Stamina Is Useless And We Need Stagger Resistance, Let's Fix Both.

[Kinperor]

I was thinking about Stamina lately and how it's mainly un-noticeable, the only thing it does is slow you down a little by forcing you to stop sprinting, and yet all the mods made to enhance stamina (quicker recovery, more stamina, etc) are defensive, probably to allow tanks to keep up with faster frames, but even then it's not that helpful.

 

Either the faster frames will be slowed down by meanies to beat, or they'll run right pass them and the tanks will be left scrambling to outrun the enemies where a larger pool of stamina won't be as useful as Rush.

 

My suggestion to fix that is to make stamina the stat that determines how well you resist to staggers effect: The more stamina you have when you're hit, the better you resist staggers. That way, tanks have a way to do more than just being beaten to a pulp while 3 or 4 chargers bash him and stun-lock him for hours on end. That also gives more choices when deciding which defensive mods to use, as opposed to using more shield/health/armor. 

 

At the very least, stamina could be the "base" stagger resist, while you can get more resist from other specialized mods. 

[Corpy]

 

 

My suggestion to fix that is to make stamina the stat that determines how well you resist to staggers effect: The more stamina you have when you're hit, the better you resist staggers. That way, tanks have a way to do more than just being beaten to a pulp while 3 or 4 chargers bash him and stun-lock him for hours on end. That also gives more choices when deciding which defensive mods to use, as opposed to using more shield/health/armor. 

 

At the very least, stamina could be the "base" stagger resist, while you can get more resist from other specialized mods. 

But then that would defeat the purpose of "handspring"

[Kinperor]

Handspring is when you already fell to the ground, that would be to stay longer on your feet. 

[http404error]

Handspring doesn't affect stagger, only knockdown.

 

How about if you have enough stamina, it spends that stamina to negate the stagger or at least reduce its effect a lot?

[ArcSynder]

A very interesting idea. I wouldn't mind seeing stamina stats becoming more useful

[Kinperor]

Handspring doesn't affect stagger, only knockdown.

 

How about if you have enough stamina, it spends that stamina to negate the stagger or at least reduce its effect a lot?

 

I was thinking it would consume some stamina to resist stagger, yes. That would help balance it out so that  tanks don't become un-flinching walls of meat. 

[http404error]

I was thinking it would consume some stamina to resist stagger, yes. That would help balance it out so that  tanks don't become un-flinching walls of meat. 

 

Sounds like a brilliant idea to me! Hm, perhaps this could be integrated into a blocking rework.

[AttackNitro]

I hate all these threads titled: "a fix" for whatever. And everything in the thread is stated as fact when it is opinion based.

 

OP, you talk about how "tanks" only function being "beaten to a pulp while 3 or 4 chargers bash him and stun-lock him for hours on end."

 

Well as far as i know the only "tanks" are trinity and rhino (and possibly frost).

 

Trinity and Rhino both have stagger immunity skills - Link and Iron Skin. In other words if you are getting stun locked, then you are playing wrong.

 

If using your abilities is too hard for you, equip a heavy melee weapon and get swinging (normal swings provide stagger immunity on heavy melee weapons)

[Notso]

This is a very interesting idea, I think it could work well

[TheCometCE]

I actually like that idea, combined with the one below the OP, using stamina to mitigate stagger sounds like a great idea

[Kinperor]

I hate all these threads titled: "a fix" for whatever. And everything in the thread is stated as fact when it is opinion based.

 

OP, you talk about how "tanks" only function being "beaten to a pulp while 3 or 4 chargers bash him and stun-lock him for hours on end."

 

Well as far as i know the only "tanks" are trinity and rhino (and possibly frost).

 

Trinity and Rhino both have stagger immunity skills - Link and Iron Skin. In other words if you are getting stun locked, then you are playing wrong.

 

If using your abilities is too hard for you, equip a heavy melee weapon and get swinging (normal swings provide stagger immunity on heavy melee weapons)

 

Well now, look who is talking as if his opinion was a fact.

 

I was suggesting a solution to both make stamina useful while fixing the stagger that annoys a lot of people (myself included), not just fixing the stagger. And while Rhino AND Trin do have anti-staggers built in, Loki doesn't, neither does Ash or Excal which are all expected to go in neck-deep. Beside, adding that property to stamina would make other kind of tanks viable, without forcing a "press X, become immovable" button in their kit.

 

In addition to all that, it would actually make the "trade-offs" of "less stamina for X stat" significant, instead of the jokes they are now. With that change, they would actually become more vulnerable, as opposed to running for a shorter amount of time. Heck, Ash would also get more out of his helmet than some some stamina that doesn't help him so much right now.

 

@ other posters: Thanks for supporting. 

Edited June 30, 2013 by Kinperor

[Zarrazheno]

Yes, yes, a million times yes.

[MJ12]

So running doesn't consume stamina, but being staggered takes stamina (instead of forcing a stagger) and maneuvers such as blocking, wallrunning, dodging, and so on, consume stamina?

 

Would work way better than the current system, yes.

[AsianJoyKiller]

But then that would defeat the purpose of "handspring"

Handspring shouldn't be a God damned mod in the first place. It should have just been a fix patched into the game and inherent.

[Kinperor]

So running doesn't consume stamina, but being staggered takes stamina (instead of forcing a stagger) and maneuvers such as blocking, wallrunning, dodging, and so on, consume stamina?

 

Would work way better than the current system, yes.

 

Actually I think running should still consume stamina, so that people can't just run in front of a grineer and resist his buttstock stagger because he didn't use any stamina to run in range, and then he just runs back to safety. 

 

I wouldn't mind if stamina wasn't consumed for sprint, but I think it would be more balanced to keep sprinting as it is right now.

[PositronicSpleen]

In other words, a regenerating pool of stagger and/or knockdown resistance. Basically just like poise in Dark Souls.

 

I could get behind the idea. Stamina doesn't often get used up in combat since you can't sprint and shoot, it only gets used in non-combat where it's an annoyance at best, or at worst detrimental since it can work to split up the party. I only notice it when it makes me fall off my wallrun. I just slide if I need more while running, that's almost instinct at this point.

 

Then make sprint automatic and turn the sprint button into the walk button. Whoa, it's like UT2004 all over again, I like it. They'd have to fix some of the broken sprinting-while-turning animations and the ridiculous amounts of rolling and fall-stun though.

Edited July 1, 2013 by PositronicSpleen

[MXXVI]

Alternatively, make armour more useful:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/68889-suggestion-armour-staggerknockdown-reduction/

 

 

Because tbh, you talk about making tanks more viable... but the "tank" Warframes don't have any kind of innate stamina bonus. In fact, their slow speed results in them using more stamina for sprinting than any lighter warframe.

 

What they do have, is higher armour.

Edited July 1, 2013 by MXXVI

[Kinperor]

Alternatively, make armour more useful:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/68889-suggestion-armour-staggerknockdown-reduction/

 

 

Because tbh, you talk about making tanks more viable... but the "tank" Warframes don't have any kind of innate stamina bonus. In fact, their slow speed results in them using more stamina for sprinting than any lighter warframe.

 

What they do have, is higher armour.

 

True, tanks don't have more innate stamina, but that can be changed. But what the tanks do have right now is defensive (D) polarities, and the mods that give more stamina or more stamina recovery are branded defensive mods, so tanks already have the polarities to equip those without using forma or a potato. 

 

As for armour, I am all for making it more viable if it needs it, but right now I'm talking about stamina. Of course, there is more options than what I suggested, but I still think it would be a viable use for stamina. And as I said in OP, stamina could always be just the base factor of stagger resist, armor could be another factor, or even health for example. 

[krisp]

Just remake the stamina system to be more like Dark Souls: blocking damages it, blocking with 0 or less stamina staggers you, getting hit with 0 or less stamina knocks you down, and it's possible to have negative stamina which translates into more time until your stamina regenerates back to positive values (when it starts working again). Then make blocking more useful by allowing it to circumvent knockdowns and reduce damage from all (normal) attacks, not just bullets. That means including melee

 

Then make armor affect the stamina drain from blocking and voila! Two useless things made into two useful things. Game depth increased, some frustration removed. Awesome idea, why haven't they implemented it yet.

[Kinperor]

Just remake the stamina system to be more like Dark Souls: blocking damages it, blocking with 0 or less stamina staggers you, getting hit with 0 or less stamina knocks you down, and it's possible to have negative stamina which translates into more time until your stamina regenerates back to positive values (when it starts working again). Then make blocking more useful by allowing it to circumvent knockdowns and reduce damage from all (normal) attacks, not just bullets. That means including melee

 

Then make armor affect the stamina drain from blocking and voila! Two useless things made into two useful things. Game depth increased, some frustration removed. Awesome idea, why haven't they implemented it yet.

 

I've yet to see any point to blocking personally, and while I wouldn't exactly copy-paste Dark Souls' stamina system (great game btw), we can indeed get some inspiration from it. Poise would be indeed a nice thing to have.

 

Also, U9, as you may have heard, will be an update of polishing, so we can expect a lot of QOL buffs in the future, as well as some tweaking. 

[krisp]

Also, U9, as you may have heard, will be an update of polishing, so we can expect a lot of QOL buffs in the future, as well as some tweaking. 

This is why I've taken to posting suggestions again, since they're planning to polish the game maybe they'll take some of these to heart.

 

I don't want to copy the entire stamina system either, but it worked very well in Dark Souls and parts of it can be used to great effect in any game.

[Numot]

Stagger resistance? Swing a heavy weapon, problem solved.

 

Honestly the only issues someone should have with stagger at the moment is if you overextend into a pool of infested. The current stamina system is fine.

[Ravenshroud]

1. Mobs need more crowd control, more damage, and more armor piercing.

 

2. Tanks need the ability to overcome #1 and the ability to help teammates overcome #1.

 

3. Trinity abilities need to be updated to heal over time and energy over time when marked enemies are killed.

 

4. DPS warframes need to avoid crowds that do not have a tank or get stun / sleep locked.

[Kinperor]

Stagger resistance? Swing a heavy weapon, problem solved.

 

Honestly the only issues someone should have with stagger at the moment is if you overextend into a pool of infested. The current stamina system is fine.

 

I beg to differ on both point: resisting stagger effect shouldn't be done by using a specific class of weapon, especially when it doesn't help against every type of stagger in the game (I.E rollers, Railgun, melee attacks from scorpions blindsiding you, and whichever other I am forgetting right now).

 

As for the stamina system, it is indeed fine if you consider "useless and un-noticeable" as fine. As of now, there is no reasons whatsoever to use any of the stamina mods, because they aren't as useful as any other mods you can equip instead. The resistance mods have the same problem ATM.

 

 

1. Mobs need more crowd control, more damage, and more armor piercing.

 

2. Tanks need the ability to overcome #1 and the ability to help teammates overcome #1.

 

3. Trinity abilities need to be updated to heal over time and energy over time when marked enemies are killed.

 

4. DPS warframes need to avoid crowds that do not have a tank or get stun / sleep locked.

 

I'm not sure why you're adding point 3 and 4, but point 1 and 2 I can agree with. 

 

The system I suggested (with some of the good ideas other posters added to it) would certainly help carve a difference between squishier frames and tankier frames (admitting we change the base stamina that frames have to better reflect their position). 

[Notso]

Stagger resistance? Swing a heavy weapon, problem solved.

 

Why should I be forced to take a specific weapon to resist something unrelated to my weapon?

 

 

Honestly the only issues someone should have with stagger at the moment is if you overextend into a pool of infested.

 

Mobs shouldn't be able to stunlock, or there needs to be a way to get out of stunlock if it happens. If mobs have a stun/stagger cooldown, we should get one too.

 

 

 The current stamina system is fine.

 

Explain.