Remove Current Warframe Ability Mods And Why

[ShadowGhosting]

When you create a new Warframe, it comes with a full set of ability mods, so you can use them from the get-go. But because of this, ability mods that drop in missions today become somewhat pointless. They become nothing more than fodder to level up other mods. Powering up ability mods is easy enough, even without fusing duplicates. The only purpose they truly serve, is advertising other Warframe abilities, which I cannot deny is nice.

 

Giving the player the option to not equip abilities however, they immediately miss out on a piece of what makes that Warframe unique. I'm suggesting to remove abilities from the mod system all together, and make them available without having to be equipped.

 

Abilities would always be usable, still use energy, but not use up mod slots or mod energy. Abilities could then be changed to gain experience on use, and level up similar to weapons. You'll also get more rich and useful feedback on Warframe abilities. Since players would have access to all abilities at any giving time, allowing for more opportunities and variety of situations that they'll be used in.

 

Removing the base abilities as mods also provides the chance to implement new, fun to use, non-essential mods to take their place. For example, mods that change how abilities function, or provide passive abilities, making use of the now defunct polarity slots. This opens up a whole new world of customization for Warframes, as well as allowing abilities to evolve over the life of the game, without having to change the base skill set.

 

A little work now, and nothing but profit later on.

 

 

If you can spare a few seconds, leave a comment with your opinion on this down below. I'd love to hear from you.

Edited July 7, 2013 by ShadowGhosting

[gundam146]

If i remember correctly, DE said they will add additional abilities for current warframe in one of the livestreams.

[Xoxile]

Maybe. But what would become of the points that would have been spent on power mods. Would all frames then have an extra 11-19 points?

[crow-k]

no, you dont get more slots or points, you get to customize your set in that case.

And even though I wish for other things I still make use of the random skill cards as fodder for leveling up my cards when the optimal choices are empty.

[liavalenth]

To use this they would have to completely rework mods, possibly even decrease the allowed number of mods, as the game is already too easy and all this would do is make it easier.

As noted by gundam146 they plan to add more abilities for each frame, and abilities that can be used by any frame. This could get annoying, depending on how they do it though. In any case, IMO, they need to come out with at least 1 of these abilities soon, to show people that they will come out with more over time.

Edited July 1, 2013 by liavalenth

[DiabolusUrsus]

If i remember correctly, DE said they will add additional abilities for current warframe in one of the livestreams.

Which could easily be transmuted into the OP's suggestion of modifier cards for base Warframe abilities. Same ability, altered function. This whole idea sounds pretty intriguing, and I'm all for it. It begs the question of how to limit player access to abilities when they are just starting out, though, since DE obviously doesn't want people using their ultimates until rank 5 at the MINIMUM.

[MetalGerbil]

the current system allows for you to take out abilities on the fly. adjusting for specific mission or play style.

it allows for growth later on down the line, with whole new abilities and even skills that are not warframe specific. which has been mentioned by DE.

it also allows for taking the skill polarities out completely using forma and having more mod flexibility but less skills slots

its an extremely flexible system that has lots of potential for new and interesting mods to be implemented. while allowing players to make critical choices about what their frame will be like.

its a deep and interesting system. going so far as to allow you to take all your skills off and taking only passive mods. what other games allows you to do that?

you can literally craft your perfect loki, or frost or whatever with the current setup. giving you choice left and right. and you want to take that away why?????

less mindless stuffing of frames and more critical choices that actually cost you something.

[Aggh]

 The fact that they drop too much isn't as much of a concern though imo, that merits changes to their drop rate, not to how they work. 

 

Removing them from the mod slot system would require rebalancing of all energy costs.  Being able to drop an ability in favor of other mods allows for plenty of build variety.

 

The real problem with abilitiy mods is that they lack depth that allows them to scale better against higher level enemies.  As the OP has suggested, there needs to be some kind of system that allows people to flesh out abilities so that they maintain their useability throughout the game.  Imo a skill tree for ability mods would be simpler and easier to balance than modding mods.  Leveling up mods would make for even more grinding, instead, mods levels should be based on the warframe's level and how much you've ranked it up with fusing.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Aggh

[ShadowGhosting]

I'll try my best to answer as many replies as I can.

 

Which could easily be transmuted into the OP's suggestion of modifier cards for base Warframe abilities. Same ability, altered function. This whole idea sounds pretty intriguing, and I'm all for it. It begs the question of how to limit player access to abilities when they are just starting out, though, since DE obviously doesn't want people using their ultimates until rank 5 at the MINIMUM.

 

Forgive me for quoting myself, "abilities could then be changed to gain experience on use, and level up similar to weapons" kind of ties into that question. Abilities as they are now, are fairly weak at the lowest rank.

 

If DE truly does not want players to use some abilities from the start. They can simply make abilities unlock as the Warframe ranks up.

 

DE could also make abilities rank up along side your Warframe, as an alternative to my suggestion. For example; Warframe at rank 0, would have rank 0 abilities. Then a Warframe at rank 30, would have the equivalent of max ranked abilities today. However, in this scenario, it does not provide any incentive for players to use all their abilities. Players would miss out on learning how to best use their abilities while ranking them up, even if it's just another grind, and DE would miss out on useful feedback.

 

the current system allows for you to take out abilities on the fly. adjusting for specific mission or play style.

it allows for growth later on down the line, with whole new abilities and even skills that are not warframe specific. which has been mentioned by DE.

it also allows for taking the skill polarities out completely using forma and having more mod flexibility but less skills slots

its an extremely flexible system that has lots of potential for new and interesting mods to be implemented. while allowing players to make critical choices about what their frame will be like.

its a deep and interesting system. going so far as to allow you to take all your skills off and taking only passive mods. what other games allows you to do that?

you can literally craft your perfect loki, or frost or whatever with the current setup. giving you choice left and right. and you want to take that away why?????

less mindless stuffing of frames and more critical choices that actually cost you something.

 

Not entirely sure the point your trying to make, but I'll try to reply the best I can.

 

I think you may have misinterpreted my post. I'm not suggesting in any way to scrap the entire mod system. I'm simply suggesting to reinforce the uniqueness of each Warframe by making the current ability mods (skills) of Warframes all available without having to be equipped. The fact you find being able to remove all your skills (abilities) a positive, has me worried. That just removes the only difference there is between Warframes that have an impact on gameplay.

 

And as I suggested, what is removed, can be replaced with new mods that effect the functionality of abilities, like what many have mentioned DE talked about. Maintaining the current array of customization and variety you love if not more.

 

Adding mods that adjust abilities, like for example; equip a mod that allows Loki to have multiple Decoy's active, or make Decoy invulnerable for it's duration, or equip both. The choices and sacrifices are still there. When you mod one ability, you miss out on modding another, while at the same time not ostracizing any base abilities.

 

 The fact that they drop too much isn't as much of a concern though imo, that merits changes to their drop rate, not to how they work. 

 

Removing them from the mod slot system would require rebalancing of all energy costs.  Being able to drop an ability in favor of other mods allows for plenty of build variety.

 

The real problem with abilitiy mods is that they lack depth that allows them to scale better against higher level enemies.  As the OP has suggested, there needs to be some kind of system that allows people to flesh out abilities so that they maintain their useability throughout the game.  Imo a skill tree for ability mods would be simpler and easier to balance than modding mods.  Leveling up mods would make for even more grinding, instead, mods levels should be based on the warframe's level and how much you've ranked it up with fusing.

 

Removing them would not require any rebalancing of energy costs for mods. Maybe just remove 2 mod slots if it's a legit concern, making it offer the same modability as weapons, while maintaining most players current load-outs. Since most players only equip 2 abilities, to make room for other mods, or they just did not find some useful. But Warframes should be entitled to these abilities, and not just be an "option".

 

As for skill trees, DE would never implement that, even if it would be nice. The whole reason why they are scrapping artifacts and converting them to mods, is because they want the mod system to be the main focus. Adding skill trees just takes away from that, similar to artifacts.

 

As for your concern about adding mods to mod abilities, your issue is more with the mod system in general, since one of the main things to do in missions is grind for mods, alongside blueprints and resources.

[neKroMancer]

It's the old system from pre update7 day of Warframe when there were skill trees.

Honestly, the choice in those days are pretty limiting and the tree system was very rigid compared to the current system. Abilities as mod open more possibilities for customization. You don't like it, don't put it in. Fairly simple imo. As other have been posting, there will be more abilities for frames in future updates to take this advantage (my gut instinct tell me that the grappling hook will be one of them). I think all mods are option in themselves, including abilities. DE's desire in this regard is palpable since the beginning of U8 but it seems to be long term plan.

However, the better idea is to take advantage of abilities' rank and put a small tree within each mod and make all your rank3 slashdash different in function. The system will be similar to ME3's ability system which allow one power to function differently depends on player's choice.

[Xylia]

If i remember correctly, DE said they will add additional abilities for current warframe in one of the livestreams.

 

Oh yay more mods we don't have card slots for.....

 

6 Mods is already pretty cramped when there's so fricken many mods that you can stick on a Warframe already.

 

Unless they give them the "Ability" polarity, then yeah, most Warframes have at least 1 power you can safely take off and not mind its loss.

[10ner]

Imo the only argument in favour of abilities as mods is the implementation of new skills in the future.

BUT there will also most likely be other new mods in the future.

The bottleneck right now is already the limited amount of mod slots, the limit of mod points being obsolete through forma. Right now there is a bunch of mods considered junk because in comparison to important mods, like redirection, vitality, stamina mods or the different power mods. So all the important mods are already there and the future most likely will bring only more second tier mods, i.e. mods wich are not essential. Those new mods will again be considered junk because nobody will bother using them.

 

Furthermore the so called flexibility of the system right now is just an excuse to get rid of abilities that either dont work at all because they are bugged or are too situational. Nobody uses Vaubans bounce e.g., because it is too situational. Consequently the current system forces You to choose a mod loadout upfront, even though you never know what situations may occur during a mission. Another example are Nyx' psychic bolts. Nobody uses them and puts them out. But not because You chose that You dont need said ability that much, but because it is S#&$ty. This list could go on...

 

So making a new system for abilities is much more future oriented and much more in favour of customization...

[ShadowGhosting]

The key point I'm trying to get across, is in the current system, Warframes are loosing out on style and personality of gameplay, since players are opting to swap out useless abilities for other mods. By giving players the choice of removing base skills in favor of other mods, they are missing out on what makes that Warframe unique, and it only reduces the difference between that type of Warframe and others.

 

What's the difference between a Frost Warframe that only equips Snow Globe, and a Nyx that only equips Chaos. The only difference in gameplay and style between those two, is now just those 2 skills. Everything else is now the same in terms of gameplay. The difference in gameplay would feel larger if those Warframes had access to all their abilities, even if they were just available and not being used. Yes, players could just equip all their abilities at the same time, to get the same effect. But if a player doesn't plan on using a specific skill, they will always opt to put something more useful in.

 

Here's three scenarios that could happen in the future:

 

1) New ability mods are introduced that any Warframe can use. In this example, I'll use Double Jump. Some players will inevitably find that the choice of removing a base ability in favor of Double Jump, is a positive. This view is fundamentally wrong. Being able to swap those two abilities, does not make you any more different than another Warframe, that can also equip Double Jump. Sacrificing a Warframe's individualism in favor of customization defeats the purpose of making a themed Warframe in the first place.

 

2) New mods are introduced that affect how your abilities work. In this example, I'll use Multi-Decoy, a Loki mod that allows for multiple Decoys to be active at the same time. This is pretty straight forward. Not only do you have to equip Multi-Decoy, but you also have to equip Decoy, to make use of it. The downside to this is self-explanatory. It creates more choices, but still does not help improve the current identity crisis Warframes are facing.

 

3) New ability mods are introduced that are Warframe specific. Again, it just creates more choices, but does not improve the current issue of making one type of Warframe more different than another. Your just going to swap abilities.

 

With my suggestion of making base abilities (skills) of Warframes available at all times without having to be equipped, it creates a nice base to differentiate between the types of Warframes, and maintain that. This also changes how the three previous scenarios effect Warframes. With the difference between types of Warframes maintained, the options will just further make you different than other Warframes, and of the same type.

 

This system also makes it easier to please a broad player base. As an example, Rhino's Iron Skin. The nerf to it was not well received. Players obviously want invulnerability back on it. With a base ability set always available, DE can just introduce a mod that changes how Iron Skin functions. Pleasing players that want the change, without disappointing players that are fine with Iron Skin as it is. Providing more choices for players that affect gameplay, while allowing experimentation of how abilities can function, with no negative side to it. If it doesn't work, players can just continue to use what does.

[Aggh]

 

 

 

Removing them would not require any rebalancing of energy costs for mods. Maybe just remove 2 mod slots if it's a legit concern, making it offer the same modability as weapons, while maintaining most players current load-outs. Since most players only equip 2 abilities, to make room for other mods, or they just did not find some useful. But Warframes should be entitled to these abilities, and not just be an "option".

 

As for skill trees, DE would never implement that, even if it would be nice. The whole reason why they are scrapping artifacts and converting them to mods, is because they want the mod system to be the main focus. Adding skill trees just takes away from that, similar to artifacts.

 

As for your concern about adding mods to mod abilities, your issue is more with the mod system in general, since one of the main things to do in missions is grind for mods, alongside blueprints and resources.

 Energy costs would need to be reworked since you're talking about removing 1-4 mods.  You can't take 19 energy worth of mods out of the equation without having to rework things.

 

It's simpler than modding mods and since it would be a skill tree within an ability mod, it wouldn't really detract from the mod system.

 

Nope.  Modding mods would mean that with each new mod for modding ability mods, DE would need to go through every possible combination of mods and make sure it doesn't imbalance any abilities.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Aggh

[ShadowGhosting]

 Energy costs would need to be reworked since you're talking about removing 1-4 mods.  You can't take 19 energy worth of mods out of the equation without having to rework things.

 

It's simpler than modding mods and since it would be a skill tree within an ability mod, it wouldn't really detract from the mod system.

 

Nope.  Modding mods would mean that with each new mod for modding ability mods, DE would need to go through every possible combination of mods and make sure it doesn't imbalance any abilities.

 

I don't know a single person that uses all 4 abilities at the same time. Which is the whole point of my argument. Normal is just 1 or 2, at the most 3 with a potato. Like I said, new mods would have to take it's place, using the defunct polarity slots, solving the issue your bringing up. If anyone's counterpoint is going to be, "Warframes with all abilities equipped, with no cost, is overpowered" please explain your reasoning. The abilities don't suddenly become free to use in gameplay.

 

Adding skill trees, is anything but simpler. It would just make the mod system more complex. It also does not make it any less of a grind, which I thought you didn't want. Your way would be ranking up a mod and having a choice somewhere along the line. Meaning, if you also wanted to go with the other choice, it would mean ranking up the same mod again. My way, would just give you the choices without having to rank up anything. They both provide the exact same choices, just one is simpler to make use of.

 

As for making it harder to balance, the same can be said of adding skill trees. Also, it's not like abilities in this game, are anywhere near balanced to begin with.

[ShadowGhosting]

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