[Putting The Dungeon Crawl Into This Third Person Dungeon Crawler]

[RenegadeGorilla]

Pre read
This post is an idea I played around with that to me seems like a good idea so please read through before killing me and my post completely. I will also add that I haven't spend all day looking for a similar post so these suggestions might already exist.

Finally I wan't to say that my English isn't the best and spelling/grammar mistakes will occur through out this post.

 

The idea

So I have been thinking about what this game actually is and it seemed to me the easy conclusion was a third-person dungeon crawler and from there I started wondering what is it that makes a dungeon crawler a good dungeon crawler?
To me a good dungeon crawler needs 6 things.

1. A solid gameplay.
2. World variation.
3. Enemy variation.
4. Weapon variation.

5. An easy to use but in depth character and weapon stats sheet.

6. Difficulty.

 

Through out this I will focus mostly on 4 and 5 because I think this is the primary problem right now (besides the lag of end game which I hope will be introduced with the next big update).

The stats sheet

I know that UI and the HUD is going to be changed but I will bring it up anyways because I think this is of great importance. The problem I'm having now is that there is no In-depth explanation on the weapons and warframes stats. Meaning that all stats thats is having an effect on how the weapon/warframe performs isn't shown and the numbers that is available aren't changing when you are adding mods which is leaving the numbers utterly useless and because of the lag of information these numbers aren't telling you much to start with.

I made this picture to show you what I mean this is my gorgon pre- and post mod.

 

So because I see this very much as a dungeon crawler I will use Diablo 3 as an example for a character sheet gone right. I know that Diablo 3 wasn't the best dungeon crawler and I agree with that but, they did one thing right they gave you a overall in-debth character sheet. Diablo 3's character sheet contained a lot of information on how your character would change when ever you added a new weapon with diffrent stats.

I would like to see something as in-debth as this in warframe.

This sheet should contain information on:
1. Overall dmg - All dmg modifiers calculated and into "Damage per second".

2. Crit chance + Crit dmg

3. Elemental dmg (all kinds)
4. Fire rate

5. Armor piercing

6. Your own health

7. Your own shield
8. Your own armor
- and so on.

 

I do know that equipment doesn't work the same way in these two games and this brings me on to the next stage in this post - Weapon and warframe variants.

Warframe/weapon variants

So what do I mean by this?
I'm not talking about a lot of diffrent weapons here, I'm talking about weapon variations as you see them in other dungeon crawlers like diablo, torchlight 1&2 and path of exile for example.

 

Weapon variants

"Same" weapon diffrent variation

pictures from torchlight 2

 

The reason I would like to see a some what "Random" stat modifier to the same kind of weapon is because I personally think that what gives a lot of people the drive to play these kind of games is so that they can archive special modified weapons and fine tune them even more. (I do know that we have the mod system but this is more of a enchantment system and I don't think that adding special abilities and stats to the weapons will ruin this in any stretch of the imagination.)

In addition to this I think that adding in tiers to this will be needed to again vary the allready existing weapons and open up for the possible builds. A tier system could be something as traditional as this:

White
Blue
Yellow
Green

 

Where each of these would be a indicator of how many stat modifiers and advantages the weapon will come with. This will be vary possible to add to the warframes as well.

So what will happen from here on?

This will make farming a bigger part of the game, some will see this as a good thing and others will se this as a bad thing. As it is now this will not make much sense because you are buying all the weapons from the shop, but if they added a very specific drop table to the bosses containing the weapons and warframe master blueprints then this will no longer be a problem because you will have a reason to farm and the best of the special drops should only be from these bosses and not from the store. This means that you will be able to get the weapons from the shop but to get the really juicy stuff you would go on boss runs or onto certain missions/planets to aquire these special weapons. I also see this making the higher ranked missions more compelling because you would have a possible "green" drop from that.

This was an idea I played around with now try not to kill me for this :)

[Angius]

"I won't put a potato into my white Bolto... Maybe I can get green one in abot 1500 runs?"
"Gys i cant drop any pongalina sword with other color then whtie help me!!!!!!1111"
"What the f*** DE! Why is drop rate of Rhino Helmet of Massive Destruction Of Gods with this +5 fire resistance so low! Fix the damn thing!!!!"
Yeah... No.

[Yorinar]

I like farming for rare drops like this, so I support that idea. The standard Diablo/PoE "Grakata of Grimaces" style weapons are probably less feasible in this game, due to the way mods, mastery, and crafting work, as you say. Not to say it couldn't be done, but I think there's an opportunity to make this different in a way that is more "Warframey".

Prior to Update 6, mods dropped kind of in this fashion. You would see a lot of +5% sprint mods, but occasionally you might get a +24.8% sprint mod or perhaps a dual mod with +15% sprint +15 loot radar or something like that. I think introducing variation into the mod pool would go a long way.

Some ways you could do this:

- secondary effect: similar to the split mods of the past. this effect would scale along with the primary effect at the cost of more fusion energy required.

- bonus effect: some flat rate bonus to some other stat that doesn't scale with the mod as you level it up. stacks additively with other mods that might offer the same stat.

- penalty: lower fusion cost, maybe higher base stat increase (or maybe not). penalty is a negative to some other stat. could potentially scale this with increased bonus for the primary stat. e.g. +45% vitality (per level), -25% armor (not per level).

Ignore numbers or examples, there are tons of ways this could be balanced and implemented.

I don't mean to hijack your thread with this idea, just suggesting one possible way they could implement your idea.

[MrHeartless]

I agree with the need for a detailed stats page whole heartedly. However, adding color rarity to a game like this, while adding another layer to customization and another means to gain in strength, I dont feel it fits Warframe snuggly.

[CubedOobleck]

I completely agree on getting better info on weapons, warframes (including the powers) and sentinels. In this aspect the game is so lacking that without the wiki we can't even see stats of melee weapons without owning them

 

I'm kind of torn about weapon variants I do like them if the player actually finds weapons and armor in the dungeon, but in Warframe players build them and buy the BP for it and so I don't see a good way to implement random variants into the game because getting random stats (possibly crappy) after waiting 12 ours of crafting would be quite unpleasant and the feeling of reward from actually finding a lucky weapon from a tough dungeon is skipped.

I guess it's part of why warframe grind is so lackluster compared to, say, Borderlands where enemies drop weapons that are always different instead of materials that are always the same.

The closest Warframe ever got to what you talk of was in closed beta when mods weren't fused, but were found in 3 tiers (white<green<blue if I remember correctly) and the +X% value came in random variants, but DE clearly turned away from that and I can't seem them retracing their steps.

Edited July 2, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[RenegadeGorilla]

I will add this is a very rough idea, and I deffinitely see what you guys are saying about this not being possible with the current system but if the inventory got streamlined and made into a full window, instead of the inventory system we have now then it would be possible to add these stats onto the master blueprint. So you would have the listed stats on the master blueprint and then you would add the masterblue print to your foundry and then build the wanted weapon? Just playing with ideas :)

[RenegadeGorilla]

Some ways you could do this:

- secondary effect: similar to the split mods of the past. this effect would scale along with the primary effect at the cost of more fusion energy required.

- bonus effect: some flat rate bonus to some other stat that doesn't scale with the mod as you level it up. stacks additively with other mods that might offer the same stat.

- penalty: lower fusion cost, maybe higher base stat increase (or maybe not). penalty is a negative to some other stat. could potentially scale this with increased bonus for the primary stat. e.g. +45% vitality (per level), -25% armor (not per level).

Ignore numbers or examples, there are tons of ways this could be balanced and implemented.

I don't mean to hijack your thread with this idea, just suggesting one possible way they could implement your idea.

I made this thread hoping that people would suggest different options - so just happy to see some constructive feedback :)

[MJ12]

I like farming for rare drops like this, so I support that idea. The standard Diablo/PoE "Grakata of Grimaces" style weapons are probably less feasible in this game, due to the way mods, mastery, and crafting work, as you say. Not to say it couldn't be done, but I think there's an opportunity to make this different in a way that is more "Warframey".

 

It's actually pretty possible if you do it like Terraria.

 

Crafted weapons can get random prefixes or suffixes, you can rebuild them for a cost to reroll those. Presumably instead of 'green' weapons you'd get 'kits' which let you create a weapon with random stats of that level.

 

So presumably the tiers would be:

 

1. Basic

2. Upgraded

3. Advanced

4. Prototype

 

So, say, Sargus Ruk might drop "Prototype Gorgon Parts", which you can then use to upgrade your Gorgon to, well, a prototype-level weapon with whatever bonuses that might have. Presumably it'd have a prefix and a suffix, so you'd need 2 to get a full Prototype Gorgon. Say, a "Gyrostabilized Gorgon with Rail Assist", with +10% damage and +0.5 puncture (Rail Assist) and +20% accuracy/-20% recoil (Gyrostabilized). Or you might get a Metalstorm Gorgon with Frictionless Parts, with +25% Fire Rate (Frictionless) and +20% Multishot (Metalstorm). If you don't like this, you could buy a Rebuild Kit for 25,000 credits in the market to reroll its prefixes.

 

Etc etc.

 

Something like this, where you get tons of random, interesting, loot, is kind of necessary for a dungeon crawler.

Edited July 2, 2013 by MJ12

[Yorinar]

<snip>

awesome, i dig it

[RenegadeGorilla]

<snip>

This was some good thinking +1 from me

 

[Hezekiah]

Disagree with the "Orthos of the enraged hamster" concept completely, BUT i totally agree with the UI needing a massive rework so I can see my character and weapon statistics update and change as I make my mods more powerful.  Especially things like crit rate and crit damage, also elemental mod stacking and attack speed updates.  The addition of a "stats breakdown" would be something I consider essential for update 9, or at least whenever they get around to refining the UI.  Please.

[CubedOobleck]

I will add this is a very rough idea, and I deffinitely see what you guys are saying about this not being possible with the current system but if the inventory got streamlined and made into a full window, instead of the inventory system we have now then it would be possible to add these stats onto the master blueprint. So you would have the listed stats on the master blueprint and then you would add the masterblue print to your foundry and then build the wanted weapon? Just playing with ideas :)

If weapons, warframes(non-parts) and sentinels BPs dropped from mobs and if the BPs already showed their variables then it would be plausible.

The market would become a place for platinum stuff only, but I can live with that and talking about platinum, stuff you buy with it would necessarily have very high-end variables.

Potatoes and forma would need to be a lot less rare or somehow recyclable since players will be finding weapons and warframes with better wariables as they go through the game.

It doesn't sound bad to me, at least there would be more to get exited for when mobs drop stuff... though I'm not sure I trust DE to handle the RNG behind all this even if they were interested in going this direction.

[RenegadeGorilla]

It doesn't sound bad to me, at least there would be more to get exited for when mobs drop stuff... though I'm not sure I trust DE to handle the RNG behind all this even if they were interested in going this direction.

True if the RNG isn't made correctly this idea will be hell on earth.

[P1RAT3]

<snoop>

I lub u +1

[Zero.No.Hikari]

As long as it's not like HellGate London I'll be up for it.....Going to a market and seeing a white sniper rifle with all the slots unlocked for mods and the seeing a Legendary with no mods unlocked is just frustrating, even when they drop off mobs and its like that I just was dismayed we didn't get slot unlockers in that game.   if it went like that I'd stick to the cheapest and most easiest to craft.

[Atsumori]

nope.avi