Feedback: Cash Shop, the state of F2P in Warframe, the future.

[Redler]

Generally people who don't have as much time to play end up being the major market in the cash shop by spending money to make up for lost time.

Already thinking of getting founder package.

But when people who don't have time have to just pay up instead of using those time to actually work for them and when the item always came up during the same period of time where you go to sleep and never ever on weekends where people do play the game, you start to wonder why?

Edited February 5, 2013 by Redler

[Albinobunny]

Already thinking of getting founder package.

But when people who don't have time have to just pay up instead of using those time to actually work for them and when the item always came up during the same period of time where you go to sleep and never ever on weekends where people do play the game, you start to wonder why?

This so badly this. I'm just a student and *I* don't have time to be on top of the alerts.

Alerts need to change in a way that doesn't make it so my default behaviour is to turn the game on and NOT PLAY until an alert pops up.

[Blatantfool]

Already thinking of getting founder package.

But when people who don't have time have to just pay up instead of using those time to actually work for them and when the item always came up during the same period of time where you go to sleep and never ever on weekends where people do play the game, you start to wonder why?

Convenience purchasing is a pretty simple concept.

In a perfect world the Developers build their game to have engaging gameplay and a smooth progression. It is fun to do the things that make you stronger.

This progression has to last you a good while, so it isnt exactly speedy. The Developers have to tailor things to suit a progression that falls somewhere in between the point of being a mindless grind and a quick bit of fun. Depending on the game the results vary.

The Convenience items are there for the players to pay the Developers directly to say "Yeah. Don't want to grind for this." or "I need to speed this up for a while" and that is okay since the Developer makes their money and, when done right, it doesn't impact the feeling of fun negatively in the gameplay for either the buyer or the people the buyer interacts with. After all, you don't want purchases or the shop bumming anyone out.

This is something Warframe is having trouble with right now. Their gameplay is fine but their Progression system is a joke and one of their convenience items can't actually be called a mere convenience item, as it is actually neccesary to play at full strength and obtaining without paying is like playing a slot machine. Even the easiest method, which is the login reward, is still a slot machine.

[Mak_Gohae]

This is something Warframe is having trouble with right now. Their gameplay is fine but their Progression system is a joke and one of their convenience items can't actually be called a mere convenience item, as it is actually neccesary to play at full strength and obtaining without paying is like playing a slot machine. Even the easiest method, which is the login reward, is still a slot machine.

But it is not neccesary to play at full strength.

For the weapons.

[FennecFox]

Hello.

The implementation of the cash shop and what you can and can't buy is one of the most irritating parts of the micro-transaction/freemium game system that I see in Warframe which is an otherwise awesome game.

Microtransactions should be for two things:

- Ease of access (making is easy and quicker to do things)

- Cosmetics (I don't need to explain this but it looks better if there are two sets of statements in parentheses)

But you ought to know this already. If you don't, watch this: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions

What is irritating about this system is the all too often mention orokin system.

It should be possible to acquire orokins in ways other than chance.

Also this system seems to be here only to force people to spend their sweet sweet plats.

Get rid of the system or make it possible to buy blueprints for credits or plats in the market.

I understand that you are a business which is trying to make money, but there are other ways of doing it (I think you might have struck gold (excuse the pun) with the founders program,

This is really starting to burn my biscuits.

Fix please.

[Redler]

I know, but I don't want to speed things up nor make things convenience, I want to grind for them.

Grinding mean you keep playing until you get what you want. But the system right now is to stay up 24 hour and play for 10 minutes to get what you want, and that's no grinding, it just too luck based and doesn't really take true effort.

I remember grinding my characters in Disgaea to lvl 9999, I remember farming for the item I want for weeks in Dark Souls and other MMORPG. Heck, I remember saving money to buy my first game console. But I never remember playing a game where you grind and got nothing from it,

well, except Warframe.

[Jay.ID]

If that is how you want to play the game that is fine play it with only 15 points added to the skill branch. Not everyone wants to be challenge beyond a certain point. If you want this game to be challenging then Respec all your mods and skill, don't add anything and solo a mission. Go do whatever you want. The point is not everyone is good in this kind of game. Not everyone is good in FPS that can pull of trick shots and 360 no scope. So stop trying to make the game more challenging for other people that don't want to be challenege that much. If you want challenges find ways to challenge yourself not others.

i think they could introduce a diffuculty selector, higher the difficulty higer the gain. something like smarter AI or greater number of enemies, so that if some one finds the gameplay too easy for them they can try the same level with a more challenging gameplay

[Disthe]

Can't agree anymore.

I would like to add on mastery ranking system.

I am playing different warframes and never look back to my old frames cause the old buddies can't earn mastery XP and no need for further 'study'. In fact, You can't wear a 'old' suit you like is kindda pain.

I know crystally clear that is a marketing ploy, to create a cycle keeps player playing and spending money. However, I can't enjoy having a lv30 warframe all feel like wasting time on playing a lv30 warframe. Is it something wrong with the gamer cycle? Have to use crap weapon like fruis to gain mastery(thats the my hardest time on Tenno). The passion is fading when Im stucking in such annoying cycle. I am willing to spend money but not this way! Many ppl had discussed before maybe a lv30 warframe or weapon can still fill up the XP bar to gain the little mastery. Warthunder allow players have 1/5 of XP and reward when they use a fully mastered unit, still better than nothing.

OP mentioned more than just a improvement of gameplay but direction of game. Thanks DE created a great game like this please don't let us down.

Don't take ransom money, take rainbow money.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Disthe

[Jay.ID]

Since this is a ''market'' related post ( or the most similar i have found).

Is there any one else other than me who thinks that there should be a market 'between' players, making something like a soulbound system like in guild wars. I mean you can trade item that you find around but not the ones that you have equipped same for the mods, since there the ingame market do not sell the materials why not the player sell the material that they have in exess, making some sort of auction house, or enebling the trade between tow players, for example i have, 10 sensor modules but i dont need them and my friend needs them to craft an item but he cannot find it so i can give some to him. It's true that some might play only to farm these materials, but in my opinion there should be a trade system between players, where you cannot sell items bought with platinum or pre-equipped items but you can sell every thing you dont need to a higher price that you would get by selling them to the normal ingame market.

[Jay.ID]

Can't agree anymore.

I would like to add on mastery ranking system.

I am playing different warframes and never look back to my old frames cause the old buddies can't earn mastery XP and no need for further 'study'. In fact, You can't wear a 'old' suit you like is kindda pain.

I know crystally clear that is a marketing ploy, to create a cycle keeps player playing and spending money. However, I can't enjoy having a lv30 warframe all feel like wasting time on playing a lv30 warframe. Is it something wrong with the gamer cycle? Have to use crap weapon like fruis to gain mastery(thats the my hardest time on Tenno). The passion is fading when Im stucking in such annoying cycle. I am willing to spend money but not this way! Many ppl had discussed before maybe a lv30 warframe or weapon can still fill up the XP bar to gain the little mastery. Warthunder allow players have 1/5 of XP and reward when they use a fully mastered unit, still better than nothing.

OP mentioned more than just a improvement of gameplay but direction of game. Thanks DE created a great game like this please don't let us down.

Don't take ransom money, take rainbow money.

well if the rank system was not bugged, i have rhino ash and frost, at 30 in game i'm rank 4 (dont know the rank name) but here i'm initiate, maybe the rank depends on something else or it's just bugged

[UkyoSonoda]

rank system isnt bugged. Its just that currently the only real benefit of increased player mastery rank is making a few more weapons available in the shop. If this system is to remain I really feel like there should be more reason or benefit to advancing in mastery rank.

[Sofiel]

Since this is a ''market'' related post ( or the most similar i have found).

Is there any one else other than me who thinks that there should be a market 'between' players, making something like a soulbound system like in guild wars. I mean you can trade item that you find around but not the ones that you have equipped same for the mods, since there the ingame market do not sell the materials why not the player sell the material that they have in exess, making some sort of auction house, or enebling the trade between tow players, for example i have, 10 sensor modules but i dont need them and my friend needs them to craft an item but he cannot find it so i can give some to him. It's true that some might play only to farm these materials, but in my opinion there should be a trade system between players, where you cannot sell items bought with platinum or pre-equipped items but you can sell every thing you dont need to a higher price that you would get by selling them to the normal ingame market.

No selling. Selling involves currency. Currency is your sort of curve at the beginning of the game. "Man I want that Snipetron gun, but don't have enough." or whatever. However I do think TRADING would be awesome. Trading of mods, trading of blueprints, and trading of materials. That's it. No weapons, no warframes, no helmets or skins. Just the blueprints for them. In this manner the people with excess could trade it to those that need it, or hoard it for themselves. In which case it would be no different for them than it is now, except they'd be doing it optionally.

Aside from that, the point of this thread was based on the cash shop, not the market. Perhaps you should start up another thread, or check out one of the many others of exactly that kind of topic that I'm sure exist.

[FennecFox]

A mastery system is a good idea, but I would like to see something done to give players reason to play with their maxed frames. How about something like the badass ranks in Borderlands 2 or the system that they implemented in Diablo 3 whose name I have now forgotten.

I think that the idea of grinding is fundamentally a bad thing and should be limited. There should be more reason to play other than to get the best gear and max-out your frame, but getting back to the topic.

Orokin system is broken and it needs to be fixed, it appears to be a cash-grabbing cycle whereby you max out your frame, grind for the new prints and parts then build one and then upgrade it in only to be forced to pay plats to fully un-lock the upgrade tree.

[chiuman]

brilliant post. hire this man!

[sambarpowder]

I have a serious question. Is it considered bad to treat unlocking items and getting stronger as more important than progressing through the game?

I like to feel like I've gotten stronger over the time I spent in game. Selling items is something I just can't do, when I've put so much time into them. Is that in it self a bad thing? I can pay, but I have rules regarding what I buy, and this game may be good as a game, but I disagree with some principles and so I've held back.

I just feel like time spent playing is wasted when I sell a frame. Having that as a necessity makes me feel like practically everything I have is a temporary trial, and there's no permanence. I like permanence. I like having something to show for what I've played through. After 40-50 hours, I don't want to have to start anew and play through the whole game again just because I want to unlock more things.

I seriously think slot-based limitation is bad and needs to go. The choice between effectively losing progress or paying up is a bad thing, and I'm completely against it. There's few other games that are this fun, I just wish I could play some more.

[Ced23Ric]

hire this man!

I should apply first, I guess. But currently DE isn't looking for someone brainstorming on everything and nothing with a modest background in graphics, story concepting.

PS: DE, if you are, I am currently looking to expand my vocational horizon. We could talk. I am working for the German government right now, but I love Canada. Been living in Niagara Falls for 1.5 years. Call me.

[Disthe]

Hire this man!+1

well if the rank system was not bugged, i have rhino ash and frost, at 30 in game i'm rank 4 (dont know the rank name) but here i'm initiate, maybe the rank depends on something else or it's just bugged

You are a novice start from Rank 5 after you've mastered 4 warframes and plenty of firearms, Tenno is a huge organisation larger than we human can imagine! lol

Seriously, if I keep playing the old stuff no matter how long time or how much money I spent, Tenno will still rank me a veteran novice.

Alright, I heard Grineer hiring some new guns, count me : /

[lorddash2]

this is the post that sums it all up. great work, i hope the devs listen to this. warframe is a great game.

[_ZAR_]

Get rid of the system or make it possible to buy blueprints for credits or plats in the market.

This goes into something i tried to point out in the post "orokin NEED to Change". I think its important that you are able to access all ingame stuff that makes your char better also for credits (maybe really high price that you have to sell all mods for 2 day ok but make it accessable)! Otherwise not RIGHT NOW paying users get frustrated.

Since this is a ''market'' related post ( or the most similar i have found).

Is there any one else other than me who thinks that there should be a market 'between' players, making something like a soulbound system like in guild wars.

https://forums.warfr...c/7848-trading/

I think the things you mentioned are discussed here. Trading is one big thing missing in the beta right now I hope dev's will add but i think the point here is a lack of balancing inside the cash system.

-------------

But to take all together on my oppinion Ced23Ric put the nail on it addressing the problem that you are forced to buy orokin because of FRUSTRATION!!! Thats the real problem. You spend while you are frustrated not while you want to have enriched game experience or bonuses more fun etc. - no you buy because u are forced to somehow get them to be as good as players that buy them!! I am not saying you can not play without them but selling with the frustration of users (i will call the community users not customers because we feel like not beeing forced to pay for this since its F2P) is a bad thing.

So i try to put this to a point for our DE team:

I would ask everyone to simply ignore opinions differing from their own, remain close to the topic/OP or leave it be. Another pointless, recursive discussion that is running in circles is not needed. You don't have to convince another player otherwise. He doesn't matter. What matters is that Digital Extremes sees, reads and understands what their player base likes. You have to convince, if anyone, DE of your opinion. Try that, before you dive into the same arguments and circle debates.

Try convincing DE, with thought-out, put-together statements.

If i buy something i need to know the price - why is the price so encrypted? 1$ = 10 plat thats easy to calc.

Why should i as a user not paying for platinum RIGHT NOW take friends into your game if I am FRUSTRATED by the current orokin accessability that forces me to pay? I can play but at the half level my progression stops?

If you make negative feelings come up and the solution is pay people will not like the game that much telling everybody about it!

p.s. and yeah definitly hire this man +2000 :)

Edited February 5, 2013 by _ZAR_

[Dansongier]

I must say I agree with a majority of everything, definitely for the rework for slots. The Orokin System I feel should be more reworked then completely destroyed for the sole fact that it gives players something else to play toward, although it maybe a wall, some people use that as a goal. You know, how when playing MMORPGs, completeing that dungeon, leveling up to get that skill ect. ect. I do believe that Reactor/Catalyst should be easier to obtain within normal game play. It shouldnt take like, 150 hours just to get one reactor/catalyst, but it shouldn't drop like every other enemy either. The fact that it is craftable I feel is a start atleast.

As for the Cash shop rework, I definitely agree with this as well as the suggestions to add to it. Agreeing with Ced23ric, Skins, Muzzle colors, different cosmetics are ALWAYS a big hit and spending in games. Be able to change the color of weapons or maybe even go as far as making the weapon look completely different(Maybe make the Bolto look like a mini wrist Crossbow) or maybe new effects on the weapon outside of the elemental looks. Skins for Warframes would fit in perfectly too, can go for more awesome look skins and even humorous skins, like a Chicken Outfit. Cybernatic Ninja Chicken in Space, will always be a big seller.

[Blatantfool]

This thread is probably the most constructive thread of its type on the board right now.

[RespawningJesus]

My biggest problem is that most weapons and frames can only be obtained via Platinum. As someone who has started playing, this severely limits what I can and can't do in this game. You gotta give players a little running room before they'll decide to shell out cash.

[Mak_Gohae]

My biggest problem is that most weapons and frames can only be obtained via Platinum. As someone who has started playing, this severely limits what I can and can't do in this game. You gotta give players a little running room before they'll decide to shell out cash.

For weapons where plat is only shown as a price you can get the blueprints for credits to craft them. Go to the market and go to page 2 and 3 for blueprints. And for the frames the very first page on the bottom shows some blueprints.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[G3rman]

For weapons where plat is only shown as a price you can get the blueprints for credits to craft them. Go to the market and go to page 2 and 3 for blueprints. And for the frames the very first page on the bottom shows some blueprints.

Afuris requires two Furis to craft, which there is no buyable blueprint for.

[Ced23Ric]

Afuris requires two Furis to craft, which there is no buyable blueprint for.

You can buy Furii for Credits.