Abilities To Run Up To Obstetrical And Hide.

[Heroicleopard]

I think this would amplify the ability to run through missions stealth, and or the reduces damage taken from bullets, but would still be affected by enemy abilities like (Stomp, knockback, ect.)

[Azure_Kytia]

So a cover system, essentially?

 

DE have said in the past it's really not something they want to implement as it encourages slower gameplay instead of fast paced ninja badassery.

[CaveCricket48]

Sprint.

[Heroicleopard]

Excuse the spelling of the horrid title, I hadn't read over before confirming the title.

 

 

 

I guess that point does make sense.

[Tsukinoki]

What you seem to be describing is a cover system.

DE has officially stated before that they do not want a cover system because of the slow gameplay it causes.

And it also brings up this problem:

If you allow a cover system the game will become far easier for the people that use it. In order to make this game challenging to them you need to make all of the enemies hit like a freight train.

If everything hits like a freight train then it becomes impossible to not use the cover system as you'll be dead in seconds, which means that melee and running up to your enemies is now suicide.

That forces you to use cover, and turns it from a fast action running/climbing/melee everything to death to a slow paced "Hide behind box, pop up, shoot, move to next box and repeat".

Further this brings up one HUGE issue:

If this game had a cover system, try running up to something and expect to jump over it or wall run up it when all your tenno wants to do is cuddle up to the box. Which can easily get you killed, and completely ruins the flow of gameplay and movement.

Overall a cover system of any kind beyond the soft cover that we currently have wont work in WF at all and DE has said as much.

[Mietz]

What you seem to be describing is a cover system.

DE has officially stated before that they do not want a cover system because of the slow gameplay it causes.

 

Then why is Stealth in the game in the first place? Thats not fast and can never be fast.

Either remove stealth or have two designed paces for both systems.

 

And it also brings up this problem:

If you allow a cover system the game will become far easier for the people that use it. In order to make this game challenging to them you need to make all of the enemies hit like a freight train.

If everything hits like a freight train then it becomes impossible to not use the cover system as you'll be dead in seconds, which means that melee and running up to your enemies is now suicide.

That forces you to use cover, and turns it from a fast action running/climbing/melee everything to death to a slow paced "Hide behind box, pop up, shoot, move to next box and repeat".

 

Actually if enemies would hit harder you would need systems for damage avoidance instead of tanking everything with your goddamn shield like right now.

 

Maybe, and bear with me as this is a revolutionary idea: The roll and slide could be used to avoid damage granting invincibility frames like in every other game. Then they could also be useful for other things than speed-loling through the levels.

 

 

 

Further this brings up one HUGE issue:

If this game had a cover system, try running up to something and expect to jump over it or wall run up it when all your tenno wants to do is cuddle up to the box. Which can easily get you killed, and completely ruins the flow of gameplay and movement.

 

Maybe, and again, this is just me being revolutionary again, there could be a separate cover-button, its not like we are running out of those on a keyboard or gamepad.

 

 

Overall a cover system of any kind beyond the soft cover that we currently have wont work in WF at all and DE has said as much.

 

Then DE is wrong.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Mietz

[Tsukinoki]

@Mietz
So DE is wrong about the direction that they want to take THEIR game in?
So they are wrong in saying that a cover system is against the view that they have for THEIR game?
How fraking stuck up are you to say that DE is wrong about their own game?

And they have said repeatedly that a cover system breaks up gameplay too much and slows it down far to much and that is why they wont include it.   Simple as that.  
And please enlighten me on how a cover system where the enemies hit a lot harder than they do now would not fundamentally slow gameplay down, which is something DE has said that they are trying to avoid?  And one of the reasons why they are not including a cover system?

As for the "Add an extra button" they have actually addressed this and said that they would prefer to keep the system simple instead of requiring have a million different buttons to do everything.  So they have already addressed this point and again it is against THEIR vision of THEIR game.

So please, stop being a stuck up and self important person who thinks that they know what the vision for the game is better than the designers of the game.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[Mietz]

@Mietz

So DE is wrong about the direction that they want to take THEIR game in?

So they are wrong in saying that a cover system is against the view that they have for THEIR game?

How fraking stuck up are you to say that DE is wrong about their own game?

 

Its not "their game".

Its a game they make for other people to play.

Warframe isn't artistic expression of a lost soul or some garage band project with some grand vision to be respected by the recipient, its a product.

 

The fact DE is the developer of this product isn't an argument, its a deflection.

 

Yes, DE isn't some kind of perfect god-like entity, they are people and their design decisions (which are more like engineering efforts than artistic creation) can indeed be wrong. I don't care what DE made excuses for, there have been enough threads enumerating systems which would enhance this game for the people that play it, this should be the primary concern of the developers and not if "their vision" is being validated or not.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Mietz

[_Chaser]

Mietz, don't even bother to reply to such kind of people "devs r ulwuyz rite". they have no own point of view. all they do is just jump on anything sayind "but devs said %that%"

 

devs said alot. all devs do that. "no pvp" -here we go, if you take everything people say even developers on face value you are extremely naive person. making games is their business, so they will gladly bend to different ideas if it will be demanded by majority.

 

"nothing set in stone"

[Troublechutor]

ABILITIES TO RUN UP TO OBSTETRICAL AND HIDE.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetrics

 

ROFL

[_Chaser]

ABILITIES TO RUN UP TO OBSTETRICAL AND HIDE.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetrics

 

ROFL

 

do you have anything meaningful to say on topic?

if not, please don't bother to reply.

[SoanoS]

Regarding to the title of the topic, I think he meant obstacle or objective, not quite sure which. We'll never know. :p

 

But I agree with DE about the cover-system damaging the core of the playing experience. Now Warframe needs you to act fast, switch to different cover and keep mobile because of lack of "fool-proof" hiding spots behind of which you can play "peek-a-boo-and-shoot" with enemies. If a cover system was introduced to the game, it would hamper down the speed of the game with frames hiding behind a crate, and render all the melee weapons almost useless.

 

In the current state of the game you can still use cover and hide behind taller obstacles (boxes, crates) and in the doorways to avoid some of the incoming hits if you need to, which is more than enough cover for me to use when I need it. Even waist-high obstacles are usually good enough to run behind and use in emergency as it will reduce the incoming hits somewhat, and even more if you crouch. Be creative.

 

tl;dr:

 

There is no need for crate-hugging system because it WOULD slow down the game (like DE has stated), and the current mechanics already allow some use of cover if the player is creative enough.

[Mietz]

Regarding to the title of the topic, I think he meant obstacle or objective, not quite sure which. We'll never know. :p

 

But I agree with DE about the cover-system damaging the core of the playing experience. Now Warframe needs you to act fast, switch to different cover and keep mobile because of lack of "fool-proof" hiding spots behind of which you can play "peek-a-boo-and-shoot" with enemies. If a cover system was introduced to the game, it would hamper down the speed of the game with frames hiding behind a crate, and render all the melee weapons almost useless.

 

In the current state of the game you can still use cover and hide behind taller obstacles (boxes, crates) and in the doorways to avoid some of the incoming hits if you need to, which is more than enough cover for me to use when I need it. Even waist-high obstacles are usually good enough to run behind and use in emergency as it will reduce the incoming hits somewhat, and even more if you crouch. Be creative.

 

tl;dr:

 

There is no need for crate-hugging system because it WOULD slow down the game (like DE has stated), and the current mechanics already allow some use of cover if the player is creative enough.

 

Are people consciously ignoring where he said FOR STEALTH?

The core of stealth is slow methodic play, nothing lost here. The cover system would still be entirely optional in regular play. Adding a function to either stick to cover or have a smart cover system (FarCry3, Tomb Raider) would improve stealth, period.

[SoanoS]

Are people consciously ignoring where he said FOR STEALTH?

The core of stealth is slow methodic play, nothing lost here. The cover system would still be entirely optional in regular play. Adding a function to either stick to cover or have a smart cover system (FarCry3, Tomb Raider) would improve stealth, period.

 

Well, the stealth mechanics still need working on, but I am hopeful it will be improved soon. Maybe then it will be something that can be used as a viable tactic. Right now... It just doesn't work like it should.

[Mietz]

Well, the stealth mechanics still need working on, but I am hopeful it will be improved soon. Maybe then it will be something that can be used as a viable tactic. Right now... It just doesn't work like it should.

 

That was the whole point of the OP, suggesting a way to make it work like it should.

 

Piling on the idea just because its a cover system without context accomplishes nothing.

[SoanoS]

Well, we can fruitlessly argue about the current "stealth mechanics" all day on the forum or wait for DE to work on the stealth gameplay.

I don't know what DE has planned for us in the terms of stealth mechanics, so that can only be speculated on.

 

I can has cardboard box for stealth mode?

[Schattensang]

On a sidenote: What is the difference between running behind cover yourself or let the game run behind cover after you pressed a button?

Isn't it better to be able to judge the cover yourself? With just a button you would slide behind some tiny wall and got shot from above.

 

The only think I would like to have is a "Lie on the floor"-button. Even lesser crawlingspeed than with crouching but you could actually use those small walls for something. But of course it would take a brief moment to get up again.

[_Chaser]

crawling?! F*** yes please

[Mietz]

On a sidenote: What is the difference between running behind cover yourself or let the game run behind cover after you pressed a button?

Isn't it better to be able to judge the cover yourself? With just a button you would slide behind some tiny wall and got shot from above.

 

The issue isn't about running between cover, its actually being -in- cover, which can't be judged currently since there are no overt detection mechanics or visibility cues. You can be detected if your toe sticks out from behind a crate without understanding why.

Sticky or smart cover would guarantee the breaking of LOS like in other games.

 

In Farcry3 the smart cover system automatically places you in a position/state that prevents detection through accidental hitbox LOS, same goes for games like MGS, not to mention in MGS you get soliton radar with enemy vision cones being displayed (same for Dishonored). Not to mention the smart cover system in FC3 lets you lean out of cover for aiming without triggering LOS.

 

 

The current AI is extremely sensitive, they can detect you from an almost infinite distance away on any level of verticality, a sticky/smart cover system would alleviate that if we knew we are now "safe" from LOS.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Mietz

[SoanoS]

The issue isn't about running between cover, its actually being -in- cover, which can't be judged currently since there are no overt detection mechanics or visibility cues. You can be detected if your toe sticks out from behind a crate without understanding why.

Sticky or smart cover would guarantee the breaking of LOS like in other games.

 

In Farcry3 the smart cover system automatically places you in a position/state that prevents detection through accidental hitbox LOS, same goes for games like MGS, not to mention in MGS you get soliton radar with enemy vision cones being displayed (same for Dishonored). Not to mention the smart cover system in FC3 lets you lean out of cover for aiming without triggering LOS.

 

 

The current AI is extremely sensitive, they can detect you from an almost infinite distance away on any level of verticality, a sticky/smart cover system would alleviate that if we knew we are now "safe" from LOS.

 

Or we could have the enemy senses "dumbed down" a little, to stop them from detecting you from infinite distance, and maybe make them forget about you after a short while. I mean a "Mmmhh, just my imagination I guess... I probably should give up the stims" approach.

[Schattensang]

Hopefully they won't use some "smart" cover system like FC3... leaning out of cover and still not in Line of Sight? Really? That's dumb. And hopefully not something like GTA, where you can shoot around corners with just your arm sticking out, but without any vision of your enemy. And still kill someone.

Good, I can't argue with the other things, I didn't really notice that the AI has such extreme senses, as I normally just run up to one at the start to get seen. Stealth just isn't useful till now, after all.

[Tsukinoki]

@Schattensang

My "stealth" is usually just to kill anyone before they can raise an alert. If you kill them fast enough you can even do an assassination without them ever being alerted to your presence.

[Schattensang]

@Schattensang

My "stealth" is usually just to kill anyone before they can raise an alert. If you kill them fast enough you can even do an assassination without them ever being alerted to your presence.

 

Yeah it is a some sort of challenge. But I don't see any 'real' use to it. You get way less affinity, ressources and mods. In my opinion that's pretty much counterproductive.

[Tsukinoki]

@Schattensang

The only time I actually try to do it that way is when I just want an alert reward or the nightmare mod and am playing solo.

There are times when I just want to rush and not have to worry about having too many enemies...and if you are playing a nova in a no shields, no energy nightmare map then preventing an alert makes it a lot easier to get the end reward.

[Baigan]

Parkour and cover system seem to be the antithesis of each other.