.  I can tell you right off the bat that my lanka does not shoot that slow, and that my snipetron reloads at just about the same speed, both modded.  Since they both require different respective utility mods to come out to just about the same, it works out. 

 

 

Dont know how the scaling works now.

AP had no scaling armor at all, while all the others had.

After the Resistance Rework it could be even now, but i just dont know.

I think you had a table agaisnt level 200 enemys, where you could see that Lanka and Dread had the same AP damage, while the rest of the damage was 0.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Grineer and Infested Crawlers, where everything, everywhere, scales, except for AP. 

 

Think the highest level of non-defense enemys would be T3, ~90.

In my opinion its not a problem with "highlevel scaling" because you can oneshot them,

in my opinion its a problem with "lowlevel scaling" because...realy...150k damage...how many times could i kill a level 15 Runner with this?

 

Thats why i mentioned "let them pierce through targets" a few times now.

the damage on a sniper can be as high as you want, a weapon like Gorgon, Supra or even Acrid will outnumber them in DPS. maybe even in ammo efficiency, because they have more ammo than Snipers and need less shots against low-enemys. Some of them can be oneshotted with them too, and whats worth more? 1 of 72 shots (sniper), 1 of 210 (pistol) or 1 of 500 (Assault Rifle)?

Isn't this exactly what I just said/have been saying and explaining?...

 

Thats somehow good, but somehow its also bad. as i said, ammo effiiciency, overkill damage etc. there is just no sense in onehitkilling a level 1 enemy with, if a simple secondary pistol like Acrid or Lex can do the same, just with a way bigger efficiency?

And thats exactly the effect we have in defense. It takes a while until your rifle needs more than one shot for them.

And here i have noticed the usefull ragdolling of the bows. saves ammo, time, and provides you free kills. and as a side effect it staggers them.

 

In my opinion only the bows scale fine against low and high level enemys.

You're not the first

 

 

And to all of you who keep complaining about the fact that lanka has such bad mechanics and you can't use it, then please, leave now.  As I said already: "hit-scan no-skill sniping aside" (referring to the snipetron).  If you can't get used to firing projectile weapons then you're not skilled enough to use a snipetron, and you probably think the burston is bad to.  Requiring skill to use =/= bad weapon. 

[LazerusKI]

I found what's wrong.  Your picture is so small I can't see it. 10/10 major problem needs buffs.  

Just click on it, its a preview ;)

i will edit it to full size^^

edit: forum messed around with it, now it is full sized.

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w585/LazerusKI/chart_zpsdb6df805.png

I'm 90% sure the Snipetron Vandal's reload speed isn't 2 seconds as well (more like 3.8, just like the normal snipetron).  So, putting respective mods on it, they definitely even out.  I can tell you right off the bat that my lanka does not shoot that slow, and that my snipetron reloads at just about the same speed, both modded.  Since they both require different respective utility mods to come out to just about the same, it works out.

For my "test" i have used the base speeds

 

Isn't this exactly what I just said/have been saying and explaining?...

mh?

 

You're not the first

With our playerbase it would be somehow weird if i would.

 

And to all of you who keep complaining about the fact that lanka has such bad mechanics and you can't use it, then please, leave now.  As I said already: "hit-scan no-skill sniping aside" (referring to the snipetron).  If you can't get used to firing projectile weapons then you're not skilled enough to use a snipetron, and you probably think the burston is bad to.  Requiring skill to use =/= bad weapon. 

The mechanic is realy not bad, the moving plasma projectile is fun to use (and it looks nice), in fact it is nearly the same we have on bows, just without bulletdrop. Never used the Burston, not because it is "bad", i just dont like Burst-Rifles^^

Lanka just needs some love, yes it deals high damage, but there is nothing where it benefits from, because of the slow RoF and the singletarget only. Also the element is not the best.

Higher RoF would then again not fit (i mean, its a charged plasma rifle, defined as Railgun), even more damage would solve nothing, the killing power would stay the same. puncture or aoe would be two suggestion that could solve this problem and made it fit for a high-tier rifle.

Hope my Ogris is ready soon, want to try to snipe with it^^

but yeah, i think everything about it was said now, no reason to say it again and again.

lets jsut hope for some DE Magic :)

Edited July 11, 2013 by LazerusKI

[lstalri]

Just click on it, its a preview ;)

i will edit it to full size^^

edit: forum messed around with it, now it is full sized.

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w585/LazerusKI/chart_zpsdb6df805.png

What the hell did you use for your target, and why the hell is the final row titled "*RoF" for the lanka so ridiculously high...

Using a corpus head would theoretically work, since they both get 4x damage to it, but obviously the 75 bonus damage for the lanka would cause it to win 10/10, so no point in doing that. 

 

EDIT:

Yeah, I just went ingame and did some rough testing (counting in my head (one onethousand, two onethousand, etc.)) and came up to really close to 3.8 seconds for the snipetron vandal... And very close to 2 seconds for the lanka (felt closer to like 2.2 seconds, but I could just be counting badly.  I know I was counting the same for both though, so snipetron vandal's reload is definitely much longer than lanka's). 

Edited July 11, 2013 by lstalri

[Denzine]

I found what's wrong.  Your picture is so small I can't see it. 10/10 major problem needs buffs.  

 

 

I'm 90% sure the Snipetron Vandal's reload speed isn't 2 seconds as well (more like 3.8, just like the normal snipetron).  So, putting respective mods on it, they definitely even out.  I can tell you right off the bat that my lanka does not shoot that slow, and that my snipetron reloads at just about the same speed, both modded.  Since they both require different respective utility mods to come out to just about the same, it works out. 

 

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of Grineer and Infested Crawlers, where everything, everywhere, scales, except for AP. 

 

Isn't this exactly what I just said/have been saying and explaining?...

 

You're not the first

 

 

And to all of you who keep complaining about the fact that lanka has such bad mechanics and you can't use it, then please, leave now.  As I said already: "hit-scan no-skill sniping aside" (referring to the snipetron).  If you can't get used to firing projectile weapons then you're not skilled enough to use a snipetron, and you probably think the burston is bad to.  Requiring skill to use =/= bad weapon. 

 

I just went into M Prime with a stopwatch. The Vandal's reload time is 2 seconds without mods.

 

Your shot at me and others at the end here is just sad. Respond to the criticism of its charge indicator being impossible to see while zoomed(on a sniper weapon!), the invisible no-click period that no other sniper weapon shares(unless you count Ogris, which really would be fair enough), and the charging sound effect being really bad at indicating a full charge in basically all circumstances. Don't just hide behind "skill" when someone is pointing out that the mechanics of the thing are a wall for anyone wanting to gain that skill besides the most stubborn players. Being able to deal with the endless annoyance of bad design is not skill.

 

 

 

The mechanic is realy not bad, in fact it is nearly the same we have on bows. Never used the Burston, not because it is "bad", i just dont like Burst-Rifles^^

 

The bows don't share the invisible no-click problem or the bad charge indicators. You can click and hold whenever you like after releasing the shot and your Tenno won't ignore your input, You can also see when your bow is charged even while aimed- well, unless you slot a maxed Eagle Eye for some reason. Bows still should have a proper charge indicator, though, just for usability's sake.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Denzine

[LazerusKI]

What the hell did you use for your target, and why the hell is the final row titled "*RoF" for the lanka so ridiculously high...

Using a corpus head would theoretically work, since they both get 4x damage to it, but obviously the 75 bonus damage for the lanka would cause it to win 10/10, so no point in doing that.

I have just used the basic mod stats, no target at all.

75points more damage (1*200=200) of a bad element that is only effective against corpus

VS

4 projectile with 75 less damage (4*125=300) and the best Element so far with no real weakness

...Snipetron would win in Killing Power.

Lanka would always win in Singleshot DPS against corpus.

But snipetron can kill 4 enemys of whatever kind in the same time that Lanka needs for one.

I would chose Snipetron. The same reason on Dread - faster, more hits.

 

Yeah, I just went ingame and did some rough testing (counting in my head (one onethousand, two onethousand, etc.)) and came up to really close to 3.8 seconds for the snipetron vandal... And very close to 2 seconds for the lanka (felt closer to like 2.2 seconds, but I could just be counting badly.  I know I was counting the same for both though, so snipetron vandal's reload is definitely much longer than lanka's).

for my counting i made a video (linked somewhere above) where i looked at the time.

both weapons 6 shots, so i have not used the reload time. all i have noticed was, that Snipetron Vandal can shoot 4 times while lanka shoots 1 bolt.

reload time feels the same for me.

 

The bows don't share the invisible no-click problem or the bad charge indicators. You can click and hold whenever you like after releasing the shot and your Tenno won't ignore your input, You can also see when your bow is charged even while aimed- well, unless you slot a maxed Eagle Eye for some reason. Bows still should have a proper charge indicator, though, just for usability's sake.

yes, yes thats true. i meant only the shooting mechanic (charge, flight time), not the visual problem.

i have noticed the indicator/charge bug in another thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/72750-charge-weapon-mechanic-visual-crosshair-indicator/

how many times have i lsot my charge even if it was allready glowing...

Edited July 11, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Denzine]

yes, yes thats true. i meant only the shooting mechanic (charge, flight time), not the visual problem.

i have noticed the indicator/charge bug in another thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/72750-charge-weapon-mechanic-visual-crosshair-indicator/

how many times have i lsot my charge even if it was allready glowing...

 

Ah, I see. Yeah I like the flight time well enough, it's just... Everything else about it is incredibly frustrating for no good reason.

[lstalri]

Primarily for the sake of "lawl that's awesome" more than actually proving anything... my squad left me on wave 30 and I didn't notice (I alt+tabbed), but I wasn't done yet!  I solo'd wave 30-35 with my trusty frost and lanka alone.  Man, that was fun...

 

http://puu.sh/3AsWM

http://puu.sh/3AsXO

[LazerusKI]

nice ;)

lucky for you, you had frost^^

i dont wnat to say that lanka is a bad weapon, its fun, its strong, it looks cool...but compare them to other rifles and you see that its not that awesome :s

as i said in the PN with you, to outnumber Snipetron Vandal, Lanka would need to have 500 damage per shot.

So, Lanka does not have a "chargetime" of 1,5s, its more like 2,5s, think the 1s delay from the RoF of 1 is added to the 1,5s chargetime too.

so, its the slowest rifle ingame with the lowest DPS from all of them (Category: Rifle, lets not count the Bows, they act different to the rifles).

 

Vulkar 125*1,5 = 187,5dps Normal

Snipetron 100*1,5 = 150dps AP

Snipetron Vandal 125*1,5 = 187,5dps AP

Lanka 200*0,4 = 80dps AP

just for the fun:

Lex 70*1,1 = 77dps

Acrid 25 Base, 4x 75% DoT = 300% -> 25+75=100. 100*6,7 = 670dps

Dera 22*11,3 = 248,6 dps Laser

Supra 35*12,5 = 437,5dps Normal

 

in the time Lanka deals one shot with 200 Electric damage, Snipetron Vandal can score 4 shots each with 125 AP, so 500 damage.

And in my opinion...a slow shooting Rifle without the ability to hit multiple enemys...does not fit for our fast-gameplay

Edited July 11, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

Lazeruski, pick an ogris and an acrid, and rape all the map, that's all :) bye

[LazerusKI]

Lazeruski, pick an ogris and an acrid, and rape all the map, that's all :) bye

thats what i want to do this weekend, build the Ogris and BAM in ya face xD

Acris is the beast of pistols. isnt it even the strongest sidearm now? even Twin Vipers have only 400dps NOT Armor Ignoring.

the weird thing is, that Ogris is the cheapest of these 3^^

If everything wents fine, i can build my Ogris tomorrow.

and after that the Flux, then Supra, then Ignis...then i have them all^^

 

with the 80dps lanka has, i think even the flux could be more usefull, because you have a better (Armor Ignoring/Slashing) damage-control with it, with the same dps, but shorter range.

Maybe there is something in Update 9^^ Lets hope :)

 

Btw...how awesome would it be to run around with Vauban und Nova, two hightech frames holding hands, one Equipped with a Railgun, the other one with a Gatling-Laser, and together they teach the enemy the beauty of Technology...the hard way :)

(Im realy interested in the Synergy of Vortex and Novas-Uber)

 

Ok, i say bye for now too, need to sleep^^

Edited July 11, 2013 by LazerusKI

[cary2010haha]

nice ;)

lucky for you, you had frost^^

i dont wnat to say that lanka is a bad weapon, its fun, its strong, it looks cool...but compare them to other rifles and you see that its not that awesome :s

as i said in the PN with you, to outnumber Snipetron Vandal, Lanka would need to have 500 damage per shot.

So, Lanka does not have a "chargetime" of 1,5s, its more like 2,5s, think the 1s delay from the RoF of 1 is added to the 1,5s chargetime too.

so, its the slowest rifle ingame with the lowest DPS from all of them (Category: Rifle, lets not count the Bows, they act different to the rifles).

 

Vulkar 125*1,5 = 187,5dps Normal

Snipetron 100*1,5 = 150dps AP

Snipetron Vandal 125*1,5 = 187,5dps AP

Lanka 200*0,4 = 80dps AP

just for the fun:

Lex 70*1,1 = 77dps

Acrid 25 Base, 4x 75% DoT = 300% -> 25+75=100. 100*6,7 = 670dps

Dera 22*11,3 = 248,6 dps Laser

Supra 35*12,5 = 437,5dps Normal

 

in the time Lanka deals one shot with 200 Electric damage, Snipetron Vandal can score 4 shots each with 125 AP, so 500 damage.

And in my opinion...a slow shooting Rifle without the ability to hit multiple enemys...does not fit for our fast-gameplay

Acrid DPS wrong, 

 

Acrid dps

NON-DOT DPS: ((25*0.975)+(25*0.025*1.5))*6.7=169.59375

NON-DOT DPS WITH RELOAD:(169.59375*(15/6.7))/(15/6.7)+1.2)=110.41259765625

 

DOT DPS :18.75*6.7*4=125.625

DOT DPS WITH RELOAD: 125.625*2.3/3.5=82.55357142857143

 

OVERALLDPS : 110.41259765625+82.55357142857143=192.9661690848214

 

 

 

SUPRA:

 

DPS: (35*0.975)+(35*0.025*1.5)*12.5=442.96875

DPS WITH RELOAD: 442.96875(90/12.5)/(90/12.5)+4.2)=279.7697368421053

 

 

 

and don't compare sinper in dps, they use for one shot one kill, so plz DPH

Edited July 12, 2013 by Cary2010haha