RHINO AUGMENTS REWORK MAINLY

[Dohako]

Here are a few suggestions of mine for rhino.

 

Iron skin should NOT scale with armor, but instead scale with the enemies' level Equation: enemies' level (1) x 1000 = Ironskin hp(1000) and ironskin can be cast on and off at will.

Also a 3-5 second cool down timer in between cast to provide some vulnerability.

 

Iron Shrapnel augment should be like Chroma's vexing retaliation augment Equation upon losing 20% of Ironskin Hp a blast proc gets activated with a 12m capped range.

 

Piercing Roar augment changed to Nekros' Creeping Terrify Augment, but NO armor reduction just the enemies get sent into a state of panic and -50% movement speed.

 

Reinforcing Stomp augment should have a -50% armor reduction for enemies affected by stomp/stasis and have their armor value completely restored after stomp/stasis.

 

I like the direction of fun and CC with some added utility over synergy. 

[Licitaqua]

4 minutes ago, Dohako said:

Here are a few suggestions of mine for rhino.

 

Iron skin should NOT scale with armor, but instead scale with the enemies' level Equation: enemies' level (1) x 1000 = Ironskin hp(1000) and ironskin can be cast on and off at will.

Also a 3-5 second cool down timer in between cast to provide some vulnerability.

 

Iron Shrapnel augment should be like Chroma's vexing retaliation augment Equation upon losing 20% of Ironskin Hp a blast proc gets activated with a 12m capped range.

 

Piercing Roar augment changed to Nekros' Creeping Terrify Augment, but NO armor reduction just the enemies get sent into a state of panic and -50% movement speed.

 

Reinforcing Stomp augment should have a -50% armor reduction for enemies affected by stomp/stasis and have their armor value completely restored after stomp/stasis.

 

I like the direction of fun and CC with some added utility over synergy. 

first off, iron skin scales with armor as intended else your character would be unfairly op. when enemies hit level 4k+ you would have 100% dmg reduction and iron skin would never begin to drop off. 

iron shrapnel isnt that bad of an augment as it is now, its just a little clunky

piercing roar wouldnt work that way, enemies dont really run away from a warframe screaming at you, but it makes at least a little bit of sense to have a roar that is able to have the sound waves puncture enemies close enough to it

the reinforcing stomp augment wouldnt be used it it reset their armor values after it ended, what you are basically trying to find is a temporary substitute to the single most used arua in the game: corrosive projection, if your squad has 4 of them (or 3 wiht each person using coaction drift) enemies have 100% armor stripped off, and having thier base armor value restored afterwards would completely counteract this. making runs beyond about 50 rotations to be impossible wiht that augment. why add another way to strip armor anyways? there are so many options in the game already just run pox with corrosive on it

[Darkvramp]

leave Rhino alone

[Dohako]

1 minute ago, Licitaqua said:

first off, iron skin scales with armor as intended else your character would be unfairly op. when enemies hit level 4k+ you would have 100% dmg reduction and iron skin would never begin to drop off. 

iron shrapnel isnt that bad of an augment as it is now, its just a little clunky

piercing roar wouldnt work that way, enemies dont really run away from a warframe screaming at you, but it makes at least a little bit of sense to have a roar that is able to have the sound waves puncture enemies close enough to it

the reinforcing stomp augment wouldnt be used it it reset their armor values after it ended, what you are basically trying to find is a temporary substitute to the single most used arua in the game: corrosive projection, if your squad has 4 of them (or 3 wiht each person using coaction drift) enemies have 100% armor stripped off, and having thier base armor value restored afterwards would completely counteract this. making runs beyond about 50 rotations to be impossible wiht that augment. why add another way to strip armor anyways? there are so many options in the game already just run pox with corrosive on it

I'm failing to see your point on any of the augment suggestions.

[Dohako]

2 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

leave Rhino alone

I don't own the game. I'm the wrong person to be telling that to.

[Jakorak]

1 minute ago, Licitaqua said:

the reinforcing stomp augment wouldnt be used it it reset their armor values after it ended, what you are basically trying to find is a temporary substitute to the single most used arua in the game: corrosive projection, if your squad has 4 of them (or 3 wiht each person using coaction drift) enemies have 100% armor stripped off, and having thier base armor value restored afterwards would completely counteract this. making runs beyond about 50 rotations to be impossible wiht that augment. why add another way to strip armor anyways? there are so many options in the game already just run pox with corrosive on it

I guess you never run with pubs ever. Bringing an Ash to a Sortie Assassination with seeking shuriken can really speed up boss kills.

I don't support any of the OP's ideas for changing augments, but armor strip IS useful

[Dohako]

5 minutes ago, Licitaqua said:

piercing roar wouldnt work that way, enemies dont really run away from a warframe screaming at you, but it makes at least a little bit of sense to have a roar that is able to have the sound waves puncture enemies close enough to it

*cough cough valkyr's warcry cough cough*

[Licitaqua]

6 minutes ago, Dohako said:

I'm failing to see your point on any of the augment suggestions.

try learning how a warframe actually functions in game before sugesting random changes you think might work, im not trying to be mean but logically rhino is almost completely balanced rn, and all of the sugestions you are making not only dont make sense, but also break the storyline. a large part of the game is making the storyline fit and function for players who actually find that kind of stuff interesting (like myself) and your sugestions would force de to completely rewrite the story revolving around rhino, and they have removed items from the game for failing to follow it

 

3 minutes ago, Jakorak said:

I guess you never run with pubs ever. Bringing an Ash to a Sortie Assassination with seeking shuriken can really speed up boss kills.

I don't support any of the OP's ideas for changing augments, but armor strip IS useful

i honestly dont see a point for running sorties anymore, i have everything i can possibly get from them and have no use for anything they provide. but im not saying armor strip isnt useful im saying this guys idea of armor strip fails to provide any meaningful upgrade and would actually make corrosive projection worthless. 

 

2 minutes ago, Dohako said:

*cough cough valkyr's warcry cough cough*

valkyr is depicted as a totally insane warframe driven made by medical experimentation, if someone like that started running to you screeming what would you do? that makes some kind of sense, rhino doing that makes none

Edited June 4, 2017 by Licitaqua

[RagingGrizzly]

Didn't we already go through this "discussion" of yours before?

Rhino doesn't need this.

[Dohako]

2 minutes ago, Licitaqua said:

try learning how a warframe actually functions in game before sugesting random changes you think might work, im not trying to be mean but logically rhino is almost completely balanced rn, and all of the sugestions you are making not only dont make sense, but also break the storyline. a large part of the game is making the storyline fit and function for players who actually find that kind of stuff interesting (like myself) and your sugestions would force de to completely rewrite the story revolving around rhino, and they have removed items from the game for failing to follow it

 

i honestly dont see a point for running sorties anymore, i have everything i can possibly get from them and have no use for anything they provide. but im not saying armor strip isnt useful im saying this guys idea of armor strip fails to provide any meaningful upgrade and would actually make coaction drift worthless. 

 

valkyr is depicted as a totally insane warframe driven made by medical experimentation, if someone like that started running to you screeming what would you do? that makes some kind of sense, rhino doing that makes none

I'm still failing to see any of your points and your first statement sounds like a personal problem.

[Dohako]

1 minute ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Didn't we already go through this "discussion" of yours before?

Rhino doesn't need this.

No, you are thinking of someone else.

 

[Licitaqua]

3 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Didn't we already go through this "discussion" of yours before?

Rhino doesn't need this.

if he has please let me know, someone doing this twice is not only making him seem less intelegent for not listening to the other sides argument but also against the forums rules

2 minutes ago, Dohako said:

I'm still failing to see any of your points and your first statement sounds like a personal problem.

if you cant see my arguments after all that im going to just end this there, no point in arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge the other sides arguments and respond to them intelegently. please dont troll the forums

Edited June 4, 2017 by Licitaqua

[RagingGrizzly]

7 minutes ago, Dohako said:

No, you are thinking of someone else.

 

That's possible, my memory isn't that great. But my earlier statement still stands.

[--F--NerevarCM]

Why IRON SKIN should not scale with armor? With your suggestion, Rhino would be immortal at any levels. 1k IS against lvl 1 enemies is ridiculous, majority of the enemies take forever to do 200 damage and if you lose IS, you recast it.

In a lvl 100 sortie, all Rhinos would have 100k IS from the start all the time. My Rhino Prime with 50k can survive for minutes under heavy fire without any problem, you want all Rhinos without mods have the same survivability of a 200% or 300% str Rhino.

Cooldown for Warframes abilities will never be added. And with this change, Ironclad Charge will be useless since IS will not scale of armor, yet you want to change all the other augments except the one this changes would kill.

 

TLDR:

New players will be immortal all the time in any starchart mission

Vet players will be immortal all the time in any sortie or long duration mission

Rhino without mods will have the same Iron Skin of a 200% or even 300% IS Rhino build + recast

Rhino is balanced right now. If you want high strenght for IS or Roar, you lose duration. If you want more CC or duration for Roar or Stomp, you lose strenght

With your change, no one will build for strenght, Rhino will have an OP Iron Skin all the time and players will be free to build for full duration and have CC (Stomp), Damage (Roar) and defense (IS)

Bye Bye Ironclad Charge

 

[Dohako]

4 minutes ago, Licitaqua said:

if you cant see my arguments after all that im going to just end this there, no point in arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge the other sides arguments and respond to them intelegently. please dont troll the forums

I didn't say can't see your arguments. It's pretty clear their yours because you've typed them. I'm trying to understand why you typed them because I don't see any relevance with an augment suggestion effecting a warframe's storyline. Also, ironskin works off mainly damage absorption rather then damage mitigation. "enemies 4k+ lvl would give 100% damage reduction." but thank you for stopping your arguments.

[Dohako]

4 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

That's possible, my memory isn't that great. But my earlier statement still stands.

Ok, next topic.

[Licitaqua]

Just now, Dohako said:

I didn't say can't see your arguments. It's pretty clear their yours because you've typed them. I'm trying to understand why you typed them because I don't see any relevance with an augment suggestion effecting a warframe's storyline. Also, ironskin works off mainly damage absorption rather then damage mitigation. "enemies 4k+ lvl would give 100% damage reduction." but thank you for stopping your arguments.

the developers created the game and gave it a story, when the snipetron failed to follow thier games storyline the item and its orriginal vandal variation were both removed, later whne players complained the devs added a new vandal version that DID follow the story and provided the same 3k master as the old vandal. storyline is important in games like this for the devs to create a game that makes sense, and they have in the past removed items that dont follow the story rather then change it to allow the items to exist. ironskin does work off dmg mitigation as all armor does, the leftover amount just removes a portion of the skin, when you have 100% mitigation the removal never happens, i have tested this. 

[Dohako]

6 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Why IRON SKIN should not scale with armor? With your suggestion, Rhino would be immortal at any levels. 1k IS against lvl 1 enemies is ridiculous, majority of the enemies take forever to do 200 damage and if you lose IS, you recast it.

In a lvl 100 sortie, all Rhinos would have 100k IS from the start all the time. My Rhino Prime with 50k can survive for minutes under heavy fire without any problem, you want all Rhinos without mods have the same survivability of a 200% or 300% str Rhino.

Cooldown for Warframes abilities will never be added. And with this change, Ironclad Charge will be useless since IS will not scale of armor, yet you want to change all the other augments except the one this changes would kill.

 

TLDR:

New players will be immortal all the time in any starchart mission

Vet players will be immortal all the time in any sortie or long duration mission

Rhino without mods will have the same Iron Skin of a 200% or even 300% IS Rhino build + recast

Rhino is balanced right now. If you want high strenght for IS or Roar, you lose duration. If you want more CC or duration for Roar or Stomp, you lose strenght

With your change, no one will build for strenght, Rhino will have an OP Iron Skin all the time and players will be free to build for full duration and have CC (Stomp), Damage (Roar) and defense (IS)

Bye Bye Ironclad Charge

 

Hey, calm down a little bit it's just a game and a few suggestions. Why not instead of 1000 x enemies' lvl but 500? Does that make it better?

We can also come up with another augment for rhino charge as well. 

Maybe like Ash's rising storm augment.

it increases the combo counter and the armor bonus doesn't reset after each cast with a some type of capped like banshee's augment.

[Dohako]

16 minutes ago, Licitaqua said:

the developers created the game and gave it a story, when the snipetron failed to follow thier games storyline the item and its orriginal vandal variation were both removed, later whne players complained the devs added a new vandal version that DID follow the story and provided the same 3k master as the old vandal. storyline is important in games like this for the devs to create a game that makes sense, and they have in the past removed items that dont follow the story rather then change it to allow the items to exist. ironskin does work off dmg mitigation as all armor does, the leftover amount just removes a portion of the skin, when you have 100% mitigation the removal never happens, i have tested this. 

• Rhino hardens his skin to create a reinforcing buffer with 400 / 600 / 800 / 1200 base health. Rhino's total armor multiplied by 250% is also added to the buffer's health. Upon activation, Iron Skin is invulnerable for 1.5 / 2 / 3 / 3 seconds. All incoming damage that is absorbed during the invulnerability period is converted into health and added to the buffer's health. While the Iron Skin is active, Rhino becomes immune to damage and status effects. Iron Skin will expire when the buffer's health is depleted.
  • Base health and armor multiplier are affected by Power Strength.
  • Iron Skin's health uses the following expression when accounting for Power Strength: Modified Health = (Base Health + 2.5 × Rhino's Base Armor × (1 + Base Armor Bonus)) × (1 + Power Strength) + Absorbed Damage. As an example, with a maxed Steel Fiber and Intensify, a rank-3 Iron Skin will have an initial health of (1200 + 2.5 × 190 × 2.1) × 1.3 = 2856.75 before absorbing damage.
  • While active, a health counter becomes visible on the ability icon that tracks Iron Skin's health percentage from 100% to 0%.
  • The amount of health gained from absorbed damage is displayed in the HUD beside Rhino's shield and health indicators while Iron Skin is invulnerable.
  • Self-damage does not contribute to Iron Skin's health gain during the invulnerability period.
  • Invulnerability duration is not affected by Power Duration.
  • Status effect immunity includes crowd-controlling effects such as knockdowns and staggers. Energy drains from Ancient Disruptors, including the small amounts of energy they drain with each melee attack, are resisted. However, Eximus energy drains and Nauseous Crawler disables are not resisted by Iron Skin.
• Iron Skin protects Rhino's health from damage that bypasses shields such as  Toxin damage.
• Allows Rhino's shields to regenerate while active.
• Can be used to both block and pass through Corpus Laser Barriers and Grineer Sensor Bars.
• Blocking with a melee weapon is disabled while Iron Skin is active; the blocking action itself can be performed, but it will not reduce damage taken.
• Using Iron Skin will not stop the health damage taken in the Vampire Challenge of Nightmare Mode. However, Iron Skin will not be drained.
• When the air runs out in Survival, Iron skin will deplete almost immediately and recasting it will cause it to dissipate near instantly.
• Damage reduction from Trinity's Blessing does not apply to Iron Skin.
• For Rhino Prime, Iron Skin's visual effects will take into account the chosen accent color. It is otherwise functionally identical.
• Can be activated while sliding, jumping, forward flipping, wall running, or wall clinging.

 

 

I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ABOUT DAMAGE MITIGATION. PLEASE SEE THE SECTION ABOUT ARMOR IN THE WIKI. 

ONCE AGAIN I'M STILL HAVING TROUBLE SEEING ANY OF YOUR POINTS?

Edited June 4, 2017 by Dohako

[Licitaqua]

the wiki isnt always accurate, technically thats true yet technically its false, once the iron skin reaches a threshhold of about 200k it becomes undestroyable. its based off of your armor yet it also buffs your armor which after 200k armor creates an endless loop that cant destroy the iron skin

[Dohako]

1 minute ago, Licitaqua said:

the wiki isnt always accurate, technically thats true yet technically its false, once the iron skin reaches a threshhold of about 200k it becomes undestroyable. its based off of your armor yet it also buffs your armor which after 200k armor creates an endless loop that cant destroy the iron skin

And you wander why I questioned the validity of your arguments throughout this entire exchanged?... smh

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 minute ago, Dohako said:

Hey, calm down a little bit it's just a game and a few suggestions. Why not instead of 1000 x enemies' lvl but 500? Does that make it better?

We can also come up with another augment for rhino charge as well. 

Maybe like Ash's rising storm augment.

it increases the combo counter and the armor bonus doesn't reset after each cast with a some type of capped like banshee's augment.

Doesn't matter if Ironclad gives you more armor for more time if Rhino will never use it. While he stays with Iron Skin active, armor is never used because he's not taking damage directly on his health and IS will not use amor anymore.

More armor will be useless on a perma IS Rhino. Right now, to be immortal, the Rhino player needs to sacrifice everything for strenght and get a really good Ironclad Charge to be "immortal" and use Iron Shrapnel to be able to recast.

If you can recast and have 50k or 100k IS all the time without use any mods or specialized builds, then you can stay forever with IS active and STILL have a duration or efficiency build. Totally broken and OP.

Even 500 per level is OP. Against lvl 100 enemies, all Rhinos will have acess to a 50k IS. 50k without absorb damage or mods taken into account.

Right now to get 50k you need 200% strenght and a good Ironclad Charge. He's fine the way he is right now.

 

[Dohako]

1 minute ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

Doesn't matter if Ironclad gives you more armor for more time if Rhino will never use it. While he stays with Iron Skin active, armor is never used because he's not taking damage directly on his health and IS will not use amor anymore.

More armor will be useless on a perma IS Rhino. Right now, to be immortal, the Rhino player needs to sacrifice everything for strenght and get a really good Ironclad Charge to be "immortal" and use Iron Shrapnel to be able to recast.

If you can recast and have 50k or 100k IS all the time without use any mods or specialized builds, then you can stay forever with IS active and STILL have a duration or efficiency build. Totally broken and OP.

Even 500 per level is OP. Against lvl 100 enemies, all Rhinos will have acess to a 50k IS. 50k without absorb damage or mods taken into account.

Right now to get 50k you need 200% strenght and a good Ironclad Charge. He's fine the way he is right now.

 

And you don't see that as a problem? My main focus is on 3 things Fun, CC, and Utility. Not everything centered around ironskin.

 

"Totally broken and OP?" That is a large(if not the largest) over exaggeration a player can produce without any reasonable evidence to backed that statement.

I'm waiting...

[Jakorak]

1 hour ago, Licitaqua said:

but also break the storyline. a large part of the game is making the storyline fit and function for players who actually find that kind of stuff interesting (like myself) and your sugestions would force de to completely rewrite the story revolving around rhino, and they have removed items from the game for failing to follow it

 

valkyr is depicted as a totally insane warframe driven made by medical experimentation, if someone like that started running to you screeming what would you do? that makes some kind of sense, rhino doing that makes none

um. wat? also did you even read rhino's codex entry? dude's scary as fuuuck

1 hour ago, Licitaqua said:

 but im not saying armor strip isnt useful im saying this guys idea of armor strip fails to provide any meaningful upgrade and would actually make corrosive projection worthless. 
 

 

? This is basically the same way seeking shuriken works. Percentage of armor removed for a duration of time affected by both power strength and duration. errrr hmmm you might be meaning by how widespread an effect it is, but then that's the same as how Frost's Avalanche works... nope you're not really winning any points here..

 

[--F--NerevarCM]

5 minutes ago, Dohako said:

And you don't see that as a problem? My main focus is on 3 things Fun, CC, and Utility. Not everything centered around ironskin.

 

"Totally broken and OP?" That is a large(if not the largest) over exaggeration a player can produce without any reasonable evidence to backed that statement.

I'm waiting...

Evidence? If you play Rhino right now you can find your evidence. If you need evidence to understand something that any Rhino player knows, then you don't play with Rhino at all. At 100k IS against a moving Rhino, it can take minutes to lvl 100 enemies remove all IS life

1- To get another 100k, a Rhino player needs to cast Ironclad and hit enough enemies to get a good buff, and they can be killed during this time making full str Rhinos balanced. If you want to recast you need to waste another mod slot.

2- To get 200% or 300% str to reach this numbers, Rhino loses a lot of efficiency and duration because of Transient Fortitude and Blind Rage

3- You need a lot of enemies around you shooting you and in a straight line to get a really good buff. High risk, High reward

4- If you do everything right and stay alive, then it rewards you with 300k or more IS and you can really be immortal. If you lose this 300k in a nullifier buble, takes a lot of skill to get that 300k again.

Now with your "suggestion":

1- Rhino don't need to waste slots with Ironclad Charge or even armor mods to get 100k IS. Against lvl 100 enemies you will get 100k on the first cast. Since you don't need Iron Shrapnel to recast, you have another free slot. If your IS is nearly ending, you don't have any vulnerable gap, you just recast and get back at 100k health maintaning invulnerability.

2- You don't need to use Transient Fortitude or Blind Rage, that means you don't have drawbacks to have huge IS numbers. You can have a efficiency build + IS and get 100k IS all the time for 25 energy or even less. With Zenurik or even Energy Siphon, you have infinite IS no problem.

3- You can get 100k IS alone without any enemies around. No Risk, high reward. Start the mission, press 2, bam! 100k IS.

4- You don't need tactics or know how to play Rhino. Just press 2 and be immortal. If your IS have 1% health, press 2 and stay immortal. If you enter a nullifier buble, kill the nullifier and recast IS, and you get back at 100k IS again.

 

TL:DR = OP

 

If you need videos or images to find these problems in your suggestions. Then please, play more with Rhino instead of giving suggestions. All these problems are easily found if you play enough time with Rhino and know how Rhino works and how players use him.