Void System ---> Relic System

[JarkayPahnts45]

This is definitely giving off the aura of a whine thread. DE are professionals. Professionals listen to professional criticism. Whining, therefore, is not the way to get professionals to listen to you.

 This whole thing is for your opinion. Yours. Not anybody else's. And yet you act like you're speaking for everyone. I LOVE Primes. They look great, bring great fashionframe, are a collectible, have increased stats, more polarities (which decreases grind) and the last advantage that comes to mind is the energy boost in void tilesets. Nothing Zenurik and an Energy Siphon can't easily fix. The void is now an area that has 2 upsides. 1. It looks pretty and 2. Its got Mot, the most insanely challenging tileset in the game, with enemies usually starting around lvl 40 and reaching up to 100 in the first 20 minutes. THATS its pull. Its got different reasons for playing in it. If YOU don't like it, don't act like everybody else doesn't like it, because I sure as hell do.

I do agree with you on one thing: I liked the old farming system more, for personal reasons. But please. Next time, act professionally.

[ComCray]

This constant nagging from solo clans... I'm sorry but:

clan

noun

1.

a group of families or households, as among the Scottish Highlanders,the heads of which claim descent from a common ancestor:

the Mackenzie clan.

2.

a group of people of common descent; family:

Our whole clan got together for Thanksgiving.

3.

a group of people, as a clique, set, society, or party, especially as united by some common trait, characteristic, or interest:

a clan of actors and directors.

4.

Anthropology.

1. the principal social unit of tribal organization, in which descent is reckoned exclusively in either the paternal or the maternal line.
2. a group of people regarded as being descended from a common ancestor.

It is cute you want to be a solo player, in a coop game, and have a solo-clan - which is YOUR OWN CHOICE - yes, really cute, but please PLEASE for the love of Lotus, stop whining about how a CLAN EVENT is screwing over solo players. It's starting to drive me nuts, the amount of entitlement and lack of a healthy perspective. 

A solo-clan is NOT a clan. It's you playing house. I don't care how much time and effort you wasted spend on your little project: it is still not a clan. DE owes solo clans nothing. They've been offering solo players plenty over the past four years, and now they decided to offer something for clans, for cooperative play, FOR GROUPS. Deal with it, get over it, whatever, but please PLEASE stop this incessant whining.

[Kronxito]

On 4/3/2017 at 1:30 AM, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

The greatest benefit of any prime fra is the energy gain from getting near a void trap. It's not stronger or more survivable that the regular counterpart. Going on a survival with the old void it had a benefit actually grinding for those frames and getting that energy boost. Then come relics and the destruction of a great and extremely rewarding grind.

Introducing those relics and placing the prime ground out of the void, you just rendered the biggest asset of a prime warframe completely irrelevant! There's no void traps outside of the void, so 90% of the time, a prime warframe has no real benefit anymore! 

If void reactives give energy to primed frames, then this point would be solved.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

3 hours ago, Camisoul said:

Then don't grind solo? Use recruit chat.

You're missing the point, I prefere playing solo. The new system punish you for playing solo, the old system didn't, it was equal for all.

Adding 50 armor doesnt change all that much, because if you want to take advantage of that with Steel Fiber, you have to sacrifice something else. Adding 25 more base health, sure it's all fine when you're playing anything less than 60, but push past 100 enemies, those bombards will still one shot you. So it depends on what you play and how you play, what the greatest benefit is. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for a void fissure to count as a void trap, jumping near it pose a risk, in that you got no idea what's coming through, a nullie who cancels your Iron Skin or what ever skill might be active.

It depends on personal preference too, if you like a cold and annoying corpus map, a closed and ugly grineer map or a void map with all bright colors and both huge rooms and closed hallways. The only other map I like for the visuals, that will be Earth when it's done.

If fashion frame is true end game, why are there no fashionable drops?

I get the need for competetive gameplay, clan challenges and so on, but it's not build fairly, make it an average score instead of an accumulative score? In the, on ps4, upcoming event, if I get a great score of 200, that would not be enough to compete against 3 buddies having a clan, if they got 75 points each, I've been beaten and with little effort too, compared to what I had to do. Again the current system punish solo play.

Why not make rotations on relics instead? 1st relic, you get first item, 2nd relic you get second item etc, that way when you go in a puvlic lobby, you might get lucky and play with a guy that just put in his 6th relic of the kind and solo players wouldn't have to grind endless relics to get enough void traces for 10 relics. It rewards playing in a lobby and it doesn't punish playing solo as bad.

[ComCray]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Again the current system punish solo play.

No. It is to reward COOPERATION. It is to reward TEAMS. It is to reward a GROUP EFFORT.

GROUP EFFORT

That you don't want to play in a group is your own choice. YOU chose to play solo in a cooperative game. YOU chose to be a "clan" of just one person. YOUR choices have led you to this. And now you want special treatment? Seriously.. get a grip.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

Yes, I choose to do my own work instead of relying on others to do some of it for me. I choose to earn my own rewards.

I also like how your definition of clans has nothing to do with gaming as such, how's common decent involved in this? Should I go grab my family then? I made a choice to solo, because I wanted to earn on my own, with the old system I played on equal terms, but having spent 10 relics trying to get a common item and only getting the same common and uncommon item from all 10? The suggestion I just offered with rotating the reward within a relic rewards group effort and it doesn't punish solo players by adding 4 times the grind. From 6 relics I would get mine, from 6 relics you would get yours, stagger the relic progression for a group and they could get more items they where farming, by working together, coordinating and being smart. Win-win.

If 6 isn't enough, then double it and make it 12, you and I would do the same work, you'd get your reward from playing and coordinating with a group and I would get my reward from doing the grind.

[ComCray]

1 minute ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

I also like how your definition of clans has nothing to do with gaming as such

Really? And why do you think they went and called it  "clans"? It's really cute how you went and picked the one definition that doesn't fit this game and ignored all the other ones that talk about GROUPS. It's almost as if you're being willfully stubborn.

[Trissila]

On 3/3/2017 at 7:45 PM, Cradicias said:

I would agree that the Void has lost some of its luster with no prime parts coming from there. I'd suggest adding stuff like Void Traces and Forma to the rewards from the void to make it a viable place to find teams.

Void is the only place to reliably get Argon Crystals.

 

Which are needed for all sorts of things.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

And its cute you're being condescending towards people who want to earn things and build without relying on anyone to help.

Lets go with your definition, the accumilative score still isn't working.

If I play with 2 friends and we make a clan together, we get a great score of 200 point each, 600 for the clan. Then a group of 9 go in and score 100 points each, beating the little clan easily. 

Had it been an average, the clan with the across the board highest score wins. Rewards all sizes of clans and rewards the skill level across the clan. I'm average at best and even if the scoring had been an average, I wouldn't stand a chance, but it would have been a fair scoring system at least.

Argon Crystals is from the void I know, but it was home of primes and now it's a farmers field? I still love playing there and I do play there. I agree all the other planets needs to be visited too, but why not just make a fissure permanently available in all planets, lith at earth, venus and mercury, meso at mars, phobos and ceres and so on? There would be choices and you could play on the tile you're in the mood for. The void then could have all 4 fissures.

[crenian]

punishing solo player?
how is it punishing solo player?

the relic system is NOT punishing solo players it gives BETTER REWARD for players that actually want to WORK TOGETHER

the drop rate for a rare part in the relic is just the same as with the old void rotation system. so how is it punishing solo players? It is the same as before. 
But DE gives an option for you to increase the rate by upgrading it with traces up to 10% (radiant) and with groups you can open multiple relics in 1 run. So the chances to get the rare part is drastically better when in group.

They never make it harder for solo players. You have the same chance for a rare part to drop the same as before if you are playing solo.

Orokin Void patch 16.11.2 drop rate for source. Look at Ash Blueprint on Endless section on rotation C 7.5%. Now radiant relic gives you 10% for a rare part. 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GgayBm5c4iX1bCjWglfDbi_VM85fSx26MQxftxJf0Tw/edit#gid=0

The new system gives us players faster way to obtain prime part by doing fissure and end it in 5 waves for Defense. 5 minutes for Survival. 

So you prefer grind 20 minutes to get Rotation C with 7% chance? Think about it.

[ComCray]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

And its cute you're being condescending towards people who want to earn things and build without relying on anyone to help.

 

If I play with 2 friends and we make a clan together, we get a great score of 200 point each, 600 for the clan. Then a group of 9 go in and score 100 points each, beating the little clan easily. 

What? You want a cookie now? Should you get a reward for being a stubborn person who won't play nice with others?

And yes. The STRONGER clan wins. What do you expect? Should DE cater to all the special snowflakes who don't know the meaning of the word 'cooperation' in this, a co-op game? 

 

I think I better keep away from the forums until a month after the event or something. The current level of entitlement is as unbelievable as it is unbearable. Yes, do not think for a second I jumped on you out of the blue, you're not the only solo player who can't get to grips with what it means to be alone during a team-based event.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

The stronger clan wins, isn't that the clan with the better players then? Even with the team oriented point example, you're neglecting to see, that people have different requirements for their clan, some people like having players of the same skill level and not catering to stubborn snowflakes, who think the only way to run a clan is by size. When DE provides an option to solo matchmake, where you can't even invite, it's not a strictly co-op game and it seems to have missed your understanding.

The drop chance on the common items is 50% but it's almost always the same common item. I think it's great you can refine the relics, it's a fantastic idea, yet it's still not changing the fact, that I've gotten 3 forma and 7 saryn system, when I'm looking for a Helios prime part. I think the old system, despite it's flaws, was much more rewarding, in the fact with a single key, you could jump in with your friends, play for an hour and have fun and get rewards for your efforts. Now you need to farm relics first, to have the same rewarding experience.

[Trissila]

"Grind void missions for parts" has been replaced with "Grind normal missions for relics, then do 2-minute fissures for parts". It's almost no difference, except that you get to see more tilesets than just Orokin Void, and you can DRASTICALLY increase your odds of getting a rare part over the old system by doing a little extra grinding to make your relic Radiant, then finding three other people to do a radshare with.

You get the Ignis Wraith blueprint for scoring 260 points for a Ghost clan. You can EASILY do that solo, so there you go, no reason to complain there. Oh, you can't hit top 10% to get the permanent research? Then don't be a dunce and throw your Ignis Wraith away before you max it.

[crenian]

If you get a bad luck then you are blaming the system? wow. If you got a bad result from a relic then it's just you getting streak of a bad luck. 
Took me 26 radshare run to get Valkyr Prime Chassis but only 2 radiant relic (solo run) for Helios Prime Cerebrum. Did I blame the RNG? No. Your luck is bad. Deal with it.

Need to farm relic first? You need to farm void key first. Unless your void key is appeared out of nowhere.

Also bringing 4 same relics boost the chance to get the rare part just by doing a single run. Same rewarding experience? I don't think so. 

You farm for an hour for a single key. Now with the system it's just the same. Farm for an hour untill you and your friends have 4 radiant relics. It is way faster. You farm for an hour for what? 3 times rotation C? so 3 times for a 7.5% chance to drop a rare part. Meanwhile upgrading relic to radiant is way way faster. 

Please give an example where the old system is much more rewarding. Please. And if you say that it is better because you can just use 1 key and going with friends it is not a valid argument. We are discussing how is the new relic system punishing solo player. I give the source and example why is the new system is better. Even for a solo player. 

 

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

9 minutes ago, crenian said:

If you get a bad luck then you are blaming the system? wow. If you got a bad result from a relic then it's just you getting streak of a bad luck. 
Took me 26 radshare run to get Valkyr Prime Chassis but only 2 radiant relic (solo run) for Helios Prime Cerebrum. Did I blame the RNG? No. Your luck is bad. Deal with it.

Need to farm relic first? You need to farm void key first. Unless your void key is appeared out of nowhere.

Also bringing 4 same relics boost the chance to get the rare part just by doing a single run. Same rewarding experience? I don't think so. 

You farm for an hour for a single key. Now with the system it's just the same. Farm for an hour untill you and your friends have 4 radiant relics. It is way faster. You farm for an hour for what? 3 times rotation C? so 3 times for a 7.5% chance to drop a rare part. Meanwhile upgrading relic to radiant is way way faster. 

Please give an example where the old system is much more rewarding. Please. And if you say that it is better because you can just use 1 key and going with friends it is not a valid argument. We are discussing how is the new relic system punishing solo player. I give the source and example why is the new system is better. Even for a solo player. 

 

Didn't farm an hour for a key, went and did a spy mission or 2, while leveling up a gun or something, got a key that way, then I could use 1 single key to go have a lot of fun in the void and get rewarded for staying in longer. It's far more rewarding, than having to bring 12 relics for an hours worth of play. It was more rewarding, because I didn't have to sit through the same interception 50 times to play for an hour and have enough of the right type keys, get a T3 survival or T4 survival key and good to go. Nothing to do with some specific loot, just getting rewarded for staying in, ducat fodder or useful drops alike.

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

I respect your opinion, but I hated the void with passion because I had to go there a lot when new prime parts dropped, and same for ducats and formas. I got burned out of that place pretty quick :s
I'm not here to argue about what system is better, but with the relic system I don't feel burned out since I complete different mission types, against different factions and in different tilesets (especially now that there are variations for certain game modes depending on the tileset; uranus, kuva fortress or lua are some examples for defense).

[crenian]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Didn't farm an hour for a key, went and did a spy mission or 2, while leveling up a gun or something, got a key that way, then I could use 1 single key to go have a lot of fun in the void and get rewarded for staying in longer. It's far more rewarding, than having to bring 12 relics for an hours worth of play. It was more rewarding, because I didn't have to sit through the same interception 50 times to play for an hour and have enough of the right type keys, get a T3 survival or T4 survival key and good to go. Nothing to do with some specific loot, just getting rewarded for staying in, ducat fodder or useful drops alike.

didn't farm for a key? suuuuuure. When you got the right key. How about when you don't get the right key in the first place? You will repeat the mission to get the right key. Oh wait it is a FARM.

It seems clear to me that your definition for rewarding is actually: I DON'T LIKE DOING MISSION other than VOID. Is it different? Staying in Void mission for 60 minutes or farm for relic for 60 minutes? It's just the same. 

Sitting in a same interception for 50 times? Who told you to sit in the same interception 50 times? Defense also gives relic. Survival also gives relic. And even with better rates. Try Hydron, Sedna. I always get a relic like 75% in EVERY rotation. If you are the type of the guy that only spam Hieracon you are doing the new system WRONG.

The introduction of the new system is to make players play on different missions and on different tilesets. So you won't get bored by the same repeated mission over and over.
If you are not bored by doing Void missions everyday and you are actually bored by doing other missions then maybe you are the outlier here. 

From resource point of view. You think Void system is better? You only got Control Modules, Argon, Rubedo, and Alloy Plate (before they changed it to Ferite) over and over again. for what? You still need other resource to farm. With this Relic System I RARELY farm for resource anymore. Just by doing fissures and endless missions for relics I have enough resource to build anything.  

You can ask everyone else. New Relic system is much much more rewarding than the old one. I am a solo player myself. I play 70% of the time going solo and I find that Relic is WAY better. 

Again, please provide some proof that Void system is more rewarding, For Solo point of view it is THE SAME. For co-op point of view it is WAY WAY better. You can even choose your reward in coop. I get even more ducats with the relic system than the void system. 

If new system is so bad. Many people will complaint. and here you are. The majority has spoken that new one is better. Think about it. You still think Void system is better? Then I don't know what to say anymore. 



 

[ComCray]

2 hours ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

The stronger clan wins, isn't that the clan with the better players then?

No. The stronger clan is the larger clan that puts in more effort (either in recruiting and/or in playing).

Only in Hollywood can a skilled warrior win from a multitude of weaker warriors. In reality the skillful warrior will be butchered by even a small group of peasants with sticks.

And now you are alone, you're not even a clan, and you think you can take on real clan and also think this should work out well for you. No, wait, you do not only think it should work out well, you're even convinced you, on your own, have a right at getting a reward in a competition specifically designed  for groups. Mindblowingly entitled.

Maybe, just maybe you should get out of that bubble you're obviously living in and talk with some people in the outside world. You might find that talking to yourself in your bubble is not the most ideal way to form opinions of the real world.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

6 hours ago, ComCray said:

No. The stronger clan is the larger clan that puts in more effort (either in recruiting and/or in playing).

Only in Hollywood can a skilled warrior win from a multitude of weaker warriors. In reality the skillful warrior will be butchered by even a small group of peasants with sticks.

And now you are alone, you're not even a clan, and you think you can take on real clan and also think this should work out well for you. No, wait, you do not only think it should work out well, you're even convinced you, on your own, have a right at getting a reward in a competition specifically designed  for groups. Mindblowingly entitled.

Maybe, just maybe you should get out of that bubble you're obviously living in and talk with some people in the outside world. You might find that talking to yourself in your bubble is not the most ideal way to form opinions of the real world.

In other words, only size matters, skill level doesn't? It doesn't require any effort to learn all warframe and understand the mechanics at play, it all comes down to size and size only? Are you American? With your argument of skilled warriors will be butchered, why do almost any nation in the world put in the time and effort to train special forces, instead of loading up a plain with the good old horde of farmers and peasants and go hunt down Frankenstein? 

I don't spam Heiracon and I use Cerberus, Pluto to get my relics now, I do understand where to go and get my relics efficiently, its a 75% Neo relic drop chance in rotation A and 100% Axi relic drop chance in rotation b/c. Each rotation is 2-3 minutes. I'm sitting there round after round trying to get a specific relic and get enough of them. That is not rewarding, interesting or even fun. The old system, I would get T2 and T3 keys from leveling something up, no need at all to farm for keys. T4 keys where occational but still enough that I would have 2-5 at all times. That is why I never went farming for them, I got them from doing other things.

Farming for resources is better than before, as you get to play all planets, no doubt about that. 

Staying in a missions for 60 minutes, where you get a prime part, either for ducats or useful prime part, is far more rewarding, than sitting in an interception round after round watching the drop table give you relics that cannot give you what you're really hoping to get.

I don't mind playing other tiles than the void, I can't wait to play on earth after the rework is done, it looks fantastic, I like the Grineer Sealab tileset because it offers different challenges than regular tilesets, you could even get some use of archwing with underwater fissures. , The point I'm trying to make is, the only tileset that benefits you in any way for having a prime is the void. Why not make the void fissures themselves count as a void trapn for example? 

Playing strictly solo adds way too much needless grind and unlike what you think, I have talked to other solo players and most of them think the same, that the relic system doesn't work at all for playing solo and it is far less rewarding.

[Denpoman]

19 hours ago, Kuestenjung said:

Void and 1 of the best tilesets? That´s a good one.

Oh no, my opinion which is entirely subjective has been totally debunked.

Woe is me.