Grineer Suck

[Etsoree]

Inb4 I hate the Grineer rant.

[Boomstick720]

I will say that Grineer rollers are pretty much the worst thing ever, and although they are cake with a heavy weapon, for every one else they are horrendous.  Scorpions I don't mind that much.  Yeah they can drag you out of cover and disable you for a sec, but at least its fair 90% of the time.  I have never really raged at scorpions doing their thing really.  The commanders though, I can see where you are coming from.  They really do @(*()$ suck cause their switch teleport is awful and unblockable in every case.

 

However, I feel like every faction has at least one class that is very annoying to fight, like the corpus techs or the toxic ancients.  Yes they don't slap the controls out of your hand with their attacks, but with the former on high levels you better pray to god there are 5 of them just spamming osprey spawing non stop so that everyone around them is protected and they have shields all the time, and with the latter if you get hit by one of them at a bad time at a high level, you're essentially dead.

[XxKharrxX]

I think that some stagger is nice as the game would be utterly too easy without it (as if it is not all that hard already).  I find it funny though that everyone is complaining about the stunlocks of the Grineer and they seem to forget that the dog enemy of the infested (sorry I call them dogs I don't know their actual name) can easily surround you and keep you locked up not to mention the ancients and their shield and energy zapping abilities and the large explosive guys that charge you in groups.  I understand since the game is new, that implementing harder difficulty through mechanics rather than mass stagger is easier to do, but as people mentioned, it is more annoying than harder to deal with.  New enemies that maybe work Smarter together instead of zerging with more health would make the game a lot more challenging and fun I would think.

[Iceyspy]

I love it when scorpions take turns dragging me around the room.....My Ash be the pimpest frame in town xD

[ShadowGhosting]

I can see where OP is coming from. Farming for event kills, I ran into a bunch of really annoying situations.

 

One for example, alarm goes off, enemies rushed in not only from the front, but also from the room I just finished clearing. 5 Rollers and 2 Scorpions along with a bunch of others. Rollers constantly harassing me, and it figures I only got a Cronus equipped (leveling) so it was difficult to just melee them like normal with the Orthos. Decide to try to just run past them, since my shields are taking a beating just trying to avoid them. Manage to dodge the scorpions and make it into the next room, only to hear "A heavy unit is approaching" then get insta teleported right back into it. Rage ensues.

 

So yeah, both Rollers and Scorpions are easily one-shotted, but become increasingly infuriating when in mass numbers. And a Commander is always infuriating.

[CeePee]

I hated the Grineer too, until I played with the Rhino.

 

Iron skin man, use it.

[Patrusfarr]

Every enemy you just listed as sucking is easily avoidable except the guy that can teleport you. If anything is wrong with the enemies in this game, it's that they're too easy.

[SkyllianBlitz]

I love it when scorpions take turns dragging me around the room.....My Ash be the pimpest frame in town xD

That's my line! D:<

[Numot]

The Grineer  don't just suck because of all the stuns and knock downs they have, they suck cause they are probably the least challenging overall. For a faction who's mostly clad in heavy armor and warranting AP damage, they do almost nothing but use cover. Grineer need to be more offensive in their AI. They should almost always be pressing in on you and leveraging the fact that unless you shoot them in the face your damage is on the low end. It makes sense for the Corpus to use a cover strategy, they have sturdy helmets that let them poke out of cover, and robots to flush you out in their fire. The Grineer oddly try to also use cover, conveniently exposing the spot where they take full damage. They should probably be on the run more and chase the player forcing a mobile gun fight.

 

 

This guy seems to have equated something "sucking" with something that actually poses a threat. This guy is also missing the point of a shooter entirely. This post sucks.

 

No, he's equating sucking with annoyance. The Grineer aren't threatening, they are annoying to fight. Commanders are definitely the worst offender because they can switch you from behind cover and do so with no tactical bearing, often doing nothing more than making you turn around cause they are the last unit standing.

[MECT_HET]

Adding phantoms and atlases to grineer will prevent them in further suckage.

 

Phantom - an invisible and pretty agile assassin chasing the tenno and bearing a devastating power in the cqc. Let's call it "shade" for the copyrighters.

 

Atlas - pretty slow and heavy stomping exoskeleton unit firing with the high-caliber cannon and the rocket launcher. Can be partially damaged via destroying some armored parts. Call it "devastator" and it'll be ok.

[Carcharias]

Grineer don't usually give me too much trouble, but if you hate being stunned I would think that you would direct your vengeance at the infested.  :p

[AluminumHaste]

I keep thinking that stuns could be made less annoying if it became a stagger but you could still aim and move but an out ot control move. If I get knocked down, let me press crouch to roll out of the knock down. If I get staggered, let me still aim at least and maybe move around slowly.

Getting knocked down by a shield grineer wouldn't be so bad if I could roll out of the way to get back up.

Basically, don't ever take 100% of my control away. Tomb Raider is a good example, the new one. A lot of the time you'll get staggered by either AI or the environment, and you don't have complete control or Lara, BUT you can still keep walking/running/crouching/rolling.

If you get hit, you reel from the hit and your camera moves about some, but you still have control of your character. This makes me feel like I'm part of the game, whereas in Warframe I feel like I'm not really part of the game, but he's just taking my instructions when he feels like listening.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, it's getting pretty late here, and I'm kinda drunk.

[__Kanade__]

Well the Grineer are our most formitable opponents, a Tenno's weakness unfortunately is being staggered and knocked on the ground, which unfortunately can only be remedied by a mod that shouldn't even be a mod in the first place as all Tenno should have the ability to get back up instantly after being knocked down as kipups is the basic of basic abilities of a Ninja/Tenno.

 

What I really don't like though are the rollers, even when you jump to try an take them out with jump attacks they seem to magically stun you no matter how high you jump, and in cramped corridors where you can't just run in a straight line to shoot them, jump attacks is your best friend, but only if you can actually land a jump attack to take them out.

 

But you have to admit that Lech Kril is the one Grineer Boss whose fun to fight, I fight him just cause he's fun to fight, the Frost bp drops are just a bonus.

[Madotsuki]

The Grineers the worst faction? No, no my friend. The INFESTED is the worst faction, and the Corpus are the best. Also, I don't agree with a lot of your points, and it's kinda BS that you would say that Seekers deploy ROLLERS. Here's my list of underpowered/overpowered Grineer units, and why i call them UP/OP.

UP: Powerfist (takes WAY too long to attack), Latchers (too pathetic damage)

OP: Rollers (hard to hit, stunlock), Scorpions (completely silent, stunlock), Commanders (only in packs of 2+, switch teleport spam that's unavoidable and does not require line of sight), Shield Lancer (only VERY SLIGHTLY, his shield bash has a much wider range than visually shown), Heavies in general (only due to the unavoidable Radial Blast), Bombard (rockets home-in way too accurately)

[Harazard]

well to be honest Grineer need to be made a bit harder Lancer's damage is very low(even earth Grineer are swiss cheese).The only grineer which give me some problems are usually the Shield Lancers the Scorpy Robocop Chicks and the Flamethrower troops.everything Else is FAR TOO EASY to bother to kill

[Indalx]

Lemme preface this by saying that I have 300 hours on record for Warframe. I'm no scrub in this.

 

From a gameplay perspective, Grineer are easily the worst of the three enemy archetypes. And I'm not just going to say why they suck, I'm going to explain why each and every unit that sucks, sucks.

 

Let's start with the light grineer:

 

The Sawman: Suck level: None. Easy to kill. No problem. Even a standard pistol is sufficient.

 

The Flameblade: Suck level: Medium. Here's where the Grineer start to suck. Standard melee unit. Except that this one can TELEPORT and often staggers you when he hits you. Suck level: Medium.

 

The Powerfist: Suck level: None. Same as the Sawmen, except he takes so long to charge his attack that he might have telegraphed you a gilded message telling you when he'll be arriving.

 

The Scorpion: Suck level: EXTREME. I'm not even going to bother explaining why this enemy sucks in every way possible. I'll let you figure it out yourself if you've never had the displeasure of getting within fifty metres of one of these *@##$es.

 

Medium Grineer:

 

The Lancer: Suck level: Low. Simple trooper. Not much to see here.

 

The Trooper: Suck Level: Low. Simple trooper with a shotgun. Also not much to see there.

 

The Shield Lancer: Suck Level: High. A trooper with a shield. Loves to charge at you and cause an unblockable knock-down attack that forces you to the ground. YAY. One saving grace is that his head is hittable if you shoot above his shield. If this were removed, his suck level would be EXTREME.

 

The Seeker: Suck level: EXTREME. Not a particularly bad or evil enemy. But he throws out Grinner Rollers. And they ARE a particularly bad and evil enemy. A small, fast 'weaponized ball' with blades sticking out of it, turns on a dime, and causes INSTANT STAGGERS when it hits you. What's not to love?

 

The ballista: Suck Level: None. Sniper unit. Not partiularly threatening as they die easily and are usually found at close range.

 

The Scorch: Suck Level: Medium. No stuns and staggers here, surpringingly. But a blindingly bright flamethrower that will eat your shields for breakfast while making it impossible to accurately fire back if he gets close.

 

Heavy Grineer:

 

The Heavy Gunner: Suck Level: Major. Major pain in the &amp;#&#33;, and the most common of all heavy Grinner. Will do a radial AOE that always staggers if you bother to get close. Tons of shields, tons of health. Just not fun to fight.

 

The Napalm: Suck Level: Medium. Another major pain in the &amp;#&#33;. Fires slow-moving balls of napalm that explode and cause area denial with constant area AOE wherever it impacts. Tons of health, tons of shield. Very un-fun to shoot at.

 

The Bombard: Suck Level: Medium. And another pain in the &amp;#&#33;. Fires homing rockets that can turn corners and hit you no matter how you try to dodge them. Have fun running away from the magic missiles.

 

The Commander: Suck Level: DEFCON FIVE. This is the single most sucky enemy in the entire game. Period. If there is even one SLIVER of your character sticking out from behind a barell, be it FIVE HUNDRED METRES AWAY, he CAN, and WILL use his 'switch' power to teleport you to where he was. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter if it makes sense. It doesn't matter if it's tactically sound, or if you're shooting at eachother from fifteen metres away with both of you at either side of an empty room. He LIVES to switch places with you. And the only thing he loves more than swapping places is hiding behind scenery and waiting for his switch to recharge so he can DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. Even better: If there are more than one, and up to even five in my experience, of these bastards roaming the halls, they will take great delight in taking turns teleporting you around the map. The switch is unblockable, and happens instantly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see where all this suckage is coming from?

 

Stagger, stagger, stagger, stagger, stagger. Knockdownn, knockdown, knockdown, knockdown, knockdown. And the crowning jewel on this multi-tier cake of excrement is the Grinner Commander, happily taking control away from your player and teleporting him around the map at whim, and the Scorpion, with her stupid javelin.

 

This is not good game design. Taking control away from the player through staggers and knockdowns is the single worst way to add difficulty to a game, and makes the enemies that employ them seen as a pain in the &amp;#&#33; rather than an actual challenge. And it is something the Grineer have in spades that other enemies don't have.

 

You can kill a Corpus stomp moa before it stomps. You can freeze or run away from an ancient that's going to stagger-hit you.

 

The Grineer are just one slog-fest of avoiding staggers, getting staggered anyway, and teleported, and javelined.

 

Having to close in to melee distance to fight the Phorid because his ranged attacks are so damn powerful, is good game design. That's clever. That's giving us a choice. It makes phorid a challenge and a fun enemy to fight.

 

I would rather fight five phorid at once rather than play against Grinner, what with their constant melee staggers, radial AOE staggers, AOE burn attacks, roller-ball staggers, homing missiles, the absolutely ridiculous 'scorpion' javelin, and the just as stupid switch magic that can LITERALLY hit you from three rooms away through a 'keyhole'.

 

Grinner aren't a challenge; they're a CHORE.

Grineer are the most interesting enemy you can fight because of the variation.

Scorpion sucks?Why?Because she can grab you and endanger you to a group of enemies?Thats tactics and i love fighting Grineer because of that.

Its not a lame assault of waves like the infested and its not as easy as Corpus.Corpus are no threat,they have no mini-bosses except the Tech which is the easiest to kill.The shields are threatening but its ok,you can manage that.

When you are FORCED to climb walls and avoid a large force then there is the challenge.If you played 300 hours and you complain about the variety Grineer forces have,then you lack imagination and you probably dont know how a Third person shooter works.

[SanguineXIII]

 

'This guy' also plays solo on pluto. I do boss runs solo, too. I've been recently solo'ing that $#*(@ Hyena for control modules. So uhhh, I think that a challenge is sucking? Lolnope. I just think the fact that the grineer have three times as many stagger-based enemies as the other two factions is a little bit BS. Not to mention that they have techniques to wrest control from the player for no reason.

 

Oh watch out, we got a badass over here.  He can Solo these incredibly difficult easy to defeat bosses...  Call me back when you're soloing one of those boring endless defense missions beyond wave 50.  Then I will have gained some respect for you.

 

If it weren't for the Grineer having all the annoying S#&$ they have, I'd have gotten bored of this game and moved on long ago.  You can only shoot at moving cardboard cutouts for so long before it becomes tedium.

Edited July 8, 2013 by SanguineXIII

[VinceBlood]

Load in to Grineer mission.  Hit Iron Skin.  Get Iron Skin removed by two Heavy Gunners.  Get hit by Scorpion Javelin, pulled to other Heavy Gunner who knocks me down while I'm knocked down.  Spam '2' trying to get Iron Skin back.  Hit with second Scorpion Javelin, pulled away.  Hit with third Scorpion Javelin.  Stand up, hit Iron Skin, teleported by Grineer Commander into herd of gunfire that strips Iron Skin again.  Knocked on my back by a Shield Lancer.  Start swinging Gram wildly to try to avoid stagger.  Get hit by yet another Scorpion Wire.

 

See a pattern?

 

OP has a point.  Challenging gameplay should not stem solely from losing control of your character.  You should have to forge contingency plans for this level of difficulty rather than sit back and pray there isn't a Commander or Scorpion nearby who feels like you shouldn't be standing where you are.  I'm fine with all of the enemies except the Rollers, Scorpions and Commanders.  I can handle Heavy Gunners and Shield Lancers and all of the other staggering jerks in this faction just fine, but you throw in 2 or more Rollers, 2 or more Scorpions and one Commander and things get really un-fun.

 

I fully support the original post here.  Challenge should be switching tactics and planning your assault and getting that split-second window of opportunity to stop the madness.  It should not be "OH CRAP OH CRAP CAN'T MOVE CAN'T SHOOT CAN'T USE POWERS CRAP CRAP CRAP I'm dead."  That's not challenge.  That's punishing.  If I wanted punishing I'd go back to playing DMC3 Dante Must Die.

[stivoknis]

This guy seems to have equated something "sucking" with something that actually poses a threat. This guy is also missing the point of a shooter entirely. This post sucks.

 

From the title of the post, I thought "Grineer sucking" meant that they were too easy.  If that was the case, then I would have to agree, but apparently not.  The Grineer do suck because they offer no challenge.  Yes, cheap tactics which cause knockdown and stagger can be annoying (especially on shield lancers and roller balls), but the Grineer lack any truely scary enemies.  Even the Grineer bosses are a joke.  If all of the stun and knockdown attacks were removed from the Grineer, then we would be left with an enemy so bland it would even be worth playing any Grineer levels.

 

And, lastly, if anyone thinks the Grineer are bad as they are now, I have one word for you: Nervos.

[VinceBlood]

From the title of the post, I thought "Grineer sucking" meant that they were too easy.  If that was the case, then I would have to agree, but apparently not.  The Grineer do suck because they offer no challenge.  Yes, cheap tactics which cause knockdown and stagger can be annoying (especially on shield lancers and roller balls), but the Grineer lack any truely scary enemies.  Even the Grineer bosses are a joke.  If all of the stun and knockdown attacks were removed from the Grineer, then we would be left with an enemy so bland it would even be worth playing any Grineer levels.

 

And, lastly, if anyone thinks the Grineer are bad as they are now, I have one word for you: Nervos.

 

I don't necessarily think they're bad or too hard.  I think they're not worth the struggle.  With my new Snipetron Vandal I can drop them like flies, but getting near Rollers or Scorpions is just a pain.  They're an easy enemy to kill with a ton of really annoying cheap tricks.  With Corpus, I can adjust on the fly and identify what targets are priority, like blowing up Shockwave MOAs before they stomp and popping Corpus Tech Shield Drones as they're deployed.  With high-level Grineer I just sit way, way back and plink them dead because I don't feel like getting dragged around the map by six bungee cords while a squad of angry balls hit me in the face.

[JusticeJack]

bla bla bla bla

Look,mr 300 hours that somehow doesn't know where rollers come from  :

While scorpions and rollers are frustrating as hell, the heavy units are much needed.

If we use your logic,the best unit in the game are PATHETIC no shield-no armor-no danger for the player unit who blindly run to be gunned down.Wow, now that's funny right?to mow down helpless fools with baton and saws with a potatoed gorgon.

The heavy unit are dangerous,can easily kill you AND your team if not killed right away and give that sense of danger when faced,in a game where the AI is just average if not below, that's the only challenge possible,especially in a game based on mmorpg element like grinding and facing countless variant of the same enemies.

The scorch (not the napalm) is a great idea,it's weak,but can be dangerous for the blinding flamestream,wich is realistic btw,if you know something about flamethrowers.

The commander is damn annoying,but the horrendous situations he can put you in are a good challenge,and the only possible thing that can bother an experienced tenno.

Yes,removing control is bad,still if there is no other solution to make the game a little harder, so be it, and let's face it, warframes are amazingly OP against almost anything, even soloing,s o i think fighting unfair with unfair isn't that bad.

The only other way to make enemies less cheap and more dangerous is to make them into ridiculous bullet sponges.And that ain't no fun.

 

 

Usually one thing is never considered in these posts :

How cheap can be the player:

Every enemy in the game can be hit freely and most of the time without risk by our skills.

We have a "panic button" ultimate that they mostly can't avoid.

We have MUCH better weapons,and lots of shield,hp and agility.

Whoever post saying "i would like to see grineers being tactical" is really missing a point: Immagine grineers being tactical using some kind of stun grenade?No,that would be cheap, maybe using efficient suppressive fire to surround you?(Things they somehow do,probably by accident)Oh right,you can just run to each and every one of them and murder them without fear,since you can tank a lot or avoid damage by pressing a button, to be honest there can't be any valid tactic or strategy against a guy with superpowers that can spam,and that ignore your gunfire to butcher and slash everyone in the room, cheap knockdown or stun are THE ONLY WAY to face such unbalanced, crazy enemy like a tenno,even worse if a TEAM OF TENNOS.

Edited July 9, 2013 by JusticeJack

[VinceBlood]

Usually one thing is never considered in these posts :

How cheap can be the player:

Every enemy in the game can be hit freely and most of the time without risk by our skills.

We have a "panic button" ultimate that they mostly can't avoid.

We have MUCH better weapons,and lots of shield,hp and agility.

Whoever post saying "i would like to see grineers being tactical" is really missing a point: Immagine grineers being tactical using some kind of stun grenade?No,that would be cheap, maybe using efficient suppressive fire to surround you?(Things they somehow do,probably by accident)Oh right,you can just run to each and every one of them and murder them without fear,since you can tank a lot or avoid damage by pressing a button, to be honest there can't be any valid tactic or strategy against a guy with superpowers that can spam,and that ignore your gunfire to butcher and slash everyone in the room, cheap knockdown or stun are THE ONLY WAY to face such unbalanced, crazy enemy like a tenno,even worse if a TEAM OF TENNOS.

 

Comparing Enemy fairness to Player fairness is complete bunk.  We're SUPPOSED to have some sort of upper hand at all times-- we're the players for god's sake.  If they wanted enemies to be as opportunistic as players, we'd be constantly PvPing.

[Rusalki]

Like a lot of other people, I thought the OP meant the Grineer were too easy.

 

Pretty much all of the listed complaints are avoidable through use of cover, intelligent reads on enemy tells, and greater use of Warframe powers.

 

My greatest gripe with the game is probably how enemy difficulty isn't increased through better AI or increased movesets, but through stat steroids. It's incredibly frustrating to die to something not only blindingly stupid, but also stupidly powerful.

[JusticeJack]

Comparing Enemy fairness to Player fairness is complete bunk.  We're SUPPOSED to have some sort of upper hand at all times-- we're the players for god's sake.  If they wanted enemies to be as opportunistic as players, we'd be constantly PvPing.

So :

We are supposed to be stronger at all times :

"Oh bo-ohh this games is so easy."

In good games,player must use brain to win,not press simple button, to "overcome" difficult odds, it's something called "sense of accomplishment".

In this kind of game, that's not gonna happen of course, the difficult odds is that we might be wounded,if all goes bad.Or hell,we have 4 revive a day!So we can easily go suicide style without real repercussion.

I am sorry if my theory isn't for you,but we have a post that literally ask for even MORE advantage of the already unfair advantage that we have on the enemy and no one can be honestly thinking that's a great idea.How can you feel better or have fun if you never feels in danger in the game?Or never need to outsmart the enemies that rely on numbers and cheap tactics?

You are practically saying "we are player WE MUST WIN" wich is very very stupid,and probably even boring.

[Paradoxbomb]

Load in to Grineer mission.  Hit Iron Skin.  Get Iron Skin removed by two Heavy Gunners.  Get hit by Scorpion Javelin, pulled to other Heavy Gunner who knocks me down while I'm knocked down.  Spam '2' trying to get Iron Skin back.  Hit with second Scorpion Javelin, pulled away.  Hit with third Scorpion Javelin.  Stand up, hit Iron Skin, teleported by Grineer Commander into herd of gunfire that strips Iron Skin again.  Knocked on my back by a Shield Lancer.  Start swinging Gram wildly to try to avoid stagger.  Get hit by yet another Scorpion Wire.

 

See a pattern?

 

OP has a point.  Challenging gameplay should not stem solely from losing control of your character.  You should have to forge contingency plans for this level of difficulty rather than sit back and pray there isn't a Commander or Scorpion nearby who feels like you shouldn't be standing where you are.  I'm fine with all of the enemies except the Rollers, Scorpions and Commanders.  I can handle Heavy Gunners and Shield Lancers and all of the other staggering jerks in this faction just fine, but you throw in 2 or more Rollers, 2 or more Scorpions and one Commander and things get really un-fun.

I just imagined that entire scene playing out as some kind of cartoon montage in my head :D

 

From the title of the post, I thought "Grineer sucking" meant that they were too easy.  If that was the case, then I would have to agree, but apparently not.  The Grineer do suck because they offer no challenge.  Yes, cheap tactics which cause knockdown and stagger can be annoying (especially on shield lancers and roller balls), but the Grineer lack any truely scary enemies.  Even the Grineer bosses are a joke.  If all of the stun and knockdown attacks were removed from the Grineer, then we would be left with an enemy so bland it would even be worth playing any Grineer levels.

 

And, lastly, if anyone thinks the Grineer are bad as they are now, I have one word for you: Nervos.

I think if DE reworked the majority of the Grineer to make them actually powerful without having to stun you all the time, they would be golden (personally I'm used to avoiding most of their attacks, but my god getting cornered by 2-3 shield lancers is just the epimote of being trolled by a video game enemy).