New Player, Initial Thoughts

[Bakercompany86]

TL:DR - Great game, well made.  Some issues, but this is a beta =)

 

Figured with  most people posting here being veterans, this would be a good spot to drop some of my thoughts about my first 48 hours with Warframe.

 

Through the weekend I completed the Mercury string of missions, completely solo.  I haven't grouped with a single human yet.

 

First impression, the gameplay is excellent.  This game controls very well with a few minor issues that can be chalked up to personal preference.  This game controls almost exactly like Mass Effect 3, and that's certainly not a bad thing.  I had no problem adjusting to the controls very quickly and learning how to move my Warframe with great ability.

 

The wall running, parkour, and other agility based moves are excellent.  I feel very mobile and as agile as a highly advanced warframe should be.

 

Enemy AI seems to be decent, which is an area games like this struggle.  AI can always be improved, but for the first handful of missions they did not disappoint.  They certainly are accurate....like...they never miss....  Which leads to a couple cheap deaths here and there, but nothing that can't be avoided.

 

One thing I found frustrating, is that on certain angles your character greatly obstructs the camera.  You do not turn transparent when your own character is blocking your view.  This definitely needs to change.  Please make your character transparent when aiming and backed into a corner, for example.  This was a bit frustrating.

 

 

Another note on AI.  Escort AI is some of the worst I've seen.  Take all the horror stories of escort AI miffing things up, and lump them in to your AI.  Standing directly in the way, directly out of cover and in the line of fire, standing in between you and enemies without flinching.....Please change this.  An escort would be smart enough to stay low and out of the way while you lead them to safety.  Amazingly enough, I was able to complete that mission.  But the Escort AI leaves a lot to be desired.

 

So far my experience with the weapons was a pleasant one.  The seamless use of switching from melee to ranged is easy and fluid, and I love it.  I felt melee was always a viable option, and I love the stealth kills.  I need to get better at stealth however, as alarms raise the difficulty for my WF (Loki) greatly.

 

 

Starting weapons, I'd like to see a little more diversity.  Please give new players a couple different primary weapons to choose from, even if they're extremely basic.  How about a sniper rifle, shotgun, and assault rifle to choose from?  My pistol was awesome, and is my go to weapon (I don't use the assault rifle at all).  Also, please remove the advancing melee strikes.  Very frustrating to have my character lunge past my target even though I had a great strike lined up.  Just a thought.  I do like the mods, and mod fusions.  I'm going to beat a dead horse here, but would it be too much to ask for some attachment options on weapons?  A silencer for some weapons would be a godsend, maybe a scope (for FPS aiming and increased zoom) on other weapons.  Laser sights for easy hip aiming, etc.  Maybe that's not your vision, and if that's the case I completely understand.  But in a world of stealth Warframe action, why do they not have silenced weapons?

 

 

Stealth detection from enemies seems a bit sketchy at times.  Perhaps some sort of indicator (other than their backs turned to you) might help clear up what they can and cannot see.  Also, please make the flashlight able to be toggled on and off (or just give us night vision and eliminate it).

 

Level structure seems good.  I know i'm only in one area against one enemy, but the areas didn't disappoint.  I'd like to see more of an open sandbox with multiple objectives to achieve and lots of things to do within a given mission.  Areas where you'll defend against waves, partial escort areas, disable this/that areas, etc.  Mix up the objectives and put many within a given sandbox level.  Perhaps this exists in later levels and I'm just not there yet, again these are initial opinions from a fresh player.

 

This game has an excellent foundation and is well made.  I feel like you really have something fantastic here that I'd like to sink my dollars into to help support you.  I will certainly continue to play and see what you've really put into this game.  I hear a lot of players complaining about the new difficulty.  Levels should scale by player count, not a static difficulty.  Solo should *always* be viable, if you want to reach the maximum amount of different players as possible.

 

In games like this, I feel diversity is a key element for the continued longevity of your work.  With the new feel and awesome gameplay, this game is very fun.  However even within the first 6 missions I already began to feel a sense of repetitive motion, going through things over and over again.  This is why I suggested bigger sandboxes with more options and more objectives.  Just my initial thoughts =)

 

 

[PsychedelicSnake]

TL:DR - Great game, well made.  Some issues, but this is a beta =)

 

Faith in the fanbase RESTORED

[Bakercompany86]

Faith in the fanbase RESTORED

 

 

It's actually really good for still being in beta, in my humble opinion.  A few things here and there, but I can't imagine the amount of work that went into this game.

 

I'd love to know the developers original vision for this game, and how they feel on their progress so far.  As well as their reaction to the community feedback (not the trolls).

[Shion963]

I was going to ready the "please go past first page of Market for BPs".... but instead there was a good, polite writeup of opinions. Huh...

Are you sure you're a new player? ;p

 

On to the points:

IMHO strapping the players with a Braton Mk-I is a good thing, because the game's Mastery system encourages players to try and play with all the weapons. Giving that option would undermine the Mastery system as you'll just stick to shotguns/snipers/what-have-you from the get-go, and would be reluctant to try other stuff out.

 

I recently finished ranking the Braton Mk-I to max rank recently, and found that I was didn't want to sell off this 'bad newb weapon'. But then again, I have many many powerful mods at my disposal to turn any weapon to killers, something that new players could go most of the game without.

 

Stealth is the massive invisible pink rhino inside a display case smack dab in center of the room. It's there. Some people claim to be able to see it from the way light scattering/distortion. It's not useful most of the time, but it's there. There were talks of improving stealth, but as of now it seems to be a work-in-progress (adding more idle animations, hackable consoles that reduces alarm level, giving a cooldown on enemy alertness). For now it's more of a hack-slash-gun game.

 

Silent weapons are in the game, varying from total-stealth (bows, kunai, shuriken, needlegun), and 'partially-silent' guns that have a distance where enemies can hear the gunshots (Latron comes to mind).

 

Mission objectives: Sometimes the game would randomly change the objective once you've entered it (sabotage > exterminate), or assign a secondary objective once you've carried out the first (telling you to collect 4 datamass pieces after capturing a VIP).

 

The levels are randomly generated by piecing together Tiles, and there are tilesets with large open areas (notably in the Corpus Outpost). But no 'truely open' area to speak of.

 

The game's difficulty level got a recent ramping up, and there are concerns of what it'll be like for new players. There are older players say that it's difficult to go far while playing solo. But if there's one thing I learned from past updates is that DE seems to tweak in extremes. A weapon could be vastly superior at launch, get nerfed to the ground on the next update, and then tweaked to a comfortably good state the update after that.

 

I'd love to know the developers original vision for this game, and how they feel on their progress so far.  As well as their reaction to the community feedback (not the trolls).

Here's an interesting article on the game's origins: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/11685-closing-our-psychic-wound-warframe-development-history/

 

From what I've heard on the livestreams, the devs initially intended to just make a co-op PvE game, more for pick-up games with good action and zero lore. Most of the game's early focus was on adding new equipment, new areas, new mechanics (wallrun). But then it took off really well, and people began to ask about lore, story mode, better UI.

 

The DEv team for the most part is receptive to community feedback about recent additions and changes, and large glaring issues are usually quickly resolved once brought to their attention.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Shion963

[Bakercompany86]

I was going to ready the "please go past first page of Market for BPs".... but instead there was a good, polite writeup of opinions. Huh...

Are you sure you're a new player? ;p

 

Very much so.  I've maybe ran about....7 missions? Ish?

 

On to the points:

IMHO strapping the players with a Braton Mk-I is a good thing, because the game's Mastery system encourages players to try and play with all the weapons. Giving that option would undermine the Mastery system as you'll just stick to shotguns/snipers/what-have-you from the get-go, and would be reluctant to try other stuff out.

 

I definitely think the Braton Mk-I is a fine weapon.  I've just never been an assault rifle guy (mostly).  Perhaps when I mod it to extremes I'll like it even more.  It's less of a "poor weapon" thing and more of a "player preference" thing.

 

 

 

 

Stealth is the massive invisible pink rhino inside a display case smack dab in center of the room. It's there. Some people claim to be able to see it from the way light scattering/distortion. It's not useful most of the time, but it's there. There were talks of improving stealth, but as of now it seems to be a work-in-progress (adding more idle animations, hackable consoles that reduces alarm level, giving a cooldown on enemy alertness). For now it's more of a hack-slash-gun game.

 

I just finished watching a few videos of a player completeing several of the Mercury missions without being detected at all.  I'm not entirely sure if every mission can or should be played this way, but it's neat to see it as a valid option.  Perhaps they could do the Ghost Recon thing, and make some missions half and half.  Half stealth *required* where you fail if detected, and the other half stealthable, but not necessary.  Again, not experienced enough within the game to fully speak on this.

 

 

Silent weapons are in the game, varying from total-stealth (bows, kunai, shuriken, needlegun), and 'partially-silent' guns that have a distance where enemies can hear the gunshots (Latron comes to mind).

 

I would definitely like to try out the bow.  Seems to be up my alley.  I'm always a gun modder type guy.  I love being able to pick and choose attachments to customize my experience.  This is quite possibly not at all like the vision the developer has for this game, and I can completely understand that.  Just thoughts =)

 

 

Mission objectives: Sometimes the game would randomly change the objective once you've entered it (sabotage > exterminate), or assign a secondary objective once you've carried out the first (telling you to collect 4 datamass pieces after capturing a VIP).

 

This is good to know.  Making things more variable and dynamic, keeps people interested for the long haul.  I didn't know that stages were randomized, which is really good to know.  I replayed one mission once or twice, and I could have sworn it changed on me.  This clears that up, thank you!  I'm also a fan of larger sandbox levels that aren't as linear.  Dishonored did a really good job of this I think, and would be a good platform to snatch a few ideas from.

 

 

 

The game's difficulty level got a recent ramping up, and there are concerns of what it'll be like for new players. There are older players say that it's difficult to go far while playing solo. But if there's one thing I learned from past updates is that DE seems to tweak in extremes. A weapon could be vastly superior at launch, get nerfed to the ground on the next update, and then tweaked to a comfortably good state the update after that.

 

This seems to be common with betas that are almost entirely new ventures.  When you don't have a basis of comparison, you'll do whatever it takes to find that balance.  I'm completely okay with extreme changes because I know the developers have a reason to try it out (stats, heat maps, things we never see as players).  I also know there isn't some evil developer sitting back in a chair saying "Nerf this to make them miserable MUAHAHAHA!".

 

Thanks for your input!


EDIT:  HTML Fail

Edited July 23, 2013 by Bakercompany86

[Shion963]

This seems to be common with betas that are almost entirely new ventures.  When you don't have a basis of comparison, you'll do whatever it takes to find that balance.  I'm completely okay with extreme changes because I know the developers have a reason to try it out (stats, heat maps, things we never see as players).  I also know there isn't some evil developer sitting back in a chair saying "Nerf this to make them miserable MUAHAHAHA!".

 

It's mature, reasonable words like these that makes me doubt you as a new player. Since most "I am a new player this is what I think" threads I've seen tend to lean towards "THIS IS A BAD P2W GAME AND I HATE IT, WAA". ;p

 

Here's more interesting reading on how the game generates its levels: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/26/gdc-2013-the-ai-tricks-behind-xcom-assassins-creed-3-and-warframe/

 

On the weapon preference, I find that Warframe does it right.  It gives me reason to try out other weapons, even if currently it's all for the sake of Mastery Ranks. (FYI you gain mastery xp from ranking up equipment, where each rank gained on a Warframe gives 200 mastery xp, and each rank on a weapon grants 100 xp)

 

I personally won't touch shotguns and assault rifles at all when playing most games, preferrring to stick to snipers and other 'accurate' weapons. But the BOAR was one of the most fun weapons I've ever played with, even if it's consider inferior to other shotguns in Warframe (which I have also played for the sake of mastery).

[VScipii26]

I definitely think the Braton Mk-I is a fine weapon.  I've just never been an assault rifle guy (mostly).  Perhaps when I mod it to extremes I'll like it even more.  It's less of a "poor weapon" thing and more of a "player preference" thing.

 

I just finished watching a few videos of a player completeing several of the Mercury missions without being detected at all.  I'm not entirely sure if every mission can or should be played this way, but it's neat to see it as a valid option.  Perhaps they could do the Ghost Recon thing, and make some missions half and half.  Half stealth *required* where you fail if detected, and the other half stealthable, but not necessary.  Again, not experienced enough within the game to fully speak on this.

 

I would definitely like to try out the bow.  Seems to be up my alley.  I'm always a gun modder type guy.  I love being able to pick and choose attachments to customize my experience.  This is quite possibly not at all like the vision the developer has for this game, and I can completely understand that.  Just thoughts =)

 

This is good to know.  Making things more variable and dynamic, keeps people interested for the long haul.  I didn't know that stages were randomized, which is really good to know.  I replayed one mission once or twice, and I could have sworn it changed on me.  This clears that up, thank you!  I'm also a fan of larger sandbox levels that aren't as linear.  Dishonored did a really good job of this I think, and would be a good platform to snatch a few ideas from.

 

Yes, player preferences as a lot to do with it.I have friends who are die-hard snipers and Latron users, but you'll see me sprint in as a solid pink Rhino with an automatic shotgun, with dual shotguns as my secondary. THe problem with giving players multiple loadout options at the beginning would be the current lack of weapon that they could use. There's only three real snipers out, and even the worst one of them all would trivialize much of the early game content, and the only shotgun a new player has access to would do that even more.

Stealth, yes, you're definitely not experienced enough to speak on it.

I've tried stealth at later levels, but the thing is that it only takes a brief second of an enemy seeing you for the whole ship to go nuts and start bringing in everything and everyone with a gun or pointy stick. It needs many, many reworks. You saw a video of them doing it on Mercury, where I could just as easily walk backwards through the whole mission and let my sentinel do all the damage.

The bows are...alright. They have their niche, but you'll find that they're lacking when there's 15 crawlers, 6 runners, and 7 leapers rushing you. Stealth needs a true rework very badly. I may be the shotgun guy, but I love the irony of getting a stealth kill with a greataxe.

You'll find the second objectives to be more annoying than entertaining later on.

Why?

"You found the hostage. Escort him to extraction."

"Change of plans. There's a hostage on this ship."

Double escort mission!

Or even better.

"That's the last piece of intel. Get to extraction."

"Change of plans. Kill everyone."

The one good randomizing factor is when a second faction enters the mission. But Corpus wrecks everyone, so whatever.

All in all, it's good to see that new players have a good first few missions, but right now mid and high end content is what needs the buckets of turtle wax. The low level content, like stealth, will be affected at the same time.

Now have another well worded topic like this ready for when you finish your next planet.

[Bakercompany86]

 

It's mature, reasonable words like these that makes me doubt you as a new player. Since most "I am a new player this is what I think" threads I've seen tend to lean towards "THIS IS A BAD P2W GAME AND I HATE IT, WAA". ;p

 

Thank you =)  I've been a gamer for a very long time.  I've taken part in many betas both closed and open.  Every single game I play that I enjoy enough to consider it in my lineup, I take part in the forum communities.  Betas like this NEED players like you and I.  I know for a fact that devs skip over troll threads and comments and search for the well written and thought out feedback (while the admins close the troll topics).  Thus, I sincerely try to give the best feedback possible.  If for nothing else, it's because I enjoy the game so much that I want to see it shaped into something truly great that will stand the test of time.

 

In addition to that it helps all gamers and more importantly, their future.  If we support developers who release quality product, listen to the feedback and adapt their game accordingly, we all help guarantee future greatness so we will always have great games to play.

 

 

Stealth, yes, you're definitely not experienced enough to speak on it.

I've tried stealth at later levels, but the thing is that it only takes a brief second of an enemy seeing you for the whole ship to go nuts and start bringing in everything and everyone with a gun or pointy stick. It needs many, many reworks. You saw a video of them doing it on Mercury, where I could just as easily walk backwards through the whole mission and let my sentinel do all the damage.  <------- SLASH END QUOTE

 

 

That's what I was afraid of.  There is definitely an art to balancing stealth gameplay with run and gun.  It's very hard to do from what I can tell.  Dishonored, Ghost Recon, Metro: Last Light are 3 examples (in my opinion) of games that really nailed it.  This just means I will have to play the mess out of this game and submit feedback =)  Thankfully I chose the Loki, so I will try to stealth as often as possible.

 

 

 

 

You'll find the second objectives to be more annoying than entertaining later on.

Why?

"You found the hostage. Escort him to extraction."

"Change of plans. There's a hostage on this ship."

Double escort mission!

Or even better.

"That's the last piece of intel. Get to extraction."

"Change of plans. Kill everyone."<------- SLASH END QUOTE

 

 

This I can see as very frustrating.  While I am very glad they're incorporating dynamic mission objectives, it must be implemented well.  The good news is, this is a simple fix from my understanding of programming (if/or/else statements).  Escort missions should obviously never be lumped in with "kill everything" objectives, or vice versa.  Again I need to play more to experience these things.  I'll be sure to submit feedback accordingly.

 

 

 

Now have another well worded topic like this ready for when you finish your next planet.

You can look forward (or dread) many more write ups similar to this.  Doing my part as a beta tester =)  Standby....

 

 

EDIT:  Another HTML fail...  Can't seem to get quotes to cooperate.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Bakercompany86

[NovusNiveus]

Welcome to the galaxy's quintessential space ninja simulator.

 

Personally I find the joy of this game is trying out all of the different gear and figuring out how to use every single one of the 90+ weapons in effective ways. Unless you're playing the serious top-end content (Tier 3 Void missions and Endless Defense) you can use whatever you please and have a good time perforating people.

 

The real meat of the game is in crafting your equipment, and there's nothing like going into a mission for the first time with a weapon you 'built' yourself. If you're into games that have a metric ****load of different and interesting gear, you're in for a good time.

 

Additionally, if you feel up for some co-op, there are plenty of folks around here (myself included) who would be happy to jump in a game with you. I can't get my head around the stealth mechanics in this game, (mostly because they aren't finished yet) but I'm not the type to rush to the objective and on to the exit - I like a chill experience, I like to kill ridiculous numbers of enemies and I like to open every container I see.

 

You sound like a cool guy, so drop a friend request if you'd like to run some missions.

 

Enjoy the game!

[Pendragon1951]

First of all welcome to Warframe, I'm glad your enjoying the game so far. As you play longer you will run into things that you will love and absolutely hate, but I think that is the nature of any game. Also as you progress you will find that different Frames have varied uses depending on your play style. I think you have noticed that Loki is very fast, while other Frames like Rhino can be ponderously slow. AOE will also have an effect on your play style, but all this you will enjoy discovering as you play, once again welcome to Warframe.

[Bakercompany86]

Thank you guys.  When I get home I'll toss some friend invites out.  I'm yet to group up, part of my "new game" routine.  Learn it, then group up =)

 

I definitely have a firm grasp on the gameplay enough to feel comfortable.

 

So far my gameplay approach is to stealth as much as possible, and then blast my way out once discovered.

 

The Loki is very fast, and what I didn't notice but a friend pointed out to me today also very squishy.  It's the only WF I've used, so I have no basis of comparison.  I have a lot of playing to do....

 

I hope they fix the stealth mechanics.  I love games that have more than one solid option for completing a mission.  Plus on the "kill everything" missions I think it would be really neat to see complete mission clears without raising alarms.

 

As far as AOE is concerned, the melee weapon I had set my eyes on was the dual ended Polearm (pardon me for forgetting the name).  I plan on experimenting with many types of weapon loadouts and warframes.

[Xylia]

Thank you guys.  When I get home I'll toss some friend invites out.  I'm yet to group up, part of my "new game" routine.  Learn it, then group up =)

 

I definitely have a firm grasp on the gameplay enough to feel comfortable.

 

So far my gameplay approach is to stealth as much as possible, and then blast my way out once discovered.

 

The Loki is very fast, and what I didn't notice but a friend pointed out to me today also very squishy.  It's the only WF I've used, so I have no basis of comparison.  I have a lot of playing to do....

 

I hope they fix the stealth mechanics.  I love games that have more than one solid option for completing a mission.  Plus on the "kill everything" missions I think it would be really neat to see complete mission clears without raising alarms.

 

As far as AOE is concerned, the melee weapon I had set my eyes on was the dual ended Polearm (pardon me for forgetting the name).  I plan on experimenting with many types of weapon loadouts and warframes.

 

If you want a bit of direction, check the Players Helping Players forum, I have a stickied post there aimed at newbies who aren't sure what to do next.

 

That Polearm is an excellent choice and requires materials you'll find from the next planet (Venus). It is easily one of the best melee out there. Definitely worth looking into.

[Bakercompany86]

If you want a bit of direction, check the Players Helping Players forum, I have a stickied post there aimed at newbies who aren't sure what to do next.

 

That Polearm is an excellent choice and requires materials you'll find from the next planet (Venus). It is easily one of the best melee out there. Definitely worth looking into.

 

 

That excites me, thank you!  I'm headed to check out your post right this minute.  I really appreciate it, thanks again.