Revert Update 7.8.0 Punishment

[Pave]

I've got dozens forks shoved into my eyeball now (I left the other eyeball untouched because two glass eyeballs won't make me see any better), yet I still don't see any benefits of this chnage, which would make this game any better...

 

Stop being stubborn and revert this change already: Your game isn't fun anymore, mainly because I can choose not to abused by it as long as this punishement exists:

 

 

(Feel free to post all the other related threds on this thread)

 

[Gorillabear]

Just finish what you start

[ArcSynder]

The only possible change I could see them considering is allowing you to keep picked up mods/credits if you fail, but not if you leave. 

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

I want them to revert the changes to the corpus. Since update 9, the corpus aren't fun to fight anymore. Almost as not fun as the grineer, because they're grineer. But with more shields and lasers. Except at least grineer weapons are inaccurate, corpus weapons are not. Soloing even low level corpus missions has become a nightmare.

[Oizen]

I think they should add more enemies that knock you down with an undogable move to warframe instead.

 

 

:>

[darkkterror]

So, how many times do you fail or abort a mission that you actually end up caring about this?  This change that you want reverted doesn't bother me in the slightest and not only is it because I don't fail/abort missions all that often, but it's also because I think it's silly to reward players for failing.

[Pave]

So, how many times do you fail or abort a mission that you actually end up caring about this?  This change that you want reverted doesn't bother me in the slightest and not only is it because I don't fail/abort missions all that often, but it's also because I think it's silly to reward players for failing.

1. Had this "rule" been added after all polishing and such instead of in the middle heavy-developement, us players who really aren't too much into submitting for punishment wouldn't minded too much, unlikely but still.

 

2. Bugs. It's hard to imagine, but most of the failures and aborts are caused by bugs, not lack of resourcefulness of players.

 

3. Why'd anyone would like this game to make players walk about due it's being punishing instead of fun? I'd call that bad business decision, but what do I know about good games that are still fun even if they kick my arse from time to time, but I can overcome the obstacle via pure skills instead of exploiting as much as possible?

 

4. We didn't ask for this punishment! I personally don't know if someone at the "Design Counsel" suggested this. But for the rest of the non-"Masters" this feels more like "lulz"-addition from the devs, especiially from Steve who might be still overly confident and holding this decision precious to him.

Again, nothing good was and ever will gained from this punishement. Nothing!

It's extremely demoralizing and it will drive off more players continuously. And it makes potential new players very hesitated to even try this game whenever they hear about this system.

As long as this system exists, it's only going to cause harm to this game.

 

I'm just a player who actually thinks for players who aren't "just as good as myself" when it comes to knowledge and skills to play video-games. In fact, had you bothered to follow the link mentioned on the first post, I was concerned if the punishment was simply too harsh to keep players encouraged and keep getting better in this game, intead of invalidating hours of gameplay (because not all players just rush missions without exploration, especially on larger maps with lots of loot to loot and enemies to take down) with a slap into face or fork into eyeball, figurately speaking.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Pave

[Xylia]

Uh.....

 

So you're saying you want people running to a boss, not finding what they want, and aborting the mission then and there AND getting to keep resources, mods, and credit drops they found in the mission?

 

Is that seriously what you're saying should happen?

 

Do you want people entering an Endless Defense Mission, smashing all the containers open, and then aborting mission, and then going back in to farm resources?

 

Do you want to join a game in which the host runs to the boss, kills the boss and immediately disconnects, leaving you in the dust?

 

Are you seriously saying you want these things to happen?

[Tsukinoki]

The reason they prevented rewards on aborting failing?

90% of the time you would run a boss mission only for the host to grab the drop and immeadiently quit.  That left the rest of the group getting ZERO rewards for the run and pissing them off.  Repeat this in 90% of the missions and you'll see why they made it so that if you got rewards you had to finish the mission to keep them.  It actually makes PUGs playable now.

Further it turned the missions into: "Grab what you can before the host decides to drop and we lose everything!" which is a horrible way to play the game.

Overall that "pusnishment" that you are fighting against is something that makes the game far more enjoyable for the majority of the player base.

Further, when was FAILING a mission and losing everything you gained a "punishment"?  thats just a side effect of actually FAILING, not a punishment.

[Pave]

Once again: We didn't ask for this punishment. I, for one, didn't mind people aborting in the middle of the missions; more loot and money for me.

 

I'm also one those players who don't keep farming singular bosses in hopes of getting boss specific-blueprints and materials; I've gotten everything I want and need so far by just playing this game at my own pace, instead of just rushing or "farming" (I.E. repeating same singular mission over and over again in long succession).

 

Hell, if the only worry about Assassination / Boss-missions is that people just abort instantly after killing the boss, perhaps the whole mission-type needs an overhaul how it ends? Instead of just having the imaginary need of getting to extraction point, why not make the mission just end when the boss is killed? The forces are already demoralized, because their "boss" got killed (similiar thing could be done to Extermination-missions (the stucture / territory is already cleared of enemies, do there's no hurry getting out anymore).

 

Yeah, next of course it's said how do everyone get the loot them. It's very simple: Get rid of it. Get rid of the arbitrary need of picking up these loot that get stuck and "poofs" into air. "Clone loot" is suggestable. But remove the need of "slowing down" and add the items into inventory automatically to players who are playing.

 

It's odd though: Warframe at the moment is the only that doesn't allow me to keep the loot when programming errors  and developer oversights keep preventing finishing missions...but then again, they don't want this game to fun anymore... not even for the sake of testing...after all, they only want to reward players who are play this game 24/7-with "perfection" and those who are being bestowed by the RNG-gods...

 

Like it was said back in April: Don't punish everyone just because a group of players exploited / "were in hurry" due your own faulty system; no one is not going to happy for this change, and that's still true...but then again, DE-folks has always liked beating up their players...

Edited August 2, 2013 by Pave

[Liminal]

Uh.....

 

So you're saying you want people running to a boss, not finding what they want, and aborting the mission then and there AND getting to keep resources, mods, and credit drops they found in the mission?

 

Is that seriously what you're saying should happen?

 

Do you want people entering an Endless Defense Mission, smashing all the containers open, and then aborting mission, and then going back in to farm resources?

 

Do you want to join a game in which the host runs to the boss, kills the boss and immediately disconnects, leaving you in the dust?

 

Are you seriously saying you want these things to happen?

I agree with you, but what you are saying could be solved in another way: make the boss the last thing in a mission.

The boss fight should be the last thing you do in a mission, it should be the high point and you should leave immediately (probably even automatically with a cutscene) after defeating the big baddie.

Having to run all the way to extraction after a boss fight takes away from the flow of the (very limited) narrative in said missions. It definitely makes bosses feel less important.

[Xylia]

Once again: We didn't ask for this punishment. I, for one, didn't mind people aborting in the middle of the missions; more loot and money for me.

 

Who is "We"?

 

How do you know who asked for what?

 

Do you know the opinions of every single player around?

 

Had I been playing then (I started just after that update), I would have asked for it, about the first or second time someone quit a boss mission before I had a chance to pick anything up.

 

I'm also one those players who don't keep farming singular bosses in hopes of getting boss specific-blueprints and materials; I've gotten everything I want and need so far by just playing this game at my own pace, instead of just rushing or "farming" (I.E. repeating same singular mission over and over again in long succession).

 

Because YOU don't farm bosses don't mean others don't. MANY people farm bosses to get their blueprints that they want. It is the only non-platinum way to get a Warframe other than Vauban or Banshee.

 

Hell, if the only worry about Assassination / Boss-missions is that people just abort instantly after killing the boss, perhaps the whole mission-type needs an overhaul how it ends? Instead of just having the imaginary need of getting to extraction point, why not make the mission just end when the boss is killed? The forces are already demoralized, because their "boss" got killed (similiar thing could be done to Extermination-missions (the stucture / territory is already cleared of enemies, do there's no hurry getting out anymore).

 

That's just it, it isn't JUST about Assassination. What about Defense? Run in, grab all the containers, abort without even having to do to Wave 5. What about Orokin Tower? Get a Tower1 Key, kill everything, loot all the rooms, crash the game/alt+f4/pull the ethernet plug and then go back in and do it again. Who needs to farm keys?

 

As far as changing boss missions...... the current model works just fine.

 

Yeah, next of course it's said how do everyone get the loot them. It's very simple: Get rid of it. Get rid of the arbitrary need of picking up these loot that get stuck and "poofs" into air. "Clone loot" is suggestable. But remove the need of "slowing down" and add the items into inventory automatically to players who are playing.

 

It'd be nice, but meh. Current model works.

 

It's odd though: Warframe at the moment is the only that doesn't allow me to keep the loot when programming errors  and developer oversights keep preventing finishing missions...but then again, they don't want this game to fun anymore... not even for the sake of testing...after all, they only want to reward players who are play this game 24/7-with "perfection" and those who are being bestowed by the RNG-gods...

 

Beta game is Beta. You "signed" (or, rather, agreed) to a Terms of Service that said "This is a Beta Game, Bugs will Happen, We Are Not Responsible For Any Lost Items or other crap."

 

Did you not READ it when you clicked "I ACCEPT"?

 

And it doesn't take "Perfection" to make it to the end of mission door. I'm hardly a perfect person. I failed a few missions, I had to abort a few. My in-game stats say I've got a 96% Mission Success rate.

 

96% is pretty dang good for a Beta game and the fact that you can actually die in missions and fail (esp Defense/Rescue missions).

 

Like it was said back in April: Don't punish everyone just because a group of players exploited / "were in hurry" due your own faulty system; no one is not going to happy for this change, and that's still true...but then again, DE-folks always liked beating up their players...

 

I'm happy for the change.

Several players in both threads are happy for the change.

Many thousands of players who played Warframe who had to experience the "Host Bails" crap are probably happy for the change.

 

They fixed an EXPLOIT as Developers are wont to do. Deal with it.

[Xylia]

I agree with you, but what you are saying could be solved in another way: make the boss the last thing in a mission.

The boss fight should be the last thing you do in a mission, it should be the high point and you should leave immediately (probably even automatically with a cutscene) after defeating the big baddie.

Having to run all the way to extraction after a boss fight takes away from the flow of the (very limited) narrative in said missions. It definitely makes bosses feel less important.

 

 

Except it isn't JUST boss missions that'd be affected. What about Void and the endless farming of Void Mods?

[TheBulitt]

I AM SO SICK OF RUSHING RAGE QUITTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tsukinoki]

@TheBulitt
And that is a sentiment shared by a majority of the player base.

At least with the change that they made in that update they cant just quit and not lose anything, meaning that most pugs are now actually able to complete a mission.

[Xylia]

As it is, we STILL get people who bail the second they see the boss didn't drop what they want unless they got a rare mod they actually cared about.

[Pave]

Go Private or finish mission, your choise; it works today, and it worked even back then.

 

If a portion of players kept aborting during online mode, well that was their loss. Other players were just fine getting to the extraction, or just giving up the mission completion bonus.

If they kept aboring while soloing, I.E. there was no other players in the mission or they hsoting a private mission, no one was "hurt".

 

It just shows the incompetence of the devs they allowed such thing to be exploited during public-online-missions. They could had just added a cooldown for aborting or something similiar for online-matches. Bam! I just said one much better solution already. Instead Warframe-dev-team decided to just to piss on their players for no reason, just because they could.

 

None of the times I have done Assassination (mainly during Alerts or to progress to next planet) have I've seeen anyone abort as soon as teh boss was killed; this was also before the mission-completion credit bonus-buff.

 

Again, who or what supposedly benefit from from this punishment again? Oh wait, we already know: No thing. It's just one of numerous ways to screw over players for no reason.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Pave

[Xylia]

Go Private or finish mission, your choise; it works today, and it worked even back then.

 

Okay, so if I join an Online game expecting to go in and kill Lech Kril, where I'm powerful enough to meaningfully contribute to the kill, but yet not quite strong enough to handle the mobs solo, I go in there and its just me and the other person.....and he bails the moment Kril dies and doesn't drop the thing he wants, but yet I want to finish the mission, I'm left there by myself with nobody to help me get to extraction?

 

Seriously?

 

They shouldn't get all the crap they got from the mission if they're going to just bail and leave me to fend for myself. They should at least have to pay for that.

 

The current system does just that. They have to forfeit everything they found, which is fair.

 

If a portion of players kept aborting during online mode, well that was their loss. Other players were just fine getting to the extraction, or just giving up the mission completion bonus.

If they kept aboring while soloing, I.E. there was no other players in the mission or they hsoting a private mission, no one was "hurt".

 

You hurt game integrity when you allow exploits to go unfixed.

 

Would YOU like it if a bunch of players found an exploit that handed everybody a Lv30 weapon in 2-3 minutes, allowing them to 8x forma their weapon in <30min, while you had to slog away for hours to do the same thing?

 

Would you like a game in which a few people could exploit the game and get hundreds of Void Mods with a single key while you had to keep farming keys to get the same thing?

 

It just shows the incompetence of the devs they allowed such thing to be exploited during public-online-missions. They could had just added a cooldown for aborting or something similiar for online-matches. Bam! I just said one much better solution already. Instead Warframe-dev-team decided to just to &!$$ on their players for no reason, just because they could.

 

"For No Reason"?

 

They picked the solution that was...

 

1). Effective.

2). Feasible to implement (seriously are you saying YOU know how to game's code works?)

3). As fair as possible in as many situations as possible (sure sometimes you have to abort a mission due to a crash, but well. Beta is Beta).

 

None of the times I have done Assassination (mainly during Alerts or to progress to next planet) have I've seeen anyone abort as soon as teh boss was killed; this was also before the mission-completion credit bonus-buff.

 

Then you must be ridiculously lucky, or you only went with clanmates and never did PUGs. The problem was widespread from what I've heard from many players.

 

Again, who or what supposedly benefit from from this punishment again? Oh wait, we already know: No thing. It's just one of numerous ways to screw over players for no reason.

 

Every stinking person who plays in PUGs, especially those going in for Assassination missions.

 

Fixing an Exploit makes the game enjoyable for everybody who didn't use said exploit.

 

That is why they do that in the first place.

[Pave]

Let's ask it this way then:

What do you supporters of this punishment benefit then?

 

So far most of the defence has only relied on lack of skills.

Why would you even go on to missions with under levelled-equipments if you can't even handle the basic enemies on the level, while still believing to be meaningfully contribute against a boss? The sense of logic in that statement simply is baffling: This is simply underestimating your own abilities, not the fault of players who exploited the system.

((Looters vs Rushers-debate is off-topic in this thread, mind you.))

 

Oh, and then there's thing where players can solo all the bosses. While i've only done this with few of the bosses myself, I still believe no thing (since I include AI as a party too) did lose due players aborting as soon as they killed the boss. And the player who aborted, didn't get their mission completion bonus (i know this has been said countless times of before, but apparently that was not a "loss").

 

Yes, I'm soloing for the most part, because I actually do have skills and time to do so. Only missions I tend play in groups are +50-level missions alongside with Defences and (mainly lvl +50) Assassinations, since you keep questioning of my knowledge and skills of playing this game, there's your answer.

 

 

So in the end it still stand: No thing has won so far and won't win thanks to this punishment, especially since according to some posts seen on this thread, the aborting still happens.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Pave

[Tsukinoki]

@Pave

If the HOST left the mission (which was 90% of PUGs) Then you DIDNT get any rewards.  Only the people that had bailed before the host did got anything.  So most of the time 3 out of 4 people didnt get ANY rewards.
How is that fair to 3 out of 4 players?  They go through the mission and do all the work and get ZERO rewards?
So yes it hurt PUGs a lot.

And you claim to know the code better than the devs?  Or the efforts required in programming?  Get off of your faking high horse and stop feeling so self important.

And you were lucky.  It was 80-90% of pugs that had the host drop out as soon as the boss died, even in alerts, that screwed people out of the rewards.

And who benefits?  PUGs and vast majority of players who play in them.
Who suffers?  The people who rushed to the boss loot and quit before anyone else could get any.

And why do I like it?  Maybe because the host doesnt leave meaning that people can actually complete a PUG mission now.  thats kinda big in an online game.
There are people that, guess what, in an online game actually like playing online.  And being able to actually have a decent chance of finishing the mission without the host quitting and screwing everyone over on rewards is a HUGE thing.

Maybe you should stop being so selfish and thinking "If I never had a problem with it, it must not have been a problem at all" because that is rarely the case.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[Xylia]

Let's ask it this way then:

 

What do you supporters of this punishment benefit then?

 

I benefit from...

 

1). Not having players disconnect from the game as soon as what they want didn't drop

2). Not having to play a game where people could exploit the game/quit missions whenever they like and still get rewards

 

 

 

So far most of the defence has only relied on lack of skills.

Why would you even go on to missions with under levelled-equipments if you can't even handle the basic enemies on the level, while still believing to be meaningfully contribute against a boss? The sense of logic in that statement simply is baffling: This is simply underestimating your own abilities, not the fault of players who exploited the system.

((Looters vs Rushers-debate is off-topic in this thread, mind you.))

 

Lech Kril is a bullet sponge, for example. What happens when I blow most of my ammo on my GOOD gun to take him out, and then the other players leave the mission and I'm left with very little ammo remaining for example?

 

What if I bring a weapon or a Warframe that is well-suited to fighting the boss but has very little defensive capabilities and doesn't survive well on its own, you know, like Mag? Mag is weak and useless by herself. The only time she's good is when she's in a team.

 

A team I don't have if people bail as soon as Kril didn't drop what they wanted.

 

 

 

Oh, and then there's thing where players can solo all the bosses. While i've only done this with few of the bosses myself, I still believe no thing (since I include AI as a party too) did lose due players aborting as soon as they killed the boss. And the player who aborted, didn't get their mission completion bonus (i know this has been said countless times of before, but apparently that was not a "loss").

 

SOME players can solo all the bosses.

 

SOME.

 

What about those of us who don't have 8x Forma'd weapons with maxed out Nightmare Mods and crap? We should have to suffer because of you QUITTERS who can't bear to finish the freaking level?

 

 

 

 

So in the end it still stand: No thing has won so far and won't win thanks to this punishment, especially since according to some posts seen on this thread, the aborting still happens.

It happens a heck of a lot less often than it did before 7.8. SOMETIMES you'll get impatient pricks who just can't bear to finish a mission (OOOOOOOOO THE HORROR 3 MINUTES TO RUN TO THE EXIT OMG OMG OMG).

 

Get over yourself, Pave.

 

You're just an impatient jerk who wants to quit as soon as what you want didn't drop. *rolls eyes*

 

Quitters should not be rewarded.

 

FINISH THE MISSION and just stop posting. They're not going to change their mind.

 

This is a ridiculous thread that really should be locked because it is a horse that has been beaten to death thoroughly. The only people who protest the 7.8 punishment are the very people who were guilty of exploiting it in the first place, but then that should be no surprise, eh!?

 

Exploiters got what was coming to them.

 

Working as intended.

 

You're supposed to be a Tenno, not a whiny little quitter. Start acting like one.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Xylia

[TheHeraldXII]

This "punishment "is basic logical design. Sure, sometimes a bug will prevent you from getting a reward but that's no reason to take out any penalty for failure. When you fail a task you do not get a reward, when you complete a task you do. What is wrong with that logic exactly? Why should players get rewarded for failing a task or abandoning it halfway through? Doesn't that mean that completing missions is kind of a formality for people who enjoy immersion rather than a task that actually requires completion. If you get rewards from abort/failing a mission, why even put an extraction in? Players can just grab what they want and abort.

[Xylia]

This "punishment "is basic logical design. Sure, sometimes a bug will prevent you from getting a reward but that's no reason to take out any penalty for failure. When you fail a task you do not get a reward, when you complete a task you do. What is wrong with that logic exactly? Why should players get rewarded for failing a task or abandoning it halfway through? Doesn't that mean that completing missions is kind of a formality for people who enjoy immersion rather than a task that actually requires completion. If you get rewards from abort/failing a mission, why even put an extraction in? Players can just grab what they want and abort.

 

Not to mention Lore reasons.

 

Why would the Lotus reward a bunch of whiny little quitters who don't want to do a mission every time they're faced with a 2nd objective, or when the boss didn't have a specific item on his person at any given time?

[Pave]

Funny how you keep bringing up once again non-exisitng issues / coding mistakes, that have been fixed long time ago already: Ever heard of "host migration"?

 

In other words, you're saying that the developers just wanted to cover their incompetence for not having functioning host migration back then by introducing unnessary punishment for rest of us more "casual" players instead of just fixing the function?

 

Which translates into: Incompetent developers with the lack of coding solution knowledge back then decided punish their players because a group of players were smart and found a loophole...How smooth and classy...

Edited August 2, 2013 by Pave

[Xylia]

Funny how you keep bringing up once again non-exisitng issues / coding mistakes, that have been fixed long time ago already: Ever heard of "host migration"?

 

In other words, you're saying that the developers just wanted to cover their incompetence for not having functioning host migration back then by introducing unnessary punishment for rest of us more "casual" players instead of just fixing the function? How smooth and classy...

 

Void Keys didn't exist back then, either.

 

The fix they introduced back then, prevented a future exploit, as well -- entering missions, collecting void-specific mods, and then bailing before the mission is done to get as many mods as you'd ever want without spending a single key.

 

It is called Prevention.

 

1 Ounce of Prevention is worth 1 Pound of Cure.

 

Ever heard of that?

 

Fixing an EXPLOIT (yes, abandoning a mission mid-way and getting rewards is an EXPLOIT, like it or not) is necessary for game balance, both today and tomorrow.

 

You should not be rewarded for aborting mid-mission, Ever.

 

You argue "b-b-b-but what about failed missions because of bugs?"

 

Beta is Beta.

 

You are guaranteed nothing in a Beta. You KNEW this was a Beta when you signed up. And besides, seriously, are a few missions here-and-there really enough to make you all that rage-quit and crap? Seriously?

 

I have some 700 missions under my belt now. 30 of them were "Failed" missions, and I think 10 of them I quit (a few because of bugs/impossible to get through doors, etc and a couple times because IRL interrupted me as soon as I started a mission, and 1-2 times I quit because I was tired of Cryo Cryo Cryo Cryo every time I went after a boss).

 

It says 94% now, instead of 96%... I think it was because of a couple times I failed a Defense mission or three because of random PUGs being silly.

 

It isn't the end of the world.

 

Like I said earlier:

 

FINISH YOUR FREAKING MISSION.

 

If it bugged out on you? Send the EE.log and do another and STOP WHINING.

 

Seriously.