Too Much Rng...

[LazyKnight]

Problem with that is that it is starting to become a chore.

 

And when a game becomes a chore something is fundamentally wrong.

 

 

The problem is warframe relies far too heavily on a faction based table and a general table for mod drops. If they copied games like wow or finally fantasy and gave an individual NPC or smaller region as the only source of a drop, say rollers on earth dropping flow mods at 5% chance, it would be far easier to farm stuff.

 

The loot table is bloated still and they should slim it down again by locking certain mod to certain planets. They should also have it CLEARLY stated in game where mods drop, people have played the game 150+ hours without knowing the hell's chamber only has a decent drop off Grineer. People shouldn't have to use data from data miners to have a clue where thing drop or what the chances are.

[Bakercompany86]

Endgame pve in mmorpgs usually involves a lot more than simply getting a group to work together. Endgame pve involves 4-40+ people getting together while each accomplishing the role of tanking, healing, dealing damage, using crowd control, and buffing. Each person needs to do their job correctly by using 5-20+ separate abilities while managing cooldowns and resources in order to be as optimal as possible at their chosen role. Not only that, but each player needs to make sure that they can deal with several different mechanics depending on the boss that they are fighting. Anyone failing to do their job properly while avoiding several mechanics can lead to death by mechanics, or death by the boss enraging because you took too long to kill it. So yes, mmorpg endgame content is definitely a lot more difficult than anything that warframe has to offer.

 

What is important is not that mmorpgs can offer much more difficult content than warframe, but rather that warframe has no real difficulty to offer. In mmorpgs, players progress through content while getting new gear and being exposed to new mechanics, which will later allow them to move on to even more difficult content that will offer new gear and mechanics, and so on.

 

Mmorpg endgame content, as well as the progression towards that endgame content, is something that warframe needs to emulate in order to be successful. And it needs to get away from rewarding players with an rng system that rewards them for endlessly grinding easy content.

 

Unless they want to move to a completely different reward system, which would require a massive overhaul of the game.

 

As it stands we have the RNG loot collection of a dungeon crawlers, with the combat of a 3rd person shooter, and the progression of an MMO.  It's some odd frankengame they've created.

 

It's probably too late for that kind of overhaul.  They've applied an entirely MMO system to a game that isn't an MMO by any means.  It could work in the long run, but it's definitely going to take tweaking or all but the elitists will get bored and quit much quicker than DE wants them to.

[whitejackale]

This is not an MMO....  There is no other way to say it.  Having 4 people in the game at one time is not an MMO.

 

By that logic, Battlefield is an MMO, Call of Duty is an MMO, or any game where lots of people are playing the game at the same time.

 

For your game to be "Massively Multiplayer" people have to exist in the same world, at the same time.  Otherwise it's just "multiplayer"

Vast open areas in which the whole population can interact are over rated. Players in mmos are usually hanging out in main cities in which they have access to trading and other services. That or they are busy trying to complete instanced content. Remove that vast desolate areas, and you have the same exact game, minus the main city hub, which can probably be introduced at a later date.(currently it is the dojo) 

 

In short, warframe has missions in which we can farm in much the same way that people farm in mmos, but it is missing a large city in which our avatars can coexists, trading, endgame content, and vast desolate open world areas that hardly anyone visits.

[Bakercompany86]

Vast open areas in which the whole population can interact are over rated. Players in mmos are usually hanging out in main cities in which they have access to trading and other services. That or they are busy trying to complete instanced content. Remove that vast desolate areas, and you have the same exact game, minus the main city hub, which can probably be introduced at a later date.(currently it is the dojo) 

 

In short, warframe has missions in which we can farm in much the same way that people farm in mmos, but it is missing a large city in which our avatars can coexists, trading, endgame content, and vast desolate open world areas that hardly anyone visits.

 

 

There are similarities, but Warframe is in no way an MMO.  The most you can interact with at once is 3 people.  It is a 3rd person action shooter. 

 

I agree, large cities and hubs are overrated.  Such is a nature of all MMOs.  Although they do bring benefits, such as trading like you mentioned.

[whitejackale]

Unless they want to move to a completely different reward system, which would require a massive overhaul of the game.

 

As it stands we have the RNG loot collection of a dungeon crawlers, with the combat of a 3rd person shooter, and the progression of an MMO.  It's some odd frankengame they've created.

 

It's probably too late for that kind of overhaul.  They've applied an entirely MMO system to a game that isn't an MMO by any means.  It could work in the long run, but it's definitely going to take tweaking or all but the elitists will get bored and quit much quicker than DE wants them to.

You are correct about the rng loot collection of dungeon crawlers and the combat of 3rd person shooters, but so far they have failed to introduce any actual endgame progression besides the collection of new weapons that have higher level requirements.

[whitejackale]

There are similarities, but Warframe is in no way an MMO.  The most you can interact with at once is 3 people.  It is a 3rd person action shooter. 

 

I agree, large cities and hubs are overrated.  Such is a nature of all MMOs.  Although they do bring benefits, such as trading like you mentioned.

Woudn't adding a persistent main hub to warframe make it an mmo? I am not against the idea of having a persistent world on which players can interact, but I feel like the main content of most mmos has always been instanced, and that is the content that we already have available to us in warframe. 

[LazyKnight]

Woudn't adding a persistent main hub to warframe make it an mmo? I am not against the idea of having a persistent world on which players can interact, but I feel like the main content of most mmos has always been instanced, and that is the content that we already have available to us in warframe. 

If they added a hub and did a copy paste of Vindictus for towns/ships/whatever I bet most people would buy the label as MMO or something. The problem is they do not have a server if they got one it wouldn't be that hard to have a persistent world.

[badkarma913]

seriously im sick and @(*()$ tired of having to farm vor 50000000000000000000 times to get i @(*()$ morphics its bullS#&$ and another thing is i dont think i added enugh 0s

also morphics or controll modules which i go through 4-5 a day never ever drop and i have to hit hyena 30 times just to get a few its @(*()$ retarted

[Bakercompany86]

Woudn't adding a persistent main hub to warframe make it an mmo? I am not against the idea of having a persistent world on which players can interact, but I feel like the main content of most mmos has always been instanced, and that is the content that we already have available to us in warframe. 

 

Kinda?  Only some MMOs instance the majority of their content.  The biggest example being WoW obviously.

 

But at any given time you can interact with hundreds of players directly, not just global chat.  Parts of content require dozens of players participating at once. 

 

Basically to be an MMO, you would have a large amount of players interacting simultaneously in a single game world.

 

Warframe is merely matches of 4 players.  Just having a lot of people playing the game doesn't qualify it as an MMO, or else CoD and Battlefield would also be called MMOs.

[VelenoHargreaves]

Nothing is sure about trade.

 

And for all people that are QQ about mod or two, did you ever had 3283289894789 copies of Hellfire mod? If you did, then you started to play this game before U8 ;)

 I loled at this. I'm with man, I'm from Closed Beta just a little after Warframe came out of Alpha. Where Exalibur, Loki and Volt were the kick-&#! starter team with the abillity to solo Pluto and Switch teleport the hell out of the CRYOPOD kkkkkk

 

 

EDIT: The time when leveling up your warframe and weapon meaned something rather than just mastery... I was crushed when they took the level scale 'skill-tree" system and replaced by the current mod system. But I adapted and started to enjoy the game. I do have almost 300 hours of warframe (in game stats 275 hours and 27 minutes), so I can say warframe can adapt the same way as the older players had to...

Edited August 8, 2013 by VelenoHargreaves

[iValianT]

You don't want to grind?
Go play a single player game.

This isn't your 'feedback' or 'criticism' you're just complaining about it whatsoever and yet not giving any suggestion to it if you dislike it that much.

[Misgenesis]

Ive had plenty of those mods, Just play Kappa or Kiste.

[Brimir]

seriously im sick and @(*()$ tired of having to farm vor 50000000000000000000 times to get i @(*()$ morphics its bullS#&$ and another thing is i dont think i added enugh 0s

also morphics or controll modules which i go through 4-5 a day never ever drop and i have to hit hyena 30 times just to get a few its @(*()$ retarted

 

Don't do Vor for Morphics, bro. Do the first lvl 1-3 Extermination mission in Mercury.

 

Fast, easy and like 500-1000 Ferrite in addition to 1-3 Morphics on a good run.

 

 

You don't want to grind?

Go play a single player game.

This isn't your 'feedback' or 'criticism' you're just complaining about it whatsoever and yet not giving any suggestion to it if you dislike it that much.

 

 

Funny thing is that we've pretty much got an official reply that DE agrees with me on this. So yeah... you, and everyone else who says I am "just complaining" without anything to back it up with can go suck a fat one.

 

 

DE is currently aware that the RNG for Mod drops right now is undesirable.

 

 I don't have an ETA to give you on when we'll see the changes but I do know they are on the way.

 

 The RNG will be changed.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Brimir

[EirikAura]

Funny thing is that we've pretty much got an official reply that DE agrees with me on this. So yeah... you, and everyone else who says I am "just complaining" without anything to back it up with can go suck a fat one.

I do agree, but man you gotta stop feeding the trolls! They breed you know...

[Brimir]

But feeding the less fortunate is my community service... if I don't they'll put me in prison!

[Paprika]

Mods are necessary to get past Earth. A level 30 warframe means NOTHING unless you have the right mods. This system was meant to introduce choice, but some mods are obvious requirements. While you're bound to get the right mods eventually, when eventually is is undetermined. You could be stuck doing lower tiered missions before getting the right mods. 

 

The thing is, there really isn't any choice in the types of builds you can do. I tried building a caster frame, but until I get Streamline, I can't. I need Streamline to get to higher waves in Defense. Streamline is only available in higher tiers of Defense. Do you see the problem here? 

 

As for a solution, I'll be putting together one shortly. It mostly involves two separate pages. One for a passive skill tree and the other for mods. The problem with the old skill tree was that mod slot paths were no brainers as the mods gave better boosts than the nodes. There was no real choice in the matter. So if they were separated, it'd mean that the passive skill tree would still have meaning. I also want to see mods become less stat-based and more behavioral and more utility-based.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Paprika

[Bakercompany86]

Mods are necessary to get past Earth. A level 30 warframe means NOTHING unless you have the right mods. This system was meant to introduce choice, but some mods are obvious requirements. While you're bound to get the right mods eventually, when eventually is is undetermined. You could be stuck doing lower tiered missions before getting the right mods. 

 

The thing is, there really isn't any choice in the types of builds you can do. I tried building a caster frame, but until I get Streamline, I can't. I need Streamline to get to higher waves in Defense. Streamline is only available in higher tiers of Defense. Do you see the problem here? 

 

As for a solution, I'll be putting together one shortly. It mostly involves two separate pages. One for a passive skill tree and the other for mods. The problem with the old skill tree was that mod slot paths were no brainers as the mods gave better boosts than the nodes. There was no real choice in the matter. So if they were separated, it'd mean that the passive skill tree would still have meaning. I also want to see mods become less stat-based and more behavioral and more utility-based.

 

 

Well said.  I'm shocked by the amount of people who wouldn't want mods changed to something that adds more utility and less just bland stat increases, simply because of the time (beta time) they've put into leveling the mod.

 

Where this change could alter the game and make it a lot more fun.

 

 

I look forward to your solution.

[stacey69]

Especially when it comes to mods. There needs to be a more guaranteed way to hunt down induvidual mods.

I have not played a game with as bad a loot system as Warframe before. I can only imagine they did not want to copy other games and put specific mods on certain bosses etc. People say some mods drop more from certain factions but in all my time i have never found this. It always seemed completely random to me.

 

It would make more sense that if multishot is the best mod in game then you put it on the hardest boss on the highest level planet but remember how warframe players freaked out over the Glaive and many other things. I think they are just too scared to change anything now incase they upset their player base.

 

Who knows? but everyone who plays this i know always has the same complaints and stops playing it. This looting system is one of the complaints they always mention. I think we just want to much too soon from a game that is barely even a youngster. Most games of this quality are 5 years in the making from huge studios. This is like 18 months old or so and not even in full release.

 

We can only hope that by November they sort a lot of this stuff out. GL! DE it will be fun seeing how you progress.

[Bakercompany86]

I have not played a game with as bad a loot system as Warframe before. I can only imagine they did not want to copy other games and put specific mods on certain bosses etc. People say some mods drop more from certain factions but in all my time i have never found this. It always seemed completely random to me.

 

It would make more sense that if multishot is the best mod in game then you put it on the hardest boss on the highest level planet but remember how warframe players freaked out over the Glaive and many other things. I think they are just too scared to change anything now incase they upset their player base.

 

Who knows? but everyone who plays this i know always has the same complaints and stops playing it. This looting system is one of the complaints they always mention. I think we just want to much too soon from a game that is barely even a youngster. Most games of this quality are 5 years in the making from huge studios. This is like 18 months old or so and not even in full release.

 

We can only hope that by November they sort a lot of this stuff out. GL! DE it will be fun seeing how you progress.

 

 

I wouldn't mind some sort of mod exchange.  Like say, a bar that fills up similar to how you power up mods.  Except instead of powering up a mod, you're dumping these mods into a pool to unlock a mod you've been after.  

 

Kind of a way to guarantee that even after countless runs you'll still get what you were after one way or another.