World on Fire, Again.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

44 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

They never will, and soon they'll be yelling to nerf the next big thing (like I've heard some comments on the Akstiletto Prime being a broken OP weapon - but it's really doesn't start getting strong until you've maxed 3 primed mods and Hornet Strike).

Im not yelling to nerf anything. Obviously DE will have noticed the past 100 posts complaining about Ember. Wether they act on it or not is one thing, but since everyone likes to complain about generally the same thing, youll notice there unanimous support for what people think is wrong with it, but zero agreement on how to fix it. Thats a recipe for disaster that left volt in the sorry state he is. Volt is the example of all the little details that went into a failed rework. And you denying that Ember is on DE's radar right now would be like denying that the world will end someday. Other than that, i generally agree with you in this post, so i dont see how you think im yelling for nerfs. Someone needs to stop the nonsense. I dont know why everyone is fixated on Ember personally. I guess ill just have to make that many more Nova posts. 

[Almagnus1]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I dont know why everyone is fixated on Ember personally. I guess ill just have to make that many more Nova posts. 

It's cause Nova lets people kill stuff, whereas Ember doesn't.. so Nova feels better to the bean counters that obsess over their scoreboards... instead of realizing that the Ember on your Relic run is actually helping you get to the roll that much faster.

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Gotcha! using the reticle to mark enemies is not so good right? now you understand why ash`s bs is rubbish I was making a point and you proved it with that comment. That aside I agree with what you said about fire procs and abilities affecting wof it stops people from spamming 4. I strongly advise you to take this to DE.

You could have just said that about ashes bladestorm from the beginning, whay do you mean "gotcha"? I was actually more worried you wouldnt want to budge from your ash idea...that really apparentlt wasnt real. As far as taking it to DE, i dont know how that would happen. I dont pm them. It might be me being weird, but i think its probably less likely to be noticed in a private message that someone who recieves hundreds of private messages a day has no obligation to read. My ideas are just posted in feedback or in concepts. And like iv posted before, i think Ember should get a mix of what Excal and Saryn got.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

7 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

It's cause Nova lets people kill stuff, whereas Ember doesn't.. so Nova feels better to the bean counters that obsess over their scoreboards... instead of realizing that the Ember on your Relic run is actually helping you get to the roll that much faster.

 

I hate when people respond with that....so if someone (you knew) ate off your plate, youd be upset right? Sure. Sharing isnt caring. But if someone insisted on spoon feeding you your food, even if your a grown functioning adult, your perfectly fine?....

Not you @Almagnus1, just an example.

Oh, also, some people want to enjoy the mission. But thats a flawed argument as well. Or flawed veiw. Ember or no Ember, the only way im spending 20 minutes in a mission is if its endless. Theres no Godly reason why i would entertain someone who wanted to frolic around looking at the same tileset, on the same map, thats been here for years. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[Djego27]

On 8.10.2017 at 4:08 AM, Almagnus1 said:

Considering you're the one that claims to be able to sortie solo on Ember with a Mara Detron and a Boar Prime...

You first.

 

The thing is I do not only claim, I shown you how wrong you are about Ember, similar as I can show you that you can do over L100 with Ember solo on Hieracon:

Now please take you non existing knowledge about Ember and your 12 year old ego with a minority complex and find yourself a Inaors thread were people discussing how good they are by being able to press the 1 on her keyboard in such a demanding game as warframe what still requires a reaction time of just 30-60s with 16k EHP. There you can convince people how much you know about the game because stuff dies by pressing x when the prompt appears on the screen.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Djego27

[Djego27]

On 8.10.2017 at 7:26 AM, traybong111 said:

I mean, it's not impossible. Just not as convenient and/or efficient as, say, spamming 250% power strength Frost and waltzing through (in case of Grineer Sorties). I don't use Boar Prime as much (Strun Wraith is a better shotgun, fite me @Djego27) but it's a 100% status shotgun so with WoF's CC, Boar Prime's armor stripping, and Mara Detron's decent firepower an Ember could still handle Sorties. All "normal" content in Warframe can be solo'd easily except Trials and even then there's been players who cleared JV alone after 2 hours. 

And I feel Excavation trouble is mostly due to, you know, broke-d!ck-piece-of-sh!t drill--I will never not refer to video game drills this way--not really Ember herself, although that can still be circumvented by mass-purchasing Ancient Healer specters from New Loka for the low, low price of 2500 rep.

The Strun Wraith works fine for longer runs with hard CC, on a soft CC frame like Ember not so much since the reload speed change. The issue with status shotguns always was that the damage is very back loaded, what means it sits at the end of the clip, where the long reload time of the strun wraith makes zero sense and 0.1s reload speed of the boar prime is preferable. Another thing is that the actual damage of a status shotgun does not matter this much, given that a accelerant powered strun wraith will shred the target in the same 2 rounds after you did soften up the armor as the boar prime given that the actual HP under that armor is weak to fire and fairly trivial with like 50k at L100+. You do not really need healer spectres for L100 or 20 excavations, just a lot of dps to clear the field quick. The main issues beyond L100 is simply that the power core carrier osprays kill the excavator to quick with her gun, while also being immune to the fire proc, since Osprays do not have a CC animation for this.

On 8.10.2017 at 7:26 AM, traybong111 said:

Give Ember and heat procs from her abilities better CC & damage and then we can talk about changing or replacing WoF altogether. Calling to "nerf" or replace WoF is a specific demand; so should your plan to "improve" Ember. And let's face it this is Waframe, there will always be other frames and weapons to speed through low level missions so you won't see me upset over losing WoF for that. 

Every single one of Embers abilities already does CC, be it by heat procs or the stun of accelerant. I also do not see how demanding more damage on Ember would be justified, given that the frame already got more then enught damage to play to a point where literally everything one shots you. The reason why people complain about the lack of damage is simply that they do not utilize her weapons and powers to make use of what the frame provides, what is not really something you can blame on the frame design. Saryn for example has a similar issue.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Djego27

[Djego27]

This is from your other thread, I took the liberty to go over and cross quote that here.

 

Quote

Ember

Fire ball has splash damage. Like liquid liquid splash damage. A more effective, more up to date and cooler version of a napalm ball (pyrotechnic ogris). The closer you are to a target, the more explosive the attack is (no extra damage, just possible knockdown and explosion proc).

Fire ball has no cast delays, instead has a combo like rip line, resulting in larger explosions for slightly decreased cost.

Fire blasts ring of fire moves with the wall as apart of it, and remains as a slowly expanding ring of damage that eventually dissapers. Does as much nothing as it currently does. The area under Embers feet and immediately around her burns enemies like oberons carpet, and this area expands as well with multiple casts. Limit on range. Ring of fire can be removed completely instead.

Wof could be reduced in effectiveness to be the third ability with its duration back, as was done with Excals radial javelin, and accelerant could be incorporated into Embers ult, on cast and on decast and during slam attacks...overheat...i dont remember you, never experienced you but im asking for you to come back.

Why would you do a excessive fire ball rework? What do you try to accomplish with that? As stated on page one, fire ball is balanced against other 1s, while it does more damage then other first abilities by being stackable with accelerant, ability to use head shot multipliers(what for example pull can not) and having various utility use cases by the AOE.

Where would a slowly expanding fire ring be useful? For CC, damage, buffs?

I would probably first think to the end what you want to solve with a change to WoF and then make one suggestion, not a mix of multiple ideas in one scentence that gives next no input about what you actually want.

Why reworking fire blast if WoF should be Embers new 3?

Why should accelerant be included into Embers 4 skill, given that damage buffing abilities are on nearly all frames stand alone?

What exactly should happen on cast, slam attacks and when the timer runs out?

Why of all thing things you want to throw overheat into her kit as well?

If you want to change WoF, then you should make one suggestion. Explain what should be changed in detail, like I did on page one and what effect you hope would this change have on the game we play.

I can tell you very easy what my suggestion from page one(8-4 times less base damage on WoF, 5% of the fire damage you do against the target added to the fire dot) would do. It ends the era of WoF spam on the star map(and DE should go ahead to also change other abilities on other frames that play the game for you), while the change makes WoF considerable stronger at higher levels against heavy targets what is a considerable buff for newer players on the frame and reinforces using and modding your weapons correctly to do damage with the frame.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, Djego27 said:

This is from your other thread, I took the liberty to go over and cross quote that here.

 

Why would you do a excessive fire ball rework? What do you try to accomplish with that? As stated on page one, fire ball is balanced against other 1s, while it does more damage then other first abilities by being stackable with accelerant, ability to use head shot multipliers(what for example pull can not) and having various utility use cases by the AOE.

Where would a slowly expanding fire ring be useful? For CC, damage, buffs?

I would probably first think to the end what you want to solve with a change to WoF and then make one suggestion, not a mix of multiple ideas in one scentence that gives next no input about what you actually want.

Why reworking fire blast if WoF should be Embers new 3?

Why should accelerant be included into Embers 4 skill, given that damage buffing abilities are on nearly all frames stand alone?

What exactly should happen on cast, slam attacks and when the timer runs out?

Why of all thing things you want to throw overheat into her kit as well?

If you want to change WoF, then you should make one suggestion. Explain what should be changed in detail, like I did on page one and what effect you hope would this change have on the game we play.

I can tell you very easy what my suggestion from page one(8-4 times less base damage on WoF, 5% of the fire damage you do against the target added to the fire dot) would do. It ends the era of WoF spam on the star map(and DE should go ahead to also change other abilities on other frames that play the game for you), while the change makes WoF considerable stronger at higher levels against heavy targets what is a considerable buff for newer players on the frame and reinforces using and modding your weapons correctly to do damage with the frame.

I suggest these things because Ember wont be simply better off by have Wof reduced. That would be the dreaded nerf everyone is talking about (although it is scaling damage i beleive, you may be on to something), and i dont think she is so perfect she can just lose something and be fine. Fireball should be easier to use in my opinion, without the cast delay. Even with everything you listed, im not under the impression its is all that good. Its "aoe" is about as noticeable as Nekros soul punch. Because really they are one and the same. Reskins. How miasma is just a reskin of accelerant. And if you think not, thats fine, but iv seen this game for 4 years and its come along way is all im going to say for that.

 Not asking for extra damage, again, just some ease of use. Tempest barrage to me has that extra to it with a nice trade off of being "random". Sonic boom has that extra with no real trade off, unless its still not a one handed cast. Its also supposed to tie into her passive, but i didnt flesh it out well. 

Fire blasts ring of fire is obsolete. To say it was as bad an ability as super jump is an understatement. The expanding wall of fire added was something given grudgingly to Ember months, maybe even a year after arson eximus were added in to the game. I think what would actually do its job better is an area about the size of oberons old carpet, but still round....succesive casts would increase it ever so slightly. For those who think the fire ring does something of value, the suggestion was for it to move forward instead of hoping enemies would walk into it, which they almost never do...because the fire wall knocks things back, and if your letting anything get that close, your probably dead. 

Its a meh on accelerant. I never experienced overheat, just read about it. This ability should not be dome away with, but either wof remains the ult and only ignites enemies after a requirement has been met, it remains as a passive effect of the ult, reduced in damage until its pretty much plain cc, or it becomes a 3rd ability and another ult is introduced. Accelerant with a much smaller range would be cast here, on parkour movements while ult was active, if wof became the 3rd ability, or it could be apart of the slowly expanding ring of fire which would then show as a heat wave and not be apart of fire blast but be apart of casting the ult.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO

[(XBOX)qcevolution]

It sounds like ur suggesting to make the tedium and grind of low level missions runs even grindier... :(

The range on WOF isn’t even that crazy. Unless ur running overextended and if u r it’s doing no damage. And after about lvl 35 it’s common knowledge that WOF starts to drop off hard. Not to mention energy leech eximus and nullies shut it down hard. I am firmly in the camp that not everyone’s lit needs to be a damn mini game or an exalted weapon for the sake of interactivity or synergy. Ash suffered extremely from threads like these. Likewise Saryn became so dependent on having to cast a ridiculous amount of stuff and having to have a massive energy pool in the name of forced synergy. 

[Djego27]

On 8.10.2017 at 1:24 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I suggest these things because Ember wont be simply better off by have Wof reduced. That would be the dreaded nerf everyone is talking about (although it is scaling damage i beleive, you may be on to something), and i dont think she is so perfect she can just lose something and be fine. Fireball should be easier to use in my opinion, without the cast delay. Even with everything you listed, im not under the impression its is all that good. Its "aoe" is about as noticeable as Nekros soul punch. Because really they are one and the same. Reskins. How miasma is just a reskin of accelerant. And if you think not, thats fine, but iv seen this game for 4 years and its come along way is all im going to say for that.

 Not asking for extra damage, again, just some ease of use. Tempest barrage to me has that extra to it with a nice trade off of being "random". Sonic boom has that extra with no real trade off, unless its still not a one handed cast. Its also supposed to tie into her passive, but i didnt flesh it out well. 

Fire blasts ring of fire is obsolete. To say it was as bad an ability as super jump is an understatement. The expanding wall of fire added was something given grudgingly to Ember months, maybe even a year after arson eximus were added in to the game. I think what would actually do its job better is an area about the size of oberons old carpet, but still round....succesive casts would increase it ever so slightly. For those who think the fire ring does something of value, the suggestion was for it to move forward instead of hoping enemies would walk into it, which they almost never do...because the fire wall knocks things back, and if your letting anything get that close, your probably dead. 

Its a meh on accelerant. I never experienced overheat, just read about it. This ability should not be dome away with, but either wof remains the ult and only ignites enemies after a requirement has been met, it remains as a passive effect of the ult, reduced in damage until its pretty much plain cc, or it becomes a 3rd ability and another ult is introduced. Accelerant with a much smaller range would be cast here, on parkour movements while ult was active, if wof became the 3rd ability, or it could be apart of the slowly expanding ring of fire which would then show as a heat wave and not be apart of fire blast but be apart of casting the ult.

Well correct me if I am wrong, but you explained that your problem with WoF is that it makes lower levels fairly boring to play for everybody. I just do not see how you want to change that, if you are not suggesting a change to address what you labelled a issue. Like with most things in life there is no magic solution that makes everything perfect, given that everything is more or less just a compromise. I am not worried about that and I play the frame since years.

What would be the overall advantage of fire ball not having a cast delay? Damage? CC? Also you are correct that a lot of one skills work very similar, what is not necessary a bad thing as it is now, given that it is convenient(and very noticeable if it is not present in a ability like spore at higher levels) and easy to balance, even if it could be improved on in the long run to make frames more unique.

Fire blast would be all right if the full ring would be on fire with a high status chance. Having a placeable area that slows stuff down it fairly good and can be quite useful at higher levels where it is a very interesting and handy mechanic with Frost.

It would really be much easier to discuss a change if cut the "either" and "or". You should decide on one thing and add numbers to it(range, damage, energy cost, scaling etc.) to build a concept that you can on your own fairly judge if it will be able to archive what you aim for as well as it gives other people her on the forums a clear idea of what you are looking for. Overheat btw was just used as plain damage reduction when I look at old videos, similar to scatter shield and people mostly complained about the change because they suddenly could not stand semi afk in a spot any more, while next to nobody did welcome the immense damage buff that accelerant did provide.

On 8.10.2017 at 1:35 PM, (Xbox One)qcevolution said:

It sounds like ur suggesting to make the tedium and grind of low level missions runs even grindier... :(

The range on WOF isn’t even that crazy. Unless ur running overextended and if u r it’s doing no damage. And after about lvl 35 it’s common knowledge that WOF starts to drop off hard. Not to mention energy leech eximus and nullies shut it down hard. I am firmly in the camp that not everyone’s lit needs to be a damn mini game or an exalted weapon for the sake of interactivity or synergy. Ash suffered extremely from threads like these. Likewise Saryn became so dependent on having to cast a ridiculous amount of stuff and having to have a massive energy pool in the name of forced synergy. 

I am suggesting that people actually play the game with a mix of weapons, movement and abilities instead of leaving that to just turning on one ability, given that we play a co op shooter and not a slot machine. Even if DEs reward mechanics  and how most people approach them kind of suggests that they just want to play a slot machine.

The only thing you need to cast is spore and the major bulk of Saryns energy issues come from not having a quick CC on spore from my personal experience beyond L100 solo with the frame, what forces you to spam miasma at higher levels for enught CC to stay alive.

[(XBOX)qcevolution]

Another thing to consider is almost all frames are exceedingly good at something. Frost excels at defense. He and Vauban also shine on hijack. Loki, Ibarra, and limbo trivialize stealth. Titania makes most of the games boss missions a breeze. All the while mag is still decimating an entire faction in her sleep. It just so happens that the place ember really shines is in quick extermination style missions.  That by no means means that this is all those frames are good at. I can take a high duration negative strength accelerant ember into high content with an ignis or atomos and be just fine. However you also can’t fault players for using a frames to their strengths. Especially in a game like this where u may have to run the same exterminate 20x to find something u need. It’s efficient and saves time. 

[Djego27]

On 8.10.2017 at 4:38 PM, (Xbox One)qcevolution said:

Another thing to consider is almost all frames are exceedingly good at something. Frost excels at defense. He and Vauban also shine on hijack. Loki, Ibarra, and limbo trivialize stealth. Titania makes most of the games boss missions a breeze. All the while mag is still decimating an entire faction in her sleep. It just so happens that the place ember really shines is in quick extermination style missions. 

Any frame can do a quick exterminate mission. The reason why people chose Ember is that it removes the shooting part, what is questionable at best given we play a co op shooter.

On 8.10.2017 at 4:38 PM, (Xbox One)qcevolution said:

I can take a high duration negative strength accelerant ember into high content with an ignis or atomos and be just fine. However you also can’t fault players for using a frames to their strengths. Especially in a game like this where u may have to run the same exterminate 20x to find something u need. It’s efficient and saves time. 

I do not see how something like this would be considered as strength of ember, given that duration is not that useful and with negative power strength you literally handicap yourself to do any damage with weapons that you should never use at high levels on Ember anyway.

Is it really that much to ask for to actually shoot stuff that will die at lower levels with pretty much any weapon at any range in a single hit at lower levels thx to constant power creep?

[(XBOX)qcevolution]

Why does it bother u so much that people dont want to use their guns? Yes it's a third person shooter, but its also a role player. Some ppl enjoy the powers more than the minute to minute gunplay and vice versa. (I for instance HATE melee *Shrugs* ) It really doesn't make much of a difference wen the result would be the same. For instance I cud join any star chart exterminate with my Amprex and roflstomp everything with barely any effort at all on my part. I can almost guarantee you that I will outpace most of my team by at least 100 kills, leaving most of them barely scraping 20kills. Im saying this from experience as the amprex is my favorite primary. 

That being said, this is the same situation, only with a gun. But is it ok because I used a gun and had to aim?(and im saying Aim generously) Or does the amprex need to be nerf as well?

Edited October 8, 2017 by (XB1)qcevolution

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

5 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Well correct me if I am wrong, but you explained that your problem with WoF is that it makes lower levels fairly boring to play for everybody. I just do not see how you want to change that, if you are not suggesting a change to address what you labelled a issue. Like with most things in life there is no magic solution that makes everything perfect, given that everything is more or less just a compromise. I am not worried about that and I play the frame since years.

What would be the overall advantage of fire ball not having a cast delay? Damage? CC? Also you are correct that a lot of one skills work very similar, what is not necessary a bad thing as it is now, given that it is convenient(and very noticeable if it is not present in a ability like spore at higher levels) and easy to balance, even if it could be improved on in the long run to make frames more unique.

Fire blast would be all right if the full ring would be on fire with a high status chance. Having a placeable area that slows stuff down it fairly good and can be quite useful at higher levels where it is a very interesting and handy mechanic with Frost.

It would really be much easier to discuss a change if cut the "either" and "or". You should decide on one thing and add numbers to it(range, damage, energy cost, scaling etc.) to build a concept that you can on your own fairly judge if it will be able to archive what you aim for as well as it gives other people her on the forums a clear idea of what you are looking for. Overheat btw was just used as plain damage reduction when I look at old videos, similar to scatter shield and people mostly complained about the change because they suddenly could not stand semi afk in a spot any more, while next to nobody did welcome the immense damage buff that accelerant did provide.

 

I dont think i stated a problem with Wof, but if i did, so be it. I came here to talk to the people asking for simple nerfs to it, as thats what these posts generally tend to be. If possible, i would like to use your idea for wof, but my idea was to make it less powerful or make it only affect enemies already proced with heat. Im not a math guy, but i also never make concepts intended for my idea to not change. If anything will get to DE, its going to be a group submission. No single post ever influences anything. As for why the buff to fireball...i think many first abilities should be able to be a little more fun to use. Im also imagining Fireball not actually putting enemies into the panic animation unless its been used multiple times or in sinc with accelerant, although i really just have a problem with the animation...no one ever just satnds in one place amd waves their arms in the air while on fire, except in warframe.

 As per my original suggestion, itd be more blast damage without the cloudy animation blast damage has. I cant make a valid argument other than the reason i dont use it is because fire blast is 10x more useful. I often miss when using fire ball and hit the ground next to an enemy (i jump around alot...and am used to playing volt....and sometimes the sun gets in my eyes, excuses.). Theres also no reason for me personally to cast it when im carrying a grenade launcher with three different types of elemental damage, one of which is fire. I think fireball is as about as fun or useful as iron jab. But if it were treated like spores for spreading procs/ripline for combo meter thing that decrease cost, itd be great. Id even add that you should hold to charge it, but the main reason i make these suggestions is that i like the feel of first abilities like sonic boom, tempest barrage while being dissapointed by ones like spectral scream or soul punch, and loathing ones that do even less like iron jab (that has an inconceivable range limit, rather than being the same length as your ult, because its the same staff, unless he carries 2), or fire ball which is again, doing less than soul punch.

P.s. Poking people is something that could be incoporated into casting or decasting primal fury....or apart of the stance, so he can get a good first.

Most people feel like those abilities are fine as is, but if most first abilities arent worth casting over weapons (even with headshot multipliers) then why is it taking up space in her kit? And i find it interesting you told me it has head shot multipliers, because DE removed headshot damage from aoe explosions (unless they reimplemented it). So that tells me they thought of Ember and kept it, or forgot she had it. Something trivial, really doesnt matter, but still something im thinking about.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[Djego27]

On 8.10.2017 at 5:58 PM, (Xbox One)qcevolution said:

Why does it bother u so much that people dont want to use their guns? Yes it's a third person shooter, but its also a role player. Some ppl enjoy the powers more than the minute to minute gunplay and vice versa. (I for instance HATE melee *Shrugs* ) It really doesn't make much of a difference wen the result would be the same. For instance I cud join any star chart exterminate with my Amprex and roflstomp everything with barely any effort at all on my part. I can almost guarantee you that I will outpace most of my team by at least 100 kills, leaving most of them barely scraping 20kills. Im saying this from experience as the amprex is my favorite primary. 

That being said, this is the same situation, only with a gun. But is it ok because I used a gun and had to aim?(and im saying Aim generously) Or does the amprex need to be nerf as well?

Warframe is a lot but certainly not a role playing game, heck most MMOs do not deserve to be labelled as this in the modern days.

It mostly bothers me because you hardly see people using weapons at lower levels today, heck even in sortis(I was the only person that used a sniper rifle to kill stuff in the sniper only sorti today). At the same time so many people defend that game play here on the forums. like there world would collapse if they actually would have to use a weapon in a 3. person shooter instead of standing mostly afk around and playing the game via a macro. Since your first reaction is also to switch to a gun that requires no aiming, let me ask you, why do you even play a 3. person shooter?

I would like if DE does change the mechanics on many of the AOE weapons, but at least people would not spend halve her mission afk like I see it nearly every day on pc.

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

32 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

Warframe is a lot but certainly not a role playing game, heck most MMOs do not deserve to be labelled as this in the modern days.

It mostly bothers me because you hardly see people using weapons at lower levels today, heck even in sortis(I was the only person that used a sniper rifle to kill stuff in the sniper only sorti today). At the same time so many people defend that game play here on the forums. like there world would collapse if they actually would have to use a weapon in a 3. person shooter instead of standing mostly afk around and playing the game via a macro. Since your first reaction is also to switch to a gun that requires no aiming, let me ask you, why do you even play a 3. person shooter?

I would like if DE does change the mechanics on many of the AOE weapons, but at least people would not spend halve her mission afk like I see it nearly every day on pc.

 

Your putting too much effort into trying to lable warframe as only a 3rd person shooter. If it can even be labled so. Most shooters (first or third) dont allow you to make every enemy in a radius around you stand still to get shot at your leisure. The reason the amprex is a viable option if Ember gets nerfed in a so called "3rd person shooter" is because the game is more heavily focused on loot chasing and grinding for gear. While you can go into a mission with sole purpose of shooting and having fun, its not on everyones agenda. I personally go everywhere with a secura penta. Clears trash mobs just fine, and the aoe explosion of radiation does the job too. The mission is a means to an end for some people, that mean being the gear you can obtain. And since every exterminate, and every excavation mission is the same, and warframe is full of clunky mechanics and cheese options, your only going out of your way to make the game feel a certain way when you try to look at it as just a shooter. Its too much to just be labled that.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[(XBOX)qcevolution]

@Djego27

Warframe is an amazing game. There’s soooooo many options and ways to play it. But one of the biggest draws for me is the frames themselves and their power sets. How u craft entire builds around them and their weaponry is secondary. It’s what separates this game from games like destiny. Where yes, u have characters classes and powers but they really only makes a difference once every 5mins or so. The rest of the time is spent shooting weapons that tend to all feel the same. Meanwhile in this game I can hop into parallel dimensions, set enemies ablaze, give them the plague, mind control armies, raise the dead, or even live my dream and b a freaking puddle. It’s just more fun. Warframe is a blast to play. 

And as an aside I chose the amprex out of efficiency. U can Mow down hordes with it faster than most of the highest tier weapons n the game can kill one enemy and this can go to pretty high level stuff. Once the damage tapers off at extremely high levels the weapon is still relevant cuz it has extremely high status chance. For me it has nothing to do with my kill count tho, We are all on the same team and I get nothing for having the most kills. It’s just quick and efficient. I have no problems with non meta builds and weapons. In fact one of my favorites is my 4forma embolist. It’s fun. That said it’s not gonna keep up with someone’s akstiletto prime. So I just play aware of this and accept what it is. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by (XB1)qcevolution

[Djego27]

On 8.10.2017 at 7:05 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

stuff

Well your complained was that you got triggered by me labelling WoF as effortless AOE play for lower levels and where upset that I did not include CC and you do not like boring games where you have not much to do as a player. Now you state there is no problem with WoF, what leaves me kind of confused. At the same time I do not see the big the reason why people can not handle the word nerf in online games, even if in many situations a simply nerf would be the most sensible solution to fix problems in games.

The problem with "make it less powerful or make it only affect enemies already proced" leaves open why to even change it, what it should do, at what range and basically everything that could help another player to see your point, even worse for somebody in front of a database.  

Fire ball does proc fire on direct hit, 100% guaranteed, it is only the AOE what is chance based. I am not bothered by the animation, even seeing it all day long, but that is highly subjective and has little if anything to do with game balance. I would suggest to actually take your Ember and play a bit at L80+ solo, you will see the benefit and use of fire ball very quickly there. Once you get used to it you can also try Saryn for the same and you will actually notice that something is missing, one thing I did mention a lot, unfortunately as the only person here on the forums.

The reason why spectral scream and Iron jab are pointless is mostly because the frames do not really CC for any kind of content people normally play. While the first abilities are not useful for damage at lower levels, most of them have a utility that is handy at higher levels, assuming people play the frame there solo and notice that. Fire ball, like quite a few weapons(like the Statior), uses a projectile that can head shot(same as grenades from launchers can if you hit the head, however like with the penta they only do minor impact damage) the AOE on impact however is not a guaranteed head shot(given that the AOE also did hit the head, every explosion was considered a head shot with explosives for a long time).

On 8.10.2017 at 8:49 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Your putting too much effort into trying to lable warframe as only a 3rd person shooter. If it can even be labled so. Most shooters (first or third) dont allow you to make every enemy in a radius around you stand still to get shot at your leisure. The reason the amprex is a viable option if Ember gets nerfed in a so called "3rd person shooter" is because the game is more heavily focused on loot chasing and grinding for gear. While you can go into a mission with sole purpose of shooting and having fun, its not on everyones agenda. I personally go everywhere with a secura penta. Clears trash mobs tmjust fine, and the aoe explosion of radiation does the job too. The mission is an ends to a mean, that mean being the gear you can obtain. And since every exterminate, and every excavation mission is the same, and warframe is full of clunky mwvmchanics and cheese options, your only going out of your way to make the game feel a certain way when you try to look at it as a shooter. Its too much to just be labled that.

Well it is a 3. person shooter, with some some super powers(then again destiny and division got them as well, while being a bit more tame with the mechanics). Since you stated you also to play the game a few years ago, what is even your motivation for the grind in the game?  There is no content for that gear, there is nothing what would reward playing good(since the void key changes and focus changes it literally gives no benefit to play to higher levels) and new frames/weapons are mostly interchangeable in just being better then the stuff before, while the stuff you have already makes the game incredible easy.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

33 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

Well your complained was that you got triggered by me labelling WoF as effortless AOE play for lower levels and where upset that I did not include CC and you do not like boring games where you have not much to do as a player. Now you state there is no problem with WoF, what leaves me kind of confused. At the same time I do not see the big the reason why people can not handle the word nerf in online games, even if in many situations a simply nerf would be the most sensible solution to fix problems in games.

The problem with "make it less powerful or make it only affect enemies already proced" leaves open why to even change it, what it should do, at what range and basically everything that could help another player to see your point, even worse for somebody in front of a database.  

Fire ball does proc fire on direct hit, 100% guaranteed, it is only the AOE what is chance based. I am not bothered by the animation, even seeing it all day long, but that is highly subjective and has little if anything to do with game balance. I would suggest to actually take your Ember and play a bit at L80+ solo, you will see the benefit and use of fire ball very quickly there. Once you get used to it you can also try Saryn for the same and you will actually notice that something is missing, one thing I did mention a lot, unfortunately as the only person here on the forums.

The reason why spectral scream and Iron jab are pointless is mostly because the frames do not really CC for any kind of content people normally play. While the first abilities are not useful for damage at lower levels, most of them have a utility that is handy at higher levels, assuming people play the frame there solo and notice that. Fire ball, like quite a few weapons(like the Statior), uses a projectile that can head shot(same as grenades from launchers can if you hit the head, however like with the penta they only do minor impact damage) the AOE on impact however is not a guaranteed head shot(given that the AOE also did hit the head, every explosion was considered a head shot with explosives for a long time).

Well it is a 3. person shooter, with some some super powers(then again destiny and division got them as well, while being a bit more tame with the mechanics). Since you stated you also to play the game a few years ago, what is even your motivation for the grind in the game?  There is no content for that gear, there is nothing what would reward playing good(since the void key changes and focus changes it literally gives no benefit to play to higher levels) and new frames/weapons are mostly interchangeable in just being better then the stuff before, while the stuff you have already makes the game incredible easy.

Stuff...you didnt read did you?

The answer is not more cc.

Also, i dont understand where you are getting this confused idea from that i was triggered or think nothing is wrong with WoF. Scaling damage, that doesnt affect or work as well against trash mobs is the magical solution. Wof affecting enemies hit with fire procs, is one solution, because trash mobs wont survive most initial attacks that would end up proccing those flames.

Ill continue explaining why fire ball would benefit from some changes, especially if you continue assuming i havnt used the ability. You also arent taking my suggestions seriously, making it sound like i dont know how she works, when in reality im suggesting changes based on what is probably being taken away and whats hopefully being added to account for those losses. 

And nerf or not, WoF being the only thing changed in her kit, and it being reduced down in effectiveness, is not an acceptable idea. And of course, again ill suggest other things. Your animosity is not welcome. Ill take your 5 % idea for Wof into consideration, and make more suggestions.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Its just hard to take fireball as an ability seriously when you have played delson in infamous, or really any lack luster ability in warframe seriously, when you have played any infamous character. Its not about damage. Its about the horrible mechanics amd the idea warframe seems to support that these abilities are actually worth all the drawbacks they present or worth taking energy away from the rest of your kit and actually useful abilities. 

[Almagnus1]

12 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Oh, also, some people want to enjoy the mission. But thats a flawed argument as well. Or flawed veiw. Ember or no Ember, the only way im spending 20 minutes in a mission is if its endless. Theres no Godly reason why i would entertain someone who wanted to frolic around looking at the same tileset, on the same map, thats been here for years. 

I mean, if DE is going to give us random alerts (especially lowby alerts) with useful stuff like Oxium, Nitain, and Orokin cells (which I always seem to be short on for Lotus knows why), we're always going to have this issue in some form, whether it be on Ember or not.

 

[Djego27]

On 8.10.2017 at 8:50 PM, (Xbox One)qcevolution said:

Warframe is an amazing game. There’s soooooo many options and ways to play it. But one of the biggest draws for me is the frames themselves and their power sets. How u craft entire builds around them and their weaponry is secondary. It’s what separates this game from games like destiny. Where yes, u have characters classes and powers but they really only makes a difference once every 5mins or so. The rest of the time is spent shooting weapons that tend to all feel the same. Meanwhile in this game I can hop into parallel dimensions, set enemies ablaze, give them the plague, mind control armies, raise the dead, or even b a freaking puddle. It’s just more fun. Warframe is a blast to play. 

And as an aside I chose the amprex out of efficiency. U can Mow down hordes with it faster than most of the highest tier weapons n the game can kill one enemy and this can go to pretty high level stuff. Once the damage tapers off at extremely high levels the weapon is still relevant cuz it has extremely high status chance. For me it has nothing to do with my kill count tho, We are all on the same team and I get nothing for having the most kills. It’s just quick and efficient. I have no problems with non meta builds and weapons. In fact one of my favorites is my 4forma embolist. It’s fun. That said it’s not gonna keep up with someone’s akstiletto prime. So I just play aware of this and accept what it is. 

It is the illusion of choice, not really a real choice as it is today. Also the ability to craft weapons around frames doesn't really matter today, given that there is no real content for that with newer frames/weapons and hardly see people in the game that utilize that even in sortis, while there is no shortage of people that think it is a good idea to use a fire quake Ember with a Ignis for L100 sortis.

The amprex is hardly a effective weapon, at least in my definition of "pretty high level", it is just incredible easy to use.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, Djego27 said:

Well it is a 3. person shooter, with some some super powers(then again destiny and division got them as well, while being a bit more tame with the mechanics). Since you stated you also to play the game a few years ago, what is even your motivation for the grind in the game?  There is no content for that gear, there is nothing what would reward playing good(since the void key changes and focus changes it literally gives no benefit to play to higher levels) and new frames/weapons are mostly interchangeable in just being better then the stuff before, while the stuff you have already makes the game incredible easy.

The motivation for the grind is not motivation at all. While i do load up warframe every now and then, and i play with the goal in mind of getting some object or another i havnt gotten yet, im just fooling around, trying to keep in touch with the game until i find it interesting again/ Poe. This game is rough when youve gone months not playing at all. Of course im going to work to get the primes. Theres a ridiculous prime vault, and i dont know when DE will pull something out theyve put into it, but theres no reason not to get the parts while they are available. But the missions themselves, and tile sets they are on are the same iv been looking at all this time with a few exceptions over time. No reason to lolly gag around the same space over and over again. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[Djego27]

On 8.10.2017 at 10:40 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Stuff...you didnt read did you?

Also, i dont understand where you are getting this confused idea from that i was triggered or think nothing is wrong with WoF. Scaling damage, that doesnt affect or work as well against trash mobs is the magical solution. Wof affecting enemies hit with fire procs, is one solution, because trash mobs wont survive most initial attacks that would end up proccing those flames.

Ill continue explaining why fire ball would benefit from some changes, especially if you continue assuming i havnt used the ability. You also arent taking my suggestions seriously, making it sound like i dont know how she works, when in reality im suggesting changes based on what is probably being taken away and whats hopefully being added to account for those losses. 

And nerf or not, WoF being the only thing changed in her kit, and it being reduced down in effectiveness, is not an acceptable idea. And of course, again ill suggest other things. Your animosity is not welcome. Ill take your 5 % idea for Wof into consideration, and make more suggestions.

I did read everything, I just shorten the quote.

Linear level depending scaling damage is certainly not the magic solution as soon as you discuss actual numbers.

WoF just affecting targets with fire procs on them is also incredible easy to exploit, given that most of the weapons that are good on the frame do actually just that.

I do not doubt you have not used fireball before you made your suggestion. What I doubt is that you actually appreciate basic stuff like fireball or other abilities like that, because you do not put your frame into a situation where you actually need it. Removing the cast delay or charging it does add little to the ability from my experience. If you stand in front of a L100 tech in solo sortis you have 2 options during reloading, one is pressing 1 and hit it, the other is pressing the revive button on Ember.

I am not sure where I left the impression that I am animosity towards you. The only thing that I would like is that you decide if you want to see a change on WoF, why you would like to see a change, what exactly it should accomplish and how exactly it should look like with a full run down on numbers and mechanics.

The only people that benefit from the current WoF damage are the people farming on the star map and that do not want to use weapons(what is bizarre given they play a damage frame that scales mostly from weapon damage), not even newer players given that they do not have the mods to perma run it. The damage does not have a significant impact at higher levels, both for the fire quake builds as well as weapon damage orientated builds like mine. I play the frame every day and have no issues suggesting a nerf to WoF, since the nerf is directly targeted at a problem what I see on the star map with the frame, it does not really affect anybody that wants to play the full frame instead of just WoF and the 5% is a decent amount of extra damage for newer players without a big impact on older players.

 

On 8.10.2017 at 10:56 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Its just hard to take fireball as an ability seriously when you have played delson in infamous, or really any lack luster ability in warframe seriously, when you have played any infamous character. Its not about damage. Its about the horrible mechanics amd the idea warframe seems to support that these abilities are actually worth all the drawbacks they present or worth taking energy away from the rest of your kit and actually useful abilities. 

I did not play any Infamous games, however I am still certain that you will get much more appreciation for the way fireball and most of the other 1. skills work if you just take your time and solo a bit at higher levels, where they do actually very often save you from pressing the revive button if used correctly.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, Djego27 said:

I did read everything, I just shorten the quote.

Linear level depending scaling damage is certainly not the magic solution as soon as you discuss actual numbers.

WoF just affecting targets with fire procs on them is also incredible easy to exploit, given that most of the weapons that are good on the frame do actually just that.

I do not doubt you have not used fireball before you made your suggestion. What I doubt is that you actually appreciate basic stuff like fireball or other abilities like that, because you do not put your frame into a situation where you actually need it. Removing the cast delay or charging it does add little to the ability from my experience. If you stand in front of a L100 tech in solo sortis you have 2 options during reloading, one is pressing 1 and hit it, the other is pressing the revive button on Ember.

I am not sure where I left the impression that I am animosity towards you. The only thing that I would like is that you decide if you want to see a change on WoF, why you would like to see a change, what exactly it should accomplish and how exactly it should look like with a full run down on numbers and mechanics.

The only people that benefit from the current WoF damage are the people farming on the star map and that do not want to use weapons(what is bizarre given they play a damage frame that scales mostly from weapon damage), not even newer players given that they do not have the mods to perma run it. The damage does not have a significant impact at higher levels, both for the fire quake builds as well as weapon damage orientated builds like mine. I play the frame every day and have no issues suggesting a nerf to WoF, since the nerf is directly targeted at a problem what I see on the star map with the frame, it does not really affect anybody that wants to play the full frame instead of just WoF and the 5% is a decent amount of extra damage for newer players without a big impact on older players.

 

I did not play any Infamous games, however I am still certain that you will get much more appreciation for the way fireball and most of the other 1. skills work if you just take your time and solo a bit at higher levels, where they do actually very often save you from pressing the revive button if used correctly.

My posts arent the best they could be...if you get a chance, play it, but its not warframe. I think if you can make your rework idea for wof into a post, youll get a fair amount of support, im just saying id appreciate the other abilities getting a polish...

To randomly talk about my idea: It doesnt matter about what weapons proc fire, for the most part for Wof, if its a line of sight ability. It would be Los if it relies on you shooting stuff....theres things that will allow you to still hit through walls, but not enough to make it work the way it does now. Its one idea. 

If making suggestions for a frame, if it works to do one ability at a time for you, i wont argue, but i like putting it all out at once. 

I try to keep from bringing up other games here, as this is warframe, but here...here im just saying i know what you are trying to say. I appreciate sonic boom. I appreciate tempest barrage. I appreciate those abilities that have interesting mechanics and accomplish something useful for me...Fire ball may be something useful in some situations, but as is, its not for me. For one, i spend too much time flipping around and parkouring with Ember to worry about fire ball. Fire blast, accelerant, wof, and weapons. Fire ball does too little for me to appreciate it. As i was saying, it cant compare to a penta that also does fire damage. While reloading, im parkouring, moving, casting fire blast if i need it. Fire ball doesnt fit my playstyle, and thats not a crime. Not saying it needs to. Just giving ideas.

Edited October 9, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO