Anti-Cheat Software Is Out Of Control

[Salient]

I've put in 2 support tickets for my gf's account, so far nothing. Its always just me and her playing in private. Fact is DE's anti-cheat nonsense is out of control. Because of it, 2 paying customers who were excited about this game are now pissed. Her words: "I feel like a puppy who was just kicked for no reason" DE: tell whoever codes your anti-cheat to do a better job. Here let me help you: If paying customer, have human being contact user, else ban. I mean come on, what is the % chance of a paying customer cheating?!

[Nazarel]

"I mean come on, what is the % chance of a paying customer cheating?!"

About the same chance as someone of the forums being able to help you.

[Geekomatic]

"I mean come on, what is the % chance of a paying customer cheating?!"

About the same chance as someone of the forums being able to help you.

Math : a cold, heartless female dog.

[Jeraggerjack]

I've put in 2 support tickets for my gf's account, so far nothing. Its always just me and her playing in private. Fact is DE's anti-cheat nonsense is out of control. Because of it, 2 paying customers who were excited about this game are now &!$$ed. Her words: "I feel like a puppy who was just kicked for no reason" DE: tell whoever codes your anti-cheat to do a better job. Here let me help you: If paying customer, have human being contact user, else ban. I mean come on, what is the % chance of a paying customer cheating?!

What process you think triggered the cheat detection system?

I think you know the answer as does just about every person who triggered the cheat detection system.

Take a good look at your task manager. Anything in there that might modify memory addresses for running programs?

Like say... for example... tsearch?

Also, nobody on the forums can help you. Doesn't hurt to share info though so others don't repeat your mistake.

 

Edited July 14, 2013 by Jeraggerjack

[NovusNiveus]

Steve has mentioned on livestream that Grand Masters have been caught cheating before. $200. Gone.

 

I'll take your post in good faith, though, and recommend two things;

 

1. Run Spybot or Malwarebytes to see if anything suspicious is kicking around on her machine that neither of you know about. Ask support if they can tell you exactly what flagged you in their system - the anti-cheat software is blacklist-based, as far as I know, rather than heuristic.

 

2. Police your active processes. Take a look at task manager and see if there's anything in there you don't recognize.

[Salient]

I do IT for a living, these systems are not infected. Unless microsoft security essentials can somehow trigger this. But i have that on my system as well, never ran into this. Its just BS. Annoying BS. And if forums aren't the place for whinging, well... i must be on the wrong internets.

[Midkraft]

I think that case needs too be looked closer into imo

[Salient]

Steve has mentioned on livestream that Grand Masters have been caught cheating before. $200. Gone.

 

More like they were just sitting there and got auto banned for no reason. 

[Jeraggerjack]

I do IT for a living, these systems are not infected. Unless microsoft security essentials can somehow trigger this. But i have that on my system as well, never ran into this. Its just BS. Annoying BS. And if forums aren't the place for whinging, well... i must be on the wrong internets.

If you do IT for a living then you know more than 99% of the members on these forums. If you're just here to vent, then alright. But I did ask you what process was it that you thought triggered the anti cheat system. There's a cause for everything and as an IT professional you should be able to narrow down that cause pretty quickly via process of elimination.

Trainers and cheats usually modify memory addresses, you know this. So was a process running that did that?

I have no idea how their anti cheat detection works, but if its anything like VAC, punkbuster, etc. it looks for certain behaviors. A program doesn't make mistakes. Its programmers do. 

So what's generating these false positives if there are false positives?

Like I said, if you're an IT professional, you would have an idea of the exact cause or close to it. I may not have my MCSE but it doesn't take a pro to figure something like this out.

 

[Nazarel]

Math : a cold, heartless female dog.

:p

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

If you ca re so much about being a paying customer, maybe don't cheat?

[NovusNiveus]

More like they were just sitting there and got auto banned for no reason. 

 

Let's apply Occams Razor; what is more likely? An anti-cheat system caught someone cheating, or the system is throwing up false positives left and right?

 

If you were banned, the software must have detected something. Whether or not a ban is justified in any given case is another argument, but nobody is banned for no reason at all.

 

If I were in this situation, I would be badgering support to find out what exactly triggered their anti-cheat system, and then I would obliterate it. I wouldn't be wasting my time on the forums with people who can't do anything about it.

[NovusNiveus]

I have no idea how their anti cheat detection works, but if its anything like VAC, punkbuster, etc. it looks for certain behaviors. A program doesn't make mistakes. Its programmers do. 

 

I've heard on this forum that the system is blacklist-based, in that it has a specific list of programs to look for, rather than a heuristic system that looks for certain behaviors - in theory such a system would intrinsically throw up less false positives.

Edited July 14, 2013 by UnearthedArcana

[Jeraggerjack]

I've heard on this forum that the system is blacklist-based, in that it has a specific list of programs to look for, rather than a heuristic system that looks for certain behaviors - in theory such a system would intrinsically throw up less false positives.

and they wouldn't release this list to the public because once you know what is blacklisted, you would know what ISN'T blacklisted and use that.

If this is the case, then I'm not quite sure how false positives could be generated at all unless a legitimate program has the same process name as an illegitimate program (svchost.exe comes to mind). So his wife's computer was running something that his wasn't. 

Now if I were compiling a list of programs that I would want blacklisted for my game that are cheats... what would those programs be and are one of those programs on my wife's computer and was it running when it tripped the anti cheat detection? Hmmmm.

Figure if I had his wife's computer in front of me, I'd figure this out in about an hour. Match up trainer and cheat process names and titles against the programs in task manager or what she had running at the time. If she was running something she wasn't supposed to be, I'd know it right away.

Also possible he used his wife's pc and account to "test the fence" and got banhammered. 

Better to presume innocence before guilt though so....

reckon OP already has an algorithm to solve this particular problem. Ball is in his court to execute it and post the results until support works out the ticket. Only helps warn off the rest of the community about whatever program it was that triggered the anti cheat detection system.

[NovusNiveus]

and they wouldn't release this list to the public because once you know what is blacklisted, you would know what ISN'T blacklisted and use that.

If this is the case, then I'm not quite sure how false positives could be generated at all unless a legitimate program has the same process name as an illegitimate program (svchost.exe comes to mind). So his wife's computer was running something that his wasn't. 

Now if I were compiling a list of programs that I would want blacklisted for my game that are cheats... what would those programs be and are one of those programs on my wife's computer and was it running when it tripped the anti cheat detection? Hmmmm.

Figure if I had his wife's computer in front of me, I'd figure this out in about an hour. Match up trainer and cheat process names and titles against the programs in task manager or what she had running at the time. If she was running something she wasn't supposed to be, I'd know it right away.

Also possible he used his wife's pc and account to "test the fence" and got banhammered. 

Better to presume innocence before guilt though so....

reckon OP already has an algorithm to solve this particular problem. Ball is in his court to execute it and post the results until support works out the ticket. Only helps warn off the rest of the community about whatever program it was that triggered the anti cheat detection system.

 

Seems reasonable to me. It would certainly be nice to get a definitive answer one way or the other as to whether or not all these people posting threads claiming to have been banned improperly are telling the truth.

[Jeraggerjack]

Seems reasonable to me. It would certainly be nice to get a definitive answer one way or the other as to whether or not all these people posting threads claiming to have been banned improperly are telling the truth.

Yeah, a post by DE would go a long way towards dispelling any fears about whether their system is generating false positives or not when it comes to commonly used programs.

What I would have done as soon as the launcher said "cheat detected" is take a screenshot right then and there and then I would have brought up my task manager and screenshot the process list. That would be my evidence to support along with the question "which one of these processes is triggering anti cheat detection?"

It's hard for me not to be skeptical when specifics are lacking. I have no patience for vagueness.

[Xylia]

Yeah, a post by DE would go a long way towards dispelling any fears about whether their system is generating false positives or not when it comes to commonly used programs.

What I would have done as soon as the launcher said "cheat detected" is take a screenshot right then and there and then I would have brought up my task manager and screenshot the process list. That would be my evidence to support along with the question "which one of these processes is triggering anti cheat detection?"

It's hard for me not to be skeptical when specifics are lacking. I have no patience for vagueness.

 

The problem with that, though, is it gives Cheaters more room to play around until they find something that DOESN'T trip the cheat detection system.

 

If you're a cheater you'd keep tweaking your cheat script until you DIDN'T see "Cheat Detected" and there you go. Worry-free cheating.

 

OP: You sure your GF doesn't have any sort of memory modifying programs on her computer at all? No Memory Trainers, etc? You don't have to be actually using them for WARFRAME. I've read of people who were using Memory Trainers for Dark Souls getting banned from Warframe because Warframe saw it on their computer and triggered the ban.

 

DE is tired of cheating, rightly so.

 

The playerbase only has itself to blame for being so petty to cheat in an Open Beta that's F2P. I mean seriously now, people.

[Estred]

I do IT for a living, these systems are not infected. Unless microsoft security essentials can somehow trigger this. But i have that on my system as well, never ran into this. Its just BS. Annoying BS. And if forums aren't the place for whinging, well... i must be on the wrong internets.

VMWare can trigger anti-cheat bans, players of Sony Online Entertainment's games have had that issue. I know Virtual Machine is used for IT work frequently so that may do it.

[Salient]

They finally replied and unlocked her account, blaming her hardware for the issue. I might buy that excuse, considering the system is overclocked. Their new anti cheat code must be pretty twitchy, overclockers beware.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Salient

[Xylia]

They finally replied and unlocked her account, blaming her hardware for the issue. I might buy that excuse, considering the system is overclocked. Their new anti cheat code must be pretty twitchy, overclockers beware.

 

That makes sense.

 

Final Fantasy XI did something similar, where Framerate directly affected gameplay. In Warframe, it affects how fast you can shoot. In Final Fantasy XI, attempting to overclock your system would sometimes result in the game exceeding the normal 29.9 FPS cap that game had. Long story short, FFXI capped the framerate at 29.9 because it was an Online game that was available for PS2 and PC. The PS2 had a FPS cap of 29.9. So they had to cap FPS at 29.9 for the PC too, to make sure everybody had a level playing field.

 

Anyways, exceeding 29.9 FPS allowed your character to move faster than it should, which resulted in the ability that people could use it to cheat. And cheat, people did.

 

I forget what exactly causes this, but yes, FFXI had the same problem.

 

I remember booting my computer up one day and I logged in and my character moved as though she had Flee active (a thief job ability) and I was like "Holy crap, what's going on!?"

 

I logged off, closed the game, logged back on, same thing.

 

Then I shut the game down, and cold booted my computer, went back into the game, and it was playing normally.

 

I was later told that if I had not logged out immediately upon discovering that, I could have been suspended for hacking.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Xylia

[Saravind]

you cant run game with cheat software runnign before hand it tells you to turn it off (things liek cheat engine and art money) i know this because i was editing my chars appearance on cube world.... but forgot to shutdown cheat engine before i ran warframe, it prompted me to shutdown which process and thank god it does tell you or it could of resulted in a ban

[Jeraggerjack]

The VMware and Saravind's post is pretty valuable information. 

We also learned that system hardware settings can trigger cheat detection. Friend of mine that also plays the game has his ram overclocked at a stable setting, so I hope he doesn't get hit with it too since he's running a 5k dollar system and the ram has to be overclocked to perform as advertised.

So all in all, the OP may have made this thread to vent, but we learned some really good information from it, so it turned out to be an asset to the community. Awesome.

[DiabolusUrsus]

If overperformance really can trigger the ban system, this information should be widely publicized, ASAP. I'm no computer expert, but isn't there some way to limit performance for specific programs? Why isn't there a system in place for this already?

[Xylia]

If overperformance really can trigger the ban system, this information should be widely publicized, ASAP. I'm no computer expert, but isn't there some way to limit performance for specific programs? Why isn't there a system in place for this already?

 

See, that's what a lot of games (Like the aforementioned Final Fantasy XI) already do.

 

However, such timing relies upon the computer's clock.

 

And SOMETIMES, the timing is off.

 

Sometimes it is because the user is using timing hacks (which people did in FFXI, knowing it'd cause their character to move much faster than they should).

 

Sometimes an odd computer glitch will happen when you boot the computer up (as I described previously in this thread). This is rare (I've only seen this happen once).

 

Simple overclocking should not cause this, but I wouldn't be surprised if OCing computer hardware might make it happen more often? I don't OC any of my stuff so I wouldn't know.

 

My point is, though, is that some games already are coded to limit Framerate/timing/etc.

 

Nearly any game on the Market nowadays does, even.

 

Doesn't matter how awesome your computer is, any game made during the WindowsXP Era and later will still play at their correct speed. However, if you get a game made during the DOS Era, use an Emulator and tell it not to limit itself on Framerate, the game will be speeding along as fast as your computer can execute the code (which would be ridiculously fast for nearly any computer made in modern times).

 

This is why most DOS Emulators out there allow you to specify the timing; most games made back then lacked such code because having grossly overpowered computers was unheard of back then. If anything, you were lucky you could run a game at the speed it was meant to run on in the first place.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Xylia

[THEGREATBANBUGOFU9]

i was running no hack soft ware an no other programs at all i don't even know wtf those are or how to use them Ive only had a pc for about a year but i got banned today for no apparent reason so there is definitely something wrong there are also several post made since release of u9 about players getting banned for no reason i even have a few friends that have had the same problem.

 

DE please look into this, this is by far the most annoying thing ever