Thoughts on Shield Gating

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

No. Please just no. Shield gating is going to take half the fun out of the game. Maybe it's just me, but I actually like the sensation of jumping into a crowd of Grineer or Corpus ((Doesn't really mater with Infested since toxic damage bypasses shields)) and almost dying, only to come out victorious or retreat and heal to fight again. Shield gating will pretty much be the equivalent of giving every frame a sort of Iron Skin, with the shield recharge increase mod pretty much dictating how often your personal Iron Skin will come back. With Rapid Resilience, even enemy slash procs are going to be a non-issue. Course I'm probably one of the only people against shield gating, but I'd still like to know what others think.

[CRCGamer]

It is either shield gating or them actually going though and re-balancing the entire damage system and enemy scaling. Guess which one takes less work and is a quicker band-aid solution to the problem? Not to mention an entire damage system re-balance is liable to have over half the players screaming as all the meta forma setups get thrown out the window.

[Kutsus]

Shield gating won't make any difference in the situation ur describing, it'll only be a thing when for example, ur jumping around and suddenly lvl 100 napalm blast in ur general vicinity, but shield gate saves u from getting oneshot.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

2 minutes ago, CRCGamer said:

It is either shield gating or them actually going though and re-balancing the entire damage system and enemy scaling. Guess which one takes less work and is a quicker band-aid solution to the problem? Not to mention an entire damage system re-balance is liable to have over half the players screaming as all the meta forma setups get thrown out the window.

Personally I'd much rather that, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm gonna start betting plat

2 minutes ago, Kutsus said:

Shield gating won't make any difference in the situation ur describing, it'll only be a thing when for example, ur jumping around and suddenly lvl 100 napalm blast in ur general vicinity, but shield gate saves u from getting oneshot.

Even a level 20 Napalm can toast you in less than a minute. Now imagine fighting 4 or more in the same room at the same time when doing an Invasion sided with the Corpus on Ceres. Shield gating will be absolutely useless in some situations, but under normal circumstances just doing everyday star chart alerts and runs just to play it's gonna drive surviveability through the roof and eliminate almost all risk. With the right mods you will pretty much never die. Put the right weapons on that, and pretty much you can face tank everything because there's no risk of death, just hide behind a box while your shields recharge super fast. That'll get boring rather quick.

[Hemmo67]

shield gating normally is when your shield goes down the excess dmg from that hit or bullet is absorbed but the next shots dmg your health

so if u have 2 snipers shoot at your simutaneously u will die cuz first hit, takes away shield 2nd finishes you off

 

now the problem of shield gating is. will corpus get it too?

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

Just now, Hemmo67 said:

shield gating normally is when your shield goes down the excess dmg from that hit or bullet is absorbed but the next shots dmg your health

so if u have 2 snipers shoot at your simutaneously u will die cuz first hit, takes away shield 2nd finishes you off

 

now the problem of shield gating is. will corpus get it too?

I now what shield gating is lol

I'm saying it's going to suck because it removes all risk.

I haven't had anyone yet, but I know someone is going to bring up "endgame". At that level enemies will kill you in two shots instead of one now, congratz, you're still dead :D And Corpus will probably get it too, so Toxin is going to see some more use I'd think

[Hemmo67]

Just now, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

I now what shield gating is lol

I'm saying it's going to suck because it removes all risk.

I haven't had anyone yet, but I know someone is going to bring up "endgame". At that level enemies will kill you in two shots instead of one now, congratz, you're still dead :D And Corpus will probably get it too, so Toxin is going to see some more use I'd think

yeah well if corpus do get it, it's reeeeeeally gona hinder snipers (unless multishot counts as two separate shots)

[EmptyDevil]

Read this thread, in its entirety, before you Doom&Gloom:

 

[EmptyDevil]

1 minute ago, Hemmo67 said:

yeah well if corpus do get it, it's reeeeeeally gona hinder snipers (unless multishot counts as two separate shots)

Corpus aren't getting it.

[(PSN)theelix]

11 minutes ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

No. Please just no. Shield gating is going to take half the fun out of the game. Maybe it's just me, but I actually like the sensation of jumping into a crowd of Grineer or Corpus ((Doesn't really mater with Infested since toxic damage bypasses shields)) and almost dying, only to come out victorious or retreat and heal to fight again. Shield gating will pretty much be the equivalent of giving every frame a sort of Iron Skin, with the shield recharge increase mod pretty much dictating how often your personal Iron Skin will come back. With Rapid Resilience, even enemy slash procs are going to be a non-issue. Course I'm probably one of the only people against shield gating, but I'd still like to know what others think.

Are you sure you know what shield gating is? 

It's essentially worthless against high RoF type enemies, and only works to stop literal one shots, such as snipers. If you face two of these enemies at the same time, it's effectively worthless as the high RoF type enemies remove your shield gate, and the sniper outright kills you, or the sniper removes all of your shield and the high RoF enemy melts you regardless. 

And no, Rapid Resilience doesn't make slash procs a non-issue. But then again I'm basing my argument against fighting enemies that are capable of killing you in less than one second, not a moshpit of level 20 enemies that simply whittle you down. 

2 minutes ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Personally I'd much rather that, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm gonna start betting plat

Even a level 20 Napalm can toast you in less than a minute. Now imagine fighting 4 or more in the same room at the same time when doing an Invasion sided with the Corpus on Ceres. Shield gating will be absolutely useless in some situations, but under normal circumstances just doing everyday star chart alerts and runs just to play it's gonna drive surviveability through the roof and eliminate almost all risk. With the right mods you will pretty much never die. Put the right weapons on that, and pretty much you can face tank everything because there's no risk of death, just hide behind a box while your shields recharge super fast. That'll get boring rather quick.

Except it won't drive survivability through the roof, in fact it doesn't give you any advantage over lower tier content than you already have with every frame in the game that isn't, say, mag vs toxin enemies. There is already no risk of death on anything in the star chart, even 80-100 Kuva missions are just a slightly more niche face roll with any character and a correctly modded Aklato. 

The only time shield gating is going to provide any real survivability is against a massively damaging, single projectile. And that would only work once, and for one second. Then you have to wait both for your shield recharge delay to end, which is 3 seconds unless you use specific abilities (and a correctly made shield gate has a cooldown timer regardless so...) and for your shields to fully recharge. 

In all honesty, we need more than just a shield gate in this game because even a Napalm circumvents a shield gate of this caliber, being that the initial blast does damage and then the first tick of fire damage is instantaneous. 

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said:

Are you sure you know what shield gating is? 

It's essentially worthless against high RoF type enemies, and only works to stop literal one shots, such as snipers. If you face two of these enemies at the same time, it's effectively worthless as the high RoF type enemies remove your shield gate, and the sniper outright kills you, or the sniper removes all of your shield and the high RoF enemy melts you regardless. 

And no, Rapid Resilience doesn't make slash procs a non-issue. But then again I'm basing my argument against fighting enemies that are capable of killing you in less than one second, not a moshpit of level 20 enemies that simply whittle you down. 

Except it won't drive survivability through the roof, in fact it doesn't give you any advantage over lower tier content than you already have with every frame in the game that isn't, say, mag vs toxin enemies. There is already no risk of death on anything in the star chart, even 80-100 Kuva missions are just a slightly more niche face roll with any character and a correctly modded Aklato. 

The only time shield gating is going to provide any real survivability is against a massively damaging, single projectile. And that would only work once, and for one second. Then you have to wait both for your shield recharge delay to end, which is 3 seconds unless you use specific abilities (and a correctly made shield gate has a cooldown timer regardless so...) and for your shields to fully recharge. 

In all honesty, we need more than just a shield gate in this game because even a Napalm circumvents a shield gate of this caliber, being that the initial blast does damage and then the first tick of fire damage is instantaneous. 

It seems you don't believe in the power of the whittle. It exists, it's pretty much the majority of my deaths in the game outside of the rare one-shot by a Nullifier, napalm, or odd Sniper Crewman/ Ballista, simply because I don't enjoy hour long runs of anything. The highest fire rate any enemy outside of the Corpus and their beam weapons has in the game is the Rampart, and that thing tends to put you down rather fast, so I don't think it's wrong to classify it as a one-shot kill if you don't deal with it literally right away. Infestation aren't the only enemies that like to rush you down, MOAs in particular will line up a firing squad

[DerkmeisterPrime]

I don't get how being one shot can be counted as "fun".

I can understand that you want that aspect of risk in the game, but if there is a balista somewhere I can't reach at the moment and I get insta killed from her shot, or get surrounded by Napalms or Scorches, and get murdered instantly. That isn't fun is the slightest.

Plus our Warframes don't scale into late game. Literally the only Warframes that can handle late game, are the ones that either turn invincible or make it so enemies can't even shoot.

I mean, I don't want to have to bring a Trinity or Volt to actually handle the crap loads of scaling. Then I will have to bring high status weapons in Grineer levels cause they basically take 2 damage from anything if you don't bring one.

Shield gating is literally the bare minimum that they can do to fix this. I mean shields pretty much mean nothing in late game as they are taken away instantly, then all you have is an hp pool that doesn't regenerate, unless you have something/someone that can heal.

That was just my opinion on the matter.

[Bibliothekar]

21 minutes ago, DerkmeisterPrime said:

I don't get how being one shot can be counted as "fun".

Those are the same people who consider facing a level 120 Juggernaut with nothing but a melee weapon "challenging". I completely agree with everything you said.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Shields NEED some sort of edge. Health can be reinforced by stacking armor but shields are near worthless as is especially with bypassing procs like slash or toxin. This can be brushed off as a tanky frame, but squishier ones with higher shield values and lower armor its always deadly. Even the companions who instantly restore them can only delay them from being smashed again. It's gotten to the point where you can consider a build bad if it has redirection on.

[Kutsus]

59 minutes ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Even a level 20 Napalm can toast you in less than a minute. Now imagine fighting 4 or more in the same room at the same time when doing an Invasion sided with the Corpus on Ceres. Shield gating will be absolutely useless in some situations, but under normal circumstances just doing everyday star chart alerts and runs just to play it's gonna drive surviveability through the roof and eliminate almost all risk. With the right mods you will pretty much never die. Put the right weapons on that, and pretty much you can face tank everything because there's no risk of death, just hide behind a box while your shields recharge super fast. That'll get boring rather quick.

Tbh i personally dont see how thats any different from now tho? I cant remember the last time i was close to dying in the starchart, with any frame, with any build, all u have to do is not stand still and enemies rarely touch you.
Are we thinking about the same kind of shield gating anyway? A starchart enemy can't rly take all ur shields + a large portion of health in a single shot, so shield gating quite literally wont make a difference since enemies take small portions of ur ehp with each shot but fire alot of shots in general, atleast thats what my understanding is.

[SolarDwagon]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Shields NEED some sort of edge. Health can be reinforced by stacking armor but shields are near worthless as is especially with bypassing procs like slash or toxin. This can be brushed off as a tanky frame, but squishier ones with higher shield values and lower armor its always deadly. Even the companions who instantly restore them can only delay them from being smashed again. It's gotten to the point where you can consider a build bad if it has redirection on.

... I can't argue with your last comment, and that actually made me swear out loud.

Slightly more on topic, as so many people have said, playing badly will still get you killed at any level, but shield gating *might* just stop you from getting randomly killed by bad luck like a bombard rocket that locks onto you from the other side of the room before you even enter, or the shotgun-type enemy who was at point blank range round a blind corner with terrain in the way. But probably not.

[SolarDwagon]

2 minutes ago, Kutsus said:

Tbh i personally dont see how thats any different from now tho? I cant remember the last time i was close to dying in the starchart, with any frame, with any build, all u have to do is not stand still and enemies rarely touch you.
Are we thinking about the same kind of shield gating anyway? A starchart enemy can't rly take all ur shields + a large portion of health in a single shot, so shield gating quite literally wont make a difference since enemies take small portions of ur ehp with each shot but fire alot of shots in general, atleast thats what my understanding is.

Play above level 100. Enjoy never being allowed to live without CC.

In fact, enjoy never being allowed to live because CC missed one enemy and that enemy oneshots you anyway.

Edited April 29, 2017 by SolarDwagon

[ashrah]

shield gate will not change anything..i have in  one game 2milion shield but enemy hit u twice and u are dead..cz dmg is based to take u lets say 80% shield in one hit and dosent matter u have 500 shield or 50.000 u will stil get 2 shoted also all this toxin procs...

[(PSN)robotwars7]

alright, here's my 2 cents:

I play Nioh, and I have just about every safety net on in that game : Tokugawa passive prevents me getting one hit, quick change Scrolls revive me with 30% health on death etc. and I still die a lot because I'm a total scrub at that game. in a game like Nioh though, it's a good thing to have because that game is designed around being difficult, hence why it's often regarded as "Japanese Dark Souls". in Warframe, it just makes things even easier than they are now.

look at Sniper units for example: if you can't get one hit, what's even the point of Ballistas? they shoot you, you get alerted, to their presence, so you take cover and let your shields recharge. they would be unable to kill you, unless they are supported by close range units who rush you whilst you try to recover, but in a one on one, the Ballista has no chance, even if they're level 100, or even level 1000, because their damage counts for nothing. the only way they could kill you is if something else drops your shield first.

and perhaps the most important thing that people are forgetting is that it's not going to be a straight-forward implementation: be honest, do any of you REALLY think DE will give you straight up shield gating, with NO drawbacks, NO changes to enemies to help them against shield gates? do you REALLY think they are going to give without taking away? because they won't: there'll be loopholes, like "elemental effects pass through shield gates". so let's say a Napalm hits you directly with a fireball, you won't get one hit form the impact, but you'll still take DoT from being set on fire. it also does nothing for shield-bypassing attacks, like Slash and Toxin procs.

there's other stuff they could do too: how about "magnetic proc disables shield gating for 5 seconds"? or maybe "shield must fully recharge befiore shield gate reactivates? my point is: don't think for a second that shield-gating is gonna make things better, because with all the elemental damage types in this game, DE will make it so that something beats the shield gate every time. don't be surprised if they decide to tweak enemies in response to shield gating either.

TLDR: if you think Shield gating comes without consequence, think again. the Devs giveth, and they'll taketh away.

[SolarDwagon]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

alright, here's my 2 cents:

I play Nioh, and I have just about every safety net on in that game : Tokugawa passive prevents me getting one hit, quick change Scrolls revive me with 30% health on death etc. and I still die a lot because I'm a total scrub at that game. in a game like Nioh though, it's a good thing to have because that game is designed around being difficult, hence why it's often regarded as "Japanese Dark Souls". in Warframe, it just makes things even easier than they are now.

look at Sniper units for example: if you can't get one hit, what's even the point of Ballistas? they shoot you, you get alerted, to their presence, so you take cover and let your shields recharge. they would be unable to kill you, unless they are supported by close range units who rush you whilst you try to recover, but in a one on one, the Ballista has no chance, even if they're level 100, or even level 1000, because their damage counts for nothing. the only way they could kill you is if something else drops your shield first.

and perhaps the most important thing that people are forgetting is that it's not going to be a straight-forward implementation: be honest, do any of you REALLY think DE will give you straight up shield gating, with NO drawbacks, NO changes to enemies to help them against shield gates? do you REALLY think they are going to give without taking away? because they won't: there'll be loopholes, like "elemental effects pass through shield gates". so let's say a Napalm hits you directly with a fireball, you won't get one hit form the impact, but you'll still take DoT from being set on fire. it also does nothing for shield-bypassing attacks, like Slash and Toxin procs.

there's other stuff they could do too: how about "magnetic proc disables shield gating for 5 seconds"? or maybe "shield must fully recharge befiore shield gate reactivates? my point is: don't think for a second that shield-gating is gonna make things better, because with all the elemental damage types in this game, DE will make it so that something beats the shield gate every time. don't be surprised if they decide to tweak enemies in response to shield gating either.

TLDR: if you think Shield gating comes without consequence, think again. the Devs giveth, and they'll taketh away.

It's going to come "without consequence" because half the stuff you mentioned already exists or will impact shield gating anyway. DoT's? Already exist? Your 1v1 with a ballista? Never happens because there's 10 other things in the room anyway. Seekers with their 2 shot burst that can one hit you anyway? Boom.
Shield gating is a band aid to cover the fact that at high levels, the game become unplayable without full CC.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

14 minutes ago, SolarDwagon said:

It's going to come "without consequence" because half the stuff you mentioned already exists or will impact shield gating anyway. DoT's? Already exist? Your 1v1 with a ballista? Never happens because there's 10 other things in the room anyway. Seekers with their 2 shot burst that can one hit you anyway? Boom.
Shield gating is a band aid to cover the fact that at high levels, the game become unplayable without full CC.

valid points, but for me, I'm mostly against it because it gets rid of the thrill for me: the thrill of a high risk rushing attack with a squishy frame on groups of tougher enemies: you ask a Banshee player "what do you enjoy most about banshee?", and i guarantee they'll say something on the lines of "it's great fun dealing really high amounts of damage while avoiding as many attacks as possible, it makes things interesting!". Shield gating ruins that IMO, it takes away the risk, and with it, the rush.

definitely agree with the Band-Aid fix part though. I just think people expecting this to make the game better are in for a big shock is all.

[Pyrolizer27]

Just curious but does the excess damage through your shields still entirely bypass your armour on health or have they fixed that? If they haven't, I am all for shield gating as at least it would prevent this issue. However, even with this change, shields will still be considered worthless as far as high levels are concerned. Why bother having 900 shields when 300 shields will get one-shot just as fast and leave you with the same amount of health? What they need is for shields to have some sort damage mitigation ability (like armour for health) though to a somewhat lesser extent since they recharge and all. 

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

4 hours ago, DerkmeisterPrime said:

I don't get how being one shot can be counted as "fun".

I can understand that you want that aspect of risk in the game, but if there is a balista somewhere I can't reach at the moment and I get insta killed from her shot, or get surrounded by Napalms or Scorches, and get murdered instantly. That isn't fun is the slightest.

Plus our Warframes don't scale into late game. Literally the only Warframes that can handle late game, are the ones that either turn invincible or make it so enemies can't even shoot.

I mean, I don't want to have to bring a Trinity or Volt to actually handle the crap loads of scaling. Then I will have to bring high status weapons in Grineer levels cause they basically take 2 damage from anything if you don't bring one.

Shield gating is literally the bare minimum that they can do to fix this. I mean shields pretty much mean nothing in late game as they are taken away instantly, then all you have is an hp pool that doesn't regenerate, unless you have something/someone that can heal.

That was just my opinion on the matter.

Being one shot isn't fun, but neither is being two shot. Shield gating won't fix anything at that level of insanity, shield gating reduces all risk for suicidal players like me who rush into a crowd of like 30 Grineer.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Shields NEED some sort of edge. Health can be reinforced by stacking armor but shields are near worthless as is especially with bypassing procs like slash or toxin. This can be brushed off as a tanky frame, but squishier ones with higher shield values and lower armor its always deadly. Even the companions who instantly restore them can only delay them from being smashed again. It's gotten to the point where you can consider a build bad if it has redirection on.

Considering there are only two types of damage that touch health directly and one of them bypasses armor, shields are useful because status chance for enemies doesn't actually increase as level increases, so that lvl 100 Bombard will still only proc blast as much as a lvl 20 Bombard.

3 hours ago, Kutsus said:

Tbh i personally dont see how thats any different from now tho? I cant remember the last time i was close to dying in the starchart, with any frame, with any build, all u have to do is not stand still and enemies rarely touch you.
Are we thinking about the same kind of shield gating anyway? A starchart enemy can't rly take all ur shields + a large portion of health in a single shot, so shield gating quite literally wont make a difference since enemies take small portions of ur ehp with each shot but fire alot of shots in general, atleast thats what my understanding is.

Are we playing the same game? I've had a game recently where I fought a horde of Napalms in the same room. You can read about it in my other topic: Napalm, Napalm Everywhere!! Maybe RNG is just extra cruel to me, because I'm either dead on the floor after being whittled down by 20+ enemies in the same room or things like Napalms, Bursas, Scorches, etc. or slogging through enemies with ease like a knife through hot butter. Hell just the other day the Grustrag Three dunked on me because they had some other Grineer on their side. I underestimated the enemy, and I got S#&$ on.

3 hours ago, ashrah said:

shield gate will not change anything..i have in  one game 2milion shield but enemy hit u twice and u are dead..cz dmg is based to take u lets say 80% shield in one hit and dosent matter u have 500 shield or 50.000 u will stil get 2 shoted also all this toxin procs...

This guy gets it. You effectively turned a one shot on higher levels into a two shot while ruining star chart stuff for unique cases such as mine

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

3 minutes ago, Pyrolizer27 said:

Just curious but does the excess damage through your shields still entirely bypass your armour on health or have they fixed that? If they haven't, I am all for shield gating as at least it would prevent this issue. However, even with this change, shields will still be considered worthless as far as high levels are concerned. Why bother having 900 shields when 300 shields will get one-shot just as fast and leave you with the same amount of health? What they need is for shields to have some sort damage mitigation ability (like armour for health) though to a somewhat lesser extent since they recharge and all. 

Depends on what you're fighting. Finisher damage, i.e Slash procs, always bypass armor, both Corpus and Grineer like to give those out. Toxin damage goes past shields, but actual damage from that is reduced by like 1 point? Toxic Ancients just do a crap load of damage with their breath and most warframes have tiny armor values that don't do much of anything. If I remember correctly, every 100 armor increment effectively increases your health or something like that. Thing is, most Warframes only have armor values in the hundreds

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I'm guessing OP doesn't truly know how badly broken corpus tech is...If you were on Xbone I'd take you on a ride to my hood where there are John Prodman everywhere....shield gating would help with the survivability as well as those ridiculous level 65 napalm eximus units that can one shot my Valkyr p with 4000+ armor lol

Edited April 29, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74