Unwritten Rules of Conclave

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

[WARNING]

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION - RELAX, DON'T GET UPSET, WE'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS.

 

I know this is going to be a sensitive subject for players, and I'll probably get some negative comments because I have unpopular opinions about this game and it's community. I welcome different opinions, but much of Warframe's community do not share the same appreciation for different views (unsurprisingly - not many people do). That said, lets get into the topic. Why is the community expected to follow these unwritten rules or they're considered toxic? How did these rules come to be? Some phony sense of honor vets have put in place to make themselves feel better about stomping casual and PvE players trying to climb through the ranks? Near everything they're against is widely accepted across many other PvP games. Kill stealing, AFK kills, abilities, casual play, farming, etc.

Some examples:

No stealing oro in FFA - Why? It's FFA. They're your opponents. It also adds more depth and challenge to the gameplay. But for whatever reason those who steal oro or kills are considered toxic.

No killing AFK or typing players - Why? That's the consequence of leaving your keyboard (or controller) during an ongoing match, or choosing to stop and type rather than play. Just use VOIP if you want to communicate and not get killed, the game does have it, despite it being neglected.

No using abilities excessively - This one isn't necessarily a rule that players follow, but something I see a lot of players complain about as if it's wrong to utilize your frames abilities when you can. Abilities are a huge part of the game in both PvE and PvP, and that's not changing anytime soon. I'm assuming people are against ability spam because they see abilities as a crutch and think PvP should be more focused on gunplay and movement. But abilities can be countered and everyone has there own abilities to utilize as well. I know impair and knockdown spam is annoying but it's fair play and easily avoidable.

No playing RC after 1K kills (I know, I'm going to get a lot of hate for this one) - If a player wants a more casual approach to PvP, so be it. Playing outside of RC is an undeniably competitive and sweaty experience and not every player that enjoys PvP is looking for that. This is why many games have separate casual and competitive playlists. Not everyone is looking at maxing out their potential skill in a game, some just enjoy playing. As long as we don't have a dedicated casual playlist, RC is as close as public matches will get for casual players. Yes, farming is a problem in RC and looked down upon, but there's farmers outside of RC as well that take advantage of low skilled players fresh out of RC. It's just how it works with the matchmaking system we have in this game with a huge skill gap. You'll always be matched with players far above you, far below you, and anywhere in between.

No farming - As stated above, players of all skill levels are put in the same match because of PvP's low playerbase and because we have no skill based matchmaking system. So it makes little sense to be against farming. There is always players better than you, worse than you, and more or less somewhere near your skill level in every match you'll play publicly. Unless you're top of the food chain, you'll potentially be stat fodder for someone far better than you. We all start out getting farmed by players who've invested more time into PvP than us, until we put in the time and gain enough skill to better defend ourselves, then we farm players under us until they put the time in to gain more skill better defend themselves, and so on. This is how it works. We have games where we destroy and other players are getting farmed, we have games where we get farmed and destroyed, and we have more less balanced matches every once in awhile. For the most part public matchmaking is a gamble. It just depends on the match.

 

Let me know your thoughts.

[Heckzu]

Conclave isn't very competitive for the most part. There is no player ranking system and personal K:D ratio is meaningless.

1 hour ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

No stealing oro in FFA - Why? It's FFA. They're your opponents. It also adds more depth and challenge to the gameplay. But for whatever reason those who steal oro or kills are considered toxic.

I don't think most Conclave regulars even care about Oro stealing.

1 hour ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

No killing AFK or typing players - Why? That's the consequence of leaving your keyboard (or controller) during an ongoing match, or choosing to stop and type rather than play. Just use VOIP if you want to communicate and not get killed, the game does have it, despite it being neglected.

"Just use VOIP". Ha. This is possibly the first time I've ever seen someone say that in Warframe.

There's no merit to killing an AFK player. You're not getting any better by hitting an AFK player, and in most cases that 1 Oro won't make a difference between winning and losing.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

No using abilities excessively

Many abilities are brain dead easy to use which makes them crutches. No one likes people who rely on crutches.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

No playing RC after 1K kills

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

Playing outside of RC is an undeniably competitive and sweaty experience and not every player that enjoys PvP is looking for that. This is why many games have separate casual and competitive playlists

Uhhhh...does it look like we have a competitive ranked mode? Out-of-RC is still "casual", it's just that some players have toned their skills so well that they require little to no effort to do the same things it takes less skilled players to pull off.

Regardless of what game it is, you can still get clubbed in 'Casual Mode'. Same applies to Conclave. But there's a huge difference between 'clubbing in casual' and 'clubbing in the newbie area'.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

there's farmers outside of RC as well that take advantage of low skilled players fresh out of RC.

There's no server browsing or anything like that, so how does someone explicitly take advantage of low skilled players fresh out of RC? They may fight Dragons of Teshin more often than newbies.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

No farming

Actual AFK standing farming is a bannable offense which is enforced by DE.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

6 hours ago, Heckzu said:

Conclave isn't very competitive for the most part. There is no player ranking system and personal K:D ratio is meaningless.

I don't think most Conclave regulars even care about Oro stealing.

"Just use VOIP". Ha. This is possibly the first time I've ever seen someone say that in Warframe.

There's no merit to killing an AFK player. You're not getting any better by hitting an AFK player, and in most cases that 1 Oro won't make a difference between winning and losing.

Many abilities are brain dead easy to use which makes them crutches. No one likes people who rely on crutches.

Uhhhh...does it look like we have a competitive ranked mode? Out-of-RC is still "casual", it's just that some players have toned their skills so well that they require little to no effort to do the same things it takes less skilled players to pull off.

Regardless of what game it is, you can still get clubbed in 'Casual Mode'. Same applies to Conclave. But there's a huge difference between 'clubbing in casual' and 'clubbing in the newbie area'.

There's no server browsing or anything like that, so how does someone explicitly take advantage of low skilled players fresh out of RC? They may fight Dragons of Teshin more often than newbies.

Actual AFK standing farming is a bannable offense which is enforced by DE.

Well, Conclave isn't meant to be competitive, it's an imbalanced mode with more casual aspects. However, many players who stick with it til they're good enough to play out of RC take it seriously and play competitively. The discord even holds tournaments. You can't tell me it's not an overly sweaty experience when PvE players are so put off by ranking up in Conclave because of the sweaty players that farm them (I was referring to PvE or more casual players when I said farming occurs outside of RC, there's MR10+ PvE players with PvP skills on par with MR2's - MR really means nothing in terms of skill)

I wouldn't have guessed that regulars don't care about oro/kill stealing. I constantly see players complaining about it in FFA.

I completely believe that I'm the first you've seen to suggest using VOIP in this game, lol.

As far as reasons to not kill an AFK player go, that's a decent enough one, I guess it's just not a common view in most other PvP games.

I've got no problem with people using crutches in a game that's meant to be casual. If it's a casual game who cares how people play it? But as I said, many players don't treat it as casually as I do. Most abilities are predictable and avoidable anyway ... If an excal is charging you, chances are he's going to try to impair you, if you even see a frost that's a dead giveaway that guy is going to camp and spam his bubble, if a rhino is becoming more aggressive he's probably got iron skin ready, etc. It's really only a crutch if you allow it to be. But that's just my take on it.

I never said we have a competitive playlist, and yeah non-RC is still casual itself, but most of the small playerbase is not.

some players have toned their skills so well that they require little to no effort to do the same things it takes less skilled players to pull off

Truthfully, that just sounds like a more dismissive way of saying they're sweaty.

I agree, you can get destroyed in casual mode in any game, but RC isn't exactly exclusively a noob area. Though meant to be. There's players of all skill levels in it. It's essentially non-RC with a wider skill gap. You'll see 2.0 K/D players as often as 0.50 K/D players, along with sprinkles of 2.5+ K/D players. And you'll see MR2-4's with PvP skills you'd expect from MR10's. Just because they're lower MR doesn't mean they're bad players. Some players are more naturally skilled than others or have more PvP experience prior to playing Warframe's PvP.

Players can easily take advantage of low skilled players outside of RC. You don't have an equal chance playing the dragons over noobs because noobs outnumber the dragons tenfold. You're always matched with players far above you in skill, far below, and anywhere in between, as I said before. Matches are usually filled with 1-2 dominant players, 1-2 decent players, and the rest being below decent.

So scoreboards tend to look something like this for example:

1st: 28-5

2nd: 24-7

3rd: 14-11

4th: 12-16

5th: 8-14

6th: 5-12

7th: 4-9

8th: 2-6

I'm not sure I've ever heard of a player banned for that. I rarely see DE ban players from PvP unless someone's blatantly hacking. They'd have to ban a decent chunk of the already small community if that rule was strictly enforced. But I suppose bans are more of the community's responsibility, because I don't expect DE to ban players unless they're being reported by others. I really don't see much of a problem with farming, though, because the way I see it near all of us get farmed at the start until we improve and can better defend ourselves, the game has a high skill gap it is what it is. As long as nobody is blatantly cheating nothing much bothers me in casual games. Cheating is just unacceptable in any PvP game.

[-Dice-]

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

I wouldn't have guessed that regulars don't care about oro/kill stealing. I constantly see players complaining about it in FFA.

I try playing with people better than me often, being in Oriental Asteri i am among best players in Asia so in skill term i am like RC player to them even if i can go in pub match and wipe the floor, but in our matches i never see them even try to go for Oro. If it floats to us than ok but if not then no one cares because kills matter more.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

I guess it's just not a common view in most other PvP games.

It is, i come from UT4 and no one will kill afk player as @Heckzu say there is no merit in it, also it is rude since there is sense of sportsmanship to a certain extent in every PvP game.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

I've got no problem with people using crutches in a game that's meant to be casual.

Spam of any kind is annoying especially when the spam is op and takes little to no effort. I can understand if its the only way unskilled player can manage to get kill among good player, i say nothing if that is case but it is not what i expect from people with aim. I only get upset if good players abuse ability(not like i say anything even then but i just target them more) but for other normal players all i say is "You will hold yourself back if you spam the 4 key and not use your aim", that is all.

You wonder why unskilled player stays unskilled? They use ability as it give easy kill here and now, but they don't think in long term so they are same as they were in day one, no improvement and the fault is on experienced players?

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

You'll see 2.0 K/D players

You're one of them, I find it funny how you say you are not good enough player so you stay inside RC but still get stomped sometimes and still have a k/d that is over 2.0, even i only have 1.6 k/d, because of players like you exploiting things k/d means nothing in term of skill, farm newpayers for high k/d. I get stomped, i get barely 1/1 k/d when i fight some in my clan, i rarely get positive k/d when fighting against CNC members in my clan.

You have a 2.0+ k/d and you play in RC among the new players, you can't claim to get stomped and even if you do then you clearly don't get stomped as often as you make it seem.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

Players can easily take advantage of low skilled players outside of RC.

If you are good enough to leave RC/have enough kills to leave RC then you're not new. Same way how you are not new, but as mentioned there is difference between killing people in newbie zone and people in normal zone. You will not face people playing their first match in normal zone. Playing against most in RC is like shooting afk players, because they mess around try things to see what does what and how things work, to get a sense of how things work, and you are going around killing those people among others who rather not face opponents who are equal to them or better so instead stay in newbie zone to feel mighty.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

put off by ranking up in Conclave because of the sweaty players that farm them

What exactly is being farmed, if player is around long enough to get good in Conclave then they have all rewards so clearly they do not care about rewards, similarly you are not ranking up to stay in mode meant for new players so you do not care about rewards either. It is deathmatch, you are against all so get most kills, it's wrong to try and do well? are we at fault here for performing as best as we can?

If you do not have the aim to counter good players then DE offers many imbalanced abilities in game with lot of energy for people to kill these good players with no effort, i remember getting kill from other side of wall along with 3 more people by frost 4, 4 people dead, full hp/shield to 0 with press of 1 button from other side of wall. So you can not say players are fully helpless. Many more frame out their that can do it, Nezha 4 can do it too but faster than frost.

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

I'm not sure I've ever heard of a player banned for that.

I do not know if they get account ban but i know they get reputation ban, i reported farmers before and i know DE took action because i get friend request from one of them with a note with very unkind words. You try defending the PvE players who farm but i have seen many PvE players be toxic and unkind to me than any PvP players since i started to play this game.

My experience so far is, PvE player say i hack or farm them or just acts blatantly rude(so i don't play public match much anymore) but PvP player help me understand how game works and even give me mods for PvP as well as a clan to belong in. So it is very difficult for me to understand why you are trying to defend toxic players who do not want to play but farm for rep.

Warframe is kind to such players if anything, in any other PvP game you get account ban no question asked for "farming", it is not uncommon in other game for people to "farm" which is called statistics padding and it is not uncommon for these players to lose their accounts. It is no different than fixing a match but only here you do not get paid.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

5 hours ago, -Dice- said:

I try playing with people better than me often, being in Oriental Asteri i am among best players in Asia so in skill term i am like RC player to them even if i can go in pub match and wipe the floor, but in our matches i never see them even try to go for Oro. If it floats to us than ok but if not then no one cares because kills matter more.

It is, i come from UT4 and no one will kill afk player as @Heckzu say there is no merit in it, also it is rude since there is sense of sportsmanship to a certain extent in every PvP game.

Spam of any kind is annoying especially when the spam is op and takes little to no effort. I can understand if its the only way unskilled player can manage to get kill among good player, i say nothing if that is case but it is not what i expect from people with aim. I only get upset if good players abuse ability(not like i say anything even then but i just target them more) but for other normal players all i say is "You will hold yourself back if you spam the 4 key and not use your aim", that is all.

You wonder why unskilled player stays unskilled? They use ability as it give easy kill here and now, but they don't think in long term so they are same as they were in day one, no improvement and the fault is on experienced players?

You're one of them, I find it funny how you say you are not good enough player so you stay inside RC but still get stomped sometimes and still have a k/d that is over 2.0, even i only have 1.6 k/d, because of players like you exploiting things k/d means nothing in term of skill, farm newpayers for high k/d. I get stomped, i get barely 1/1 k/d when i fight some in my clan, i rarely get positive k/d when fighting against CNC members in my clan.

You have a 2.0+ k/d and you play in RC among the new players, you can't claim to get stomped and even if you do then you clearly don't get stomped as often as you make it seem.

If you are good enough to leave RC/have enough kills to leave RC then you're not new. Same way how you are not new, but as mentioned there is difference between killing people in newbie zone and people in normal zone. You will not face people playing their first match in normal zone. Playing against most in RC is like shooting afk players, because they mess around try things to see what does what and how things work, to get a sense of how things work, and you are going around killing those people among others who rather not face opponents who are equal to them or better so instead stay in newbie zone to feel mighty.

What exactly is being farmed, if player is around long enough to get good in Conclave then they have all rewards so clearly they do not care about rewards, similarly you are not ranking up to stay in mode meant for new players so you do not care about rewards either. It is deathmatch, you are against all so get most kills, it's wrong to try and do well? are we at fault here for performing as best as we can?

If you do not have the aim to counter good players then DE offers many imbalanced abilities in game with lot of energy for people to kill these good players with no effort, i remember getting kill from other side of wall along with 3 more people by frost 4, 4 people dead, full hp/shield to 0 with press of 1 button from other side of wall. So you can not say players are fully helpless. Many more frame out their that can do it, Nezha 4 can do it too but faster than frost.

I do not know if they get account ban but i know they get reputation ban, i reported farmers before and i know DE took action because i get friend request from one of them with a note with very unkind words. You try defending the PvE players who farm but i have seen many PvE players be toxic and unkind to me than any PvP players since i started to play this game.

My experience so far is, PvE player say i hack or farm them or just acts blatantly rude(so i don't play public match much anymore) but PvP player help me understand how game works and even give me mods for PvP as well as a clan to belong in. So it is very difficult for me to understand why you are trying to defend toxic players who do not want to play but farm for rep.

Warframe is kind to such players if anything, in any other PvP game you get account ban no question asked for "farming", it is not uncommon in other game for people to "farm" which is called statistics padding and it is not uncommon for these players to lose their accounts. It is no different than fixing a match but only here you do not get paid.

You don't seem to have much to add other than your distaste for my actions in this game. Which I find sad considering it's only a casual game. And just a game at that.

The point of this post is to question why people (like you) feel the need to tell others how to play a video game. Just like the discussion with .Zel turned into on my last topic. Only difference is we stopped and we added each other in game and have no hard feelings. It's just a game, it's whatever. I don't understand why people care so passionately about something that's just supposed to be a fun past time. You're not getting paid you're just playing for fun yet people care so much about something they'll get nothing out of other than fun. I just don't play to be a top tier sweaty player. Trying hard in video games isn't what's fun to me. Just playing is fun to me. Something you don't seem to understand so you bash. Sorry I don't care about ranking up to get stupid skins and that sydana everyone worships, I guess.

Edited October 16, 2017 by ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

I think I'm just going to rank up, y'all are just making me feel bad at this point. I think I am toxic.

[Heckzu]

10 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

So scoreboards tend to look something like this for example:

...

I'm not sure I've ever heard of a player banned for that.

That's clubbing, not farming. There's a difference.

What I refer to by "AFK standing farming" are things like kill trading or win trading. And these are bannable offenses:

Spoiler

 

[----Legacy----]

On 15/10/2017 at 7:57 PM, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

No stealing oro in FFA

Without oro stealing, pros wouldn't be able to brag of getting 30+kills on a single match. Players getting toxic for it are most likely decent at aiming but struggle to get their oro quickly (hence they may also be struggling to get the 6 victories for the weekly rewards) 

On 15/10/2017 at 7:57 PM, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

No playing RC after 1K kills

One of the most common complains is the lack of skill based matchmaking, getting experienced and keep playing in RC to avoid being matched against "pros" just makes the issue more noticeable.