Loki Rework

[Sirabot]

Okay this topic is screwed. You're all talking about Loki from a solo only perspective. I can't count the times I've helped new players with switch teleport, helping people get to mods in the void before they vanish, swapping people out of traps or too hard to reach places, using radial disarm as a stun, just to buy precious seconds in defense, swapping a toxic away from the pod before it dies, effectively sacrificing myself for the mission in some cases. Switch Teleport is NOT useless. And I've used radial disarm to lure mobs into Vauban's Bastille. A well placed Decoy can lure disarmed enemies into traps, be it other warframes' skills or traps within the void. Decoy is still viable, even if it's not a bullet tank. And I don't want to hear another word about it. Loki is Utility and should remain that way. To me he's one of the best frames in the game. No frame will ever be all you want it to be, I've made peace and mastered what it is to play a Loki. Adding a few stuns (CC) here and there to his abilities while retaining function would be Ideal, But I'm tired of people screaming change him.

 

All it sounds like here is that we have a bunch of people that suck at playing what truely is a great Warframe. He is the "Blue" of Magic The Gathering, Think; He requires you to think.

 

PS: I don't stealth all the time. Because I have weapons that actually kill things... at range. His OP stealth is balanced with his pitifully low HP and armor. But it's also a great way to help downed players in a firefight. It's your one saving grace vs high level enemies without giving loki a health and armor buff, which would destroy the point of loki. It does need some sort of retort, I'll give it that. Like when you're invisible and shooting enemies and they act like you're not even there...

Edited July 24, 2013 by Sirabot

[Sirabot]

Invisibility should end as soon as you hit an enemy. It should give a massive damage bonus for that strike, and it should refund a large amount of the energy cost on a successful hit. I want to see invisibility as a skill that makes loki pop in and out of the shadows.

 

edit: It wouid be interesting to have invisibility give you a set number of charges that are expended each time you strike an enemy. Every time that you strike an enemy, your invisibility should go down for a small amount of time before you automatically restealth..

Sounds like a nerf to an already feeble frame. Sounds like you don't care about the people that enjoy playing him. Sounds Like I don't like your post.

[MeteorKing]

Okay this topic is screwed. You're all talking about Loki from a solo only perspective. I can't count the times I've helped new players with switch teleport, helping people get to mods in the void before they vanish, swapping people out of traps or too hard to reach places, using radial disarm as a stun, just to buy precious seconds in defense, swapping a toxic away from the pod before it dies, effectively sacrificing myself for the mission in some cases. Switch Teleport is NOT useless. And I've used radial disarm to lure mobs into Vauban's Bastille. A well placed Decoy can lure disarmed enemies into traps, be it other warframes' skills or traps within the void. Decoy is still viable, even if it's not a bullet tank. And I don't want to hear another word about it. Loki is Utility and should remain that way. To me he's one of the best frames in the game. No frame will ever be all you want it to be, I've made peace and mastered what it is to play a Loki. Adding a few stuns (CC) here and there to his abilities while retaining function would be Ideal, But I'm tired of people screaming change him.

 

All it sounds like here is that we have a bunch of people that suck at playing what truely is a great Warframe. He is the "Blue" of Magic The Gathering, Think; He requires you to think.

 

PS: I don't stealth all the time. Because I have weapons that actually kill things... at range. His OP stealth is balanced with his pitifully low HP and armor. But it's also a great way to help downed players in a firefight. It's your one saving grace vs high level enemies without giving loki a health and armor buff, which would destroy the point of loki. It does need some sort of retort, I'll give it that. Like when you're invisible and shooting enemies and they act like you're not even there...

I think people forget that there are guns in the game that you use to kill the other things with guns.

[Red-Lynx]

Okay this topic is screwed. You're all talking about Loki from a solo only perspective. I can't count the times I've helped new players with switch teleport, helping people get to mods in the void before they vanish, swapping people out of traps or too hard to reach places, using radial disarm as a stun, just to buy precious seconds in defense, swapping a toxic away from the pod before it dies, effectively sacrificing myself for the mission in some cases. Switch Teleport is NOT useless. And I've used radial disarm to lure mobs into Vauban's Bastille. A well placed Decoy can lure disarmed enemies into traps, be it other warframes' skills or traps within the void. Decoy is still viable, even if it's not a bullet tank. And I don't want to hear another word about it. Loki is Utility and should remain that way. To me he's one of the best frames in the game. No frame will ever be all you want it to be, I've made peace and mastered what it is to play a Loki. Adding a few stuns (CC) here and there to his abilities while retaining function would be Ideal, But I'm tired of people screaming change him.

 

All it sounds like here is that we have a bunch of people that suck at playing what truely is a great Warframe. He is the "Blue" of Magic The Gathering, Think; He requires you to think.

Well okay, dad, if you don't want to hear anymore about it I certainly understand that, but just for the sake of healthy discussion, why don't we debate this just a tad more?

 

I've had a short discussion with Troublechutor about Loki in another thread, and I'm happy to say I agree with most of his points. Decoy is indeed viable if you like creating auto-pathing bugs and placing the Decoy in a select few types of places so it doesn't combust in a matter of 3 seconds from being peppered by Grineer/Corpus ace shots or big beefy infested on high level missions. This problem becomes even more apparent as you climb into high level defense and T3 Void missions. Now as an example let's compare that to Nyx's Mind Control and Chaos - Mind Control effectively takes an enemy of your choice, preferably a heavy or Infested Healer, out of the fight, has them fight for you, and draw aggro while doing it, and Chaos gives every enemy their own personal Decoy to play with and is only limited by how heavily their allies are attacking them and their own beefiness.

 

From an efficiency and team contribution point of view, why would you want to use Loki's Decoy if you have access to Nyx in the battlefield Update 9 has given us? As he currently stands, he is definitely in need of help to bring him up in usefulness. I'm sure you're a true master at Loki, but considering your approach to this argument and your accusations that anyone with a differing opinion somehow "sucks", I'm inclined to doubt your usefulness in the discussion. People want some good changes for one of the favorite Warframes, and it's a discussion worth having.

 

Shall u share the link of ur vid please?

I have no videos, either, but I can confirm from my own gameplay that it does go past walls, ceilings, and floors. It's hard to ignore that this is happening when Grineer are actually combusting from Radial Disarm a whole wall away and numbers pop up in other rooms when I hit Kappa. Not so sure that should be happening so much, but it does.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Red-Lynx

[Troublechutor]

Okay this topic is screwed. You're all talking about Loki from a solo only perspective.

If he can't solo, he's broken.  Team play is all fine and good, anyone can be a team player with any frame... no doubt... but if you can't solo, then you're FORCED to team play, and that's not something everyone is interested in, all the time.

[whitejackale]

Sounds like a nerf to an already feeble frame. Sounds like you don't care about the people that enjoy playing him. Sounds Like I don't like your post.

I am a Loki player. Being able to continuously attack from stealth for almost twenty seconds is lame. I have played stealth classes for years in many games, and I gotta say that Loki's stealth mechanic is one of the cheesiest stealth mechanics I have seen so far.

Edited July 25, 2013 by whitejackale

[Dasmir]

I am a Loki player. Being able to continuously attack from stealth for almost twenty seconds is lame. I have played stealth classes for years in many games, and I gotta say that Loki's stealth mechanic is one of the cheesiest stealth mechanics I have seen so far.

 

I am a Loki player. Being able to continuously attack from stealth for almost twenty seconds is great. with streamline+energy siphon i can easy spam it and enjoy hitting them in the balls with my hammer.

[Tidezen]

I am a Loki player. Being able to continuously attack from stealth for almost twenty seconds is great. with streamline+energy siphon i can easy spam it and enjoy hitting them in the balls with my hammer.

 

Yeah, this is actually THE most fun I've had playing a stealth class in a long time.  From square one in this game I've pursued my dream of having a melee-heavy assassin--while the team is firing from the front, I stealth directly into their flanks and start taking them out one-by-one.  About 40 hours into the game I finally had the right mods and weapons to make it work.  If they took that away I'd quit tomorrow, wouldn't even need to think twice about it.

 

As to the discussion, I think most people seem to be agreeing here that Loki only needs a few tweaks.  Biggest one is decoy scaling.  Just make it invincible, but set the duration to like 10 seconds.  Then you never have to worry about how to scale it, it just works for what it does, buys your team some breathing room.

 

Another option I kinda like is giving it a damage reflect, sort of a voodoo-doll type feel, keeps in line with the trickster motif.  "Why are you hitting yourself?"  Wouldn't have to be 100% reflect, maybe like 30-50%.  Though I don't think you could pair that with invincibility, unless you were to move it to a higher cost ability.  Although that does fit in with...

 

Switch teleport.  The only real problem I have with this ability is its cost.  It's fine for what it does, it is definitely more a niche ability, but I don't think it needs more bells and whistles.  Just make it 35 energy.  Boom, done, now I'd actually use it.  

 

But the big main thing is just making decoy worthwhile to cast.  Then we wouldn't feel so reliant on invis for everything.  

 

Here's one last idea to take the pressure off invis: While decoy is active, 30-50% of the damage you take is absorbed by your decoy.  Again, decoy would have to scale with you or be invincible for its duration for this to work.  Although I'm afraid this would force players into "always must have decoy active at all times".  But then it'd at least be a choice between that and invis.

 

Oh and MAKE SENTINEL INVIS WITH YOU.  I don't care if it can shoot or not, just please fix this.  No other class has to deal with that crap.

[Endorphinz]

Loki's ultimate ability should make bubble wrap appear everywhere, and distract the enemies.

[HammerHead90]

I only had one idea about Loki's skills:

If the switch teleport forced the enemies to ignore you for a second, and keep firing at the thing you switched with at the same time, doing damage. It would change the teleport from purely mobility enchancing ability to somewhat useful thing for taking out weaker enemies and helping with escapes.

 

EDIT - @Phoenix - didn't read, lol.

Edited July 25, 2013 by HammerHead90

[Phoenix86]

I only had one idea about Loki's skills:

If the switch teleport forced the enemies to ignore you for a second, and keep firing at the thing you switched with at the same time, doing damage. It would change the teleport from purely mobility enchancing ability to somewhat useful thing for taking out weaker enemies and helping with escapes.

 

that's the idea i proposed on page 2 :)

[whitejackale]

Yeah, this is actually THE most fun I've had playing a stealth class in a long time.  From square one in this game I've pursued my dream of having a melee-heavy assassin--while the team is firing from the front, I stealth directly into their flanks and start taking them out one-by-one.  About 40 hours into the game I finally had the right mods and weapons to make it work.  If they took that away I'd quit tomorrow, wouldn't even need to think twice about it.

It is kind of sad that people get any enjoyment out of being able to be permanently stealthed while spamming attacks.

[Troublechutor]

It is kind of sad that people get any enjoyment out of being able to be permanently stealthed while spamming attacks.

That's unfair.  Why do you feel like you need to pass judgement on what someone else finds fun.  I may not find what you do fun, but I wouldn't call your chosen "fun" activity sad as a result.

 

If you don't understand it, fine... but don't sit there and claim superiority.   Some people do like EZ mode (I don't, but whatever) and if they want to keep it, fine... you're not obligated to use it, who cares what they do?

 

I personally find hit-scan weapons to be skilless and boring, but I don't crap on players who use Hek and don't understand how easy it is to use vs. a crappy Paris... you like hitscan, fine... I'm not going to look down on you for it, I'll just stick to my "fun" Paris and be bad at the game :)

Edited July 25, 2013 by Troublechutor

[Sirabot]

Well okay, dad, if you don't want to hear anymore about it I certainly understand that, but just for the sake of healthy discussion, why don't we debate this just a tad more?

 

I've had a short discussion with Troublechutor about Loki in another thread, and I'm happy to say I agree with most of his points. Decoy is indeed viable if you like creating auto-pathing bugs and placing the Decoy in a select few types of places so it doesn't combust in a matter of 3 seconds from being peppered by Grineer/Corpus ace shots or big beefy infested on high level missions. This problem becomes even more apparent as you climb into high level defense and T3 Void missions. Now as an example let's compare that to Nyx's Mind Control and Chaos - Mind Control effectively takes an enemy of your choice, preferably a heavy or Infested Healer, out of the fight, has them fight for you, and draw aggro while doing it, and Chaos gives every enemy their own personal Decoy to play with and is only limited by how heavily their allies are attacking them and their own beefiness.

 

From an efficiency and team contribution point of view, why would you want to use Loki's Decoy if you have access to Nyx in the battlefield Update 9 has given us? As he currently stands, he is definitely in need of help to bring him up in usefulness. I'm sure you're a true master at Loki, but considering your approach to this argument and your accusations that anyone with a differing opinion somehow "sucks", I'm inclined to doubt your usefulness in the discussion. People want some good changes for one of the favorite Warframes, and it's a discussion worth having.

 

Fair. I was tired and aggravated because everyone is talking about Loki's abilities being null and void for solo play. And I'm sorry son. Even now that I'm awake, I still feel that way. I expect you'll be moving out when you're 18. And for the record, People may want it, but I haven't seen a suggestion that could be considered a good change. EDIT: Not even my own.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Sirabot

[Troublechutor]

 I expect you'll be moving out when you're 18.

Um... what is this about?  

 

As to the rest of your post... Loki's abilities in solo play are fine, if you like invisibility.  What I (and most people) want is for the rest of his suite to be at least in competition with invisiblity, because right now that's all you need and its the only thing cost-effective to use.  Its also manditory which makes it unfun.

 

I mean, sure... solo xini is mostly about decoy, but outside of specific missions/situations, you don't need (or want) to use anything else.  Invis (as it works now) covers all your tactical and strategic needs all the time.  

Edited July 25, 2013 by Troublechutor

[Kielix7]

It is kind of sad that people get any enjoyment out of being able to be permanently stealthed while spamming attacks.

+1, it's like people forgot what the term "stealth" meant, and replaced it with "I'm invisible forever, I'm so stealthy, WEEEEE!"

Like I said before, having your only redeeming ability take you out of the fight for 20+ seconds a pop isn't a game mechanic, it's a gimmick.

[Bakercompany86]

+1, it's like people forgot what the term "stealth" meant, and replaced it with "I'm invisible forever, I'm so stealthy, WEEEEE!"

Like I said before, having your only redeeming ability take you out of the fight for 20+ seconds a pop isn't a game mechanic, it's a gimmick.

It's not even invisibility. It's really "remove yourself from the game but can still do damage".  You basically don't exist for this "invisibility".  You cannot take damage, enemies basically forget all about you immediately (instead of scrambling) and you can sit there and just wail away on a guy and he ignores the fact.

I do not currently like Loki's stealth.  I'd rather an active-camo type deal that is permanent, but drops when you strike.  It could enhance stealth while active greatly, and in combat make you harder to hit.

Almost anything would be better than what it is now, in my personal opinion.  I don't like vanishing and the game turns into a gallery shooter.  I couldn't imagine how cheap it would be with an Orthos and a shotgun +30 seconds of invisibility (I'm still relatively low level).

[Kielix7]

Almost anything would be better than what it is now, in my personal opinion.  I don't like vanishing and the game turns into a gallery shooter.  I couldn't imagine how cheap it would be with an Orthos and a shotgun +30 seconds of invisibility (I'm still relatively low level).

 

A page previous I suggested removing Invisibility and reworking it into a dodge mechanic, where you basically look like Loki's Decoy and am able to dodge a % of incoming projectiles for an amount of time. Higher ranks = more dodge%.

 

And yes, running around with long term invisibility means I can use my Hek to destroy most bosses without spending more than 50 energy.

I remember being able to kill Phorid before the invis wears off pre Update 9. I wonder if I could still do it.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Kielix7

[Bakercompany86]

A page previous I suggested removing Invisibility and reworking it into a dodge mechanic, where you basically look like Loki's Decoy and am able to dodge a % of incoming projectiles for an amount of time. Higher ranks = more dodge%

Would be great, although I don't want to lose the Loki's stealth aspect.  I *do* want him to have a form of invis/active camo.  I do *not* want him to have this wicked invulnerability thing.  I understand he's light, fast, and flimsy, but can disappear altogether.  I'd almost like to see cooldown abilities or something...like a smoke bomb that does the same thing and last for 5 seconds, but has a 30-45 second cooldown or something.  That way it's more of an escape ability instead of this ridiculous offensive invulnerability.

I think it would be neat if Loki we're permanently cloaked with this mod engaged, but not a game breaking cloak like he has now.  Increase stealth before detection, decrease chance of being hit after detection.

[Kielix7]

Would be great, although I don't want to lose the Loki's stealth aspect.  I *do* want him to have a form of invis/active camo.    I'd almost like to see cooldown abilities or something...like a smoke bomb that does the same thing and last for 5 seconds, but has a 30-45 second cooldown or something.

I think it would be neat if Loki we're permanently cloaked with this mod engaged, but not a game breaking cloak like he has now.  Increase stealth before detection, decrease chance of being hit after detection.

 

If Loki never had invisibility to begin with, would you still be defending that? Or now that he has invisibility and is part of who he is, do you not want to change him because you don't want to lose part of Loki's identity, or because you actually like the stealth aspect of his gameplay (which is almost ALL of his gameplay.)

 

Loki is described as a trickster; being tricky does not mean being invisible. That's why I suggested the distorted dodge mechanic. Making something of a smoke bomb would be more along Ash's style, and cooldowns cannot be tacked onto only one frame. It will have to be equally and fairly distributed among the entire warframe lineup, and that's a huge game changing commitment.

 

So, even if you still DO like his invis, you can't deny it's used pretty frivolously to the point where it's all Loki does. (Or can do.)

Maybe a mixture of our abilities?

He goes invisible to start, but once he starts sprinting / parkouring / melee / shooting, he loses his stealth and it turns into that distortion dodge effect, but after 2 seconds of inactivity, he returns to full invis. 

[Bakercompany86]

If Loki never had invisibility to begin with, would you still be defending that? Or now that he has invisibility and is part of who he is, do you not want to change him because you don't want to lose part of Loki's identity, or because you actually like the stealth aspect of his gameplay (which is almost ALL of his gameplay.)

 

Loki is described as a trickster; being tricky does not mean being invisible. That's why I suggested the distorted dodge mechanic. Making something of a smoke bomb would be more along Ash's style, and cooldowns cannot be tacked onto only one frame. It will have to be equally and fairly distributed among the entire warframe lineup, and that's a huge game changing commitment.

 

So, even if you still DO like his invis, you can't deny it's used pretty frivolously to the point where it's all Loki does. (Or can do.)

Maybe a mixture of our abilities?

He goes invisible to start, but once he starts sprinting / parkouring / melee / shooting, he loses his stealth and it turns into that distortion dodge effect, but after 2 seconds of inactivity, he returns to full invis. 

 

When you put it that way, it makes a lot more sense.

 

I like your bottom sentence.  I think that's the best combination so far.  Keeps it in line with his "trickery".

 

Yeah the implementation of cooldown abilities would be a major game mechanic change.  I know it's most likely beyond the scope of this beta, and was mainly speculation.  It could work well, but is certainly not necessary.

I'd also like to see a bit of passive energy regen on all frames.  I think a slow regen would be good for this game so we don't have to entirely rely on drops for replenishment.

[Kielix7]

When you put it that way, it makes a lot more sense.

 

I like your bottom sentence.  I think that's the best combination so far.  Keeps it in line with his "trickery".

 

Yeah the implementation of cooldown abilities would be a major game mechanic change.  I know it's most likely beyond the scope of this beta, and was mainly speculation.  It could work well, but is certainly not necessary.

I'd also like to see a bit of passive energy regen on all frames.  I think a slow regen would be good for this game so we don't have to entirely rely on drops for replenishment.

 

I'm going to get off topic for a minute.

 

You know... It's funny when you think about it. When you try to fix one thing, you don't notice you have the fix all the other things that you f8cked up from messing with the first thing. Then it's a bunch of other things that don't mesh well with the first thing. Then you have a whole mess of things that make no sense, and have to f8ck with it more to get it make sense at all.

 

Some people call it "game development" and "the evolution of the game." I call it "lack for foresight."

 

[Example]

You add auras instead of artifacts and give them polarities. Now you constrict the frames that need that energy siphon to have reduced mod effectiveness from putting a - polarity in a v slot, like Banshee. Now you add a regen mechanic, so those frames that need that aura suffer even more. Then you have to use a forma to change that v into a - .

 

[Example 2]

You get Excalibur Prime. You see two V slots. First one goes focus, second one... Rage? What the hell else do you use? Nothing. Again, you're stuck with a polarity slot you can't (or won't) use, and am forced to use a forma to correct such a stupid mistake the DE made.

 

And if it doesn't get fixed, it just sits there, gathering dust. Eventually, enough people will complain, and it will get fixed, but there's no reason why it had to be this way in the first place. Just fix it to begin with. 

 

Where does this all loop back into this discussion? It's pretty much just a roundabout way of wasting my time at work to type this all out, but basically, they could have made Invisibility a fun, viable factor. Instead, it's just a plain ol' Invisibility field.

 

Go around on your high horse and smack things in the face with no repercussions and talk about how Loki is "so good", I'll be in the real world, smoking my cigar, having a drink, and laughing my &#! off.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Kielix7

[Bakercompany86]

I'm going to get off topic for a minute.

 

You know... It's funny when you think about it. When you try to fix one thing, you don't notice you have the fix all the other things that you f8cked up from messing with the first thing. Then it's a bunch of other things that don't mesh well with the first thing. Then you have a whole mess of things that make no sense, and have to f8ck with it more to get it make sense at all.

 

Some people call it "game development" and "the evolution of the game." I call it "lack for foresight."

 

[Example]

You add auras instead of artifacts and give them polarities. Now you constrict the frames that need that energy siphon to have reduced mod effectiveness from putting a - polarity in a v slot, like Banshee. Now you add a regen mechanic, so those frames that need that aura suffer even more. Then you have to use a forma to change that v into a - .

 

[Example 2]

You get Excalibur Prime. You see two V slots. First one goes focus, second one... Rage? What the hell else do you use? Nothing. Again, you're stuck with a polarity slot you can't (or won't) use, and am forced to use a forma to correct such a stupid mistake the DE made.

 

And if it doesn't get fixed, it just sits there, gathering dust. Eventually, enough people will complain, and it will get fixed, but there's no reason why it had to be this way in the first place. Just fix it to begin with. 

 

Where does this all loop back into this discussion? It's pretty much just a roundabout way of wasting my time at work to type this all out, but basically, they could have made Invisibility a fun, viable factor. Instead, it's just a plain ol' Invisibility field.

 

Go around on your high horse and smack things in the face with no repercussions and talk about how Loki is "so good", I'll be in the real world, smoking my cigar, having a drink, and laughing my &#! off.

 

If I had any complaint about Warframe so far, it would be along these lines.  Unoriginal stuff is okay, but you must add your own flare to it and make it really feel new.

 

Some of the stuff in this game feels fresh and new.  Then there are things like this which seems rather bland.  But that's why we're here =)

[Kisato]

Well I think I have to post something in here too.
Loki "was" the trickster, in some ways toooooo over powered.
The nerf to lokis decoy seems to be like a "yea just do it, we have to invest more time and sweat into other things" -nerf-
Now lokis decoy is just useless in highlevel. U can tell me what u want but u can only distract the enemies for 1-2 secs away because it will be 1-2shot.
In lower levels the decoy is fine-terrible. Loki should not be a frame for low levels.

I know the decoy is way too op to give it a decent buff. Because we all know, we will abuse it and place it into godlike places and break the game
and set the difficulty on all levels to -easy-.

Any other skills are fine for me, but I have to say , radial disarm is a 50 % 50% skill. It can turn the situation to good or bad. On high levels it can rly hurt your teammates. Turning the hiding and shy monsters into hacknslay barabrians.

Whatever. Loki is outdated in my opinion, so he needs a fresh and clean rework to balance him.
He doesnt need an op dmg skill or something, just better skills to use.
To make the feeling "sigh...loki in my team" into " Oh yes loki!".
 

[RoboDoge]

Well I think I have to post something in here too.

Loki "was" the trickster, in some ways toooooo over powered.

The nerf to lokis decoy seems to be like a "yea just do it, we have to invest more time and sweat into other things" -nerf-

Now lokis decoy is just useless in highlevel. U can tell me what u want but u can only distract the enemies for 1-2 secs away because it will be 1-2shot.

In lower levels the decoy is fine-terrible. Loki should not be a frame for low levels.

I know the decoy is way too op to give it a decent buff. Because we all know, we will abuse it and place it into godlike places and break the game

and set the difficulty on all levels to -easy-.

Any other skills are fine for me, but I have to say , radial disarm is a 50 % 50% skill. It can turn the situation to good or bad. On high levels it can rly hurt your teammates. Turning the hiding and shy monsters into hacknslay barabrians.

Whatever. Loki is outdated in my opinion, so he needs a fresh and clean rework to balance him.

He doesnt need an op dmg skill or something, just better skills to use.

To make the feeling "sigh...loki in my team" into " Oh yes loki!".

 

I was looking for way to define Loki as he feels now, and you just said it. He feels outdated. And forgotten. Loki only needs minor tweaks to Decoy and Radial Disarm. Remove or nerf invisibility and you will kill him completely. People are forgetting that Loki doenst have panic mode power that instakills mobs.