Is Mag Still Considered Useless Tier?

[N4F4N]

I just got Mag yesterday, potatoed her, and I love her. Is she still bad? Cause it doesn't seem like she is.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Depends on how you use her.

 

Use her well? God Tier.

 

Suck at her? Useless Tier.

[N4F4N]

Depends on how you use her.

Use her well? God Tier.

Suck at her? Useless Tier.

Well I'd say I'm pretty good with her since I get most kills. Edited July 30, 2013 by N4F4N

[Aigloblam]

I most certainly would NOT call her God Tier...but shes a hell of a lot closer to that than to Useless. Shes a pretty good frame again, if you are willing to put any kind of work into her at all.

[N4F4N]

I most certainly would NOT call her God Tier...but shes a hell of a lot closer to that than to Useless. Shes a pretty good frame again, if you are willing to put any kind of work into her at all.

I am willing, my body is ready. And I fed her a potato..

[Eirshy]

She's combo oriented.

 

Pull has a lot of setup potential and is probably her best ability

 

Shield Polarize... I still haven't tested to see if it's awesome vs Osprey like I think it might be.

 

Bullet Attractor still lowers your party's DPS unless everyone's using a Gorgon or Supra, and still invalidates Banshee's Sonar. Please don't ever use BA.

 

Crush still falls off hard, just like all other damage-oriented ults.

[LalaLuck]

She's combo oriented.

 

Pull has a lot of setup potential and is probably her best ability

 

Shield Polarize... I still haven't tested to see if it's awesome vs Osprey like I think it might be.

 

Bullet Attractor still lowers your party's DPS unless everyone's using a Gorgon or Supra, and still invalidates Banshee's Sonar. Please don't ever use BA.

 

Crush still falls off hard, just like all other damage-oriented ults.

Bullet Attractor + Radal Javelin wrecks faces. Just sayin'.

[TemetNosce]

Speaking as someone who actually plays Mag regularly, yes she's still horrible. However, to understand this you have to grasp that balance isn't assessed based on early or mid game. In those areas, any frame is useable. At end game though, it can take multiple crushes simply to kill trash enemies. Further than that however, her other abilities are mostly problematic. The only good one is pull, and it's dangerous and not constantly applicable (it's a solid ability though). Her other abilities... Shield Polarize may restore some shields, but using the few seconds of CC from Crush would restore more just by delaying damage, and Bullet Attractor will actually reduce your teams DPS and impede the use of certain (much better) abilities in most situations.

[Hipolipolopigus]

Mag's recent changes speak volumes of where DE want her to be. Nothing like going to use Pull and having the whole room just pop into a gory mess :3

[N4F4N]

She's combo oriented.

 

Pull has a lot of setup potential and is probably her best ability

 

Shield Polarize... I still haven't tested to see if it's awesome vs Osprey like I think it might be.

 

Bullet Attractor still lowers your party's DPS unless everyone's using a Gorgon or Supra, and still invalidates Banshee's Sonar. Please don't ever use BA.

 

Crush still falls off hard, just like all other damage-oriented ults.

I tend to use pull and crush together a lot.

[PopTartZombie]

 

 

Shield Polarize... I still haven't tested to see if it's awesome vs Osprey like I think it might be.

 

 

it heals the warframe cyropod shields as well.

[Eirshy]

Bullet Attractor + Radal Javelin wrecks faces. Just sayin'.

 

Yeah, 12,000 damage instantly, requiring two frames to pull off (and 175 total energy between them)?

 

That's cute, one shot from my Lanka on a sonar splotch deals 6,110 / 12,220 / 25,662 / 31,772 / 51,324 (single normal, double normal, single crit, double one crit, double crit). Without factoring in non-armor-ignoring damage. And that's without maxed Serration. And that 6k only happens 5% of the time.

 

So for 50 energy, I (almost always) deal more damage in one shot (which I can then repeat and shoot again right away, without spending energy again, and I can also switch targets as Sonar hits everything in a huge area).

 

 

 

Mag's recent changes speak volumes of where DE want her to be. Nothing like going to use Pull and having the whole room just pop into a gory mess :3

 

Took me a while to get the hang of pulling Toxics.

 

And if Pull is getting you killed, try using Shade instead of Cube or Wyrm. And/or learn how to immediately slide backwards so you don't get Toxic Mosh'd by yourself.

 

 

 

She's a great *combo* frame, but by herself she's pretty bad. Pull IS quite fun to use though. Entire reason I didn't sell her after getting her to 30. I enjoyed using Pull too much lol

 

it heals the warframe cyropod shields as well.

for what, 150?

 

Bro, you ain't savin' S#&$ with 150 when a lv70 or so infested charge will hit for more than that lol

 

Crush would do a better job of saving the day, as it CC's for like 3 seconds or so in a wide area.

Edited July 30, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[VER1]

I just got Mag yesterday, potatoed her, and I love her. Is she still bad? Cause it doesn't seem like she is.

 

You answered your own question.

 

If you can enjoy playing as MAG then she is definitely not useless.

 

Set her up right and she will be a great tanky CC type warframe.

[FrozenFate]

Pull is essential on defense missions if you plan on using the ogris with some friends.

[Eirshy]

You answered your own question.

If you can enjoy playing as MAG then she is definitely not useless.

Set her up right and she will be a great tanky CC type warframe.

Fun and Powerful are two completely different things. Twin Vipers are my favorite pistol in the game, but compared to my Despair or Acrid, they're pretty bad.

Mag definitely can be fun- hell, the only reason I kept her was because of Pull being fun to use. The problem is Pull is her only ability that doesn't need some help right now.

Literally every other frame brings more to the table in terms of power.

BA is almost always a reduction in damage output- only being "useful" for shutting down a boss's firing and buffing Supra, Gorgon, and Excal's Ult- while negating anybody who brought a high accuracy weapon and any Banshees who are using Sonar (re: what should be all of them).

Crush gets armor scaling raped, and doesn't have anywhere near the utility of Avalanche (guaranteed shield crush, easy aiming for allies), Sound Quake (hits enemies that come into it after it starts, staggers rather than shrinks), M Primer (x2 damage amp, target count amp), Rhino Stomp (longer CC, easier aiming at CC'd enemies, low self-CC), and even Overload (outright murders corpus below level 80 or so, still kills Moas in its sleep).

And Polarize is just... kinda weaksauce. Better than it was for sure, but it needs a bit better scaling XD

Edited July 30, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Clessiah]

Mag is one of the only warframe that can effectively "move" a group of enemies effectively. If your team members know what you're doing then you'll turn half of a map into quicksand with blender.

 

here's an example:

[LalaLuck]

Yeah, 12,000 damage instantly, requiring two frames to pull off (and 175 total energy between them)?

 

That's cute, one shot from my Lanka on a sonar splotch deals 6,110 / 12,220 / 25,662 / 31,772 / 51,324 (single normal, double normal, single crit, double one crit, double crit). Without factoring in non-armor-ignoring damage. And that's without maxed Serration. And that 6k only happens 5% of the time.

 

So for 50 energy, I (almost always) deal more damage in one shot (which I can then repeat and shoot again right away, without spending energy again, and I can also switch targets as Sonar hits everything in a huge area).

Just sayin' bro, just sayin'. Bullet Attractor carved itself its own little niche.

[Eirshy]

Just sayin' bro, just sayin'. Bullet Attractor carved itself its own little niche.

As an oddly specific duo power combo that gets outperformed by and negates a lone frame with a sniper rifle? While also negating anybody else with a sniper rifle (or Latron [Prime], or Dera, or Burston, and potentially Bratons, Heks, and Sobeks)?

Seriously, unless you're specifically using that combo, or everyone's using support weapons, do not use bullet attractor.

And remember that that combo is out-performed by a solo Banshee (as in do it for novelty, not damage).

Edited July 30, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Disskia]

Not sure if this has been suggested before, but couldn't a possible fix to BA be to just direct the bullets to weak points? or if sonar is up, just direct them to that?

[TemetNosce]

Not sure if this has been suggested before, but couldn't a possible fix to BA be to just direct the bullets to weak points? or if sonar is up, just direct them to that?

 

It's basically the most popular fix, but some have argued that it'd make it too powerful. Personally I agree with you though, and think that the entire situation has been overcomplicated.

[Mhak]

As others have said, her combo potential and group synergy is where it's really at.

 

Mag + Ogris-user is very easymode. Mag continuously pulls tons of enemies to her, someone else takes them all out with the Ogris. Extremely efficient in endless defense. A lot of people bash shield polarize but a Mag who's good with it and times it after you're hit by a disruptor or surrounded by enemies is a real life saver. Mag is nowhere near useless if played by someone who knows how to play it well.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Mhak

[Ferriwind]

Depends on how you use her.

 

Use her well? God Tier.

 

Suck at her? Useless Tier.

Pretty much this, Mag has at least two strong skills, Pull and Bullet Attractor. She is definitely not useless tier but does want for certain weapons and teammates.

[Clessiah]

Pretty much this, Mag has at least two strong skills, Pull and Bullet Attractor. She is definitely not useless tier but does want for certain weapons and teammates.

Spamming Shield Polarize is also rather effective as a last resort(restores shield for defending objective + person who's reviving + person who's trying to hold all the enemies off + yourself at the same time).

[Xylia]

I still feel that we need to do more for poor Mag.

 

She's better than she was, but she's still.... she still doesn't "have it".

 

I can't think of very many other frames that require certain other frames or weapons to be in a Team to be effective.

 

I think a general consensus shows that Crush has to be the weakest link in her repertoire; it just doesn't do enough damage to warrant using 100 energy on it instead of two Polarizes, or Four Pulls in a Defense.

 

As for Pull and BA.... they are *incredibly* situational and have very limited use. Pull is likely to get yourself killed unless you have certain frames using other abilities (Bastille, etc) or to suicide by pulling Infested away from a Cryopod or something...

 

BA.... meh. They need to change it so that it doesn't clash with Sonar so much, they need to make enemies inside of the BA take weak point damage (so that you don't lessen everybody's DPS).

 

Shield Polarize?

 

It is good, though to be honest, it feels a little weak to me. It should heal more shields if there are less people being healed. 225 shields being healed is good..... if there are 4 people being healed. However, if you're solo, 225 usually isn't worth the 50 energy, those shields will get taken down in seconds in higher level stuff. So perhaps it should restore 70% shields if 3 people are healed, 80% if 2 people are healed and 100% if you're solo or you're the only ally affected by it. And/or it should give bonus shields if you stripped them from nearby enemies.

 

For example, if you used it with 1 other person nearby, you would both be healed for 80% of the Mag's shield capacity. However, there were two Sawmen nearby who both had 50 shields each. So, you'd be healed for 80% + 50 shields (50% of the two sawmen = 50 total). Assuming a Mag with no Redirection, this would be 410 total healed. Obviously, you can't overheal with shields, that might be a touch overpowered.

 

.........although........

 

It could work like the Shield Ospreys do, and give you Temporary Shields and allow it to overheal that way.

[Xylia]

As for Crush...

 

#1: Armor should ADD damage, not remove it. You're magnetizing the enemy's bones. Why does Armor lessen the damage? Meanwhile, Armor is usually made of metal; magnetizing bones and plates of armor would cause incredible damage to the flesh underneath, meaning it should do MORE damage with MORE armor.

 

#2: 12 Meters is.......incredibly small range. Molecular Prime is more than double that (25), the explosion of each Molecular Prime'd mob is further (15), Volt's Overload is 20 meters.....why 12 meters? It is hard to actually hit very many enemies at that distance, you are pretty much forced to pull them to you first, which makes this costing 125 energy to get effective use out of an Ult instead of just 100 like everybody else does.

 

#3: Enemies who walk into the AoE are not effected? They should be, if they enter the AoE after casting but before the "BOOM" (that 2-3 seconds where they are levitated into the air), especially considering the incredibly small range.

 

#4: Make Continuity affect how long the enemies are levitated, so that it could become a useful crowd control ability as well as a damage ability. Combined with #3, it would also give you more opportunities to bring more enemies into the area.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Xylia