Thoughts on Shield Gating

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

8 hours ago, SolarDwagon said:

Cute. None of those OHKO you on the starchart. You literally said it yourself in the last one. HORDES. Shield gating won't save you.

This is a 3rd person horde shooter ya know? I dunno what sort of game everyone else is playing, but outside of the meta where the majority of players are you'll run into a lot of situations where there is 10+ dudes running at you plus whatever Eximus aura. Ever seen an Arctic Napalm Eximus?

8 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Are you assuming that Shield Gating will not have a cooldown of sorts, that Sentinel Guardian mod or any way to replenish Shields will effectively make you immortal?

You running headfirst into a crowd of 30 enemies will still get you killed from the barrage of gunfire and melee hits that melt through your shields like butter.

Because even I don't face tank. I will run into a room full of enemies, and once I notice my shields going down, I can just duck out again, it's not like we're glued to the floor in this game. Shields recharge and I'm good to go, by the time my shields are gonna fall again under normal circumstances I'll just have the shield gating cooldown out of the way. Also, Taxon is a thing.

5 hours ago, WindigoTP said:

How exactly being protected from 1 bullet out of 30 shot at you reduces anything? And it's not even 30 bullets either, 'cuz Grineer uses auto-fire. So it's 1 bullet out of clemton, every once in a while, if you haven't been hit for the last X seconds, when the full moon shines in the sky, while the planets are lined up in a parade.

 

Shield gating is meant to protect you from a random stray bullet that you wouldn't be able to see coming. Suicide is still going be the exact same suicide.

Look at above reply

4 hours ago, Jeoxz said:

Here's the list of things that Shield gating will stop:

Bombards, and Snipers

Anything else shots more that once, rifles will ignore it, shotguns might take one more shot, Napalms will be like "K lol here's a heat proc goodbye".

And take into account that there's usually a mix of enemies.

Except you can dodge both Bombards and Ballistas? Even Corpus snipers are garbage up close

4 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Dude, a shield gate lasts like 2 seconds, tops. It's not gonna prevent your from. Dying, just dying the instant your shield goes down. 

And again, parkour is a thing

[Extirpator]

The problem?

Take a Chroma with full shield, put on a freshly Vex Armor and stand infront of a Lv100 Bombard, Naplam or whatever.

And the result will be your answer.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Extirpator

[TheBrsrkr]

5 hours ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

And again, parkour is a thing

So? Your shields don't instantly come back as you run away, and you can still be hit as you parkour away. There will also most likely be a set amount of recharge it would take for the gate to activate. That's even if the gate functions as an absolute health gate in the first place. In Borderlands, the shield gate prevented you from losing more than 70%of your max health in one  shot, and provided 20% damage reduction as the shield breaks on non instakill hits. There was an entire ability based around it where your shield would instantly recharge as it was broken so that it would never actually break and you would just get the damage reduction all the time. You're still taking health damage through the shield gate, so it's not something you can do ad nauseum. 

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

10 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

So? Your shields don't instantly come back as you run away, and you can still be hit as you parkour away. There will also most likely be a set amount of recharge it would take for the gate to activate. That's even if the gate functions as an absolute health gate in the first place. In Borderlands, the shield gate prevented you from losing more than 70%of your max health in one  shot, and provided 20% damage reduction as the shield breaks on non instakill hits. There was an entire ability based around it where your shield would instantly recharge as it was broken so that it would never actually break and you would just get the damage reduction all the time. You're still taking health damage through the shield gate, so it's not something you can do ad nauseum. 

You can knock down enemies with bullet jumps on top of being harder to hit and now that aviator is back and buffed, yea

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 4/29/2017 at 1:39 AM, Hemmo67 said:

shield gating normally is when your shield goes down the excess dmg from that hit or bullet is absorbed but the next shots dmg your health

so if u have 2 snipers shoot at your simutaneously u will die cuz first hit, takes away shield 2nd finishes you off

 

now the problem of shield gating is. will corpus get it too?

I doubt it'd change much with them, honestly. We hardly touch their shields as it is with Toxin and Gas Procs, and even if we do, we have Finisher damage to ignore the gating as well.

[TheBrsrkr]

1 hour ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

You can knock down enemies with bullet jumps on top of being harder to hit and now that aviator is back and buffed, yea

That changes literally nothing. 

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 hour ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

You can knock down enemies with bullet jumps on top of being harder to hit and now that aviator is back and buffed, yea

I think you're taking this WAY out of proportion. Aviator doesn't help at all, 35% in the grand scheme of things is negligible. Our "knockdown" radius on bullet jumps is smaller than our loot pickup range without a Sentinel. You're just overthinking this mate.

Edited May 5, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

4 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

That changes literally nothing. 

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

I think you're taking this WAY out of proportion. Aviator doesn't help at all, 35% in the grand scheme of things is negligible. Our "knockdown" radius on bullet jumps is smaller than our loot pickup range without a Sentinel. You're just overthinking this mate.

Well jumping all over the place helps me while fighting, so I dunno what you're on about.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 minute ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Well jumping all over the place helps me while fighting, so I dunno what you're on about.

Then how exactly will anything change? That already happens. Not exactly understanding how it'd be OP.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

Then how exactly will anything change? That already happens. Not exactly understanding how it'd be OP.

The shield gate gives me a heads up to get out so instead of surviving a room with low health and actually having earned that by fighting for it, with a little more patience now that feeling doesn't exist anymore. And anyone who says that won't happen is just lying to themselves.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 hour ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

The shield gate gives me a heads up to get out so instead of surviving a room with low health and actually having earned that by fighting for it, with a little more patience now that feeling doesn't exist anymore. And anyone who says that won't happen is just lying to themselves.

Dude, Shield Gates only last for a second or two, and don't recharge instantly. 

[Arithin]

I don't see a problem with it at all.  Experienced players have too much "stuff" for survival to be a huge concern, so shield gating won't change how you plan.  For beginners, the major issue is doing good damage, so shield gating just gives them more flexibility with starter frames and less downs/frustration while they're learning.  A net win for the game's health and beginner retention.

 

For the established players that seem strongly against it.. I've got to question your long term vision of warframe.  Game getting less new players won't improve your lot at all.  And survivability should be the least of your concern if you have a semi extensive mod library, so I'm not sure why you'd care about getting it at all...  We can be undetectable, one shot nearly everything up to stupidly high mob levels, full CC, or just stack mitigation to where only a fraction of the damage actually touches us.  And you can do almost all of that, at the same time, on a large number of frames.  Am I just playing the game wrong so I see no issue?

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

Dude, Shield Gates only last for a second or two, and don't recharge instantly. 

2 seconds, as I've heard planned, is plenty of time to hide behind a box, especially with the layout of a lot of the maps

3 hours ago, Arithin said:

I don't see a problem with it at all.  Experienced players have too much "stuff" for survival to be a huge concern, so shield gating won't change how you plan.  For beginners, the major issue is doing good damage, so shield gating just gives them more flexibility with starter frames and less downs/frustration while they're learning.  A net win for the game's health and beginner retention.

 

For the established players that seem strongly against it.. I've got to question your long term vision of warframe.  Game getting less new players won't improve your lot at all.  And survivability should be the least of your concern if you have a semi extensive mod library, so I'm not sure why you'd care about getting it at all...  We can be undetectable, one shot nearly everything up to stupidly high mob levels, full CC, or just stack mitigation to where only a fraction of the damage actually touches us.  And you can do almost all of that, at the same time, on a large number of frames.  Am I just playing the game wrong so I see no issue?

Because the game tends to favor spawning the crap that does one shot people. I keep referring to it, but ever fought against 5+ Napalms at once? ((This has happened to me and not even as a one time thing, Ceres Invasions have that as a regular thing)) Just the other day I ended up fighting Ambulas, and an Isolator Bursa, and a broken Guardian Eximus Leech Osprey at the same time. As Rhino. I was dead twice in 5 seconds and there was absolutely nothing I could do, not even run. In this game there are only two choices. Either you're alive and fighting, or dead and need to respawn. Maybe it is just me getting $&*^ed over by the RNG this whole time and everyone else gets the easier game experience because I get the hellish scenarios pushed onto me. More than one Napalm at a time is ridiculous.

 

Shield gating is not going to help "endgame" and it won't change anything about the times when you fight a room full of Bursas or Napalms, it'll just take the fun out of normal combat against Lancers and such, since Ballistas and Sniper Crewman are mad inaccurate, even at range. Even MOAs have a hard time hitting you if you move in the slightest, they make up for it by forming firing lines and having rapid fire blasters.

Edited May 5, 2017 by 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4

[DxAdder]

Any Idea if the Shield gate crutch will be optional ?

I would rather NOT use it and receive a bonus.

 

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

1 minute ago, DxAdder said:

Any Idea if the Shield gate crutch will be optional ?

I would rather NOT use it and receive a bonus.

 

Either that or not at all. You know how DE is about these things

[Arithin]

59 minutes ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

2 seconds, as I've heard planned, is plenty of time to hide behind a box, especially with the layout of a lot of the maps

Because the game tends to favor spawning the crap that does one shot people. I keep referring to it, but ever fought against 5+ Napalms at once? ((This has happened to me and not even as a one time thing, Ceres Invasions have that as a regular thing)) Just the other day I ended up fighting Ambulas, and an Isolator Bursa, and a broken Guardian Eximus Leech Osprey at the same time. As Rhino. I was dead twice in 5 seconds and there was absolutely nothing I could do, not even run. In this game there are only two choices. Either you're alive and fighting, or dead and need to respawn. Maybe it is just me getting $&*^ed over by the RNG this whole time and everyone else gets the easier game experience because I get the hellish scenarios pushed onto me. More than one Napalm at a time is ridiculous.

 

Shield gating is not going to help "endgame" and it won't change anything about the times when you fight a room full of Bursas or Napalms, it'll just take the fun out of normal combat against Lancers and such, since Ballistas and Sniper Crewman are mad inaccurate, even at range. Even MOAs have a hard time hitting you if you move in the slightest, they make up for it by forming firing lines and having rapid fire blasters.

I'm more confused than ever.  How in the world are you die'n that quickly, as rhino, to grineer mobs that are around level 30 or lower?  Sortie level corpus mobs can be nasty, but surely not that nasty unless you're doing some sort of "no wf power, no focus, no arcanes" type challenge.  Not calling you out because I like to do silly stuff like that as well, but you can't believe that the devs design around that.  Or should.

Here are some warframe builds from a favorite streamer of mine. http://flareeyes.imgur.com/  Try these out so we can get on the same page survivability wise, and I think we'll see eye to eye on how impactful shield gating actually is for established players.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

6 hours ago, Arithin said:

I'm more confused than ever.  How in the world are you die'n that quickly, as rhino, to grineer mobs that are around level 30 or lower?  Sortie level corpus mobs can be nasty, but surely not that nasty unless you're doing some sort of "no wf power, no focus, no arcanes" type challenge.  Not calling you out because I like to do silly stuff like that as well, but you can't believe that the devs design around that.  Or should.

Here are some warframe builds from a favorite streamer of mine. http://flareeyes.imgur.com/  Try these out so we can get on the same page survivability wise, and I think we'll see eye to eye on how impactful shield gating actually is for established players.

You try fighting 5 Napalms at the same time in a narrow corridor while there's also other Grineer and Eximus units. You melt. Or try fighting an Isolator Bursa, Ambulas, and a Guardian Eximus Leech Osprey at the same time. Even with enough space to move around you die. Leech Ospreys are also broken right now btw, the leeches don't come off from rolling, melee, or dying anymore, at least they didn't for me when I ragequit yesterday, I even made a topic about it. They put out a leech thing once a second, and they stack. Or 3 overlapping Nullifiers on Europa while there's also a blue Bursa spamming its rocket attack. Or the new Raptors alone, those are fun. Ended up cheesing them which took half an hour with a Blast-Status Tigris

And I have a full mod library, no amount of mods or frames can help you in those situations outside of a long duration Ice Chroma, and even then you are at risk of being whittled down. I've played this game long enough to know that there are situations that are just unsurvivable. While rare, they do happen in the Starchart, and it seems they mostly just happen to me because no one else seems to ever talk about it. Even if they are rare just the fact that they can happen is unacceptable, at least to me. Someone mentioned that shield gating would be for new players, but no amount of gating or whatever will keep people playing when things like that in which you have absolutely no hope happen as soon as Mars, even Earth if you play Excavation long enough. Instead of a band-aid, DE just needs to take the time to make enemies fair instead of letting the thing they covered fester and turn into something worse that slowly kills the game from the inside. And I say that as someone who wants to see the game do well. I don't want it easy, but I don't want it to be extremely hard either. I like the level of difficulty it's at right now, it just needs to be fine-tuned. A good foundation can support a good structure on it.

[Notsuper]

Sorry for necroing, but I stumbled upon this and it interested me.

Instead of making it a universal mechanic, why not make it a mod? And instead of a true shield gate with invincibility, why not just massively increase the effectiveness of shields under certain conditions?

My basic idea is to have the mod increase the effectiveness of shields the fuller they are, but only certain portions at a time. However, the damage reduction of the first portion applies to lower portions for a single hit, assuming that hit goes through the first portion of shields and into the lower portions.

As an example, say I have 300 shields. With this mod maxed out, 300-201 is effectively 300 shields instead of 100, 200-101 is effectively 200 shields, and 100 and lower is worth the base value, as usual. Now, if I take a single hit for 500 damage at 300 shields, the damage reduction bleeds into the other portions, and I end up with 300-(500/3)=~133 shields instead of 100 shields if the damage reduction didn't extend (or if I took 500 damage in 10 shots of 50 each), or 200 damage to health under normal circumstances. This way, shields are more effective in general, and can protect against one or two huge hits (provided they aren't too low already), but they don't make anyone invincible. Also, since it's a mod, it comes with a cost and is completely optional.

I can think of two ways to implement this.

1.Divide the shield bar into fixed segments (I used 100 in the example), and give each one a multiplier based on the rank of the mod. This makes high shields a necessity to get any decent effect out of the mod, but potentially enables higher maximum effective shields.

2.Divide the shield bar into percentages, base the multiplier on that (a different multiplier for every 20%, for example). This way, everyone (even Valkyr) can get something out of the mod. Higher shields means slightly more effective shields.

Some things to consider:

The point of this seems to be to protect health, so I suppose it's a given that the damage reduction should extend to health damage, if any is taken. But, should this stack with armor or override it?

Should this affect overshields, or no? If so, should they receive a multiplier of their own, relative to the rest of the shields, or should they just take on the multiplier of the last layer of ordinary shielding?