So, I Guess New Players Are Screwed Huh?

[Sixty5]

Your title suggests that anyone starting now will never be able to attain the same level of power as ANYONE currently playing.

 

I call bull.

 

Sure the Snipetron vandal is good, and sure there is a ultra rare mod out there.

 

So?

 

Last time I checked the Hek was still stupidly powerful, and its not as if shotgun mods are hard to max out.

Last time I checked pretty much any AOE power can dish out more destruction than a gun could in the same time.

Last time I checked weapon still had limited mod points, that force you to either invest forma or make sacrifices for your build. 

Last time I checked, this game was play to win. IE the more time you spend on it, the better stuff you get.

 

Nothing integral to this game is exclusive, and ALL of the "best" gear in the game can be obtained through direct play.

 

Cry some more.

[AberforthBrixby]

Firstly, it only works on sniper rifles. It's like thunderbolt for bows. It's not that great.

 

Secondly, its a game, a PVE one at that, and it's not a competition. Being able to do slightly less DPS in a game where we are already critically overpowered and nothing is a real challenge isn't a huge loss.

 

Thirdly, if the spoils of a competition aren't exclusive to those who win it, what is the point in taking part? Nobody goes around saying that gold medals should be awarded to everyone that took part in the olympics because they tried hard too rather than just the people who got first place.

 

Stop being such an entitled gamer already, christ.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Firstly, it only works on sniper rifles. It's like thunderbolt for bows. It's not that great.

 

Secondly, its a game, a PVE one at that, and it's not a competition. Being able to do slightly less DPS in a game where we are already critically overpowered and nothing is a real challenge isn't a huge loss.

 

Thirdly, if the spoils of a competition aren't exclusive to those who win it, what is the point in taking part? Nobody goes around saying that gold medals should be awarded to everyone that took part in the olympics because they tried hard too rather than just the people who got first place.

 

Stop being such an entitled gamer already, christ.

Gold medals don't actually make someone faster IRL and potentially give them an advantage in future events that reward more medals. They're mostly just cosmetic rewards for a job well done...which is what DE should have given out to the top 100 players, not something that had an impact on the gameplay.

As for being "entitled" I don't see what's so entitled about wanting the game to be fair. As opposed to you know, wanting to lord an exclusive gameplay altering tool over everyone else. Doubly so if you want to say its not great or that its useless when there are people who would actually use it.

[AberforthBrixby]

Literally no one said this. People are saying that DE shouldn't make things that affect gameplay into super limited rewards. But I guess reading a three page topic is hard...

How does one single, average tier mod affect gameplay. With or without the mod, you still shoot things and they still die so the gameplay is the exact same.

 

The gameplay doesn't change at all between having the highest possible DPS on a sniper rifle and having a slightly lower one.

 

If this were PVP it MIGHT be different but why is this an issue in a PVE game? Does that extra half second shaved off your average kill time really bother you? At the end of game stats screen, do you seethe with rage seeing that a teammate got more kills than you did?

 

It's hard to believe that with all of the bugs still present and the overall lack of content, that this is the sort of thing being griped about.

[AberforthBrixby]

Gold medals don't actually make someone faster IRL and potentially give them an advantage in future events that reward more medals. They're mostly just cosmetic rewards for a job well done...which is what DE should have given out to the top 100 players, not something that had an impact on the gameplay.

As for being "entitled" I don't see what's so entitled about wanting the game to be fair. As opposed to you know, wanting to lord an exclusive gameplay altering tool over everyone else. Doubly so if you want to say its not great or that its useless when there are people who would actually use it.

Gold medals make sponsorships/funding and all sorts of corporate media far easier to attain than if you don't have them. They are also quite valuable financially.

 

The game is fair. Who are you at a disadvantage AGAINST with or without this mod? All the other players are on the same team as you are.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Gold medals make sponsorships/funding and all sorts of corporate media far easier to attain than if you don't have them. They are also quite valuable financially.

 

The game is fair. Who are you at a disadvantage AGAINST with or without this mod? All the other players are on the same team as you are.

It wasn't fair at all. 100 players out of 2 million. That is an abysmally tiny fraction, most people were out of the running for it by the time they logged in. In what world is this fair?

 

As for your first post: It affects other people in that everyone else beyond those 100 people (most of which apparently don't even want to use the mod, so thanks DE!) can't use every build they want with their sniper rifle. The game may not always be a competition but as someone mentioned before, it would have been fun to stack as many damage mods as possible and play bolt-action style, efficiency be damned. Instead we get bootleg chamber and get to suck.

 

And hell, if there's another one-shot kill event this mod gives people an advantage over the masses who didn't get it because now your first shot can do 100% more damage.

 

But keep on strawmanning that people are just upset they didn't/can't top charts. That isn't and will never be the issue.

[mhigh]

Or it was just a quick post to appease the angry community because I'm sure we all know DE would totally have put thunderbolt and other mods in the drop pool if the dataminers hadn't called them on their S#&$.

 

I won't disagree, but they listened. They made a mistake, I don't even think this could be called a mistake, and I don't see any further reason to discuss it. They addressed it in livestream #10 about fixing the loot tables as well as tiered event rewards and their future implementation. They never said that it wouldn't be obtainable again, just that it was the first time being introduced. They gave an answer to the communities concerns and I don't see why anyone would be particularly angry anyways. I was anxious to hear further deliberation but I wasn't going to be angry at a group of people trying their best. Stop being a flamer.

[AberforthBrixby]

It wasn't fair at all. 100 players out of 2 million. That is an abysmally tiny fraction, most people were out of the running for it by the time they logged in. In what world is this fair?

 

As for your first post: It affects other people in that everyone else beyond those 100 people (most of which apparently don't even want to use the mod, so thanks DE!) can't use every build they want with their sniper rifle. The game may not always be a competition but as someone mentioned before, it would have been fun to stack as many damage mods as possible and play bolt-action style, efficiency be damned. Instead we get bootleg chamber and get to suck.

 

And hell, if there's another one-shot kill event this mod gives people an advantage over the masses who didn't get it because now your first shot can do 100% more damage.

 

But keep on strawmanning that people are just upset they didn't/can't top charts. That isn't and will never be the issue.

 

"keep on strawmanning that blah blah"

 

Excuse me? Don't use buzz words and phrases you don't understand. Nowhere in my arguments do I imply that anyone (except perhaps you) is upset that they didn't get in to the top 100. That is basically saying that I'm telling people to be more competitive and get stronger when what I actually said that the game is not competition and people are already too overpowered. Saying that competition rewards should be exclusive is not telling people to stop whining about not winning, I don't care who won or who lost.

 

Sigh.

 

That doesn't seem unfair to me, you have to separate the wheat from the chaff somehow. The rewards that are the most difficult to obtain are the ones that are the most fun to work for. If you fail, you fail. Fact of life.

 

Furthermore, a max snipetron already one hits practically everything up to a certain level in Xini, and that's without the exclusive mod. Saying that it could offer an advantage is a total non-issue when we are so souped up that people can take mods off and still one hit everything.

 

In a game where enemies aren't even a threat, why are you complaining about not having the opportunity to be even stronger? When you already one hit enemies, what difference does it make?

[_Bilko_]

Literally no one said this. People are saying that DE shouldn't make things that affect gameplay into super limited rewards. But I guess reading a three page topic is hard...

Matter of fact i did read the entire thread, I still don't get what the complaint is.

What the OP is saying translates to me as "This Mod is INTEGRAL to the game and it should not be exclusive"

I say thats just stupid, People have played the game thus far and not had any problems with this mod affecting their gameplay.

I know this is over-used but to me it sounds like you just want everyone to have it or no-one to have it and both would take away the achievements of those who earned it.

This is just silly, get off your soap-box and go take a nap.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

"keep on strawmanning that blah blah"

 

Excuse me? Don't use buzz words and phrases you don't understand. Nowhere in my arguments do I imply that anyone (except perhaps you) is upset that they didn't get in to the top 100. That is basically saying that I'm telling people to be more competitive and get stronger when what I actually said that the game is not competition and people are already too overpowered. Saying that competition rewards should be exclusive is not telling people to stop whining about not winning, I don't care who won or who lost.

 

Sigh.

 

That doesn't seem unfair to me, you have to separate the wheat from the chaff somehow. The rewards that are the most difficult to obtain are the ones that are the most fun to work for. If you fail, you fail. Fact of life.

 

Furthermore, a max snipetron already one hits practically everything up to a certain level in Xini, and that's without the exclusive mod. Saying that it could offer an advantage is a total non-issue when we are so souped up that people can take mods off and still one hit everything.

 

In a game where enemies aren't even a threat, why are you complaining about not having the opportunity to be even stronger? When you already one hit enemies, what difference does it make?

Its not a buzzword at all. You've said it twice, once saying I was upset that I wasn't topping kill charts and once implying someone was upset they didn't make the top 100. That is a strawman argument because it does nothing to actually address the points made and instead you spin your own strawman to shoot at.

 

But I digress, the point of all this is that it's the only mod you can't get. Everyone has a fair shot at every other mod, and it's just terrible business sense to make something as crucial to gameplay as a mod exclusive to such a tiny fraction of people. As even the OP said: guns like the vandal didn't matter a whole lot because thanks to mods and forma you can even the difference out, and even then chances are a new gun that's stronger will come out soon. But unless they overhaul the mod system once more, a limited mod messes with everyone but the 100 who got it.

 

 

 

Matter of fact i did read the entire thread, I still don't get what the complaint is.

What the OP is saying translates to me as "This Mod is INTEGRAL to the game and it should not be exclusive"

I say thats just stupid, People have played the game thus far and not had any problems with this mod affecting their gameplay.

I know this is over-used but to me it sounds like you just want everyone to have it or no-one to have it and both would take away the achievements of those who earned it.

This is just silly, get off your soap-box and go take a nap.

I don't think anyone wants you to get no reward for being the top 100. They just don't want people to get a mod for it. I can almost guarantee that if the reward had been something cosmetic like an exclusive sentinal skin then there wouldn't be any rage over it. But instead, DE decided to make a limited mod. Mods being one of, if not the, most important aspects of this game. Its thanks to mods that more than half the weapons in this game are even usable and not everyone just uses the hek or gorgon because they do the most damage or whatever.

Edited July 20, 2013 by DAWGUNITALPHA

[_Bilko_]

Its not a buzzword at all. You've said it twice, once saying I was upset that I wasn't topping kill charts and once implying someone was upset they didn't make the top 100. That is a strawman argument because it does nothing to actually address the points made and instead you spin your own strawman to shoot at.

 

But I digress, the point of all this is that it's the only mod you can't get. Everyone has a fair shot at every other mod, and it's just terrible business sense to make something as crucial to gameplay as a mod exclusive to such a tiny fraction of people. As even the OP said: guns like the vandal didn't matter a whole lot because thanks to mods and forma you can even the difference out, and even then chances are a new gun that's stronger will come out soon. But unless they overhaul the mod system once more, a limited mod messes with everyone but the 100 who got it.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone wants you to get no reward for being the top 100. They just don't want people to get a mod for it. I can almost guarantee that if the reward had been something cosmetic like an exclusive sentinal skin then there wouldn't be any rage over it. But instead, DE decided to make a limited mod. Mods being one of, if not the, most important aspects of this game. Its thanks to mods that more than half the weapons in this game are even usable and not everyone just uses the hek or gorgon because they do the most damage or whatever.

Strange this is i don't remember any flame threads about the mod rewards from the Fusion Moa event. 

I see your point but if it were purely cosmetic then most people wouldn't even try for it, something that offers them the chance to make their weapon more powerful is a great attraction.

I don't have any problem with people getting mods for a job well done.

[AberforthBrixby]

Its not a buzzword at all. You've said it twice, once saying I was upset that I wasn't topping kill charts and once implying someone was upset they didn't make the top 100. That is a strawman argument because it does nothing to actually address the points made and instead you spin your own strawman to shoot at.

 

And I'm asking you, where in my arguments did I make these points? Where did I mention anything about anyone being upset about not topping kill charts? Where is this "strawman"

 

A summary of my first post:

 

-mod only works on sniper rifles and therefore gameplay change/balance is hardly even tangible.

-Game is PVE and therefore DPS is not integral as a result.

-Giving out exclusive rewards is fair in a game since it's considered fair in real life, therefore your point about lack of fairness is moot.

 

A summary of my second post:

 

-Core gameplay is the same with or without the mod

-Game balance is not affected by DPS because it is not competition oriented (PVP)

-This shouldn't even be a legitimate concern based on the other staggering problems within the game.

 

A summary of my third post:

 

-Remaking the point about exclusive rewards being considered fair game due to real life prevalence

-Everyone is on the same team

 

So please, point out where I argued about kill charts and used that as a strawman against you. I'm patient.

[hunterframe]

Could someone please upload footage of the Primed Chamber (the event mod) in action.

 

if possible:

  -Try to play it like a WW2 bolt-action rifle. 

-- Shoot, reload. Shoot, reload. Shoot, reload. etc.

 

if not possible:

 then I'd just like to hear and see it work.

I'll be paying attention to reload animations, muzzle flash, projectile, sounds, etc.

searched youtube, only found one underwhelming video highlighting damage numbers. You guys will find it interesting though

 

click spoiler for more detail and link

guy pulled two 'split-chambered' hits with one 'primed chamber' round;

each hit had added damage;

 

11989+11989 = 23978 "initial" damage

  7806+ 7806  = 15612 bonus damage

               total = 39590

 

mods used (according to uploader)

multishot(8)+serration(14)+fire element(11)+crit chance(9)+crit damage(9)+primed chamber(7)

 

the video (13seconds long)

 

 

downloaded it, slowed it down in VLC to get the numbers

 

impressive numbers, but his video doesn't showcase reload timing, and expending 'primed chamber' rounds continuously.

 +% reload mods aren't a concern, just get a video out here.

[RagDollRat]

Exclusive? Who cares not like their is real pvp

[RagDollRat]

actualy yaknow what your right were all special and should get everything for even killing 1 drone, :l

 

sorry i didnt get 1 but i still feel those people deserve it for their hard work to be in the top 100

[Mainabi]

can I also give my 2 cents please?

 

I actually think the problems are the events itself, it doesn't promote coop play

all the top 100 were solo players in solo rooms, rushing through, that has nothing to do with coop, the core of Warframe, also 65h nonstop grinding isn't a good event, nor even fair. event's should be fun and challenging to get into top 100,

 

but it wasn't

never was

not a single event till now was fun nor challenging, just stupid grinding

 

(except video events!)

 

giving the prize to the top hardcore grinders isn't a good idea!

[Azraill]

This has been discussed to death and I've said all I care to in the many other posts (like how I'd prefer a cosmetic walk animation toggle for the top 100 winners, something like dead space and just throw the stupid mod in the loot pool), but I just want to come in and say this in regards to "It's unfair to new players."

 

/Delete Snipertron Vandal and Braton Vandal then. 

 

Oh.. wait.. this is a cooperative game, where nobody really has an advantage of another person, they just have an advantage against NPC's. /sigh.

[Lazer]

searched youtube, only found one underwhelming video highlighting damage numbers. You guys will find it interesting though

 

click spoiler for more detail and link

guy pulled two 'split-chambered' hits with one 'primed chamber' round;

each hit had added damage;

 

11989+11989 = 23978 "initial" damage

  7806+ 7806  = 15612 bonus damage

               total = 39590

 

mods used (according to uploader)

multishot(8)+serration(14)+fire element(11)+crit chance(9)+crit damage(9)+primed chamber(7)

 

the video (13seconds long)

 

 

downloaded it, slowed it down in VLC to get the numbers

 

impressive numbers, but his video doesn't showcase reload timing, and expending 'primed chamber' rounds continuously.

 +% reload mods aren't a concern, just get a video out here.

 

I like how people are ignoring the fact hes using a Banshees Sonar, which gives +500% dmg to the highlighted area. 

[demonaii]

The Snipetron Vandal and Primed Chamber event was a pretty cool idea, and pretty fun too. Snipetron Vandal is really nice and was pretty easy to earn during the event, but isn't overpowered (there is a sniper with 2x its base dmg in the dojo weapons) so making it exclusive isn't too big of a deal, still would have preferred a skin to prevent community backlash.

 

Disclaimer: The following is said under the assumption that Primed Chamber is exclusive. However i have seen quite a few people who have claimed that they talked with someone from DE and that DE has said it is exclusive. However if this proves to be false, disregard the following. (it seems likely though, from the existence of Charged Chamber).

 

Though it is too bad that Primed Chamber was only given to the top 100 during the event, but at least us people that didn't have spare time to burn during the event can get it lat-...

 

Wait, what? People are saying that DE has said that Primed Chamber is exclusive? Not only that, but it is incredibly powerful and vastly superior in every single way to the version we can get called Charged Chamber and both versions can be stacked?

 

For reference Primed Chamber at max level is 100% bonus damage @ 7 energy cost, whereas Charged Chamber is 40% bonus damage @ 9 energy cost.

 

 

 

So not only is this a kick in the teeth to anyone not in the top100 (especially those that put in a massive amount of work to reach the top100 but fell short)... What the hell are new players supposed to do? They can never get this exclusive mod, no matter how much effort they put in, no how much they may come to love the game, no matter how much money they spend... they can never ever have the highest DPS with any weapon.

 

They can never have Primed Chamber, they can never do the highest damage, they are gimped from the outset because they didn't take part in this event and come within the top 100.

 

 

Really DE?

 

Oh god its Frost Prime Event all over again... (the shooting themselves in the foot part).

 

WHY DO YOU INSIST ON MAKING THINGS INTEGRAL TO THE GAMEPLAY OF YOUR GAME EXCLUSIVE?

 

People would be happy with exclusive skins! Things that have no effect on gameplay, but shows off the results of your hard work!

 

Exclusive rewards to events are good things! But making those exclusive rewards really integral things to your game is incredibly silly.

 

So to anyone who likes warframe: If you want to be the very best that no-one ever was, i hope you placed in the top100 during the aforementioned event, or your never gonna be the best, sorry.

 

If you started loving warframe after the event? Already boned.

1+

[mhigh]

I'm not understanding why this thread is still going on. DE Rebecca made a statement in this thread, it will be available in a later event. She wouldn't have said that based on personal interjection and beliefs. I'm sure she talked it out with the team before a statement was released because it took quite a bit for an official DE employee to say something on the topic. The mod is not exclusive to THIS event, but it may be EVENT exclusive, stating that it will be released periodically over time through TIERED events which means you get what you work for and no one is left out. They addressed the issue and are working on fixing it. Even Community Moderators have been participating in flame battles and it's baffling as to why this community is so aggressive when you know all you have to do is politely state concerns about the game and ensure it is heard by DE.

[hunterframe]

guy pulled two 'split-chambered' hits with one 'primed chamber' round;

each hit had added damage; the shot landed on a sonar-amplified weakspot (banshee ability);

 

11989+11989 = 23978 "initial" damage

  7806+ 7806  = 15612 bonus damage

               total = 39590

 

weapon mods used (according to uploader)

multishot(8)+serration(14)+fire element(11)+crit chance(9)+crit damage(9)+primed chamber(7)

warframe mods used (unverified by uploader)

focus(unknown)+unknown(unknown)+...

 

...  ...

 

... this video doesn't showcase reload timing, and expending 'primed chamber' rounds continuously.

 +% reload mods aren't a concern, just get a video out here.

 

I like how people are ignoring the fact hes using a Banshees Sonar, which gives +500% dmg to the highlighted area. 

better? (changes shown with underline and bold)

[Namacyst]

I'm not understanding why this thread is still going on. DE Rebecca made a statement in this thread, it will be available in a later event. She wouldn't have said that based on personal interjection and beliefs. I'm sure she talked it out with the team before a statement was released because it took quite a bit for an official DE employee to say something on the topic. The mod is not exclusive to THIS event, but it may be EVENT exclusive, stating that it will be released periodically over time through TIERED events which means you get what you work for and no one is left out. They addressed the issue and are working on fixing it. Even Community Moderators have been participating in flame battles and it's baffling as to why this community is so aggressive when you know all you have to do is politely state concerns about the game and ensure it is heard by DE.

 

As long as they don't make Primed Chamber farmable for everyone or buff charged chamber to a reasonable amount (like 80% on max level) threads like this will not only go on but new threads about that matter will pop up on a weekly basis because handing out such a mod for only 100 player and then throwing a piece of crap like charged chamber into the loot table is nothing the community likes much. 40% +2 energy vs. 100% is ....just bad.

[Traithan]

Your title suggests that anyone starting now will never be able to attain the same level of power as ANYONE currently playing.

 

I call bull.

 

Sure the Snipetron vandal is good, and sure there is a ultra rare mod out there.

 

So?

 

Last time I checked the Hek was still stupidly powerful, and its not as if shotgun mods are hard to max out.

Last time I checked pretty much any AOE power can dish out more destruction than a gun could in the same time.

Last time I checked weapon still had limited mod points, that force you to either invest forma or make sacrifices for your build. 

Last time I checked, this game was play to win. IE the more time you spend on it, the better stuff you get.

 

Nothing integral to this game is exclusive, and ALL of the "best" gear in the game can be obtained through direct play.

 

Its a slippery slope though.  Just imagine if legendary weapons in WoW were only able to be obtained by the first 50 guilds that killed the boss.  That's it.  No one else.  That's essentially what this path is leading us to, and its a terrible implementation of a reward system.  All the vandal weapons out there that can't be received anymore.  At one time the Braton Vandal was considered the best weapon in the game.  Who says they don't do that again, and leave it that way?  Who says the next mod isn't a better version of Serration, and its only for the top 100 of some time-grindy event in the future.  So the game they are trying to make harder gets harder for everyone except people who get special perks for having zero life outside of Warframe. 

 

Did they earn it?  Sure.  They completely earned it. 

 

The better question is:  Is it good game design?  And everyone in this business that's not DE will tell you "No its not".  Most of the people who got the mod likely aren't even going to use it due to snipers not being popular.  A lot of the community is mad because the people that do use snipers, most of them can't get it due to having some sort of life outside of Warframe (during a holiday weekend I might add).  So their options are to A) Give it to everyone, and insult the top 100 even more.  B) Actually give the top 100 something worth while and anger the rest of the community and unbalance the game more. If they would just give one time only colors, or other cosmetics.  They are more flashy and people can brag to their hearts delight.  More importantly, they wouldn't alienate most of your game community (and thus, is good game design).

Edited July 21, 2013 by Traithan

[D3thpool]

Ah, we did not say the Primed Chamber mod is Exclusive to the Drone weekend event, it was just the first time it was introduced. Sorry for the confusion there! I imagine it will appear again in future events.

 

Which in return will be most likely again offered as a reward to the top players in the upcoming events no?

[Azraill]

 

B) Actually give the top 100 something worth while and anger the rest of the community and unbalance the game more. If they would just give one time only colors, or other cosmetics.  They are more flashy and people can brag to their hearts delight.  More importantly, they wouldn't alienate most of your game community (and thus, is good game design).

 

I'm cool with this.. since these damn threads are spread everywhere I'll say this for the fifth frikkin time!

 

Rank 87th here.. requesting exclusive cosmetic dead-spacey themed (with weapons drawn) walk animation + casual walk animation without weapons to make it complete. Flashy? No, but fun to play dead space in warframe. Ahm, anyway, they can come out with other walks down the road, just make this one ours and the start of a new walk trend. 

 

87th out!