Your Enemies Suck!

[MJ12]

The thing I would worry about would be that that may soon swing in the opposite direction; it may become too hard for regular players.

 

Particularly for players new to the game.

 

If I might offer up some suggestions:

 

- Tailor enemy AI to the difficulty and level of the current enemies. The higher the level of the enemies, the smarter they are; and the more difficult the mission, the better they work together.

- Tailor enemy spawns to the number of people playing in a given instance. What would be an average challenge to a squad of four players in your system would be a nightmare to a solo player, but a difficult challenge to a solo player would be nothing to a squad of four players.

- Remove hitscanning from weapons. This allows for mobile frames without good defence to play, running around to avoid damage rather than allowing themselves to be pinned down.

 

Yeah, those would be good ideas. The Director should only start showing up on Tolstoj (Vor assassination) and then proceed to max out around... Earth, I suppose. Basic mechanics like enemies being suppressed when shot at should be explained in a tutorial. Maybe have multiple optional VR-style tutorials for advanced concepts?

 

"Your weapon lacks sufficient power to take these enemies out, Tenno. However, if you shoot at them, you should be able to get them to stay in cover, allowing you to run past them." etc etc. "Notice how those enemies cower when shot at and blindfire over cover. These are suppressed enemies. Suppressed enemies are far less aware of the world and less accurate, allowing you to outmaneuver them or reduce incoming damage."

 

On the hitscan thing, I figure that enemies should never have instantaneous reaction times. So no matter what you're doing, they should always only be able to react to it, say, anywhere from 0.5 to 0.1 seconds later, depending on their level and the difficulty mode (except in hypothetical Masochism Mode, where they have instantaneous reaction times).

[Fog_Ducker]

I think part of the problem might be the map design, ive noticed lots of straight hallways with cover on the side which might contribute to the whole shooting from cover thing, Also warframes feel kinda bulky, at least my frost does, it runs out of stamina incredibly fast only allowing me to pull off a few maneuvers before having to wait for my stamina to regenerate, breaking the whole speedy death-ninja feel.

 

Also totally off topic, the crysis ai sucks, the enemies just stare at their dead comrade(s) while you continue to pick em off with a silenced weapon.

Edit: I just realized i can report my own post... wut

Edited July 10, 2013 by TastesLikeGoat

[Kyte]

Frost is indeed not very agile. He's meant to run forward and block those shots with his face. :V

[Fog_Ducker]

Is that why my face is so large?

[Nitrobudyn]

Some propositions on enemy abilities

Imagine a giant stack of muscles charging towards you - it won't stop when it hits you, it won't stop when it hits the guy behind you. Only a wall can stop it. You need to avoid it if you dont want to be bumped in the air. To kill it hit the weak spot in the back of its neck.

Watch out for that sticky goo - if it hits you you might be able to run but you need to get rid of it before you can use your weapons again. But it might be worse if it hits you in the face and blinds you - only Banshee's sonar can help you then.

We've captured alarm signal. It says: "All units move back. Make room for elite units". Watch out Tenno, they are light armored but extremaly agile.

You have been infected with the blight by that giant runner. It will take a few moments to fight it. Untill then your stamina, sprint speed and attack speed are lowered.

[eStecko]

And everyone forgets about Railgun MOAs that can currently stunlock you to death... trough a wall.

[Tempera]

And everyone forgets about Railgun MOAs that can currently stunlock you to death... trough a wall.

I believe that is a separate problem to the problem being discussed here. Being hit through a wall is certainly not a good feature, but it's unrelated to the current problem.

 

Apart from that, Railgun MOA's are like Shockwave MOA's; they telegraph their attacks fairly obviously, so the player is able to avoid the attack so long as they are attentive and skilled. That's not bad game design. Shooting through walls is; their attacks stunning you isn't.

[eStecko]

The problem are 2 MOA's, that wont fire at a same time and are capable of stunlocking player forever (and killing him in a process) in a form of knockdowns from a distance as there is no dimishing return on repeated CC on player. Previous stagger after being hit was annoying but it was in reasonable limit. When speaking of dimishing return of CC, which NPC's have already (~10s), why just dont add it on player end aswell (no need for such a long time) by a simple guess this would solve many problems with current chain-stunlock issues in the game. We could argue that the attack is telegraphed for like 1 seconds, before you get sniped and that you not always have complete overview about every single enemy on the map or being pressured by other enemies and rushed on by melee's (defense). Anyway, taking away player control is always a lazy design, unless developers want to make a cinematic impression (cutscenes or look around drive-troughs) or the game is based around QTE's (Heavy Rain, Walking Dead). WF needs better AI* and animation system for clever enemies (Grineer, Corpus) to be able to react and dodge when we're aiming at them, not in a way that they will get impossible to hit (Borderlands 2, rats type enemies) or have super speed, and to be able to pressure player, not just numbers alone. Obviously we could talk about bullet sponges and damage amplifiers, that are boring to kill, but what can you do, when the game already has levels, weapon/warframe number modifiers.

 

*Generaly the AI is a problematic thing and quite hard to develop, so i would not expect big changes and loads of topics about this are in this forum already. Crysis/FEAR1/2 AI would be awesome, but i would keep on dreaming.

 

Also...

[MBaldelli]

And everyone forgets about Railgun MOAs that can currently stunlock you to death... trough a wall.

 

I haven't..  I'm wondering why I don't have such a weapon to use on them...  

[Tempera]

The problem are 2 MOA's, that wont fire at a same time and are capable of stunlocking player forever (and killing him in a process) in a form of knockdowns from a distance as there is no dimishing return on repeated CC on player.

I would say you are wrong. The problem isn't that two or more MOA's are capable of indefinitely stunlocking players; the problem is that there is nothing players can do to get out of that situation. This problem doesn't rely on player skill to avoid; it relies upon luck, situational awareness, and more luck.

 

If there were a way that players could still react while being attacked by Railgun MOA's- such as being able to fire, but with reduced accuracy- then the situation would no longer be blatantly unfair to the player; instead, it would be challenging, but a skilled player would be able to get themselves out of that situation through utilizing gameplay options.

 

I haven't..  I'm wondering why I don't have such a weapon to use on them...  

That then becomes a problem with consistency.

 

If I have a weapon which is capable of reliably stunning enemies upon hitting them, then why does that weapon not then work on, say, Pharid? And if the weapon does then work on Pharid, what is preventing me from simply bringing along three clanmates and stunlocking Pharid to death without risking any harm to myself?

 

That's a problem with giving players the ability to stagger opponents in general; it has great potential to cause one-on-one combat, such as player vs. boss combat, to fail very easily.

[eStecko]

What I want is Grineer to act like elite special forces, since they're cyborg combat super-clones. It should be like fighting Navy SEALs who are also giant space marines. Aggression, squad tactics, and so on.

Grineer are actualy, let's say, not very clever due to degredation of genes caused by long term cloning. But it would be nice to see sort of "Original Grineer" that are not clones and kept their inteligence.

 

 

 

I would say you are wrong. The problem isn't that two or more MOA's are capable of indefinitely stunlocking players; the problem is that there is nothing players can do to get out of that situation. This problem doesn't rely on player skill to avoid; it relies upon luck, situational awareness, and more luck.

 

If there were a way that players could still react while being attacked by Railgun MOA's- such as being able to fire, but with reduced accuracy- then the situation would no longer be blatantly unfair to the player; instead, it would be challenging, but a skilled player would be able to get themselves out of that situation through utilizing gameplay options.

If player cant do anything against it, then the problem is the stunlock alone (as currently is). If player could do something against it - as presented to shoot back when knockdown, using the dr system against chain cc, then there would actualy not be any problem at all.

 

Paths are simple...

- Reduce amount of CC - make mechanics simpler as we're previously.

- Expand upon the mechanics and make them advanced, with options for a player to avoid or counter player AI's mechanics.

(i would not count mods "chance to not get knockdown" "reduce damage while knockdown" as 2nd option)

Edited July 10, 2013 by eStecko

[MattHarrigan]

+1 for a more tactical AI! Good thread, lots of great ideas in here.

 

And with the sentence "your enemies suck" you can't really disagree once you've played Grineer Mobile Defense. They just walk up the system, which they're supposed to destroy and do nothing.

[Kyte]

Some propositions on enemy abilities

Imagine a giant stack of muscles charging towards you - it won't stop when it hits you, it won't stop when it hits the guy behind you. Only a wall can stop it. You need to avoid it if you dont want to be bumped in the air. To kill it hit the weak spot in the back of its neck.

 

Watch out for that sticky goo - if it hits you you might be able to run but you need to get rid of it before you can use your weapons again. But it might be worse if it hits you in the face and blinds you - only Banshee's sonar can help you then.

 

You have been infected with the blight by that giant runner. It will take a few moments to fight it. Untill then your stamina, sprint speed and attack speed are lowered.

It's like you completely missed the point of this thread.

[SoulEchelon]

Everyone's made some interesting points. Not much I can say on the matter, but I will at least add that I think the Infested enemies are pretty fun, even with their stagger and knock downs. They could be tweaked, but overall I enjoy them. They're supposed to be swarmers - supposed to immediately punish you for getting caught in a corner. Yeah, Disruptors are one of the most annoying enemies in the game, but you can usually see them coming and act accordingly. Basically, there's enough warning (both visual and noises) to know that hey - these bastards are coming and you better get ready.

 

Now, the Grineer on the other hand....Not fun at all to play against them. There are too many, WAY too many enemies that can stun you. I applaud DE for having variety in enemies for that faction, but it can be overwhelmingly annoying when you have every single type of stun/knockdown Grineer bumrushing you. Once in Uranus, I got to meet a grand total of 8 Scorpions in one small, confined room all spamming their whips at me. Luckily the moment they appeared, I got cloaked so they missed. But I had to stand there for a second and look at all these *@##$es, and how horrifyingly aggravating it would've been to get attacked by them. Not only that, it was RIGHT at the end of the mission; as if all of a sudden Warframe wanted to troll me. I dispatched them quickly, but guess what? another THREE more appeared in another room beside the one I was currently in. Seriously?

Edited July 10, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Nitrobudyn]

It's like you completely missed the point of this thread.

Hmm, number one is dodging a charging bull when agility and aiming is more important than fire power. Even with low AI it could be a nice alternative to bullet sponge. The second one forces you to use abilities instead of guns for a few seconds - which is imo less punishing than knockdown. And number three... yeah that was a bad idea :p

[Kyte]

Hmm, number one is dodging a charging bull when agility and aiming is more important than fire power. Even with low AI it could be a nice alternative to bullet sponge. The second one forces you to use abilities instead of guns for a few seconds - which is imo less punishing than knockdown. And number three... yeah that was a bad idea :p

All 3 are forms of removing player agency upon failure. That's what makes the current enemies suck in first place.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Kyte

[VinceBlood]

I'll post what I posted in the other thread about this topic (basically a 'wind up' for control attacks):

 

I have tons of fun fighting Corpus, and their tricks are easy to identify and avoid.  Tech pop a Shield Osprey?  Get it.  MOA about to stomp?  Shoot it.  Railgun MOA charging?  Hide or fire.  Fusion MOA deploy its Drone?  Switch tactics and go for AoE.

 

Grineer tricks are autohit stunlocks that you cannot cannot CANNOT avoid.  If you're hit, you're hit and there's no way to avoid it or lessen the danger like you can with Corpus, and that's bad.  Stuff like that is most assuredly not needed. 

 

Now let's say that all Grineer have a 'wind up' before these things.  Commanders glow or charge up, Scorpions hold up their hand and pull back their wire to fire it, Rollers pause before sprouting blades and leaping into your face, Heavy Gunners have a BIG animation on their mandatory knockdown, etc.  All that would do wonders for the Grineer.

 

[krisp]

Well, enemies in the game aren't quite the most well-thought out things, but I don't agree much when it comes to disruptors. You'll find that when you can't kill them before they can come at you and hit you, rolling or getting out of the way of their attack will avoid it. That's called player skill, and it's what you want.

 

We do need a bit more enemy variety though. Especially in the beefy types. Enemies dropping grenades after their death, creating hazards on the ground, summoning swarms of fodder on death, buffing allies and so on.

[stacey69]

 

Your Enemies Suck! 

 

Or, a more precise title that wouldn't fit in the title field; The common topic readdressed: You're going the wrong direction with enemies, DE.

 

 

- Warframe's enemies are going in the wrong direction, the two forms of "challenge" right now are bullet sponges and enemies that take away the player's control.

- Ancient Disruptors and Grineer in general highlight this with their variety of knockdown and stagger effects.

- If DE wants to provide challenge to the players, they should improve AI and/or redesign tilesets to provide less cover, encouraging mobility.

 

This topic crops up a lot in the Warframe forums. "Oh, Ancient Disruptors are too hard!" "The Grineer have too many knockdown options!" I know; everyone who's read these forums have seen this topic at least three hundred and twenty-six times. My aim in making this topic isn't to point out something new; it's to explain why the topic keeps getting brought up and why I think the people behind the topics are right.

 

So, let's talk about player agency.

 

When you're playing Warframe, you obviously want to be playing the game. This seems obvious; if you didn't want to be playing the game, then why would you be playing it?

 

But it's not as obvious as it seems. Take the most common form of "difficulty" used in the game; knockdown effects.

 

Knockdown effects prevent you from playing the game for several seconds. "Oh no!" one may gasp. "Several entire seconds, what will you do?!" "Well," I reply (after I have bopped them in the nose for their terrible use of sarcasm), "I won't do anything, because I cannot do anything for the duration of the knockdown effect. I cannot shoot at enemies, I cannot move, I cannot use my Powers- I cannot do anything."

 

This poorly-done piece of dialogue illustrates my point extremely badly; being knocked down strips control from the player. It prevents the player from actually playing the game for the duration of the knockdown effect; in effect, they are taken out of the game and forced to watch for several seconds as their character regains their feet.

 

There are two enemies I will use as perfect examples of this; Ancient Disruptors, and the Grineer.

 

Ancient Disruptors are a giant pain in the &#!. They have one redeeming factor; they provide a form of fake challenge to the game, with their massive pools of health, their knockdown ability, and their ability to drain all your shields and energy from you with one hit.

 

Why do I call this fake challenge, though? Well, there's one simple reason; it doesn't require any skill on the part of the player to overcome. Either the player sees the enemy coming, and thus reduces them to a bullet-riddled corpse before they get close, or the player is hit, and has their shields and energy completely drained, and has to watch as their character recovers from being knocked above the ground.

 

At least according to any game designers I've ever talked to, that isn't a good example of an enemy. It's a good example of an enemy that offers up a fake challenge, yes; but not a challenge that requires player skill to overcome.

 

The Grineer are different; they generally lack the biggest pain-in-the-&#! traits of Ancient Disruptors, which is their ability to drain your shields and energy in one hit. They don't take away as much agency from the player as Disruptors do, which can only be a good thing in my book.

 

That said; they're still not an example of a well-designed enemy faction. Their abilities are random and disorganized (ex. Shield Grineer, Grineer Rollers, Heavy Grineer, Grineer Flameblades- what do these all have in common?), providing the developers with no common point for the players to work from.

 

They also have the same annoying tendency to take away the player's control over their characters. Grineer Commanders cause players to lose their positioning; not an inherently bad thing, but it does not require line of sight to activate, and the players are generally dumped into a group of other Grineer just waiting to tear them apart- while the Grineer Commanders have taken themselves out of the fight.

 

Grineer Scorpions take away the player's control over their character, and destroy their positioning. Again, not an inherently bad thing; but they could most definitely stand to allow players to fire while being dragged. It's a step in the right direction to allow players to be able to avoid the rope if they are moving fast, however.

 

Grineer Heavy Gunners take away the player's control over their characters if characters get too close to them. And not just within melee range; merely attempting to run past one will result in being knocked down and having two hundred or more Shields ripped away from you by their guns.

 

And so on, so forth. Can you begin to see the problem? Each Grineer's form of "challenge" revolves around stripping something from the player- positioning, control, even their ability to retaliate.

 

So, I've talked about why this sucks. But even though these are forms of fake challenge, removing them will remove some of the last remnants of challenge that Warframe still has. So, what to do?

 

Well, the obvious answer is to add in something that has a real challenge for players; something they can overcome with skill.

 

One area the devs could go in is improving the enemy's AI; have the Grineer to push the offense, as staying on the defense only exposes their critical weak points; have the Infested to stick together and swarm players; and having the Corpus work together to provide a more defensive form of play on their part.

 

Another example may be to redesign the tilesets, removing most of the cover Tenno may hide behind to recover their shields, encouraging Tenno to remain mobile so as to avoid return fire and regenerate their shields.

 

Alternately, if even that seems like too much work, then the devs could simply add in options to recover from the various knockdown options (beyond the Handspring mod). Being able to aim and fire, but reducing accuracy, while staggered, would be a start; the ability to roll out of a knockdown would be another very welcome addition. Things like that would help greatly in making the game more fun than bullS#&$.

 

Little things like that may require a lot of work, but they will make the game's challenge feel real, rather than a cheap attempt at being challenging that really only strips control from the players.

 

Mate with the right frame that suits your playstyle and modding it correctly no faction is a pain or hard and the game becomes a lot more enjoyable. The problem is DE have taken the Blizz stance and not giving info or help. Rare mods are rare for a reason, this is my simple tip. If you want help with what mods to use or maybe changing your playstyle please PM me and I would be glad to help.

 

Using You tube also helps a lot. I put a lot of videos up of gameplay so people have an idea how to spec and how to combat each ability the enemy has. You can search warframe Stacey or look for other vids on Youtube.

 

If ced doesn't move me to the FanZone like he normally does ill pop a vid up in a bit of me playing a solo Pluto alert. Maybe help you and some of the others who are annoyed with the enemies abilities that are in game currently.

 

Ced f-off moving me ya git :p /hugs

[aaa9]

I agree to a certain extent on what your saying, but I don't think the design is in itself is terrible, just much of the implementation.

 

Stun lock is definitely bad and should be removed, I'm looking more at infested runners and chargers here. In this case it's not because the infestation need a better implementation, I think they do exactly what you would expect thematically (AI), but that there should be a diminishing returns effect for staggers/stuns and while you are being knocked back, you should be able to shoot, without aiming. Instead you should need to pay attention to the tip of your gun to try and time a decent shot.

 

I also feel like the disruptors are on the closer end of fair. Taking away shields and health is not a fake challenge, it puts the player into a new situation that they have to deal with, The knockdown is unfair though. A good change would be to make the disruption happen over time over a distance (like healers), so the attentive player would be able to see there's a disruptor near by and have time to plan, but be put under a time limit.

 

On a similar note, the unfairness of healers becomes apparent on later difficulties. I don't think they should be able to knock down the players, healing units should not have the same offensive capability as offensive units. Making decent progress on other ancients and units only to be knocked down by a healer or two and have all my work undone by their ability is simply time wasting.

 

 

As far as Grineer go, I think they are pretty ok except for a few tweaks that could be applied. The grineer units are solid and don't really need changing. What does need changing is the AI and spawning.

 

There needs to be more teamwork with the units. It would help if there were formations that they took which would depend on what's available at the time. A squad of 3 Shield Lancers should take a line formation and no one should go in front of them so they can advance and Troopers should have priority right behind them. A group of Lancers should try for a surround and fire, etc. Finally, when there are commanders on the scene, or several units with the radial knockdown ability, they should use the abilities smartly. For instance, commanders shouldn't use switch teleport all at the same time, one should be chosen to use it to throw the tenno into a dangerous situation. That isn't taking away control, its forcing the player to be adaptive and is what would logically be done if the technology was there.

[Voidcrash]

It'd be nifty if Grineers were organised to work as squads of 20+ units, mostly consisting of Lancers and Troopers, with a fair share of Shield Lancers to cover their advance, with suppport from Scorches in CQB areas and Ballistas in larger areas. (A buff to Ballistas would be appreciated.)

 

Grineers also have access to cloning technology, and thus virtually limitless armies, so their AI could be a tad bit more aggressive, such as having at least ten marines enter the room where the space ninja was last seen, instead of a lonesome Powerfist who probably wandered to the wrong set. [And Corpus AI could be turned upwards from "hurf hurf hurf" to "not completely stupid", so that their unarmored troopers wont charge through the door and try to take cover on the wrong damn side.]

 

The Grineer faction also has a lot of pointless enemies, like the Bombard, who has nothing interesting going for him, especially when compared to the Napalm who at least shoots balls of fire. Grineer Commander is another epitome of pointlessness who insists on switching places with you even when it offers him no tactical value. Grineer Sawman is just Grineer Scorpion without a harpoon, the Grineer Powerfist? Hands up, have you ever been hit by one? The only not useless Grineer melee unit is the Flameblade, and even he tends to teleport infront of me instead of behind me. Rollers are just an annoyance and offer no challenge.

 

The Grineers really only need the following:

 

Lancer, Trooper, Napalm, Seeker, Heavy Minigunner, Ballista, Flameblade, Scorpion and Commander.

 

And personally? I rather have the Grineer Scorpion's and Commander's abilities be quick time events, so that you can actually do something against them. Example: Grineer Commander is doing it's teleport, now, it isn't the giant instant F U that it is currently, as if you react quickly, you can press melee, or block, which results in the Commander either getting telefragged, or getting teleported infront of you and getting some sort of "teleportation sickness" which results in a short stun. (Telefrag/stun should probably be removed at higher levels, to add a bit of challenge.)

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Mate with the right frame that suits your playstyle and modding it correctly no faction is a pain or hard and the game becomes a lot more enjoyable. The problem is DE have taken the Blizz stance and not giving info or help. Rare mods are rare for a reason, this is my simple tip. If you want help with what mods to use or maybe changing your playstyle please PM me and I would be glad to help.

 

Using You tube also helps a lot. I put a lot of videos up of gameplay so people have an idea how to spec and how to combat each ability the enemy has. You can search warframe Stacey or look for other vids on Youtube.

 

If ced doesn't move me to the FanZone like he normally does ill pop a vid up in a bit of me playing a solo Pluto alert. Maybe help you and some of the others who are annoyed with the enemies abilities that are in game currently.

 

Ced f-off moving me ya git :p /hugs

This doesn't really help, because the problem isn't that Tempera (or I, or MJ, or whoever) can't cope with these enemies. It's that we can, but that what it requires simply isn't fun.

Example: I can pop rhino skin to ignore all staggers ever. But some times I don't want to play Rhino, you know?

[Tempera]

 

Everyone's made some interesting points. Not much I can say on the matter, but I will at least add that I think the Infested enemies are pretty fun, even with their stagger and knock downs. They could be tweaked, but overall I enjoy them. They're supposed to be swarmers - supposed to immediately punish you for getting caught in a corner. Yeah, Disruptors are one of the most annoying enemies in the game, but you can usually see them coming and act accordingly. Basically, there's enough warning (both visual and noises) to know that hey - these bastards are coming and you better get ready.

 

I believe I already covered why I don't believe Ancient Disruptors are good enemies in my opening post.

 

Any enemy that requires the players to either see them and kill them long before they arrive, or fail, is not a good example of a well-designed enemy. It doesn't require skill on the part of the player to overcome; it requires attentiveness and/or luck.

 

 

Well, enemies in the game aren't quite the most well-thought out things, but I don't agree much when it comes to disruptors. You'll find that when you can't kill them before they can come at you and hit you, rolling or getting out of the way of their attack will avoid it. That's called player skill, and it's what you want.

That's still not a very good example of an enemy that requires player skill to avoid. There's no sign that Disruptors are coming; the only thing you can do when they arrive is to immediately begin spamming keys to get away, because if you stay in range, they will attack you, drain all your shields and energy, and knock you down. You can't wait for them to begin to attack, then attempt to dodge roll past their tentacles, because blah blah blah hitscanning.

 

Compare Disruptors to... let's say, Shockwave MOA's; who are, in my opinion, amongst the best enemies in the game, despite only utilizing knockback attacks.

 

Shockwave MOA's are immediately distinctive from other types of enemies, being orange and whatnot. They have a wind-up period before their attack, allowing you to see it coming and react. You can then choose one of multiple options to get out of it; you can kill them (they are especially fragile, just for this purpose); you can get out of the range of their shockwave; or you can jump over the shockwave, preventing you from being hit by it.

 

That gives the player a lot more options than Disruptors do- and those options don't all boil down to "Get the hell out of the range of their attacks, then riddle them with bullets until they're dead".

 

Mate with the right frame that suits your playstyle and modding it correctly no faction is a pain or hard and the game becomes a lot more enjoyable.

I am already capable of winning a fight against pretty much any faction in the game, falling short only during high-level defence missions.

 

There are several things wrong with your assumptions, though. For one, there should be no "correct" mod setup; I believe DE has stated that they want players to be able to choose any mod setup they wish and have fun, not merely the ones that allow you to overcome things such as the knockdown overuse.

 

Mostly, though, the overuse of knockdown is just poor game design. I've already stated why in my opening post; it strips control away from the player, making them sit through what is essentially a short cutscene wherein their character attempts to recover from stun/knockdown/whatever before they regain the ability to actually play the game.

 

--

 

With that said, I don't believe that knockdown is an inherently bad thing to use. As I've said, I believe that Shockwave MOA's are some of the best-designed enemies in the game; and Jackal utilizes knockdown to a great effect, even if he does keep sending me off the edge.

 

The problem isn't the existence of knockdown; it's the overuse of it with enemies in the game, and the lack of cohesion. DE seems to rely on knockdown to provide an artificial form of challenge towards the players, instead of providing something that requires, well, actual skill to overcome.

[Kyte]

Well, enemies in the game aren't quite the most well-thought out things, but I don't agree much when it comes to disruptors. You'll find that when you can't kill them before they can come at you and hit you, rolling or getting out of the way of their attack will avoid it. That's called player skill, and it's what you want.

IMO the biggest problem is that once you get screwed over by a ninja Disruptor you're on the fast track to getting screwed over to death. Skill should not only allow you avoid bad situations, but also recover from bad situations.

 

Mate with the right frame that suits your playstyle and modding it correctly no faction is a pain or hard and the game becomes a lot more enjoyable. The problem is DE have taken the Blizz stance and not giving info or help. Rare mods are rare for a reason, this is my simple tip. If you want help with what mods to use or maybe changing your playstyle please PM me and I would be glad to help.

 

Using You tube also helps a lot. I put a lot of videos up of gameplay so people have an idea how to spec and how to combat each ability the enemy has. You can search warframe Stacey or look for other vids on Youtube.

 

If ced doesn't move me to the FanZone like he normally does ill pop a vid up in a bit of me playing a solo Pluto alert. Maybe help you and some of the others who are annoyed with the enemies abilities that are in game currently.

 

Ced f-off moving me ya git :p /hugs

 

So basically you're pretending to be nice while saying "lrn2play noob".

[Taranis49]

This doesn't really help, because the problem isn't that Tempera (or I, or MJ, or whoever) can't cope with these enemies. It's that we can, but that what it requires simply isn't fun.

Example: I can pop rhino skin to ignore all staggers ever. But some times I don't want to play Rhino, you know?

 

Exactly. As I've said elsewhere, I haven't even been downed as a result of a stun/knockdown enemy for quite a long time. Hell, I've probably been downed more by void laser traps and map bugs than enemies since U8 launched. So why don't you hear me griping about laser traps? Because for the most part when I do get downed by one, I know it's my own damn fault for being careless or that I just kinda suck at parkour.

 

A good chunk of the stun/knockdown enemies don't test skill, they test how much you're willing to be annoyed.