Why People Quit

[Mietz]

Well I can't help people who are narrow-minded on the pure negative side. Of course you don't have to/can't do their designwork! 

 

Let's explain it with an example:

 

A new infestation-creature is pink and doesn't fit into the game, because its legs are also too short.

 

Negative Criticism:

Why is this pink? It looks awful! And his legs rofl. It's like a hobbit or some kind of smurf. :D

 

Positive Criticism:

Wow, nice mob! But I suggest some changes, because it looks a bit wierd. Change the pink to something greenish/black and could you change the legs' size? It's a bit small and it just doesn't seem to fit into the game. :/

 

Both are horrible because none of them are actual arguments for anything else than personal opinion.

The tone of the criticism is entirely irrelevant as both criticisms have no value in of themselves. In both cases DE doesn't actually know what is wrong with the creature beyond a declaration of preference of one poster.

 

Lets assume the creature is mechanically broken and its short legs get stuck in terrain.

 

"Your @(*()$ infested design is pathetic! Who designed this S#&$? The unit frequently gets stuck in terrain seams or falls through it, we can't even finish extermination missions because the unit is stuck in the mother@(*()$ terrain. FIX IT!"

 

"The unit is mechanically broken due to its short legs, its frequently falling through terrain making it impossible to complete certain missions."

 

Both criticisms are entirely valid and valuable, they address the same problem in a precise manner.

 

Now, please stop derailing this topic with your tone trolling. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tone_troll

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

And negative criticism isn't going to help DE either. Use constructive criticism. List the mistakes, in a friendly and nice tone, suggest solutions, etc.

 

You just complain about it. Without any helpful feedback. Try to let go of your harsh criticism and start putting something positive in it.

Actually negative criticism is more likely to help DE than patting them on the &#!. Harsh feedback generally promotes faster responses IE: see the rhino nerf issue as opposed to wishy washy responses where people don't even sound like they know what they want which results with the devs being able to get away on passing by the issue for eternity.

 

DE are big boys and girls, they don't need pats on the &#!. We are their beta testers, if they couldn't handle a few harsh words and phrases then they wouldn't have bothered to begin with.

[Sekkeisha]

Both are horrible because none of them are actual arguments for anything else than personal opinion.

The tone of the criticism is entirely irrelevant as both criticisms have no value in of themselves. In both cases DE doesn't actually know what is wrong with the creature beyond a declaration of preference of one poster.

 

Lets assume the creature is mechanically broken and its short legs get stuck in terrain.

 

"Your @(*()$ infested design is pathetic! Who designed this S#&$? The unit frequently gets stuck in terrain seams or falls through it, we can't even finish extermination missions because the unit is stuck in the mother@(*()$ terrain. FIX IT!"

 

"The unit is mechanically broken due to its short legs, its frequently falling through terrain making it impossible to complete certain missions."

 

Both criticisms are entirely valid and valuable, they address the same problem in a precise manner.

 

Now, please stop derailing this topic with your tone trolling. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tone_troll

Tone Troll? Really? Maybe my Criticism example was not clear enough/not detailed enough. Your examples are better. Although the positive criticism is way more constructive and people are way more willing to react to your comment positively. I'm done for now, because I don't think you understand me. You even say I'm a troll. 

[Sekkeisha]

Actually negative criticism is more likely to help DE than patting them on the &#!. Harsh feedback generally promotes faster responses IE: see the rhino nerf issue as opposed to wishy washy responses where people don't even sound like they know what they want which results with the devs being able to get away on passing by the issue for eternity.

 

DE are big boys and girls, they don't need pats on the &#!. We are their beta testers, if they couldn't handle a few harsh words and phrases then they wouldn't have bothered to begin with.

Oh well, you obviously can't see it from their angle of view, Narrow-Minded Tenno. Yes we don't need to eat cake play funny games and be happy together. 

 

But related to you: Would you, during a stressful day, rather like positive criticism or negatice criticism? Of course positive, as much as you may deny that. You may accept both kinds of criticism, but the negative one may frustrate you. Even if it's just a tiny, tiny tiny tiny little bit. It still adds up.

Saying one or two nice words feels way more comfortable for everyone. Not gonna argue anymore, this is offtopic.

[legionufo]

Oh well! no need fight each other men just answer the topic name "Why people quit"

 

PS:sorry my bad English.

[Mietz]

My reasons.

 

I generally tend to not like to play games for intrinsic rewards like loot or levels, I play for the gameplay. If the gameplay is satisfying I will return to the game over and over, I will also purchase it or things in it (if f2p). This doesn't mean that I don't like intrinsic rewards, no, I do like them, but they must be connected to my gameplay experience and enhance/change it.  An example of a good reward is the acquisition of Warframes as it switches up my gameplay, or the addition of Thunderbolt mod on my Paris as it changes the functionality of my bow significantly (even if it blows late-game). Bad rewards are power mods that just add numbers to my weapons/warframes.

 

Additionally I don't think the basic gameplay is rewarding or interesting enough to carry the game without rewards. If you were to offer everyone all frames, fully formad, for free, this game would implode because the gameplay itself is stagnant when you leave Earth or even Venus.

Warframe currently is played for the rewards, but not the gameplay itself.

 

This is why I quit, there is nothing here to do besides collect items to then be able to collect more items.

[scavenge]

The game definately does get boring. Doesn't mean it's a bad game, means it just doesn't offer much for high-end players and the things it offers (VOID III) keys are being trolled by RNG.

 

So yeah, it's in beta, we'll see.

[Jamescell]

There's always someone who is so sensitive about warframe they tell the people with suggestions to quit because they are insecure about their own ideas to improve the game.

[Jamescell]

Again, I feel like implementing a thorough tutorial is the first and easiest step to giving new players a basic understanding of the game. A tutorial that points out different combat features combined with a fun sequence of training. And an explanatory tutorial for modding, the foundry, etc. so people know what all the bland boxes if HUD do.

[Jamescell]

I also agree that DE should stop focusing on skana and lato reskins and really focus on laying out a solid thorough groundwork. Update 9 was supposed to do this, instead DE decided the most important update was going to be rushed and ill-developed. For the most part they didn't listen to any player feedback regarding the basics of the game that need fixing. Let me just list a few. We need redone abilities, get rid of all the one or two target damage abilities an replace them with something unique. Replace abilities that are inferior copies of others. Add more movement and fix the existing choppyness. Add special features to every weapon, so that we don't get the same thing over and over with different stats, add more things like the kogake, glaive, thunderbolt, etc. improve enemy AI. Make each tile set big enough so that certain rooms are never spawned twice in the same mission. There are allot of issues like these that could be fixed with some basic effort by simply re prioritizing and doing the work the DEVs aren't doing to nail the fundamental basics of the game. Sent from phone so I probably have so wierd grammatical errors and typos.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Jamescell

[Ob1Kn00b]

You're absolutely right. But just like you, many people forget this game is still in Open Beta. It will change alot until it's finally officially released.

 

The DE Staff, as well as the Masters and Grandmasters on this Community work on new stuff to be released, while all the other players help to improve everything that already exists. 

 

Here's the thing about the beta: when you put your game on steam, and open it up to microtransactions, the fact that it's theoretically in beta doesn't matter anymore.  The simple fact is that it's a product put up for sale on a large scale, and if they didn't want it being treated as a finished product, then they shouldn't have those microtransactions in.

[Sekkeisha]

Here's the thing about the beta: when you put your game on steam, and open it up to microtransactions, the fact that it's theoretically in beta doesn't matter anymore.  The simple fact is that it's a product put up for sale on a large scale, and if they didn't want it being treated as a finished product, then they shouldn't have those microtransactions in.

Those "microtransactions" are here to keep the game alive and the production running. You don't have to buy anything. 

[arch111]

My suggestion is to have a red thread as you level up and defeat the bosses.

Why do we fight?

Why is it important to get all frames?

Do we get a Prize when we have all?

Is the only way out of the solarsystem to get some artifact2?

When will we remember?

It would add alot to the universe of the game, if each planet had a story and a end goal.

Each planet would be part of the greater whole.

The alerts and events is the only current tool for this.

What if that system was applied to the progression?

By doing missions we get knowledge, unlock content, getting us involved.

Besides this, the hard core and vet players are very good at scaring off noobs.

All the complaining does not help either.

[gell]

People really need to understand why players quit, and DE should make the call whether or not they should address those reasons.

 

Like the OP, I know quite a few people who quit. It doesn't matter that it's "in beta." Sure, the players may come back, or they might not. It's still in DE's best interest to understand why someone left. If those quitting players don't make a thread, and if we don't talk about it, DE will be left in the dark and do nothing about it.

 

 

You can't make everyone happy, there's always someone to criticize

 

That doesn't matter. Understanding why someone quit is not the same as making changes to stop them from quitting. But just knowing why gives DE information and it's up to them whether or not they should address it. e.g. If someone quit because they didn't like 3rd person shooting and playing vs AI mobs, there's not much DE can do or should do to help this person. It's just not a game for them. However, if someone quit because they felt the game was too grindy (not suggesting this, this is just an example), then DE could look at what feels too grindy and try to alleviate that somewhat.

 

So why did some of my friends quit?

 

- Too repetitive. Running the same missions in different skins, but really all the same mission. Raid, Capture, Deception, etc. They're all just running to one point, grab a thing or press the "USE" button, and then leave. It's not really different. DE is aware of this and making changes, but this is still their feedback (also keeping in mind some of these friends played in closed beta over 6 months ago back when I started).

 

- No narrative drive to play. They may think the combat is fun, but without any real story-driven reason to play, some friends stopped playing. DE has the "lore" section now, but that's really nothing. It satisfies someone's curiosity about the lore but it doesn't do anything to drive why someone is going from one node to another on many planets fighting 3 different factions. People may think "story" is not a very necessary part of games, but when games like Warframe make it so blatantly obvious the game is lacking any form of good storytelling, players quit. We don't need Metal Gear Solid 4 hour cutscenes, but what we do need is for Lotus (or someone) to give players a reason to go to Saturn, or to go to Jupiter. No, alerts are just gamey ways to make you play something (i.e. resource gathering) but they aren't narrative directives to get the player going. It would feel more engaging if Lotus sometimes told a player, "There's word that the Corpus have gathered on Ares (Mars) and are planning something. Get me some intel." When you get there, you basically do whatever mission type it is (spy), and when you get to extraction, and this is important, there is a brief cutscene like there is when you start a mission. Intro: See the ship fly in, Tenno drop in from magical vents. Outro: Tenno ship flies off while Corpus are sucked out the ship's extraction vacuum. Or if it's a mission where you destroy the reactor, the Outro is the Tenno ship flying away while the ship explodes. It would satisfy players a lot better. More advanced ideas might be ways to fail missions, but that's another topic (one example might be if you set off the alarm 3 times, the Corpus will bring in a Hyena to take you out, but again this is less narrative and more dynamic game content).

 

- Game feels too grindy/farmy. This is basically the repetitive reason, however it differs in that they were people who already play repetitive games, just not grindy ones. Granted WF is not grindy compared to some F2P or MMOs I've played, but there's still some grind. Is this something DE needs to address? It's mostly in the RNG and DE knows it. Feeling like you can't do anything after 100 runs of not getting something is not fun, even if you have patience. You wonder if it'll come after another 100 runs. You could be lucky and get all the drops you wanted in 3 runs, or you could be unlucky and eventually quit due to feeling helpless.

 

- Game is forcing players to pay platinum for some things that should be available for credits. This is a touchy subject, often met with the response, "the developers need to make money!!" This is often a poor argument to cover up a dev's poor planning or experimentation. Players have only two currencies they can invest in any game: money and time. For whatever reasons, they may not want to do one or the other all the time (I'm a Master Founder who also bought plat on Steam, but I think some things should cost credits and not plat). DE has to allow players the option to obtain all things in either form. How does this make money if something doesn't cost plat? By giving players a reason to obtain plat from other players, they drive the sales of plat. Some games do this with a currency exchange market. Other games do it with real money markets. Many games have trading. I know DE is planning a form of market where you can sell mods/items for plat. Of course, this plat has to be bought from DE (aside from starting plat), so this seems like it will be a decent option for players who don't want to pay for plat, but have the time to spend. I prefer the currency exchange, but we'll see where the market thing goes. Players should never feel that there's a pay wall somewhere, or very very rarely. You might even argue that cosmetics is ok, but I would disagree. Games need to allow players options, because if they are out of money, or just don't want to spend it, and they don't have the option of investing time, what are they left with? They're left with quitting, and while you might say "good riddance," I don't think DE would like that.

 

- And some folks quit because they feel the game is too unfinished, and will try again later. This is fine, and hopefully DE will make a big splash later. We know it's beta, my friends know it's beta, but what's fun is fun and what isn't fun makes people quit.

[direcyphre]

To the OP, from what I'm reading, you want what DE is already implementing? The tutorial is only the start and will be udpated, but they opted to add the option to get the ball rolling. Obviously it needs a lot of other 'modules' to teach people the basics of things like parkour. New content is also arriving in an episodic fashion, as was pointed out in previous livestreams with 'Vor's Prize' showing up in the Lore section. There will be a storyline to follow and decisions to be made that may effect what you do next. A lot of the concentration on the game up until now was more functionality and general content (because the original assortment of weapons were pretty bland), but the Lore, plot, and more interesting content are coming soon.

 

 

Both are horrible because none of them are actual arguments for anything else than personal opinion.

The tone of the criticism is entirely irrelevant as both criticisms have no value in of themselves. In both cases DE doesn't actually know what is wrong with the creature beyond a declaration of preference of one poster.

 

Lets assume the creature is mechanically broken and its short legs get stuck in terrain.

 

"Your @(*()$ infested design is pathetic! Who designed this S#&$? The unit frequently gets stuck in terrain seams or falls through it, we can't even finish extermination missions because the unit is stuck in the mother@(*()$ terrain. FIX IT!"

 

"The unit is mechanically broken due to its short legs, its frequently falling through terrain making it impossible to complete certain missions."

 

Both criticisms are entirely valid and valuable, they address the same problem in a precise manner.

 

Now, please stop derailing this topic with your tone trolling. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tone_troll

Actually what you just described is called a 'bug report' and the second line there is certainly the more professional and mature way of doing so. This is no way relates to feedback with regard to gameplay or the assets therein.

 

 

Here's the thing about the beta: when you put your game on steam, and open it up to microtransactions, the fact that it's theoretically in beta doesn't matter anymore.  The simple fact is that it's a product put up for sale on a large scale, and if they didn't want it being treated as a finished product, then they shouldn't have those microtransactions in.

Incorrect, there are already a slew of 'early access' titles for sale on Steam. Literally you are purchasing a game in beta, usually for the sake of development costs from small indie developers. Warframe is free to begin with and costs nothing unless you want to. Would I have literally bought Warframe the game if it went through Steam's Greenlight and early access program? Heck yeah! Even since the early days when I started, before wallrunning and other fancy things, it was still a fun game.

[Jugganatha]

I started playing back in April, and the tutorial was just you in a white room with Lotus barking orders at you back then. Watching a friend of mine start up a new account, I saw that the tutorial section now takes place with you awaking from cryosleep and being forced to find your bearings while escaping from Vor and his mooks. After my friend got out of the Void room and ran through a small forward base the Grineer has set up outside, he entered a cuscene (emphasis: CUTSCENE OMGOMGOMGOMG) where he was incapacitated by Vor but rescued by fellow Tenno at the same time. Compared to other games, the experience may have been lacking. As soon as the cutscene was over, my friend could enter the starmap and play around in the foundry as if being knocked out was completely inconsequential. Compared to the rest of Warframe, however, I was stunned (and tbh felt kinda cheated since I no longer have the option to reset and experience that).

 

The lore page is ok-ish for now, yes, but in the long run players are going to need to experience lore elements in game, and that needs to happen extremely soon so that new players aren't alienated from this game because it feels empty before its even released. This is all besides the gameplay still needing polish btw.

 

By itself, Lanka is its own reward, but now I must ask myself, what do I do with such a masterfully slaying god cannon at my fingertips?

[gell]

Incorrect, there are already a slew of 'early access' titles for sale on Steam. Literally you are purchasing a game in beta, usually for the sake of development costs from small indie developers. Warframe is free to begin with and costs nothing unless you want to. Would I have literally bought Warframe the game if it went through Steam's Greenlight and early access program? Heck yeah! Even since the early days when I started, before wallrunning and other fancy things, it was still a fun game.

 

That's not entirely true though. While WF is F2P and you aren't actually forced to pay money, it's often the only option to get some things in the game, some things like the incredibly convenient warframe or weapon slots. You may call this a luxury, but it's still unobtainable in any other way. So the option here is delete things, something players don't like to do and is a bad business decision to ask of players, or the player quits.

Warframe is not the same as many of Steam's early access games. Micro-transactions that could be completely reversed due to "beta reasons" makes WF just a released game that is unpolished. We may differ with semantics here, but the moment you charge players for things,  you do have an obligation to keep those things from changing too much. DE might do a heavy balance pass though, since the game is still growing, but there's no easy way to get a refund on anything. I hear DE support is really nice about refunding plat for accidental purchases, but what about them totally changing how something works, or looks? Sure, many games with micro-transactions make changes, but for better or worse, they try to keep those things from affecting the value of those bought items. DE only promised that if a reset occurs, all plat will be refunded. But there's no guarantee on if they release a weapon that is difficult to obtain, you pay plat for it, then decide after 2 days to give it to everyone for free because hey it's beta balancing, that you'll get anything refunded. Betas are for getting a lot of things ironed out. Because of that, they also need to have easy ways to refund plat. If it's a beta, it needs to be extremely simple to get refunds to since we're supposedly "testing" the game. So let us test the plat purchasing too without fear of losing it.

 

The difference with early development games on Steam or elsewhere is most of those only charge you once. DE will keep charging for more things while the game is still unfinished, without a simple way to retract a purchase. They're trying to have their cake and eat it too. While you may accept this, don't act like it's a common practice (it's becoming more common, but from other games I've played, the devs are very unwilling to change something that's been paid for due to  understanding that you don't drastically change something something paid for, and if you do, you give them the option to refund the cost). DE doesn't have that option so I find DE's approach unique, and not in a good way.

[Mietz]

On the topic of beta and cash-shop, this is the official stance from the FAQ:

 

 

If its really about testing the Market, why didn't we -test- free Warframe slots (for X amount of time)?

Why don't we -test- foundry rush-jobs scaling in platinum cost?

Why don't we -test- all the suggestions for the shop that have been brought up?

 

Yes, we did change potatoes, like, 6 months back, since then? Nothing.

[Bones98]

a common complaint is that the levels are repetitive. There's no variety of environments. You got Galleon, Corpus Outpost, Corpus Ship, Cave, and a couple more - that's it.

There needs to be more variety for enemies, more factions, and game modes that will allow more than 4 people to play. It would be cool to see a 24 player game where every faction (Tenno, Grineer, Corpus, Infested, etc...) is in an all-out war.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

I also agree that DE should stop focusing on skana and lato reskins and really focus on laying out a solid thorough groundwork. Update 9 was supposed to do this, instead DE decided the most important update was going to be rushed and ill-developed. For the most part they didn't listen to any player feedback regarding the basics of the game that need fixing.

Almost like this is a running theme, just like every other update.

[Jamescell]

Sent from phone- may have strange phrasing or run on things. There also needs to be more optional immersion, we carry out mission after mission trying to collect items in a reality we aren't even familiar with. There are no defined planetary tile sets, (the corpus outpost is not on any specific planet), and the locations of our missions are little star dots near planets. I suggest (my opinion) planetary outposts for each world, giving a preview to the environment on the planet, and the kind of civilization that exists between the Grineer and Corpus. These outposts would feature resource shops and planet-unique weapon blueprints. There isn't even a designated place for Tenno to exist outside of mission, (don't even mention the dojo), and fighting for a cause while in limbo reality can be frustrating. Lastly, could we please get more planet-side tile sets? I think maps on an actual worlds offer more potential for expansion, unique environments, and more satisfactory game-play, these maps would also lay out more "reality" for us.

[DirkDeadeye]

I'm still playing the same game I was playing in closed beta.

 

Just more of it. The last thing they changed fundementally was the mod system in U7.

 

After that, it's just more weapons, frames, tiles.

 

Void missions are still the same game, just in a different tile set. Now I just have to play the game more to access those missions to access more weapons, to play the same content I've been playing since closed beta.

 

If it wasin't for my clan I would've stopped playing months ago. But they're bored of it..so I really haven't a reason to play any more

[Jugganatha]

I'm still playing the same game I was playing in closed beta.

 

Just more of it. The last thing they changed fundementally was the mod system in U7.

 

After that, it's just more weapons, frames, tiles.

 

Void missions are still the same game, just in a different tile set. Now I just have to play the game more to access those missions to access more weapons, to play the same content I've been playing since closed beta.

 

If it wasin't for my clan I would've stopped playing months ago. But they're bored of it..so I really haven't a reason to play any more

It sounds almost heretical to say, but maybe DE should re-close this game and put it through a massive re-dev phase before trying to expand on it.

[JSTboi]

People demand too much of DE. I've played many online games, you have no idea how beautiful this community is and how well DE is doing compared to other games.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

People demand too much of DE. I've played many online games, you have no idea how beautiful this community is and how well DE is doing compared to other games.

The community is full of elitists who want things just so others can't have them and DE's about on par with any other dev in terms of making changes that piss off a lot of the community and not listening in regards to said changes. Difference being a lot of bigger devs aren't dependent on their still relatively small community to survive.