Ridiculous Nightmare Mode Conditions

[zerogear5]

This game needs a mini map taking it away is like playing a glitched map that cannot be won. Nightmare runs should still allow looting and having no radar makes that extremely hard even if you know where the rooms are.

[eStecko]

This game needs a mini map taking it away is like playing a glitched map that cannot be won. Nightmare runs should still allow looting and having no radar makes that extremely hard even if you know where the rooms are.

 

So spoiled by all the new games that have minimaps, so you cant play without it? Seriously...? Only instance iam againt this is extermination mission.

[Clazzeh]

As much as I hate to agree, nightmare mode is rather punishing to players who dislike the difficulty or haev a hard time adapting, though my suggestion to these people is DON'T PLAY NIGHTMARE MODE!

 

I mean honestly it is a rather simple solution, I don't have problems with it, I just stealth in with my loki, bring some silenced weps and be careful, I get spotted it is almost reminiscent of something that is actually a sneaking game! you get spotted and its game over man! game over! Unless you are kitted out for it. And if you are on a map with a timer, try and find all the exits before setting fire to the spaceship plz.

[Clazzeh]

There is hard and then there is pointless.

 

Do explain how Nova, Vauban, Trinity or Mag is supposed to survive a corpus level 70 DEFENSE with NO shields and NO energy and vampire mode.

 

There are dumb posts.

People read dumb posts.

People complain that dumb posts are dumb.

 

Logic.

 

Rage, trinity with energy vampire, teamwork, bring good guns, use effective cover while using said good guns, vitality, steel fiber, shade+continuous weps. Oh and if all else fails bring a rocket launcher o3o

[Troublechutor]

But if you knew that it was a no shields + no energy you would take another warframe (like rhino or frost with high health, armor, rejuvenation aura, marthon, rush and fast recovery) and maybe shade as a sentinel.

Well, I wouldn't, but that's because I use only loki.  

 

But if there were a way to see the conditions ahead of time, people will pick the mode that most suits their play style/frame and farm away.  The randomness is the only real difficulty factor... and that's overcome by just aborting unfair conditions.

 

Maybe if aborts cost your revives that could discourage it... dunno.

[Robotgedek]

I enjoy the No shield mode. it give steel fibre some use. And when i play with stranger for the first time, theres a feeling to all of us that we NEED to stick together, we back up each other. When someone hacking panel, we cover his back. it was awesome!

So yeah, maybe knowing what nightmare mode ahead of us give us time to preapre, but it will lose the surprise effect. im kinda 50/50 in this matter,

[Inconmon]

I had one pug nightmare defense with no shields on venus... people with 128 hitpoints including the +15% from max aura.

100% hilarious

I hope the other nightmare conditions spice up the game.

Don't like them? Don't play nightmare. Your lack of coordination, team work and skill should not punish others with dumped down difficulty.

(And I play pug/solo -- with a team that plays together all the time this must be one boring game without challenge.)

Edited July 29, 2013 by Inconmon

[RoboDoge]

This, basically.

 

No shields and no energy?

Good thing you picked Loki or Mag!

 

 

 

 

The only one I agree completely needs to go is No Minimap without on-HUD objective markers for timed missions. Outside of Exterm or infested whatever (since I'm fairly sure it's impossible to fail the timer on Infested due to their zerg rush giving you zounds of time refils), that almost definitely will cause you to fail unless you're Lucky- not Skilled.

 

Without the timer, make notes in chat on how far away from the fork you are, and which fork you took. It's a bit tedious, but can help you get back to where you went the wrong way, and get going on the right path.

I survived that as Loki with 405 health and Nova with around 250 health. So you point in not valid. People that are saying that frame health is something useful here are just lacking the skill.

[HandsomeMask]

You all soft. no energy+no shield+no map+ no gravity+health vampire+loki = Holy rape.

 

Health constantly at three, one shot and I die while floating around.

[General_Krull]

People wanted hard mode.

We got hard mode.

People complain that hard mode is hard.

 

Logic?

People wanted DOABLE hard mode, on higher levels no shields and no energy means you will die the moment an enemy shows up. be it mass of corpus with pewpews, infested mass of stun locking or elite "all our bullets hit no matter what" grineers or even napalms with their trough the walls aoe.

[eStecko]

People wanted DOABLE hard mode, on higher levels no shields and no energy means you will die the moment an enemy shows up. be it mass of corpus with pewpews, infested mass of stun locking or elite "all our bullets hit no matter what" grineers or even napalms with their trough the walls aoe.

It is doable, although nobody cant say its easy neither it can be beaten with common rambo style. What i was saying is that people got what they wanted and yet they are complain about it. Only problems i pesonaly see, is making Nightmare optional and give some actual reward for playing it, other then few mods that when players will get, they will stop playing NM.

 

What you are saying is a problem of current difficulty scaling of enemy damage, effective health and their numbers, increasing by their level. Its a simple numerical increase in those things and its just boring. There is a curve of numerical equipment need to beat numerical level enemies, leaving out actual player skill, therefor you cannot defeat pluto enemies with starter gear, etc... The game is becoming a gear hunt and i personaly very much not like it. Nightmare just increases this problem by upscaling enemies even more, the game modifiers inside of it are just fine.

[RoboDoge]

It is doable, although nobody cant say its easy neither it can be beaten with common rambo style. What i was saying is that people got what they wanted and yet they are complain about it. Only problems i pesonaly see, is making Nightmare optional and give some actual reward for playing it, other then few mods that when players will get, they will stop playing NM.

 

What you are saying is a problem of current difficulty scaling of enemy damage, effective health and their numbers, increasing by their level. Its a simple numerical increase in those things and its just boring. There is a curve of numerical equipment need to beat numerical level enemies, leaving out actual player skill, therefor you cannot defeat pluto enemies with starter gear, etc... The game is becoming a gear hunt and i personaly very much not like it. Nightmare just increases this problem by upscaling enemies even more, the game modifiers inside of it are just fine.

I call that effect "Rhino players effect". When you arent satisfiend by anything.

[Vipus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last few posts can be summed up as:

 

"Using my [insert WF name here] I was able to complete the mission by [insert here boring strategy that involves exploiting a poorly implemented feature in the game]. You just suck at the game!"

 

"Stop trying to ruin my game. it's perfect the way it is! Get out of here you dirty casual!"

 

"I know the game's mechanics are completely broken right now, but it's also an optional mode. Just don't play it (and miss all those new Mods)."

 

"We kept dying all the time and the game was completely unfair. Half the mechanics that define Warframe were also missing, so we had to make do with only the lame shooting. I don't even know how we managed to survive! Oh, boy, I had so much FUN!"

 

Yeah... I know where this is going. Guess i'll just wait for DE to (hopefully) release a new patch.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Vipus

[eStecko]

I call that effect "Rhino players effect". When you arent satisfiend by anything.

 

Don't get me wrong, i still enjoy the game a lot, but i cannot close my eyes to things i personaly see as problems that could hurt this game in future, if it will go in this direction.

[Ptosis]

I like the new conditions, however i don't like the way they stack; played a defense mission today where i had Vampire, no shields and energy drain, with all three on it felt more punishing than difficult. On their own they are fine, just wish they had a screen showing the conditions before starting the match so that you can prepare properly.

[Hurcheon]

Just want to say it was very fun for me to be caught by Stalker on new nightmare map with draining energy and shields)

It was a bit... unfair. I doubt Stalker suffered from those penalties too.

[Bibliothekar]

Just had a run with no minimap, zero energy and shields with no Rhino or Frost on my team. Never been more satisfied when we finally made it out alive. It's supposed to be difficult you know?

I had that as a Rescue Mission today. While we were looking for the exit, the Hostage wandered off and got eaten by Infested. I don't say difficult ain't nice - but some combinations are just ridiculous.

[-Kittens-]

Rage, trinity with energy vampire, teamwork, bring good guns, use effective cover while using said good guns, vitality, steel fiber, shade+continuous weps. Oh and if all else fails bring a rocket launcher o3o

 

You obviously don't have maxed vitality or the above warframes, or alternately have never played against level 70 Corpus on an open plain (here I'll put arrows on it) ->DEFENSE<-.

 

"Just bring X warframe" is also just as obtuse. Who says every player just happens to have X warframe when they only have THREE SLOTS.

 

Think before you post. Consider before you speak.

 

It makes life easier.

[Clazzeh]

I have every frame rank 30 ext some formad too. I'll say it once if you want to do a high level defence you will need the best equipment you can bring, best weapons, dont bring a gun you want to level, bring nothing but your best, and get a team you can coordinate wtih.

[Clazzeh]

 

You obviously don't have maxed vitality or the above warframes, or alternately have never played against level 70 Corpus on an open plain (here I'll put arrows on it) ->DEFENSE<-.

 

"Just bring X warframe" is also just as obtuse. Who says every player just happens to have X warframe when they only have THREE SLOTS.

 

Think before you post. Consider before you speak.

 

It makes life easier.

 

Also what does maxed out vitality have to do with anything

 

And before complaining, if YOU dont have x warframe, bring someone who does, and if you dont want to or cannot, well your pretty screwed ^^

[Bibliothekar]

So spoiled by all the new games that have minimaps, so you cant play without it? Seriously...? Only instance iam againt this is extermination mission.

I wouldn't complain about "no minimap" if Warframe was like Borderlands 2, where the map looks exactly the same every time I enter it and most times I'm able to overlook about half of it when I'm standing on the right spot.

But we have mostly small rooms, a completely randomly generated map and sometimes half a dozen possible exits in a room. Minimap or at least a blue waypoint-marker is just vital, especially when you've just rescued the hostage and have Infested zerg-rushing.

 

You obviously don't have maxed vitality or the above warframes

In fact, I've kicked Vitality out of most of my loadouts as 280% shields and 90% recharge are as good in almost every situation.

 

"Just bring X warframe" is also just as obtuse. Who says every player just happens to have X warframe when they only have THREE SLOTS.

 

Think before you post. Consider before you speak.

I have ... I think eight or nine slots now. But you won't find Loki, for example, in any of those. Because he doesn't fit my play-style. And I'm pretty sure, you will find many people like me out there. (Or in other words, I agree with -Kittens-.)

 

I have every frame rank 30 ext some formad too. I'll say it once if you want to do a high level defence you will need the best equipment you can bring, best weapons, dont bring a gun you want to level, bring nothing but your best, and get a team you can coordinate wtih.

Well, that's nice for you, but you're like the top 1% (as I mentioned above). And there is one big difference between HLD and NiM - when you go for HLD, you know what's waiting for you. In NiM, you just get said "okay, this is gonna be hard". But you're not told, what exactly you're gonna get.

I want to prepare for that mission, pick my equipment based on the modifiers - and not bring a 0815-Rhino just to be prepared for everything. I don't do that in normal missions (In'n'out-missions against Infested? Ember. Same against Corpus? Mag. Mobile Defense? Saryn or Nova. HLD? Trinity. And so on ...), so why am I forced by a crappy implemented NiM?

Edited July 29, 2013 by Bibliothekar

[XenosInfinity]

You can actually do these missions the old fashioned, search and destroy, way.

 

I swear people have become so spoiled by their mini-maps and radars it's a wonder they don't get lost and die of exposure every time they go outside to get the mail.

 

The path to your mailbox is not randomly generated every time you open a window.

[eStecko]

Shameless plug of my other topic about difficulty, game balance, powercreep and nightmare.

 

Takeout of the Nightmare part...

 

So we got tons of topics about Nightmare and it's recent update. BUT, keep in mind that this was added, because we asked for it. We wanted a "hardcore mode" and we pretty much got it. It has few issues, like some modifiers shoud exclude others, like no shield and vampire shoud not be turn on at a same time, and some modifiers shoud be turn off in some gametypes, like no map in extermination mission. For the issues, in mechanics of Nightmare alone, thats all i see here.

 

The real problem here, as i believe and as i think people wrongly put to a bad Nightmare mode design, is the actual numerical difficulty and crawling signs of powercreep we disscussed above. As plain simply said, Nightmare modifiers are fine as they are, but if enemies on Venus (level 8-10) get bumped into levels 30-40, this creates a problem especialy for new players and kicks in exponentialy with modifiers and enemy scaling we mentioned before. This is even bigger problem for higher level Nightmare levels as enemies have even higher stats. Although we could go in circles now and on a tour back into Difficulty part.

 

Another problem of Nightmare is reward. Some players find enjoyement in this hard content and that is fine. But for players that go for loot? They will do easiest Nightmare missions and wont bother doing them ever again. This is a reason i believe the Nightmare shoud be optionaly turned on/off and all modifiers shoud be available on user side with ruleset we mentioned before. The reward instead of few specific mods, would be something like +5% drop amount of mods, credits, resources for every modifier enabled. The difficulty would be player-set to our own liking and it would still scale exponentioanly, especialy when DE will add more modifiers into a game.

 

 

I wouldn't complain about "no minimap" if Warframe was like Borderlands 2, where the map looks exactly the same every time I enter it and most times I'm able to overlook about half of it when I'm standing on the right spot.

But we have mostly small rooms, a completely randomly generated map and sometimes half a dozen possible exits in a room. Minimap or at least a blue waypoint-marker is just vital, especially when you've just rescued the hostage and have Infested zerg-rushing.

 

Well yes, except those exits are in majority (90-95%) of cases locked and if they are not, they lead to objective or dead end with loot. The only problem is playing with this modifier in extermination.

[Saenol]

Good. Now make your office relocate every day. And don't use the GPS.

 

I have neither an office, nor a GPS (no smartphone either).

 

I call that effect "Rhino players effect". When you arent satisfiend by anything.

 

I play the Rhino quite a bit.

 

The path to your mailbox is not randomly generated every time you open a window.

 

Maybe not, but I even if it was, I'd still have eyes.

 

I wouldn't complain about "no minimap" if Warframe was like Borderlands 2, where the map looks exactly the same every time I enter it and most times I'm able to overlook about half of it when I'm standing on the right spot.

But we have mostly small rooms, a completely randomly generated map and sometimes half a dozen possible exits in a room. Minimap or at least a blue waypoint-marker is just vital, especially when you've just rescued the hostage and have Infested zerg-rushing.

 

So you expect Tenno to only be taking missions where they already have a detailed map of the surrundings?

 

Don't rescue the hostage until you know where the exit is.

 

Yes, scouting takes a few extra minutes, but it's hardly impossible, or even punishing, at least outside of the timed variety of exterminations.

[Ganpot]

Nightmare mode needs some major overhauls.  A lot of the different conditions are unfair instead of difficult.  For example, I just ran a mission with no minimap, constant energy drain, and no shields.  How is victory even supposed to be possible?  The enemies weren't even hard, they just slowly wore down my health because I never got health pickups.  

 

Not only that, but a lot of the nightmare combinations outright require a certain build or warframe in order to be completed.  The only easy and reliable way to get through a timed mission with no mini-map is to use a Loki with a sprint mod equipped. 

 

Thirdly, you can't see the mission modifiers until you've already joined.  How does that encourage different builds?  People will just use their normal builds and hope for the best (and possibly quit if they get a particularly hard mission).