Aura System Discussion 9.1.4 Thread Merger

[Jeraggerjack]

From a post I made in another thread with too many pages that will fade into obscurity.

It's my opinion that Aura mods should cost 0 mod points and have no polarity. You use fusion cores and so on to rank them up, but their cost is exactly the same from unranked to maxed.

They cost 0 warframe mod points before and they added 0 warframe mod points. This should have stayed exactly the same. You get the aura mod, you slap it on, rank it up as you're able, and that's it. I'm guessing the polarities were added so people would branch out from Energy Siphon. 

*buzzer* WRONG.

Need to take a look at that. Maybe ditching the energy balls/energy siphon completely in favor of a +2 or +3 per second flat energy regeneration rate. Possibly a Volt party buff that increases energy regeneration for a few seconds, or another warframe where this kind of power would be appropiate. I'm thinking the ability name would be something like "Energize" It would regenerate the cost of the power back over the duration plus a little bit more, maybe +10 energy for the caster. Will keep the frame from being able to spam the ult while solo, but could have some pretty fun results if 2+ of the same frame are in a party together. Its something that if implemented, needs to have some serious thought put into it as far as balance before implementing.

For that matter. possibly dropping the health orbs in favor of a +1 to +3 flat hp regeneration rate per second, which can be increased to +6 maximum by a max rank rejuvenation maybe and possibly a trinity power that grants a regeneration bonus for about 8 seconds for the party. Maybe even dropping the rejuvenation artifact in favor of one that increases shield regeneration rate. Whichever DE feels is balanced. This health regen would obviously be disabled on vampire nightmare mode. As an added bonus, the health regeneration would actually give armor value ! Steel Fiber would be a serious mod to consider throwing for mid to high armor warframes.

In this way it would snap people out of the current funk and get them to use other artifact mods, without affecting the challenge and fun of the game.

The health regen would not be enough to keep you from dying if you get "burst" or kept under sustained fire. It should be enough to keep you alive and move from room to room. For added challenge, you can add a timer to the missions ( a reasonably generous one) so people don't have too much time to sit and regen health in between rooms. 

Thoughts?

Edited July 17, 2013 by Jeraggerjack

[Zhoyzu]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/80367-suggestion-lets-talk-about-auras/#entry875763

 

 

also energy siphon sucks why is everyone trying to nerf the energy and make the game boring. energy siphon should not be how people get energy. its so useless and has never helped. i have no idea what the obsession with it is.

 

edit:  "In this way it would snap people out of the current funk and get them to use other artifact mods, without affecting the challenge and fun of the game." 

 

how the hell will that get people to use different auras. they will only use energy siphon at this point. this thread was clearly not well thought out.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Zhoyzu

[Feldgrep]

Auras are fine as they are now.

[Relkin]

It seems like they're going out of their way to make this game as E-Z mode as possible :/  I mean nightmare is meh, T3's are still meh, once you're at the top your at godmode.  Why give more power?  Players act like power restrictions are punishment or a personal attack lol don't you people get bored of just blindly button mashing your way through tedious mindless missions, wash-rinse-repeat?

[DAwGi]

What are you doing that makes the game so easy?

You aim for the face, you pull the trigger until it's dead.  Someone shoots you up, you use an ability, and they are no longer shooting you up.  All it boiled down to was avoiding knockdown and green goo.  Nightmare mode is a total joke, and is exactly the opposite of what I was expecting in a difficulty boost.  This game was already stupid easy, and now it's just stupid.

[Morgdred]

Wow that's long read...

 

From what I see it has become the battle of Casual vs Elites. That happened in almost every multiplayer online game. Yes Elites that already have complete max power build will find extra mod point wasted; Yes Casual that enjoy game at slow pace will find the extra mod point benefit for potential unavailable mods, WHO lose?

 

Some claim DE would lose players for making game too easy, other claim DE would lose players for making game too hard. 

 

Lets just take a step back and remember that we are all different, that we have different taste and preferences. Hell I know there will be players whom regard Mag frame as the Godliest frame ever in the game!

 

Yes I personally believe everyone here arguing game system wishing the game to come out perfect, but is it even possible to make something perfect with every single player happy without second opinion?

[MangoMonkey]

What are you doing that makes the game so easy?

 

Playing the game with the ability to aim roughly in the direction of a head and hit the "4" button? This game is not a difficult or challenging game. They recently tried to increase that challenge, with reasonable success, only to completely undo it with this utterly ridiculous change.

[DAwGi]

Not even half, if anything it should have the effect of one forma tops.

[Mickey1779]

Personally remove Aura polarities altogether and have them give nor consume any mod points.  Then people will use Auras for what they do and what they bring to the squad.  Then you can work on balancing the Auras.

 

Today's change has made it so Auras that are not hyphen polarity are garbage, end of story.  After the nerf to Rifle Amp the top 3 Auras are ALL hyphen polarity (Energy Siphon, Enemy Radar and Corrosive Projection).

 

You Forma your Aura slot to a hyphen add a reactor and you have 74 mod points and can put pretty much all max mods in your frame.

 

If DE wanted to reduce the amount of Forma people bought to upgrade their gear, today's Aura change did that in spades.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mickey1779

[SirAuron]

New Mods that if DE isn't required to balance within the existing system will force them to "balance" them else where. Mostly with needless enemy stat boosts. As I've said we can have a different discussion about if the current 30/60/120(forma) and 8 slots is enough customization in a different Feedback talk.

 

This is very much about balance, and long term balance at that. The fact that you're thinking about all the "new mods" the problems people will have should tell you power creep is already underway. DE is making "trap" mods like Handspring that people don't pick because it is borderline worthless next to 'better' choices. No one uses the Elemental Resistance mods either. In 3.5 D&D this was called the Toughness Feat.

 

 

However that is controlled increases. With predicable results. Done for very specific reasons. Letting DE's devs have the tool for uncontrolled Mod energy growth means they won't be forced to directly sit down and think about the ramifications of each micro-power bump until its gotten out of hand. The very essence of power creep.

 

Again, if we want to talk about the current cap (60 points and 8 slots) in terms of long term meta that's a great discussion on its own. It should not be done around the frame work of ad-hoc and likely to be uncontrolled system.

The new energy cap is 74. I don't see 74 points being an issue even if it doesn't come from Auras. If they cap it at 75 and make auras cost 0 points then that is good. Gives players more incentive to play old frames and play longer which means more cash flow. I made a suggestion to increase level cap to 25 or 40 with or without additional slots.because in the future, 60 points won't be enough. Just think how extremely limiting things are. 

 

If they devs cannot come up with clever mods then this is the best step towards the future. All auras cap at 14. When this power creep happens, then you can complain, until then, use the wait n see approach.

 

The general idea of giving players more skill points is to expand they arsenal a provide a greater experience in the long run especially with more skills or in warframes case, more mods. Hell, frames might get an additional power in the future. you never know what the future holds.

 

So bring on a higher point cap, even if it means suing auras do to it. In the end it means more customization.

 

And instead of worrying why not give ideas to have this 75 energy cap if you don't like Auras doing it. think of it as a 14 point increase in energy and remeber that it only applies to those who may use right aura, no tthe wrong ones who get only a 67 cap.

[Ventias]

Playing the game with the ability to aim roughly in the direction of a head and hit the "4" button? This game is not a difficult or challenging game. They recently tried to increase that challenge, with reasonable success, only to completely undo it with this utterly ridiculous change.

 

You aim for the face, you pull the trigger until it's dead.  Someone shoots you up, you use an ability, and they are no longer shooting you up.  All it boiled down to was avoiding knockdown and green goo.  Nightmare mode is a total joke, and is exactly the opposite of what I was expecting in a difficulty boost.  This game was already stupid easy, and now it's just stupid.

then why are u still playing it? why force your self to play something that is neither fun nor enjoyable to you? Just because you dont seem to enjoy the game any more, then why must you ruin the experience for others too?

[SirAuron]

Playing the game with the ability to aim roughly in the direction of a head and hit the "4" button? This game is not a difficult or challenging game. They recently tried to increase that challenge, with reasonable success, only to completely undo it with this utterly ridiculous change.

People were dying to much. What you expect.  They answered the players prayers who wanted the game to not be so hard and they answered your prayers of making it harder. both sides wins.

 

Deal with it.

 

Too easy? Don't use extra points. that simple.

[Jeraggerjack]

Auras are fine as they are now.

Lets be honest here. They're not. Affecting mod points for the frames in any way is not a good idea. A better way of doing this would have been raising the level cap on the frames by 5 or 10 levels.

As it is right now, it makes forma almost completely unnecessary for warframes and breaks the game. I should not have 20 mod slots available to use at level 3. Not even with a reactor was this possible.

This is as elegant a solution I can think of.

[SirAuron]

And remember, they literally shoehorned this aura system in which only made things harder and perhaps easier depending on you used Forma.

 

thats right, not everyone used Forma so just accept it. Froma isn't easy to come by. it's rare. People are just buying themselves an easy win and are now complaining that its too easy not giving a damn about the non Forma users who only end up using forma on clan weapons. But not everyone has done that.

Edited July 17, 2013 by SirAuron

[MangoMonkey]

then why are u still playing it? why force your self to play something that is neither fun nor enjoyable to you? Just because you dont seem to enjoy the game any more, then why must you ruin the experience for others too?

 

Ironic, given that's exactly what you're doing. We got the challenge we were seeking and which we enjoy at higher levels and, because that was just that little bit too tough for you, you all *@##$ed and moaned about the new aura system (trade some energy for a team buff? Oh god, the horror!) until that challenge and entertainment has been removed. Save your hypocrisy, this change is insane.

[Jeraggerjack]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/80367-suggestion-lets-talk-about-auras/#entry875763

 

 

also energy siphon sucks why is everyone trying to nerf the energy and make the game boring. energy siphon should not be how people get energy. its so useless and has never helped. i have no idea what the obsession with it is.

 

edit:  "In this way it would snap people out of the current funk and get them to use other artifact mods, without affecting the challenge and fun of the game." 

 

how the hell will that get people to use different auras. they will only use energy siphon at this point. this thread was clearly not well thought out.

You clearly didn't read the entire post. I suggested DROPPING energy siphon and the energy balls in favor of a flat passive energy regeneration system.

edit: Whoops , my bad, I forgot to put that little smidgen in. Done.

Clarified the health part as well.

Also, the idea I'm suggesting is not a nerf to energy, it would be a buff. As far as the aura system, it would be a "buff" compared to the old system before the recent hotfix change. The only reason why it would seem a "nerf" is because they overbuffed it with this change and broke the balance of the game.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Jeraggerjack

[Ventias]

Ironic, given that's exactly what you're doing. We got the challenge we were seeking and which we enjoy at higher levels and, because that was just that little bit too tough for you, you all *@##$ed and moaned about the new aura system (trade some energy for a team buff? Oh god, the horror!) until that challenge and entertainment has been removed. Save your hypocrisy, this change is insane.

give me examples, dont just throw words out. Also, you "elites" STILL said the game was easy with the previous aura system. This changed affected you in no way shape or form, you just hate the fact that it is easier for people to reach what you have accomplished through a long time. 

 

edit: You never enjoyed the game, and never will. you enjoy seeing other people struggle with what you have accomplished. fact? the AURA SYSTEM AFFECTS YOU IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM. You elites have already maxed out your gear to the point that you cant make the game any easier than it is for you right now. 

Edited July 17, 2013 by Ventias

[SirAuron]

Ironic, given that's exactly what you're doing. We got the challenge we were seeking and which we enjoy at higher levels and, because that was just that little bit too tough for you, you all *@##$ed and moaned about the new aura system (trade some energy for a team buff? Oh god, the horror!) until that challenge and entertainment has been removed. Save your hypocrisy, this change is insane.

Says the Froma abusers who uses Forma to make the game easy for himself. You cried when the game was too easy and now your crying again after it's been made hard.

 

Choke on that Forma crybaby.

[DAwGi]

then why are u still playing it? why force your self to play something that is neither fun nor enjoyable to you? Just because you dont seem to enjoy the game any more, then why must you ruin the experience for others too?

 

Ruin the game by making you spend time playing to power up your stuff?  No, nothing was ruined before.  People could still play the game before.  I actually gave the company money for a game when they said they would find ways to make it more challenging.  And now they took any challenge away, and there is no chance of me getting my money back.  So there you have it, they've ruined the game for hardcore players, taken there money, and then given the game to the casual crowd and basically flipped me the bird.  Now I have no reason to actually play the game, which is why I am here, on the forums, to vent about how pissed I am.

[SirAuron]

Here's a solution, don't use extra points. Issue resolved.

 

Now go watch your random teammates die because this game got hard.

[naughtytenno]

Playing the game with the ability to aim roughly in the direction of a head and hit the "4" button? This game is not a difficult or challenging game. They recently tried to increase that challenge, with reasonable success, only to completely undo it with this utterly ridiculous change.

 

With 4 maxed Energy Siphons in the squad, you even wonder why enemies bother to drop blue orbs. 

[SirAuron]

[KingTaro]

This was a great idea! And as you can see, many people love this idea.

 

But let us be honest, it is impossible to satisfy everyone.

So if most people are satisfied with the change, it's a good move!

 

Well done DE!

You once again showed us that you really do take actions based on the feedback from the community!

[MangoMonkey]

Says the Froma abusers who uses Forma to make the game easy for himself. You cried when the game was too easy and now your crying again after it's been made hard.

 

Choke on that Forma crybaby.

 

I love this post, it's so ironic. I've never used a single Forma. Not once. Not on a single weapon. I have a single weapon with a Catalyst in it, and two Warframes, most of whom I don't use, because even a level 30 un-charged Frame offers four powers and a shield boost, which is all you'll ever need even now.

 

The game is easy because enemies die quickly to level 20 weapons if you have a single idea of how to mod your weapons and, if they don't you have a "single button to wipe a room" back-up. So take your stupid assumptions and choke on them, because you're wrong, and you're the worst kind of player for attempting to create a healthy game for all players - you're so mindlessly concerned that you might actually have to learn how to aim and move that you throw insults at everyone around you. The game is easy because I can play it. I have eight Forma's in my inventory, right now, and they're only ever used to create Clan Weapons.

Edited July 17, 2013 by MangoMonkey

[Jeraggerjack]

Another thought, if they end up reverting this change, then they should probably take care to implement the new patch with a method to strip the equipped mods of all the frames and move the mods to the mod inventory.  Otherwise you'll have a lot of frames with 30 equipped / 6 available mod points and such.