Nikana Bleed Build vs Galatine Bleed Build

[Allmantor]

Just wanted feed back on my two latest creations on warframe builder. Here are the links to the builds: Galatine Prime Build: http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Galatine_Prime/t_30_220020004_226-3-5-239-5-5-360-7-5-494-8-3-637-0-10-641-6-5-729-4-10-733-1-10-796-2-3_637-7-733-7-796-5-226-9-729-7-239-9-641-9-360-11-494-10/en/4-0-109/122854/

and : Nikana Prime Build:http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Nikana_Prime/t_30_242000002_226-4-5-239-5-5-360-3-5-364-8-3-637-2-10-641-6-5-733-0-10-796-1-3-802-7-3_733-7-796-3-637-7-360-11-226-9-239-9-641-9-802-9-364-10/en/4-0-99/122855/

Are these builds any good? Which one is better at getting the job done?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Read the description of the Galatine Prime build for more information.

[Vrcross]

Just now, Allmantor said:

You couldn't be more right, with all the damage mitigation, the damage type doesn't matter as long as you have as much base damage as possible for those 245% Base finishing damage slash procs.  A mod that provides 120% more base damage is more valuable than a mod that adds 90% or 60%.

Buzzkill does not increase base damage!!!!

[Allmantor]

Just now, Vrcross said:

Buzzkill does not increase base damage!!!!

Oh wait, mind glitch, base damage, not total damage. Sorry guys, big misunderstanding.

[zehne]

9 minutes ago, Vrcross said:

@zehne

You're wrong about Relentless combination. I have tested a lot with this sort of bleed build, and relentless combination gets your combo to ridiculous heights. I have gotten to a 4.5 multiplier with the Dual kamas Prime in mere minutes. Relentless helps you scale faster with growing enemy level.

The difference between 3.5 and 4.5 is ~~27% higher damage.  What if instead of that mod you had one that gave you that same damage increase immediately?  Also 4.5 is 2x combo's higher.  Meaning it's 9x as many hits.  Slash procs only do 7 ticks AT MOST, assuming you let all your slash procs tick you wouldn't get 9x as many hits in from that mod.

 

Sorry, but relentless isn't actually capable of moving you up 2x combo counters over a weapon without it.  Unless you have a status duration mod, which is sorta sub-optimal unless you're going for bleed and run style play (you are willing to wait ~~ 20 seconds for your target to die)

Edited March 15, 2017 by zehne

[Vrcross]

Just now, zehne said:

The difference between 3.5 and 4.5 is ~~27% higher damage.  What if instead of that mod you had one that game you that same damage increase immediatly?

You're math isn't taking into account the damage increase from bloodrush, and the elemental damage as you pointed out earlier isn't going to affect the damage of the slash procs. Relentless however will get weeping wounds going which in turn powers relentless combination which ups your combo for each tic of the bleed proc. And in turn all this ups your damage with bloodrush which means higher damaging bleed procs.

[zehne]

1 minute ago, Vrcross said:

You're math isn't taking into account the damage increase from bloodrush, and the elemental damage as you pointed out earlier isn't going to affect the damage of the slash procs. Relentless however will get weeping wounds going which in turn powers relentless combination which ups your combo for each tic of the bleed proc. And in turn all this ups your damage with bloodrush which means higher damaging bleed procs.

...

All you said is that you go over 100% status at about the same rate.   Which is meaningless.

[Allmantor]

Exsiting. I think we are getting close to the ultamat mod setup. :D

[Allmantor]

Come to think about it, if elemental mods and damage mods don't actually bring up base damage then why do you have pressure point in there?

[zehne]

1 minute ago, Allmantor said:

Come to think about it, if elemental mods and damage mods don't actually bring up base damage then why do you have pressure point in there?

Because pressure point is a base damage mod.  Like heavy cal, serration, hornet...

[Vrcross]

pressure point, organ shatter, bloodrush(btw of red crits), and spoiled strike all increase the damage of your bleed procs.

[Allmantor]

It says melee damage. Not base damage... Or is this DE playing us.

Guess so LOL.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Allmantor
just needed to add

[Vrcross]

4 minutes ago, zehne said:

...

All you said is that you go over 100% status at about the same rate.   Which is meaningless.

You don't realize how fast relentless builds combo on high level enemies.

[Vrcross]

2 minutes ago, Allmantor said:

It says melee damage. Not base damage... Or is this DE playing us.

Guess so LOL.

In the mod wording "melee damage" = base damage anything else that adds damage directly has no effect on the base damage.

 

THis means covert leathality and syndicate augments count when applicable.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Vrcross

[Allmantor]

I updated the Nikana Build, does that look right to you for a fast attack speed end game build?

 

I see... Thanks for clarification. :D

Edited March 15, 2017 by Allmantor
had to add again

[Vrcross]

I still see Buzzkill on there. You need to get rid of that. Primed Fury, True Steel, Primed Reach, Spoiled Strike, Life Strike or even Conditional Overload (even though you'll mainly only be giving one status) would all be better choices.

 

Edit: Don't quote me on conditional overload as I have not tested if that affects the damage of bleed procs.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Vrcross

[Allmantor]

I though I had edited it LOL.

Ok Galatine and Nikana build edited. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Allmantor

[Vrcross]

Looks good. I would personally use Primed reach over true steel, but that is my personal preference. The build also assumes that you are naramon cheesing or using an invis frame or in a party that is basically neutralizing the enemies damage output(which is completely fine).

[zehne]

12 minutes ago, Vrcross said:

You don't realize how fast relentless builds combo on high level enemies.

As I already said, mathematically impossible to make the difference between 3.5 and 4.5 combo counter.  Also while you can't apply a DPS value to reach/primed, it does increase the combo counter and does increase damage and does increase utility.

 

[Allmantor]

5 minutes ago, Vrcross said:

Looks good. I would personally use Primed reach over true steel, but that is my personal preference. The build also assumes that you are naramon cheesing or using an invis frame or in a party that is basically neutralizing the enemies damage output(which is completely fine).

Actually at a second though I can see that True Steal continues being a lower option, so I decided to put spoiled strike because it will enhance the damage output considerably on a weapon that doesn't need as much speed as it's getting. Primed reach would be interesting but seeing as this weapon doesn't have a lot of reach any way, I don't think the benefits would be as notable as they could be on other weapons. Besides, spoiled strike will keep it usable at lower levels.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Allmantor

[Vrcross]

3 minutes ago, zehne said:

As I already said, mathematically impossible to make the difference between 3.5 and 4.5 combo counter.  Also while you can't apply a DPS value to reach/primed, it does increase the combo counter and does increase damage and does increase utility.

 

Completely agree about primed reach as I use it on literally every melee weapon regardless of base range. The thing about relentless though is the higher the enemy level the more likely it is that you will build combo and relentless does it so fast that you will see 4x and 4.5x multipliers in a minute or two.

[Allmantor]

Though the damage calculate of Warframe builder doesn't seem to agree with me. It says true steal would give a grater increase in damage.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Allmantor

[Vrcross]

Probably because Warframe builder calculates damage with your non blood rush crit chance and does not factor in status proc damage.

[Allmantor]

1 minute ago, Vrcross said:

Probably because Warframe builder calculates damage with your non blood rush crit chance and does not factor in status proc damage.

Ah, good point! It almost tricked me there, true steal will give more per-hit damage, but Spoiled Strike may give better bleed damage.

[Vrcross]

Just now, Allmantor said:

Ah, good point! It almost tricked me there, true steal will give more per-hit damage, but Spoiled Strike may give better bleed damage.

That is not necessarily true. Higher crit damage also means higher damaging bleed procs.

[Allmantor]

12 minutes ago, Vrcross said:

That is not necessarily true. Higher crit damage also means higher damaging bleed procs.

Oh LOL, looking at the DPS it shows me, True Steal will give me 5k more DPS at 4.5x combo counter. So if that reflects the damage of the bleed procs, True Steal is better for killing single targets and Primed reach for crowd control if you can call it that with the Nikana.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Allmantor

[KazeUindo]

As far as for slash procs, are these the best fit weapons to perform mod setup everyone is trying to accomplish? Only reason I ask is because I never saw Hate, or Reaper P(never used). 

 

Currently following this as I love slash weapons and more so Nikana. I dont have Nikana P on Dragon Nikana.