Nidus Ability Tweaks

[Lokidus_Prime]

Nidus has been out for a couple months now, and plenty of people have had the opportunity to build him up and thoroughly test out his abilities.  Yes, he did get a minor nerf (which, was perfectly reasonable imo, atleast compared to how hard some other frames have been nerfed), but he is still a very viable and powerful frame.  That being said, however, I believe that his Larva and Parasitic Link could use some minor tweaks for a little QoL / better team synergy. 

 

Larva

         The problems

Larva is a fairly decent CC ability that, which a high range build, is capable of pulling enemies from across entire rooms into a tight little ball, which sets them up perfectly to follow up with Virulence. It can be a bit buggy as enemies can get stuck plastered against the wall somewhere rather than getting pulled into the ball and forces you to wait for its duration to expire before being able to recast.  Not only that, other frame abilities can inhibit Larva's effectiveness, such as Vauban's Vortex and Zephyr's Tornados which can pull out enemies caught in Larva, or Frost's Avalanche which can prevent enemies being pulled altogether.  On a similar note, enemies that provide CC resistance buffs such as the Ancient Healers will cause nearby enemies to be un-pullable, even after the Healer itself is pulled in and killed.  Perhaps the most significant issue is when playing in a squad - a Nidus will typically use Larva to group things up to build stacks only to have a squadmate kill everything near-instantaneously, which effectively denies Nidus both energy and stacks.  Whether it is done by accident or intentionally, it is still a problem, as it can increase the time and effort it takes to build up stacks depending on the team comp / people you play with.

        Suggested Tweaks

- For pulled enemies getting stuck : Have Larva drop stuck enemies if they are not pulled in after a certain percentage of the ability's duration has passed.  For example, a 10 second Larva that drops stuck enemies after 50% of it's duration has passed will drop them after 5 seconds.  Alternatively (and probably the much simpler solution), Larva could function like Parasitic link where you can recast the ability to deactivate it.

- For being overridden by other Frame's abilities : Make it so that which ever ability an enemy was effected by first takes precedence over any other abilities for the remainder of its duration.  Take a Nidus and Hydroid for example - If enemies are first grabbed by Tentacle Swarm, they cannot be pulled out of it by Larva.  However, if enemies are first grabbed by Larva, Tentacle Swarm cannot pull enemies out of Larva and will instead spawn on top of the enemy ball (which is rather amusing actually).  I think that abilities like Vortex and Tornadoes should also behave in this manner.

- For squadmates killing enemies caught in Larvae : If allies kill enemies caught in Larva, it adds to Nidus' stack meter.  The Nidus who casted the Larva (if there are more than one) will still function as it does now - it will NOT gain stacks from killing things in its own Larva without the use of Virulence / Ravenous.  This would make it a little easier to gain stacks with a full squad running around murdering everything, while still having the Nidus use the intended method of stack building via Virulence / Ravenous.

 

Parasitic Link

           The Problems

Parasitc Link can give both you and a linked ally a boost in damage and power strength, or can transfer up to 90% of the damage you take if you are linked to an enemy.  I don't particularly have any issues with how linking to another player works and don't have any particular ideas in mind for tweaks for that part of it.  However, I will make note of how linked players using their Focus / Operator Mode, Frames using abilities (Atlas' Landslide, Valkyr's Hysteria, Wukong's Defy, etc) with invulnerable phases, or a Nidus linked to by another Nidus that Links to an enemy will all break Parasitic Link.  The problem with Parasitic Link, imo, lies in how it works with linking to enemies - it will completely immobilize them, but any enemies that grant Aura buffs of any kind will still grant them while they are linked to.  Link to a Parasitic / Energy Leech Eximus?  It will still drain you and your teammate's energy.  Link to a Venomous Eximus?  It's toxin aura might not phase you, but it'll constantly proc toxin on your teammates.  Link to an Ancient Healer? It'll still heal enemies effected by its aura and provide them with CC resistance.  Arctic Eximus? Will still make everyone slow, so on and so forth. When there are a lot of enemies on screen, sometimes it can get hard to see exactly what you are linking to, which your teammates are stuck dealing with whatever detrimental aura effects your linked enemy may have until it either dies (which can only take redirected dmg that dealt to Nidus), or the link's duration can expire.  Depending on the build, that can be a significant amount of time because even with only 130% Power Duration, Parasitic Link can last for 78 seconds.  One could argue that you can just find something else to link to, but that can be a bit of a tedious task, particularly with infested with the number of Parasitc Eximus that can spawn and it not being clear as to what type of Ancient the Eximus variants are.

            Suggested Tweaks

- For linked enemies still giving aura buffs to nearby enemies : Completely neutralize any aura buffs that an enemy may have while they are linked to - Ancient / Eximus units should have their auras completely disabled for the duration of the ability.  Alternatively (which I prefer), Have the linked enemies grant their auras to you and the rest of your team instead - like how Nyx's Mind Control makes those temporarily-allied units grant their Aura buff to squadmates who are in range.  Either option would fix the issue imo, but forcing a linked enemy to grant its Aura to you and your team would just be icing on the cake, not to mention incredibly satisfying.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Sin1989

[Kalvorax]

28 minutes ago, Sin1989 said:

          Suggested Tweaks

- For linked enemies still giving aura buffs to nearby enemies : Completely neutralize any aura buffs that an enemy may have while they are linked to - Ancient / Eximus units should have their auras completely disabled for the duration of the ability.  Alternatively (which I prefer), Have the linked enemies grant their auras to you and the rest of your team instead - like how Nyx's Mind Control makes those temporarily-allied units grant their Aura buff to squadmates who are in range.  Either option would fix the issue imo, but forcing a linked enemy to grant its Aura to you and your team would just be icing on the cake, not to mention incredibly satisfying.

how it should have been from the start... .as for the larva one, the whole point is to get the enemies in range and clustered up...make it so ONLY nidus can kill them, let the teammates do damage so in the end it still helps nidus get his stacks...though it would be nice if weaker enemies were killed then the larva would try and pull more enemies in to replace the dead ones during the duration.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Kalvorax

[Lokidus_Prime]

5 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

.as for the larva one, the whole point is to get the enemies in range and clustered up...make it so ONLY nidus can kill them, let the teammates do damage so in the end it still helps nidus get his stacks...though it would be nice if weaker enemies were killed then the larva would try and pull more enemies in to replace the dead ones during the duration.

That could definitely work as well.  It would also be really neat to see Larva pull more things in as enemies currently trapped died off, which could add some more variety for longer duration builds.

[Darkuhn]

On ‎15‎.‎03‎.‎2017 at 1:38 AM, Sin1989 said:

Depending on the build, that can be a significant amount of time because even with only 130% Power Duration, Parasitic Link can last for 78 seconds.  One could argue that you can just find something else to link to, but that can be a bit of a tedious task, particularly with infested with the number of Parasitc Eximus that can spawn and it not being clear as to what type of Ancient the Eximus variants are.

you know that you can end Parasitic link with another push of 3? don't you?

[Darkuhn]

On ‎15‎.‎03‎.‎2017 at 1:57 AM, Sin1989 said:

That could definitely work as well.  It would also be really neat to see Larva pull more things in as enemies currently trapped died off, which could add some more variety for longer duration builds.

I wouldn't like that, it would just be an bigger/better cc Vortex

[Denpoman]

On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 0:38 AM, Sin1989 said:

Nidus has been out for a couple months now, and plenty of people have had the opportunity to build him up and thoroughly test out his abilities.  Yes, he did get a minor nerf (which, was perfectly reasonable imo, atleast compared to how hard some other frames have been nerfed), but he is still a very viable and powerful frame.  That being said, however, I believe that his Larva and Parasitic Link could use some minor tweaks for a little QoL / better team synergy. 

 

Larva

         The problems

Larva is a fairly decent CC ability that, which a high range build, is capable of pulling enemies from across entire rooms into a tight little ball, which sets them up perfectly to follow up with Virulence. It can be a bit buggy as enemies can get stuck plastered against the wall somewhere rather than getting pulled into the ball and forces you to wait for its duration to expire before being able to recast.  Not only that, other frame abilities can inhibit Larva's effectiveness, such as Vauban's Vortex and Zephyr's Tornados which can pull out enemies caught in Larva, or Frost's Avalanche which can prevent enemies being pulled altogether.  On a similar note, enemies that provide CC resistance buffs such as the Ancient Healers will cause nearby enemies to be un-pullable, even after the Healer itself is pulled in and killed.  Perhaps the most significant issue is when playing in a squad - a Nidus will typically use Larva to group things up to build stacks only to have a squadmate kill everything near-instantaneously, which effectively denies Nidus both energy and stacks.  Whether it is done by accident or intentionally, it is still a problem, as it can increase the time and effort it takes to build up stacks depending on the team comp / people you play with.

        Suggested Tweaks

- For pulled enemies getting stuck : Have Larva drop stuck enemies if they are not pulled in after a certain percentage of the ability's duration has passed.  For example, a 10 second Larva that drops stuck enemies after 50% of it's duration has passed will drop them after 5 seconds.  Alternatively (and probably the much simpler solution), Larva could function like Parasitic link where you can recast the ability to deactivate it.

- For being overridden by other Frame's abilities : Make it so that which ever ability an enemy was effected by first takes precedence over any other abilities for the remainder of its duration.  Take a Nidus and Hydroid for example - If enemies are first grabbed by Tentacle Swarm, they cannot be pulled out of it by Larva.  However, if enemies are first grabbed by Larva, Tentacle Swarm cannot pull enemies out of Larva and will instead spawn on top of the enemy ball (which is rather amusing actually).  I think that abilities like Vortex and Tornadoes should also behave in this manner.

- For squadmates killing enemies caught in Larvae : If allies kill enemies caught in Larva, it adds to Nidus' stack meter.  The Nidus who casted the Larva (if there are more than one) will still function as it does now - it will NOT gain stacks from killing things in its own Larva without the use of Virulence / Ravenous.  This would make it a little easier to gain stacks with a full squad running around murdering everything, while still having the Nidus use the intended method of stack building via Virulence / Ravenous.

 

Parasitic Link

           The Problems

Parasitc Link can give both you and a linked ally a boost in damage and power strength, or can transfer up to 90% of the damage you take if you are linked to an enemy.  I don't particularly have any issues with how linking to another player works and don't have any particular ideas in mind for tweaks for that part of it.  However, I will make note of how linked players using their Focus / Operator Mode, Frames using abilities (Atlas' Landslide, Valkyr's Hysteria, Wukong's Defy, etc) with invulnerable phases, or a Nidus linked to by another Nidus that Links to an enemy will all break Parasitic Link.  The problem with Parasitic Link, imo, lies in how it works with linking to enemies - it will completely immobilize them, but any enemies that grant Aura buffs of any kind will still grant them while they are linked to.  Link to a Parasitic / Energy Leech Eximus?  It will still drain you and your teammate's energy.  Link to a Venomous Eximus?  It's toxin aura might not phase you, but it'll constantly proc toxin on your teammates.  Link to an Ancient Healer? It'll still heal enemies effected by its aura and provide them with CC resistance.  Arctic Eximus? Will still make everyone slow, so on and so forth. When there are a lot of enemies on screen, sometimes it can get hard to see exactly what you are linking to, which your teammates are stuck dealing with whatever detrimental aura effects your linked enemy may have until it either dies (which can only take redirected dmg that dealt to Nidus), or the link's duration can expire.  Depending on the build, that can be a significant amount of time because even with only 130% Power Duration, Parasitic Link can last for 78 seconds.  One could argue that you can just find something else to link to, but that can be a bit of a tedious task, particularly with infested with the number of Parasitc Eximus that can spawn and it not being clear as to what type of Ancient the Eximus variants are.

            Suggested Tweaks

- For linked enemies still giving aura buffs to nearby enemies : Completely neutralize any aura buffs that an enemy may have while they are linked to - Ancient / Eximus units should have their auras completely disabled for the duration of the ability.  Alternatively (which I prefer), Have the linked enemies grant their auras to you and the rest of your team instead - like how Nyx's Mind Control makes those temporarily-allied units grant their Aura buff to squadmates who are in range.  Either option would fix the issue imo, but forcing a linked enemy to grant its Aura to you and your team would just be icing on the cake, not to mention incredibly satisfying.

 

 

 

 

I agree with these.

Larva getting overriden by other frame's abilities is really dumb since it makes it useless and forces you to waste time waiting for the ability to end

Parasitic link giving the aura to the tenno makes perfect sense (it's called Parasitic ffs). At the very least make it disable for the enemy.

[Lokidus_Prime]

13 hours ago, Darkuhn said:

you know that you can end Parasitic link with another push of 3? don't you?

Of course, but simply pushing 3 again doesn't do anything to address the main issue with Parasitic Link in that Ancients / Eximus Units still buff nearby enemies with their Aura.  I can (and do) find new things to link to if I find I link to something bad, but the whole point is that I shouldn't have to worry about linking to something bad, because those bad things shouldn't be able to effect me or my teammates while it's linked to.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Sin1989
fixing typos

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Basically all of your suggestions are things I have said after playing with Nidus for a while now (kinda my new fav, 2nd only to Ash), so plus +1 for that.

Virulence: Pretty good as it is, just wish it was a bit wider in its range. Also, enemies don't seem to take damage if they run into it after its initial cast before it fades, they just walk through it. I mean they are spikes and should hurt/block any enemy from moving for the duration.

Larva: for the problem of grabbed enemies, it has a LoS mechanic to it, so if an enemy(s) is caught behind a wall, it will still be grabbed and pulled against the wall and immobilized for the duration, which is nice. The simplest answer to this that I have found would be to have larva transfer any afflicted damage from Nidus through the tentacles/sinews, kind of like (or exactly like, rather) Parasitic Link and down to the connected enemy(s). Fits his whole theme, too.

Parasitic Link: Completely agree. the best way to fix the issue is to have him negate/utilize any powers of the enemies that he is linked to (to a degree). This sort of happens now, but it's not across the board. If you link to an Ancient, Nidus will have knock-down immunity (which is nice) but that's really all/it. He should gain a healing factor or send out healing pulses that heal himself and any allies within range. Same goes for any other enemy qualities he links to (Bombards, Gunners, the little high health toxic infested guys, etc). I also don't like the fact that the enemy gets locked down. My main problem with this is the range, way too short. I think it'd be both cool and funny if Nidus absorbed the enemy and after the duration expires or the enemy takes too much he would just release/regurgitate/poop out the skeletal remains.

Ravenous: One thing I noticed, the maggots are always pink and don't match your energy color, I don't like this. It would be cool if this acted like Equinox's ultimate and had a certain range (denoted by power range or whatever) but moved with him. It'd be cool to see him infest areas as he moves, purely from a cosmetic standpoint. As it is, his inability(s) due to his powers being mainly stationary based make him less useful then Inaros, especially when you factor in the Nullifiers/Corpus. Nidus can't stand up well to Corpus.

Passives: Not a big fan.

- Undying is good, but the increase to 15 stacks is bad, should be 10. Stacks are hard enough to gain and keep, as it is (As you well know).

- Health Regen is nice, but not strong enough. Should be great enough to the point where Rejuv Aura is unnecessary, but it's not, it compliments up to the point of where it should be...especially considering that he has less health than Inaros and for a frame with no shields.

- Nullifiers removing stacks is bad. If you have 100 stacks and are in it for 5 seconds, you're done. On a heavy Nullifier levels, you can't bring him. This should be removed.

- The Helminth thing being a passive is a waste, truly and completely. If you cure your Nidus, it basically does nothing but open the door. This should just be a criteria of the room, not an ability of the frame. Seems a$$-backwards to me.

My Passive Ideas:

- Increased Health Regen rate. 

- Nidus has Life Steal with/when using Infested Weapons.

- Improved Undying (10 stacks consumed).

- Infested will be passive to Nidus if not attacked/Infested will fight for Nidus when Parasitic Linked to Petrified/High ranking infested enemies.

 

Note: Of course this is all based on the the fact that Nidus has no augments yet and some of them could fix some of these issues, but also creates the problem that you are taking up an essential mod slot to use these future augments, which is actually a big issue in WF, in general. Dedicated augment slots are truly needed.

Edited March 18, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[(PSN)ST-ChaoticMayhem]

I'm the type of player to kill enemies in nidus' larva and even I agree that the player should still benefit from that. I like the idea for Parasitic Link to disable enemy auras.