why banshee , limbo should be nerfed hard

[P0Pz]

Can we stop to blame him for his opinion?

I do not think banshee needs a nerf. I support banshees at lower/mid lvls with energy 😎

I see it as Damage support for me and all. Simple as it is. Going up waves/levels kill speed by her 4 drops down hard. Then the side is switching, she is now supporting us with buffs or CC or goes melee + naramon what ever.

Limbo is another typ. He is a god damn TrollLord. Sry. I tryed it to ignore i real did..played tons of missions with him...but its enough. I leave the squad at start if i can or in mission when i see a limbo joining.

He is only for squads premade and soloing. But in random puplic games, where everyone got different builds/weapon layouts and gameplay-style...he is a real "game-breaker".

As a mag main,...i use ofc pox and my 2,... if i get the impression he "wants to troll others"... i am his nightmare until i leave.

 

[(PSN)decogold]

25 minutes ago, P0Pz said:

Can we stop to blame him for his opinion?

I do not think banshee needs a nerf. I support banshees at lower/mid lvls with energy 😎

I see it as Damage support for me and all. Simple as it is. Going up waves/levels kill speed by her 4 drops down hard. Then the side is switching, she is now supporting us with buffs or CC or goes melee + naramon what ever.

Limbo is another typ. He is a god damn TrollLord. Sry. I tryed it to ignore i real did..played tons of missions with him...but its enough. I leave the squad at start if i can or in mission when i see a limbo joining.

He is only for squads premade and soloing. But in random puplic games, where everyone got different builds/weapon layouts and gameplay-style...he is a real "game-breaker".

As a mag main,...i use ofc pox and my 2,... if i get the impression he "wants to troll others"... i am his nightmare until i leave.

 

As has been stated numerous times in this thread if you think Limbo of all Warframes is a "troll", you need to start looking at others before you come to this judgement.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

Protip: Play Ember Prime - steal kills from all inferior Banshees and Limbos.

I was in a game the other day where one player praised a Banshee player - his Sonar was allegedly doing "God's Work" - opened up mission progress - me sitting at 70% damage done and most enemies killed - haven't even brought out guns yet, only use WoF at this point (meaning I'm not getting benefit from Sonar) - pretty sure I was doing God's Work, not benshee - but people will give praise in the wrong direction anyway :)  

[P0Pz]

Just now, (PS4)decogold said:

As has been stated numerous times in this thread if you think Limbo of all Warframes is a "troll", you need to start looking at others before you come to this judgement.

Nope i dont have to. Bc..its my impression while playing with a lot Limbo player. I am not a meta fish, swiming in a pool of exp from other players.

I have and make my own conclutions out of " my experiences".

 

Many frames can "influence the gameplay for other players some more or less" some limited to a small range/area or like frost freez all a long time. BUT this is NOTHING you can hit and shot and hit with cast damage each target as u wish. While have a better HS aim since target wont move. Sniper?

Same for Excalibur and his blind? Same for Rhino stomp max range? They are NOT game-breaking. Limbo can and does real trolling. Numerous times said here and other threats.

I have np if you do not agree. But accept that this my own opinion.

[(PSN)decogold]

Just now, P0Pz said:

Nope i dont have to. Bc..its my impression while playing with a lot Limbo player. I am not a meta fish, swiming in a pool of exp from other players.

I have and make my own conclutions out of " my experiences".

 

Many frames can "influence the gameplay for other players some more or less" some limited to a small range/area or like frost freez all a long time. BUT this is NOTHING you can hit and shot and hit with cast damage each target as u wish. While have a better HS aim since target wont move. Sniper?

Same for Excalibur and his blind? Same for Rhino stomp max range? They are NOT game-breaking. Limbo can and does real trolling. Numerous times said here and other threats.

I have np if you do not agree. But accept that this my own opinion.

Yes but you are missing the point, you can't base your assessment purely because "Well, you see i play with a lot of people who play Limbo so this is why" without assessing the full situation.

 

Also, Excalibur with blinding can troll? No... it's actually extremely beneficial to the team - rhino's stop as well. The same goes for Limbo. Cataclysm gives you 1.5 energy every second you are in the rift, you are invulnerable from being sniped from across the map and can easily exit the rift if you so choose. Stasis means you can pick off enemies as if they are nothing without having to worry about being shot at - or simply melee them to death. Stasis has a limit anyways, there are much more "troll" frames in the game, be it Ember, Frost or Hydroid, which is why you can't simply make this judgement call without taking these factors into consideration.

Simply ignoring them and continuing to point at Limbo only shows your ignorance.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)decogold said:

Yes but you are missing the point, you can't base your assessment purely because "Well, you see i play with a lot of people who play Limbo so this is why" without assessing the full situation.

 

Also, Excalibur with blinding can troll? No... it's actually extremely beneficial to the team - rhino's stop as well. The same goes for Limbo. Cataclysm gives you 1.5 energy every second you are in the rift, you are invulnerable from being sniped from across the map and can easily exit the rift if you so choose. Stasis means you can pick off enemies as if they are nothing without having to worry about being shot at - or simply melee them to death. Stasis has a limit anyways, there are much more "troll" frames in the game, be it Ember, Frost or Hydroid, which is why you can't simply make this judgement call without taking these factors into consideration.

Simply ignoring them and continuing to point at Limbo only shows your ignorance.

How does Ember troll you?  Is killing everything before you get there a troll?  Giving you extra fire damage?  World of Fire CC?  What's your basis for calling Ember a troll - there's a fine line between OP Using anecdotal evidence - and you just spewing nonsense.

I def. get where people are coming from.  Limbo is a troll frame, and he can be quite annoying.  If I was going to cite other troll frames I'd list the likes of Vauban, spamming his bounce pads around the pod in defense missions - or Nova players who go to the last room of the mission and place teleporters in the doorway, preventing players from leaving... or Loki's who abuse switch teleport... (I don't know if they can still do this, but they use to Switch Teleport you just for the fun of it.)

The easiest fix to troll limbo would be to remove the stupid not being able to shoot/kill things outside the rift for other players.  That one single change would stop so many frustrated people.  As an Ember player myself - Limbos constantly fk with me by taking away half the battelfield - when I rely on range and damage over extended area.  Be it that I'm already inside the rift - or outside of it - it always has a purely negative impact on my ability to do my job properly.

Nothing Ember can do powerwise is remotely a troll lol.  Something that trolls makes the game unenjoyable for others - Limbo fits that bill perfectly right down to the core of his powers.  

Edited June 2, 2017 by (PS4)lagrue

[P0Pz]

I said already that this frames may stop/freez/blind ...can influence here: enemies wont come to team/players they have now to move to the targets if hidden in rooms ect. But they still can use aaall available power sources to damage the targets. Nothing in need to roll/jump or what ever "to be free again".

Only melee atacks? Whats about my guns i just made 100% as i wanted to enjoy using them but now cant use it  to hit targets? Was there on the mission i joined melee only or cast only?

I understand your point. I am far away from raging dun get me wrong 😊 we r all just players.

His kit is influencing others by setting strict hard limits free to choose by one single player in the group. Offering just 1 way to use a power source.

This is the game-breaker. Did not say he offers nothing. He offers something positive while doing so. But its no reason to hard limit others. Thats the point for me to say ~ #noLimbo.

Edited June 2, 2017 by P0Pz

[(PSN)decogold]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

How does Ember troll you?

See:

12 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

World of Fire CC?

Oh, so this isn't trolling me? The fact that enemies die instantaneously rendering players to do nothing isn't trolling is it not? I guess we should bring back Limbo's pre-cataclysm damage shouldn't we if WOF is not considered "trolling". No of course not - cataclysm used to be considered "trolling" due to it's sheer enemy disposal, that got changed. WOF is in the same category.

16 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Nothing Ember can do powerwise is remotely a troll lol.  Something that trolls makes the game unenjoyable for others - Limbo fits that bill perfectly right down to the core of his powers.  

You are kidding right? Being relegated to doing nothing is unenjoyable - having a single person dominate the entire round is unenjoyable and having no chance to pick off an enemy. If Limbo fits the bill "perfectly" then where does this leave the majority of other "troll" frames? Not suiting the bill? Unlike Limbo's stasis and rift mechanics you can do nothing to stop the likes of a Loki Switch Teleport or an Ember WOF. 

 

19 minutes ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

If I was going to cite other troll frames I'd list the likes of Vauban

I wasn't going to list every single "troll" frame - these are merely examples and it should not be considered that i believe those are the only "troll" frames.

9 minutes ago, P0Pz said:

Whats about my guns i just made 100% as i wanted and now can not use it  to hit targets? Was there on the mission i joined melee only or cast only?

I understand your point. I am far away from raging dun get me wrong 😊 we r all just players.

His kit is influencing others by setting strict hard limits free to choose by one single player in the group. Offering just 1 way to use a power source.

This is the game-breaker. Did not day he offers also something positive while doing so. But its no reason to hard limit others. Thats the point for me to say ~ #noLimbo.

Then it shouldn't be considered an entire dismissal for Limbo as a frame - he is infact extremely useful (like Loki even when he has Switch teleport) with the array of tools at his disposal. Sure, suggest to have the mechanics of bullets/projectiles changed with Stasis but it should not give a judgement of Limbo entirely. It's like me dismissing Ember entirely due to WOF - she is still an extremely useful frame besides this fact.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)decogold said:

See:

Oh, so this isn't trolling me? The fact that enemies die instantaneously rendering players to do nothing isn't trolling is it not? I guess we should bring back Limbo's pre-cataclysm damage shouldn't we if WOF is not considered "trolling". No of course not - cataclysm used to be considered "trolling" due to it's sheer enemy disposal, that got changed. WOF is in the same category.

You are kidding right? Being relegated to doing nothing is unenjoyable - having a single person dominate the entire round is unenjoyable and having no chance to pick off an enemy. If Limbo fits the bill "perfectly" then where does this leave the majority of other "troll" frames? Not suiting the bill? Unlike Limbo's stasis and rift mechanics you can do nothing to stop the likes of a Loki Switch Teleport or an Ember WOF. 

 

I wasn't going to list every single "troll" frame - these are merely examples and it should not be considered that i believe those are the only "troll" frames.

Then it shouldn't be considered an entire dismissal for Limbo as a frame - he is infact extremely useful (like Loki even when he has Switch teleport) with the array of tools at his disposal. Sure, suggest to have the mechanics of bullets/projectiles changed with Stasis but it should not give a judgement of Limbo entirely. It's like me dismissing Ember entirely due to WOF - she is still an extremely useful frame besides this fact.

lol this is l2p problems, not trolling - I've been in games many times where people out-do my Ember, if you can't do it then maybe you just suck - and for what it's worth, anything over level 40 doesn't instantly die lmao, maybe stop playing in low level missions..  

Somebody killing everything versus somebody actively preventing your killing things = totally different..  Nice try kiddo, take a seat.

Edited June 2, 2017 by (PS4)lagrue

[(PSN)decogold]

Just now, (PS4)lagrue said:

lol this are l2p problems - I've been in games many times where people out-do my Ember.  

Somebody killing everything versus somebody actively preventing your killing things = totally different..  Nice try kiddo, take a seat.

No it's not, it still fits into the "troll" category. I've had a glance at your rhetoric, doesn't really help your general consensus but i'll dismiss it. 

Back to the main point, it still fits into the same group. If you think otherwise, then we need to have a rethink on what a "troll" frame is... because merely categorising Limbo into this group without considering what troll frames are renders the point mute.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

My problem with Limbo is not anything to do with the end of mission score. I could be the weakest link in the whole team for all the f***s I do not give, and have been hundreds of times throughout playing Warframe. We have all been there. What I do not like about him, however, is how I am forced to play by his tune on certain Warframes and weapon setups. 

 

Example, we recently had a Grineer Enhanced Elemental Damage (corrosive I believe) Interception. I go in as an Electric Chroma with an Amprex, Punchthrough Aklex as a backup if my Amprex runs out of ammo, and the Redeemer for minor crowd control with blast corrosive to use on my charged attack.

How I play my Chroma, especially on missions where a point has to be defended, is to sety Effigy down once I have enough energy, parkour around so I am not getting wasted in seconds but still get shot enough to top up my energy to feed my pelt that way I can focus on crowd control whilst the pelt defends the terminal. 

Saw the Limbo load up and instantly thought, oh great, but figured if I just take a point furtherest from him it shouldnt be an issue. Nope, was an issue. Not only is he as large range cataclysm but he took the tower directly to the right of me (I got stuck with the middle heavy spawn trap tower). No one wanted to switch so I just tried to make due.

Not even long into the mission I am struggling on keeping enemies contained because I can't properly gain armor/damage. I couldn't move too far from my point to try and build up Vex Armor because my point was constantly in contested state. When I tried shooting enemies with my Amprex, the streams hung in the air because of stasis, once it ended no damage became of those shots at all. Just disappeared. Not sure if its a bug or if shots lost their damage increase because of vex armor ending before stasis did and I didnt get my buff back up in time. It became a matter of trying to find something to hit my armor, rushing back to try and kill as many as possible with the Redeemer. If stasis went down, use my Aklex instead. If not for my Aklex after a point, I would have been render almost entirely useless that whole mission because the way I play was dictated by Limbo. 

As for calling Ember a troll frame becauaw of kill stealing; her damage does not scale well and she doesnt kill that quickly in sorties unless people bring junk built gear. I have out killed Ember before with a bow by just standing in a hallway. The reason people call Limbo a troll frame is he utterly controls what you as a player can ans can not do. Ember can not force you to go melee because your guns bullets are suspended in air. Yes, they will get released and hit their targets (assuming the issue I had with a flight speed weapon was a bug) but this is a game about killing, Limbo quite literally tells you when you can and can not kill. Ember, Excalibur, Rhino, Nezha and more do not have that level of control. Not even Banshee with Squad Quake. You can still run around and handle your business with your playstyle not changing so drastically. I have no issues playing in the same room as these frames, but Limbo? Limbo is just another story altogether.

[P0Pz]

2 hours ago, (PS4)decogold said:

Then it shouldn't be considered an entire dismissal for Limbo as a frame - he is infact extremely useful (like Loki even when he has Switch teleport)

This can be abused to troll 1 single player true. While switching his position. Which is a positioning troll which disorientate shortly the player. But he can still use all power source. After 1sec he is free to move to any target. Its a eyelashes impact troll. 1sec. No hard limits or restrictions following. No power source limiting that loki "orders".

Edit: forget the part with Limbo beeing usefull. I did said in my first post above: 

"He is only for squads premade and soloing. But in random puplic games, where everyone got different builds/weapon layouts and gameplay-style... he is a real gamebreaker"

Which points out or should point out that he offers in specific squad layouts his full potential. But if none can pre-setup for his kit, then we get a frame that 'Disarm' his squat and send all within in his trollcave... total worst case for random pup games.

Quote

with the array of tools at his disposal. Sure, suggest to have the mechanics of bullets/projectiles changed with Stasis but it should not give a judgement of Limbo entirely.

Ofc i can. Bc he interrupts my personal gameplay & takes my management complete away about my power source i wish to use in my layout...so hard that i have to play and use a power source only this 1 player allows me to. This is not a eyelashes impact troll,.. this is a Heavy troll mechanic to ORDER me how i have to play and limit me WHAT i can target and that for a long time. Its setting hard limits to the hole group in a large area. Sometimes hole map. Then i have to do something to "escape" the troll caves. But wait now targets are not atk-able? "@*#$%_^%" NO comparable troll-like ability is that strong to kill the gameplay for all. Thats why i say he is the TrollLord.

Quote

It's like me dismissing Ember entirely due to WOF - she is still an extremely useful frame besides this fact.

WoF is just like Frosts freez effect, besides that its "stunlock" can not trigger all targets to "flame up" AND everyone in team can atack it with ANY source of power while moveing to spots as they wish to. Its a CC & DoT vs Targets. 

Limbo not only CC targets he CC's his own squad. The positives within it doesnt weight it up.

Edited June 2, 2017 by P0Pz

[Vance.Stubbs]

1 hour ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Protip: Play Ember Prime - steal kills from all inferior Banshees and Limbos.

I was in a game the other day where one player praised a Banshee player - his Sonar was allegedly doing "God's Work" - opened up mission progress - me sitting at 70% damage done and most enemies killed - haven't even brought out guns yet, only use WoF at this point (meaning I'm not getting benefit from Sonar) - pretty sure I was doing God's Work, not benshee - but people will give praise in the wrong direction anyway :)  

Problem is not Banshee damage IMO, it's her ability to stunlock entire room of enemies, making even highest level defense and interception mission super easy. Mirage already was nerfed twise with cheese -- first Blind from her ult, second -- simulor combo. Now it's time to bring her to the same level.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

33 minutes ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

Problem is not Banshee damage IMO, it's her ability to stunlock entire room of enemies, making even highest level defense and interception mission super easy. Mirage already was nerfed twise with cheese -- first Blind from her ult, second -- simulor combo. Now it's time to bring her to the same level.

If I am not mistaken, doesnt Sound Quake bypass Nullifer bubbles too? I swear I seen then do the stunlock dance with shield up.

[Vance.Stubbs]

Just now, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

If I am not mistaken, doesnt Sound Quake bypass Nullifer bubbles too? I swear I seen then do the stunlock dance with shield up.

Honestly, I don't know that because I only use silence + sonar build. Would like to know too.

[(PSN)RedWhiskey96]

Go to higher level missions iv never seen a limbo  hang around high level mission i mean like really high level if you hang around low level areas anyone could dominate the room it's all about who's better equipped and built  also you have the option to leave squad find another play with friends or clan it's completely avoidable just like how when players don't know what there doing during a sortie I leave squad find a better bunch of players it doesn't seem right  to throw the nerf hammer at him in this situation. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by (PS4)RedWhiskey96

[(PSN)RedWhiskey96]

I don't agree banshee or limbo should nerfed at true high lvl missions they  doesn't even steal kills. I don't find this post constructive to the warframe community because you don't offer any  valid points it's just complaining about the game you offer no solution either warframe is not ment to be balanced when ever you enter a lobby trying to get kills your are going up against the intellect of other players 

Edited June 2, 2017 by (PS4)RedWhiskey96

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

2 hours ago, (PS4)RedWhiskey96 said:

Go to higher level missions iv never seen a limbo  hang around high level mission i mean like really high level if you hang around low level areas anyone could dominate the room it's all about who's better equipped and built  also you have the option to leave squad find another play with friends or clan it's completely avoidable just like how when players don't know what there doing during a sortie I leave squad find a better bunch of players it doesn't seem right  to throw the nerf hammer at him in this situation. 

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence that is 100% factual. I have seen Limbo plenty of times in what would be considered high level missions from Enhanced Element Sorties to T4 Void missions. Frequently after his rework. Time of day, region loaded into, and just pure luck factor into this. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)RedWhiskey96 said:

I don't agree banshee or limbo should nerfed at true high lvl missions they  doesn't even steal kills. I don't find this post constructive to the warframe community because you don't offer any  valid points it's just complaining about the game you offer no solution either warframe is not ment to be balanced when ever you enter a lobby trying to get kills your are going up against the intellect of other players 

Limbo may not steal kill (which is the dumbest concept ever when there is little to almost no benefit to scoring the lilling blow bar a very select few instances) but he will still dictate how you fight. He needs to be reworked again so his abilities don't just command what the other three people in the group are allowed to do. Chroma is turned pretty much useless with a Limbo around. If you are stuck having to be near Limbo because of mission type, good luck getting armor and damage buff through Vex Armor. Nova's Antimatter drop is rendered useless. Nyx Chaos is rendered useless. Loki Radial Disarm is rendered useless. Mesa's entire kit but her fourth ability and one part of her Shooting Gallery, useless. 

The largest offending problem of Limbo is he requires a competent Tenno and team player to be effective. Most people dropping him in PUBs are solo players and idiots. I was lucky to drop in a mission where two Limbos sat in a radiation room repeatedly nuking each other. I have seen Limbos constantly putting Eximus Sortie enemies under stasis and wonder why their energy is depleting like crazy. He is a high level party forward thinking frame and not many players actually learn how to use him as such. That is a problem.

Banshee's issuse is a lesser extent of Limbo's. What people get annoyed with her is that she stun locks enemies miles away and keeps them locked almost indefinitely. Sometimes it does get annoying on Defense missions to have to go hunting enemies behind doors because of it but thats the reason for her wanted nerf. I dont see the need to nerf her. Her damage isnt that great on Sound Quake in higher level mission and her energy drain to fix that damage is obscene.

[Euphoria]

Just because banshee can clear entire map well, there are downsides of playing banshee such as high energy/s while channeling & corpus nullfier can't be dealt with unless someone pops it and no it's working as intended and it will not be nerfed and if you don't like the way it is just play solo.

[(PSN)RedWhiskey96]

Or find another squad 

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

There are nearly 20 mission types at the moment.

Quake Banshee excels in 2-3 of those. Same with Limbo.

 

It's a matter of right tool for the right job... Nothing wrong with that, nothing to nerf, nothing to see here! Please disperse!

[DSpite]

If you think of Warframe as a Tower Defense clone, then everything we do makes almost perfect sense:

We are supposed to wipe wave after wave, because the "difficulty" is not at the start of the waves, it's in the later, higher waves. We are supposed to feel nearly immortal in most missions, as the main characters are not supposed to die, the "mission failure" is supposed to happen when players make big mistakes and the "objective" gets destroyed or does not get completed properly.

Abilities that wipe levels, when those levels are considered "training levels" are fine, because you are not really supposed to be there. If you have a level 60 character, then why do you insist on fighting level 5 units? You know you will win, so why are you there?

---

If, however, you look primarily to Warframe as a shooter, then that is when everything feels FUBAR, because:

We rarely get killed, when realistically, ANY enemy level SHOULD be a threat to SOME extent, even L5 units should be able to swarm you and kill you, but seriously, you would just hit "4" and everything in a 50 meter radius instantly dies - and yes, maybe they should under most instances - but not in such a casual way that it feels like you are squashing fleas with a Thor's hammer Mjölnir (note the umlat on the "o" please).

We currently all need to sit on level 10 maps with level 60 (I say 60 because Frames with Forma/Reactor/Catalysts/Rivens are basically WAY over power then "just 30") and wipe them OVER and OVER and OVER in order to get Relics in order to run Fissures OVER and OVER and OVER for parts, so why would we NOT want to spend the least time possible in a map? Why would we NOT Sound Quake/World On Fire/<whatever the hell Equinox does> to just get over the boring bits?

 

 

I have no idea what the hell it's trying to be anymore, I'm just here because it gets updates that change things every so often, and I can shoot stuff.

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by DSpite

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

On 1.6.2017 at 1:25 PM, Jangkrik said:

 

By that logic, let's just nerf almost every AoE DPS frames now?

 

It's not like they didn't do this for a VERY long time now. Banshees ult ain't exactly damage centered tho beeing the aoe what it is. Only way to make it effective past wave 2 is by using its augument and neather is this maintainable without energy backup, nor does it keep enemys off approaching you who ain't coming in pure grineer waves....

 

That soundquake isn't gonna cut it against immune ancients or nullifiers...Limbo sure is a different story. Can't be that big of an issue to just bring propper melee weapons into random games. Everyone profits equally from his damage buff and Cc.

 

Wouldn't it be better to just give grineer these tools too though? I mean those guys appearently are behind the tenno developement. Makes little sense to me that they're the only fraction not to have counter measures.

Edited June 4, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

That soundquake isn't gonna cut it against immune ancients or nullifiers...Limbo sure is a different story. Can't be that big of an issue to just bring propper melee weapons into random games. Everyone profits equally from his damage buff and Cc.

So essentially screw what you want to use. If Limbo is around, you better fall in line and use a top tier melee, give up your guns, because Limbo says so. Awesome 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

5 hours ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

So essentially screw what you want to use. If Limbo is around, you better fall in line and use a top tier melee, give up your guns, because Limbo says so. Awesome 

You can also try to defy mechanics if you desire to. You can try playing chroma around A++ Cc, generally play rage builds around overshield spamming frames, bring short ranged stuff to levels that fall on aoe, try status builds/frames with a spamming avalance frost, screw stat requirents, generally mime the petulant child but you shouldn't be frickin suprised when you suck at the missions then. All the examples OP missed make a excellent point, which is that you may hit walls at any time playing random, with nearly every setup you may encounter. Not just around banshee or limbo.

 

Bringing or....ya know, just carrying a frickin propper melee weapon is a small price to pay for SS class stunlock Cc which is among the few (the only one of that magnitude) that does not lock status, all while it thus gives perfect protection irrelevant of your choice of frame, for energy regeneration to still feed nearly any build and a MASSIVE damage boost, wouldn't you say?...but buhu. you have to play melee. Guess what. It makes sense to and you're beein compensated for it. Same can be said about a banshee if you play her smart, even with that mod - best stuffed onto a resonance build so you get both: Awesome support and legit aoe in a reasonable range that's not set to steal kills but to actually kill.

 

It seriously goes over my head why peoole seem to exclusively hate on frames that are actually able to give you something in return, while beein fine with literally any frame that does not.

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108