[SPOILERS] Feedback On the new Riven Mods system

[Stonehenge]

3 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

so knowing what you know now - that you could potentially loose out for investing kuva  in your mods - would you do it ?

 

Yep, absolutely, depending in fact of what weapons and benefits. Some of them won't interest me, others will certainly do.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Stonehenge

[Santiak]

7 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

in a grind game you grind to win and get items or experience or whatever your grinding for - in the riven system - you are grinding for a chance to loose

 

I personally don't think a chance at loosing is inherently a bad thing. It can add a lot of excitement and encourage players to seriously contemplate whether or not to go ahead with a choice, rather than just aimlessly and blindly throwing time and money at a mechanic.

However, if that's your main gripe with the system: They could always implement a "revert" mechanic, where you'd be presented with the new stats versus the old, and could pick which you'd prefer. Whichever you choose, the ressources you spent are consumed.

Edit: I'm almost bordering on suggesting an added cost for refusing the new stats, i.e. a ranked mod will become unranked but with old stats, encouraging players to at least try to contemplate experimenting with less-than-obviously powerful modifiers. But that's my personal preference. (If it wasn't clear up until now; I do love me some risk/reward mechanics ^^)
 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Santiak

[PvtMaguire]

6 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

Yep, absolutely, depending in fact of what weapons and benefits. Some of them won't interest me, others will certainly do.

BAM you've been hit with 2 negative cycles in a row - are you satisfied that you  spent your 1800 well ? Of course not - it took time to farm that kuva and you wanted your mods to get better but they got worse and you dont get that kuva back. you've just lost an "ok" mod and a rare resource for investing your time into a grind game which is supposed to reward you for exactly that (Also the benefis of that mod have changed to be useless for your weapon)

Edited November 13, 2016 by PvtMaguire

[PvtMaguire]

1 minute ago, Santiak said:

I personally don't think a chance at loosing is inherently a bad thing. It can add a lot of excitement and encourage players to seriously contemplate whether or not to go ahead with a choice, rather than just aimlessly and blindly throwing time and money at a mechanic.

However, if that's your main gripe with the system: They could always implement a "revert" mechanic, where you'd be presented with the new stats versus the old, and could pick which you'd prefer. Whichever you choose, the ressources you spent are consumed.
 

i would absolutely not have a problem with that system because atleast you wouldnt have lost what you have already grinded for

[Stonehenge]

3 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

BAM you've been hit with 2 negative cycles in a row - are you satisfied that you  spent your 1800 well ? Of course not - it took time to farm that kuva and you wanted your mods to get better but they got worse and you dont get that kuva back. you've just lost an "ok" mod and a rare resource for investing your time into a grind game which is supposed to reward you for exactly that

Yeeah, yeah, yeah i get it, you are pissed off. BAM, as you said. Don't worry for me, i 'll find a way to enjoy the risks i take without writing a topic about how i'm angry if i loose what i farmed. Cheers mate.

[Multicom-EN-]

If the damn guards and kuva thingy spawned on every mission in the fortress sabotage missions or whatever, I wouldn't really care. But the way the RNG is now.....just no.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Multicom-EN-

[PvtMaguire]

1 minute ago, Stonehenge said:

Yeeah, yeah, yeah i get it, you are pissed off. BAM, as you said. Don't worry for me, i 'll find a way to enjoy the risks i take without writing a topic about how i'm angry if i loose what i farmed. Cheers mate.

I'm angry but im not complaining to the community or the developers for I understand that people have worked hard in order for  this system to be put in place - that being said the system in my opinion is a bad one which i disagree with and so i have written a topic on the forum so that it might be seen and the problems with the system which i earlier listed might be addressed and therefore the system may be changed by the developers - this isn't a hate topic, its angry feedback

[PvtMaguire]

1 minute ago, Multicom-EN- said:

If the damn guards and kuva thingy spawned on every mission I wouldn't really care. But the way the RNG is now.....just no.

an increase in spawn rates would help but really you would still be plagued with the fact that youve lost the mod you farmed earlier and what youve farmed now in return for a worse mod

 

[Multicom-EN-]

1 minute ago, PvtMaguire said:

an increase in spawn rates would help but really you would still be plagued with the fact that youve lost the mod you farmed earlier and what youve farmed now in return for a worse mod

 

Yeah. The riven mods are a joke in it's current state.

[Santiak]

1 minute ago, PvtMaguire said:

BAM you've been hit with 2 negative cycles in a row - are you satisfied that you  spent your 1800 well ? Of course not - it took time to farm that kuva and you wanted your mods to get better but they got worse and you dont get that kuva back. you've just lost an "ok" mod and a rare resource for investing your time into a grind game which is supposed to reward you for exactly that

The thing is, some people actually like that, because it brings excitement to the choice that they're making. :)
Same reason people gamble, do extreme sports, or discuss on forums (;P) - the very real possibility that something can go wrong and cost you dearly, makes winning so much sweeter.
It's a subjective thing that we'll never agree on, I think, but we don't have to agree in order to find a compromise both parties can be content with. ^^


 

1 minute ago, PvtMaguire said:

i would absolutely not have a problem with that system because atleast you wouldnt have lost what you have already grinded for

Coolio :)


So, to remedy the "grinds" lack of choice and high-risk, without taking it to the extremes and removing either entirely, they could:

1. Add Resource X/Y/Z to increase chance of A/B/C type modifiers (e.g. Neurodes -> +status proc, +toxic% OR -crit damage, -reload speed.. Salvage -> +ammo cap, +clip cap, reload speed OR -damage, refire rate, and so on).
1.1. Added resource amounts determine chances, exact amounts would have to be tested. Possilby diminishing returns? -- e.g. 10k => 10%, 20k => 15%, 40k => 17,5%.

2. Add a "Reject" mechanic, where you're shown New vs Old stats, and get to pick which one to go with.
2.1. You lose all resources invested either way
2.2. You (possibly) lose all ranks on the mod either way.(?)

- Gives players a degree of control over the outcome, but doesn't afford any certainty on exactly what outcome (i.e. could still be a negative one if you used extra Neurodes)
- Removes some of the risk, but with an incentive to try out modifiers that are less than optimal (to avoid wasting Endo, for example).
- Open to adding balancing factors later on: Increased resource costs the more you redo the same mod without taking the new stats, increased resource costs if some stats turn out to be too overpowered in Damage 3.0, and so on.

[Tesseract7777]

LOL asking them to "just remove it" is completely unrealistic. 

 

They spent a lot of time on it and they aren't going to just up and take it out of the game because you say so. 

 

List specifically what is wrong with the Riven mod system, and what you would do to fix it. That kind of feedback is valuable to them and often leads to real changes in game. But screaming to have it taken away will get us nowhere fast. 

[PvtMaguire]

8 minutes ago, Santiak said:

The thing is, some people actually like that, because it brings excitement to the choice that they're making. :)
Same reason people gamble, do extreme sports, or discuss on forums (;P) - the very real possibility that something can go wrong and cost you dearly, makes winning so much sweeter.
It's a subjective thing that we'll never agree on, I think, but we don't have to agree in order to find a compromise both parties can be content with. ^^
 

I can totally understand where you are coming from however in my opinion the rewards do not outweigh the risks: for example you bet on a horse race and u invest 20 and if you win you get 100. if you lose you have lost 20 but if you win you have gained 4 times that amount, 80

heres the riven system (and btw there are a lot of factors but the relative chance for an increase or decrease in benefits (If the stats dont change type) is around 50%) so you invest a good mod and 900 kuva - if you win you get a Good mod but if you lose you get a bad mod and the kuva you invested was wasted.(also you lose the "OK" mod you had before)

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by PvtMaguire

[PvtMaguire]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

LOL asking them to "just remove it" is completely unrealistic. 

 

They spent a lot of time on it and they aren't going to just up and take it out of the game because you say so. 

 

List specifically what is wrong with the Riven mod system, and what you would do to fix it. That kind of feedback is valuable to them and often leads to real changes in game. But screaming to have it taken away will get us nowhere fast. 

i have earlier in this feed

 

[ZoneDymo]

I love the Riven Mods, hell my only problem is for them to possible be way too OP considering what some people on the Wiki showed they got.
Its fun that you dont know what you are getting, I wanna keep it just as is.

This is again one of those times where it seems appropriate to say, Dont like it? well dont use it, nobody is forcing you to.

Edited November 13, 2016 by ZoneDymo

[Separius]

1 hour ago, Imaru said:

Then don't use the system.

He wasn't talking about whether he liked using it or not, he was giving criticism of the system.

1 hour ago, Imaru said:

I don't see what the problem here is.

That's impossible. He explained what he had a gripe with, that being the ratio of effort invested into rerolling a mod, and the probability of achieving the desired outcome.

And I agree with OP, it's way more time consuming and tedious to reroll mods in this game, than other tedious things like... say, buying stuff from Kadala for blood shards in D3, and that's horrible as well. At least that has less RNG involved.

[Greyjack]

River mod for the war within:First step,3 headshots in a single aim glide.....

seriously,the developers can make this things better,or easier maybe at last.

[Tesseract7777]

3 minutes ago, PvtMaguire said:

i have earlier in this feed

 

 

In that case great, but I would still suggest amending the thread title and original post because right now your title isn't likely to get much attention from the devs... I am just being honest here. Some of them have said they don't read directly, in your face negative feedback, so this thread may not even be read. On the other hand, if the title and op are simply suggesting changes to make it better, they will be more likely to catalog it as feedback and possibly change it. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[PvtMaguire]

2 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

I love the Riven Mods, hell my only problem is for them to possible be way too OP considering what some people on the Wiki showed they got.

Its fun that you dont know what you are getting, I wanna keep it just as is

the people on the wiki are probably 1/1000 or more - the likelyhood you get a mod like theirs is so low - however the chance your mod gets worse is a lot higher

[PvtMaguire]

5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 

In that case great, but I would still suggest amending the thread title and original post because right now your title isn't likely to get much attention from the devs... I am just being honest here. Some of them have said they don't read directly, in your face negative feedback, so this thread may not even be read. On the other hand, if the title and op are simply suggesting changes to make it better, they will be more likely to catalog it as feedback and possibly change it. 

ty for feedbacking on my feedback :) (btw i totally forgot how to change the name :3)

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by PvtMaguire

[PvtMaguire]

16 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

This is again one of those times where it seems appropriate to say, Dont like it? well dont use it, nobody is forcing you to.

If most people dont like it and dont use it why is it in the game ? - if everyone stayed quiet about what was wrong witht the game then the game would NEVER EVER progress to what it has become - E.G the Universal vacuum nerf to 6m - people gave feedback(partially crying and hurling death threats which is totally inappropriate) and it got changed back to 12. we as the community (partially) shape the game

Edited November 13, 2016 by PvtMaguire

[Master-Raptor]

like the other guys said if not like'it not use'it, a lot of people include mereally like'it this new method and for me is fantastic, and all of our alliance clans liket it too, we all playing together to try to get more mods in sorties, but not all updates gonna like you, but only a few people not gonna make a change when the most o mayority like all new things in the game, good luck 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Master-Raptor

[ZoneDymo]

On 11/13/2016 at 3:48 AM, PvtMaguire said:

If most people dont like it and dont use it why is it in the game ? - if everyone stayed quiet about what was wrong witht the game then the game would NEVER EVER progress to what it has become - E.G the Universal vacuum nerf to 6m - people gave feedback(partially crying and hurling death threats which is totally inappropriate) and it got changed back to 12. we as the community (partially) shape the game

Its funny that you mention the universal vaquum mod specifically seeing as that is a prime example of "dont like it, dont use it" as everyone and their mother liked the Vaquum function so much 80+% of the community used Carrier and carrier only, making DE change it so the others become more interesting to use....  kinda like how Riven mods can rejuvenate older outdated weapons...crazy I know.

[(PSN)CactusButtons]

Instead of farming kuva till u get enough to cycle your riven once, try farming Kuva over n over to get any accumulative amount then go in and cycle the riven 3-8 times. Doesn't seem as heartbreaking this way, and 7-10 times I get at least 2 of the stats I'm looking to get.