After The Dust Settled (U9 Feedback)

[Xylia]

So now that a lot of the Dust has settled, many bugs have been fixed since last night, and I've had more time to playtest more things....

 

I'll try and provide my feedback and suggestions.

 

#1: Dojo. This is the easiest thing to address: Thank you very much for the Resource Cost tweaks. Dojos and Research Weapons are now much more reasonable to small groups of friends, or if you're a Clan of 1, still do-able, but it will take some time. Thank you very much. The only suggestion I have to make here, is that we could use some type of room that adds Capacity, but doesn't increase the size of your clan. As you add more rooms to the Dojo, small clans will run out of Capacity without building a Great Hall. They don't want to build a Great Hall, though, because that will suddenly increase the costs of everything in the Dojo.

 

EDIT: For clarity's sake as someone raised the question, I'm talking about increasing ROOM Capacity without increasing Clan Size.

 

#2: Resource Drops. Again, Thank you very much for helping us with this. Control Modules, Neurodes, and Neural Sensors are no longer the "OMG WHYYYYY!?!?!" item. I've already gotten a few from today. A part of me worries about the other resources as they seem to drop less often, but I haven't made enough runs to really tell yet.

 

#3: Planet Levels. This is one of the few things I'm not sure I like about Update 9. I know a lot of Elite players were complaining the game was "too easy", but I think you upped the challenge on the worlds just a tad too high. Newbies are going to have trouble getting Control Modules (because the lowest level missions you can get those from are in the mid 30s) for their first Warframe. Most of the other materials except maybe Orokin Cells seem reasonable to get. IIRC, Saturn has been increased to the 30s too. So that probably means that a Newbie will need carried by an experienced player if they want to build their first Warframe sometime within 80-100 hours of playtime. I think there should be enough teens-leveled systems so that everybody has a low and a high-level option for all the materials. This is the way it was before, and it worked. Now, Orokin Cells and Control Modules are simply out of reach for newbies. Also, Newbies/Lowbies might get tired of being stuck on the same 3-4 planets for ever and ever and ever and ever until they can meaningfully contribute to higher level missions.

 

#4: Challenge Modes. Awesome idea, but lackluster implementation IMO. We need a way to turn Challenge Modes off. Sometimes they appear on boss maps (what happens when you need that boss for Warframe BPs? You're not supposed to do it at all?). Also, earlier, I wanted to farm Neural Sensors from Jupiter, but the Skulls were on all the Raid, Capture, and Exterminate missions. All that was left was Defense, Mobile Defense, and Rescue. No Thanks. Give us a way to turn Nightmare Mode off, OR, give us a way to select the Normal version of a mission. OR, give us a little button up by the Mode Selector that turns Nightmare Mode On, which allows us to play any level we want on Nightmare.

 

#5: Nova: Haven't been able to play her yet, sadly. This is because........

 

#6: Raptor: Something needs done with his loot mechanics. Even if you fix him to where he drops things like bosses should (he frequently drops absolutely nothing), we are STILL going to have problems with his drops ragdolling into areas Tenno can't reach. Even if they drop straight down, there's still a chance that BPs, Mods, etc will land on the sides of the cliffs, ontop of those tall containers you can't get ontop of, etc. That's just how a flying boss works. IMO, all bosses could use a tweak -- when the boss is killed, the loot should appear in the center of the boss's arena in a predetermined place, with no ragdoll physics at all as soon as the boss dies and the loot should hover in the air at waist-height kinda like the resources do now. That way, the boss's drops can be distinguished from other crap laying around like ammo boxes, debris, Osprey Mines (in the case of Jackal), etc. And even then, the drop chance on the Blueprints seems much too low. I killed it probably about 10 times now, and have yet to see a single Blueprint.

 

#7: Defense: I've finally had a chance to play some of these, and eh... to be honest, this new "RUSH RUSH RUSH" mechanic they have should be turned off on Solo Mode, except for Nightmare. There are some planets in which things are gated behind Defense missions, and sometimes there's nobody playing at some of them which means you need to attempt to solo it yourself. But when everything rushes straight for the cryopod/reactor, a solo player is going to get overwhelmed unless he grossly out-gears the place. Even with a friend, we had troubles on Gaia (Lv12 Defense on Earth). I was using a Lv30 braton capable of dropping anything except Heavy Gunners in 1-2 bullets. We still had times where the health would dip down to 60-70% because there was just so much crap attacking the thing all at once. How is a solo player supposed to successfully do this, again?

Edited July 13, 2013 by Xylia

[PsychedelicSnake]

I agree with a lot of this. But personally, I have no problem soloing Defense missions, even those at higher levels, but that is just me.

[Winterbraid]

It just came to me... How about having a Boss Locker somewhere in the boss arena, distinguishable by its golden glow, that unlocks once the boss has fallen? Sort of like in Diablo or Torchlight. Gets rid of scooping the room for drops, or drops falling out of reach. Could also put it behind a team switch to slow down rushers.

[PsychedelicSnake]

It just came to me... How about having a Boss Locker somewhere in the boss arena, distinguishable by its golden glow, that unlocks once the boss has fallen? Sort of like in Diablo or Torchlight. Gets rid of scooping the room for drops, or drops falling out of reach. Could also put it behind a team switch to slow down rushers.

 

This would definitely solve a lot of problems. +1000

[Xylia]

It just came to me... How about having a Boss Locker somewhere in the boss arena, distinguishable by its golden glow, that unlocks once the boss has fallen? Sort of like in Diablo or Torchlight. Gets rid of scooping the room for drops, or drops falling out of reach. Could also put it behind a team switch to slow down rushers.

 

Given how common resources are now (I don't care about boss dropping resources anymore), why can't the MISSION ITSELF reward the Blueprint?

 

They could do this for all bosses: Make it act just like Raid or Capture, and the Mission Itself rewards a Mod + chance for a Blueprint reward at the end.

 

I mean, seriously, what's the difference between killing the boss and trying to locate this orb that ragdoll'd to who-knows-where, or just getting the Blueprint at the end when you step into the extraction pod?

Edited July 13, 2013 by Xylia

[Angius]

1. That's the idea. Smaller clan - less cost. Because it's small. If it's big - it will obviously cost more. If not, then what is the purpose of scaling? Hey, you can just build smallest dojo and add lots of this additional rooms, so you can get highest tier capacity with lowest tier prices...

[Xylia]

1. That's the idea. Smaller clan - less cost. Because it's small. If it's big - it will obviously cost more. If not, then what is the purpose of scaling? Hey, you can just build smallest dojo and add lots of this additional rooms, so you can get highest tier capacity with lowest tier prices...

 

I thought the idea of scaling was to allow small clans (as in POPULATION) to be able to build a dojo, whereas highly populated clans need to put more effort in?

 

I never heard DE once say that they wanted physical clan sizes as in rooms be limited by a clan's population...

 

100 Capacity does not go very far. Any clan will probably want Oracle + 3 Research Rooms. You will probably also need at least 2 cross connectors for these, and probably at least 2 reactors. That's what my clan has thusfar and we're already down to 60 Capacity.

 

We haven't built an obstacle course (that takes 10 alone), a Duelling Room (another 10 IIRC) and now we're down to 40 Capacity. That is assuming we don't need any more cross connectors (10 each), or we might need another reactor.

 

What happens if they add (insert awesome room here) in U10? Like a shooting range or something?

 

We're going to run out of Capacity and we're TRYING to build a bare-bones dojo as it is.

 

We want to have at least 1 of every room, but we shouldn't have to upgrade our Clan Type, even though we've only got 4 members in our clan.

[Chimwizlet]

The boss locker idea would be awesome. As soon as the boss is defeated the objective marker could point you to the team switch/loot and only point you to the exit once you've hoovered it up.

[Angius]

I thought the idea of scaling was to allow small clans (as in POPULATION) to be able to build a dojo, whereas highly populated clans need to put more effort in?

 

I never heard DE once say that they wanted physical clan sizes as in rooms be limited by a clan's population...

 

100 Capacity does not go very far. Any clan will probably want Oracle + 3 Research Rooms. You will probably also need at least 2 cross connectors for these, and probably at least 2 reactors. That's what my clan has thusfar and we're already down to 60 Capacity.

 

We haven't built an obstacle course (that takes 10 alone), a Duelling Room (another 10 IIRC) and now we're down to 40 Capacity. That is assuming we don't need any more cross connectors (10 each), or we might need another reactor.

 

What happens if they add (insert awesome room here) in U10? Like a shooting range or something?

 

We're going to run out of Capacity and we're TRYING to build a bare-bones dojo as it is.

 

We want to have at least 1 of every room, but we shouldn't have to upgrade our Clan Type, even though we've only got 4 members in our clan.

You mean rooms capacity? Oh, I misunderstood you. I was thinking, that you said about people capacity...

[Xylia]

You mean rooms capacity? Oh, I misunderstood you. I was thinking, that you said about people capacity...

 

Ahh. lol.

 

No, I'm talking about ways to increase Room Capacity without increasing Clan Size.

[Sethrea]

Lots of good feedback.

Been reading these most of the evening though and I am surprised how little people complain about UI bugging out all the time, I guess I must be extremely unlucky in this regard.

[TonyFoot]

Xylia, you is best Tenno. Really glad to have a Grand Master who knows what they're talking about.

 

All these points are completely valid and accurate, though I think something should be said about how Auras need to either get seriously tweaked or get seriously out of the way. the artefacts were better at team co-ordination, even if they were a little bit underpowered. the new artefacts also take up precious mod space, even on potatoed frames, so they all feel very tied-up and constrictive, especially with the polarities.

 

The difficulty spike was a surprise, and not entirely a pleasant one. Got my shiny backside handed to me on several bosses, and I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be for the new players, having to deal with such hard fights. might need some work on that scaling, especially in the earlier levels!

 

Also, the loot from tower (frost prime, latron prime) needs to be easier to access; its WAAAYYY too bloody frustrating to waste keys on that mess! Honestly, I think a token system needs to be implemented here, maybe tying in with the market. It would cool a lot of flared tempers. not sure how people feel about that idea tho...

 

And speaking of the market, what's going on there then, eh? Buy-able resources? that's treading awfully close to the pay-to-play/win cliff there, mate!

 

My last complaint is the new map: I can't see where my squad-mates have voted, can't see what levels I've done or haven't done, can't get at regular missions when there's an alert or nightmare over top, on and on... the whole thing LOOKS great, and it feels easier to navigate from planet to planet with a feel of where you're going, but with those issues in the way, it just feels sloppy. Might need some work there, then!

 

you can tell a lot of work went in to this, and some of the designs were inspired, but there were some key things left out, and the game suffered as a result. Other than that, this whole update has been a blast! New Frame, new weapons, new bosses, new game mode rooms for the various tile sets. All of it looks really great, even if it doesn't work really great. Tweaks and Hot-fixes on the horizon, Tenno! Keep up the great work, Devs!

[TheHeraldXII]

Hmm, I agree mostly.

The issue with level scaling isn't actually so bad, now the game has a difficulty curve rather than a difficulty wave where it starts off moderately difficult, gets crazy easy and gets hard again, before settling on easy again. That said, the issue of control modules being locked out of reach of new players is very real and should be addressed. Adding control modules as a drop to early Corpus levels would do nicely I think, Venus and Mars both seem like good candidates.

The resource drop changes are great, love it.

Challenge modes need to have a seperate icon next to the mission like alerts, preferably also telling us what manner of challenge we're getting into. Other than that I like those changes. But really, people need to know what they're getting into with those and have the option to not do the super hardcore version of that level.

The changes to the defense AI are just.... strange. Why did this even seem like a good idea in the first place? The enemies shouldn't be marching relentlessly past the actual threats to attack a stationary target, that's just crazy. That and as Xylia said, some people have to do these solo you know. It didn't make group play more fun and it made solo downright frustrating.

 

As an added point, this whole notion of boss scaling is silly. The boss should scale with the level of the planet and maybe the number of players, but that's it. It's ok for early game content to get easier later, it's not an issue, and this change caused more problems than it solved. Please, this is the second of two changes I actually don't like in U9, reconsider this decision.

[Kappatalist]

I strongly agree with the resources, level, and challenge mode points you make, OP.