Energy system, let's talk about it

[Sziklamester]

The easiest way to be energy efficient if the hp and energy regeneration abilities are passive. We have super armors in the future which doesn't regenerate at all. A small amount of regeneration could be a thing like 1 hp and energy / sec. Also what you suggested is partly viable because gameplay wise many people spamming their abilities in order to kill something. Currently I am using equilibrium on my frames and making energy just by hit and collecting orbs. On lower level the orbs are frequent but rarely when you go higher and there at least needs the energy pizzas.

Personally I would like a passive built in regen on frames.

 

Edit: 3 years ago used energy pizza back in time when the energy was only for self use. Not really felt the needs to use it.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Sziklamester

[(XBOX)LoneRyder3926]

I think a built-in energy Siphon would be ok....anything else would be too much if you ask me

[Phyrak]

You have me intrigued of as to how equilibrium would work...

It tends to be a go to mod on most of my builds

[Sziklamester]

A passive energy and hp regen doesn't break the game because the 1/sec as hp and energy is still 25 sec until you can use your first of course depend on the frame but at least you can avoid the battle then go back when your energy is up.

Same with the hp and that can be helpful if you play as a solo frame which no have self regen ability or the aura differ. Then no needs always waiting and soloing with support healers because you can avoid a battle. This won't make the game much less easier just a little bit and still there could be energy/hp orbs and support frames. The siphon could be buffed up to 1 energy and the rejuvination is fine it's way but the passive energy and hp regen is easily can be implement without any other passive removal.

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Sziklamester

[Omnimorph]

Disagree with this.  

The random element of orb-dropping is precisely something that still keeps some element of challenge for many frames ("will I get energy in time to do x - oh there's an orb over there, bullet jump over to it, get swatted by a mob I didn't see").  

We don't want another predictable or in-our-control source of energy, that's precisely what we DON'T want, given we already have pizzas and other things like Zenurik regen.  We need to keep some element of randomness and occasional drought, otherwise we're lost.

Even the fact that some frames are better set up for energy than others is part of the luck of the draw, and something you have to cope with and make choices within the limitations of.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Omnimorph

[Helljack84]

27 minutes ago, Omnimorph said:

-snip-

How is it challenging or a meaningful choice when it just comes down to do I pop another energy pizza?

Edited April 3, 2017 by Helljack84

[Casval_Rouge]

6 hours ago, (PS4)rowansprite said:

Not bad ideas, not at all, but my one problem with this is that giving frames energy sources aside from what we have now might discourage weapon play at all. Caster frames should still have a reason to use their weapons. Nidus, whom I would consider a caster since he's so reliant on constantly casting abilities, discourages me from using weapons almost entirely- and don't get me wrong here, I LOVE using abilities to the point that frames who specialize in killing with them tend to be favorites of mine, but I still want a reason to use weapons frequently. What you're proposing isn't bad at all for frames where abilities are more supportive- Saryn could be an example of one, since her abilities are really more about degrading health than outright killing- but frames who get a lot of damage from abilities... not so much. 

Perhaps not have the energy regen be focused on ability use, but rather contextual actions? For example, you said:

So, rather than just using abilities, as what you said implies a Nidus-touch relation with her abilities, instead she could simply do heat damage from any source to build it up. It would encourage unique weapon builds focused around heat damage and provide more reason to use Accelerant in conjunction with her abilities (not that you shouldn't be doing it anyway, but still).

As one of the example in one of my post I said energy could be gain from outside of abilities doing damage or kill.  Your Ember example is exactly what I meant.  I wouldn't want Mesa, a gunslinger theme warframe to just be casting powers, as aside from Peacemaker, they don't do much without you shooting people in the face.  So maybe shooting someone in the head with Ballistic Battery at 100% will give you energy.  Furthermore, you have 1 second to hit as many headshots as you can and the buff will apply to those shots, therefore you'll net more energy with one cast of it.  But missing the weakspot will deactivate it.  That's what I meant energy should be earned.  But if you're not very good at it, there's the consumables and the nerfed aura and Rage to help out.    
 

6 hours ago, ashrah said:

that can be easy fixed add alll frames passive energy syphon  energy regen 1.6 per sec..

As I said before.  Each Warframe has a very different energy usage.  Some uses way more than others as part of their kit.  You can't give everyone the same amount and think that would be balance for all.

46 minutes ago, Omnimorph said:

Disagree with this.  

The random element of orb-dropping is precisely something that still keeps some element of challenge for many frames ("will I get energy in time to do x - oh there's an orb over there, bullet jump over to it, get swatted by a mob I didn't see").  

We don't want another predictable or in-our-control source of energy, that's precisely what we DON'T want, given we already have pizzas and other things like Zenurik regen.  We need to keep some element of randomness and occasional drought, otherwise we're lost.

Even the fact that some frames are better set up for energy than others is part of the luck of the draw, and something you have to cope with and make choices within the limitations of.

Really?  Jumping to an orb is a challenge now?  RNG is what gives us the challenge we so need?  And you think that's good challenge?  Not everything needs to be in control and constant, which is why we have enemies like Eximus.  There are merits to the argument that unpredictable situations could challenge us to properly react to different obstacles, I would never dispute that.  However energy is a different matter because Warframes rely on it to stand apart from another.  They already can just gun down or melee anyone without much dissimilarity.  And my point wasn't to make it easy to gain energy.  I'm saying they should take some skill to achieve, especially when under stress.  That's how you should make people stop spamming because energy won''t be as simple to gain.  Rather than trying to stop them outright from using powers because the source is cut off for uncontrollable reasons. 

 

[Omnimorph]

7 hours ago, Helljack84 said:

How is it challenging or a meaningful choice when it just comes down to do I pop another energy pizza?

If anything, it's just an argument against pizzas, they're actually the devil's work in the game - yet I have the large team ones and use them all the time (although sometimes I do restrain myself deliberately).

They're actually what makes the energy orbs redundant, because by the time you're a late game player you've got enough resources to make hundreds of the bloody things and pop them like candy if you want.

[Omnimorph]

6 hours ago, Casval_Rouge said:

 

There are merits to the argument that unpredictable situations could challenge us to properly react to different obstacles, I would never dispute that.  However energy is a different matter because Warframes rely on it to stand apart from another.  They already can just gun down or melee anyone without much dissimilarity.  And my point wasn't to make it easy to gain energy.  I'm saying they should take some skill to achieve, especially when under stress.  That's how you should make people stop spamming because energy won''t be as simple to gain.  Rather than trying to stop them outright from using powers because the source is cut off for uncontrollable reasons. 

 

I don't think anything that makes things more complicated than they are is going to fly for those who are in the early and mid game.  The energy/orb plan is good, DE just screwed it up by giving us late gamers the giant pizzas.  If they'd stuck to the smaller and medium ones that only give you an emergency pop, then things would be fine.

We're conditioned by being late game players to see the game in a particular way, but my "most played" character is still Volt, yet Volt is the character I was playing through the early to mid game, for quite a few months, when the game was occasionally quite challenging, before I was a god of destruction with a hundred giant energy pizzas in my satchel, etc.

We tend to forget how the game is actually fairly well balanced from the early to mid game.  Now theoretically, some of the "god of destruction" element we have in the late game (I hesitate to say "endgame" because we don't actually have one yet) is in part a reward for perseverance through the early times (which, I repeat, we've forgotten because we've been playing the game for so long).  But in part I suspect it's probably also some "headroom" for some endgame proper to come, in relation to which what we currently think of as "OP" will be about balanced, just as the early and mid game are fairly well balanced.  So I wouldn't be too keen on rejigging the system that much until we see the game actually finished - like finished finished, in terms of actually having an endgame proper.

In short, while there's some merit to what you say, I don't think it's a problem with the system, which works pretty well through most of the game.  DE just went overboard with the large pizzas, that's all.  The rest - the fact that some frames are more energy hungry, others less, some have a harder time of it, some an easier time, is still within balance.