Ember and Mirage, the fun-killing frames

[Thebel]

1 hour ago, Jackviator said:

vvv

As Calvyr and I have said, it's more a matter of allowing participation. Ember and Mirage (and the players controlling them) don't need the team to be there, and tbh a lot of teams don't want her there either. They're fun-killing frames, as the title would suggest.

It's not about contributing to the group, it's more an issue of making it possible to let the group contribute, as I've said, over and over now, without the point seeming to sink in for a lot of people.

And finally there's also the matter of not being completely brainless, as I've said, over and over now, without the point seeming to sink in for a lot of people.

Sure, other AOE nukes exist, and sure, they can wipe squads of enemies, but they're not actively nuking at all times, constantly, in the immediate area around the frames, as Ember does. They require you to at least press a button that allows you to nuke a set area around you once, unless you spam the ability and waste all your energy. They also sometimes have casting animations that leave you open to enemy punishment if you do them at inopportune times, leading you to actually have to think about when to use them, unlike Ember, who's more a press-4-and-forget frame.

So this comes down to you prefer shooting stationary targets because it let's you contribute.

Energy is not a problem in this game for anyone that actually plays, with all the ways to mitigate that saying someone is gonna waste energy is a joke. Another AoE frame running around pressing 4 is as brainless as Ember running around just like how it's as brainless as anyone with an AoE weapon, pressing for or slightly moving a mouse and clicking is no effort required at all.

If you are in a situation that punishes you for using nukes at the wrong time you clearly aren't in a mission that Ember would be clearing the field with. Any map that can be cleared with nukes have pointlessly weak enemies that do minor damage to even glass cannons. The Ember problem is only a thing if you're doing effortless low level missions and want to pretend that you're even trying. For those of us that see all these low level alerts and missions a giant waste of time, she's a god send to get it over with so I can actually go do something not brainless like shooting lvl 30 and under mobs.

[Jackviator]

1 hour ago, Thebel said:

So this comes down to you prefer shooting stationary targets because it let's you contribute.

It's not about contributing to the group, it's more an issue of making it possible to let the group contribute, as I've said, over and over now, without the point seeming to sink in for a lot of people. <<<This sentence was copied and pasted, because I'm getting tired of saying stuff over and over again without the points seeming to sink in for a lot of people.

 

...If that didn't work, well I guess I'll give it another shot with different wording: The group as a whole should be involved with killing stuff, because otherwise people might get bored, feel left out, feel like a large portion of the experience is getting robbed from them by the choices of just one person in the squad, are then resentful toward Ember and the player playing her, etc etc etc etc I've said this general stuff enough times that I'm getting tired of having to say it.

And it's not just me preferring to get the chance to kill stuff, it's 3/4 of the squad in most cases.

1 hour ago, Thebel said:

For those of us that see all these low level alerts and missions a giant waste of time, she's a god send to get it over with

"But things like having to do Invasions 3 times are just annoying to get through anyway, why not speed it up?"

That just points to Invasions needing to be reworked to be more enjoyable, not that it's fine to keep the frames as-is.

^^^While this point from the OP was talking about invasions, the same rule applies. So low-level stuff is tedious for some, so what? Just because they find it tedious doesn't mean everyone does, one person's perspective of the mission isn't all that matters. What about new players who actually find those mobs a rewarding challenge, or just people like me who find cathartic value in killing mobs as a team regardless of challenge level? One frame with one player attached to it shouldn't get to decide the experience of the entire squad by denying them all a key portion of the gameplay, that is to say, the combat. Besides, all of this just points to DE needing to find some way to make alerts and invasions more interesting for everyone involved, which I've already said.

And here I was thinking by predicting and putting those counterpoints up there in the OP I'd be saving myself time later by not having to point that stuff out to people later... Eh. Guess not.

[Thebel]

2 hours ago, Jackviator said:

 

"But things like having to do Invasions 3 times are just annoying to get through anyway, why not speed it up?"

That just points to Invasions needing to be reworked to be more enjoyable, not that it's fine to keep the frames as-is.

^^^While this point from the OP was talking about invasions, the same rule applies. So low-level stuff is tedious for some, so what? Just because they find it tedious doesn't mean everyone does, one person's perspective of the mission isn't all that matters. What about new players who actually find those mobs a rewarding challenge, or just people like me who find cathartic value in killing mobs as a team regardless of challenge level? One frame with one player attached to it shouldn't get to decide the experience of the entire squad by denying them all a key portion of the gameplay, that is to say, the combat. Besides, all of this just points to DE needing to find some way to make alerts and invasions more interesting for everyone involved, which I've already said.

And here I was thinking by predicting and putting those counterpoints up there in the OP I'd be saving myself time later by not having to point that stuff out to people later... Eh. Guess not.

It's not that invasions are terrible by design but more of well in this game Extermination missions feel like bad filler. And then you have people that have played long enough to have multiple forma'd weapons having to come to these low level missions that no longer are any sort of threat. Sure for new players it's fine but for older players it's boring, this all could be solved by having higher level missions with appropriate rewards. So even if you nerf Ember and Mirage to be useless you'll still have these older players running around with fully decked out automatics or AoE weapons or hell Exalted blade spam slicing through everything, clearing most of the field for you. The end result is basically the same with them getting a majority of kills with you having a handful in comparison. Oh you got a handful of kills vs my 100+? Pat yourself on the back for contributing almost nothing.

This is more of a high end content issue, there isn't any sort of invasions or alerts that would actually challenge older players consistently. Every now and then we get a tact alert but that's it. We need more missions that start at level 50,60,70,80 whatever,that have scaled rewards because currently without them you just have this problem of decked out players in noob missions which is effectively the entire star chart currently. Give me invasions and alerts with higher level mobs and more rewards, then you'll rarely see me in your low level missions playing for you.

I'll also still stand by Ember being a balanced frame by the fact that she is an effective dps at low levels and an effective cc at high level.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Thebel

[Tatersail]

On 11/30/2016 at 1:35 PM, Thebel said:

The easy answer is I use overextended and as a result only have 135% str so it lets me still have 100% chance of ccing something + ground finisher.

And the other side being you need a ton of str to get even a 90% status chance (258% str) when you're going for a cc build like me, str kinda gets thrown out the window.

 

WOF hits 4-5 times a second at 135% str you still have 47% status chance.  that's GOING to apply status unless you get really unlucky!

You don;t need to hit 100% status when you hit so fast, similar to Braton Prime or Akstilleto

[Tendou_Souji]

I feel the best way to improve WoF is to increase the energy drain while active while increasing damage dealt as time goes by like Valkyr's Hysteria and Mesa's Peacemaker; that or enhance other abilities while under the effects of WoF to encourage synergy.

 

As for Mirage + Simulor, I'll leave that topic to others.

 

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

I'd like to point out that mirage+sarpa(bullet dance)+supra is an amazing combo with dur/str halls+eclipse.

 

that is all.

[(PSN)R-Zab__v2]

Easiest fix IMO would be to make sim unrquippable on mirage along with tonkor. Just removed from her as a whole. And ember is simple, severely reduce range. It can still be great just not killing dudes super far away.