We Need Endgame And A Challenge - What Do We Expect For Warframe's Future?

[Paprika]

Doesn't take away so much as it adds to tacitcal side of the game.

When I think of how things can be balanced, I ask myself whether or not the new addition can be countered without using a gun. I'm sure what's best for the game is a system where the powers support Melee and Gunplay, but I can't help wishing for a system where both are optional and where powers can actually become the focus (I'm not talking about powers like Molecular Prime). *Sigh*. Yes, a bit narrow-minded of me.

 

Resistance units won't be common.

 

Frames like Nova are OP because the game modes of Defense and Survival facilitate Ulti-spam.

 

Limit number of waves in Defense.

 

Limit time in Survival.

 

This will lead to less farming of these game modes.

Ok, the Lotus can actually become useful. If she warned us of threats such as Resistance troops, she might not be so useless.

 

Defense, as a game mode, is bland and tasteless. Survaival is more of the same. If they remove unlimited waves, there'll be no reason to play these modes. Or, atleast, that's how I feel about them. I never liked them to begin with. I might just be the one guy in a million that feels this way, but I can't imagine these modes being fun. The difficulty in these modes is based on "power creep", bigger mobs and better stats. While that can be said for other game modes as well, in Defense and Survival, it really just boils down to what your gear is as opposed to how well you use your gear. In other modes, one can argue that there are soem tactics involved. In Defense, there are very few (if any) tactics that can be employed. 

Edited September 8, 2013 by Paprika

[arch111]

Capture the flag, defend base modes, could they work?

I mean of course adopted to fit wf mission structure.

My thinking is like defence, but each round is an equivalent to flag,

like reactor cores etc. The team, with the most wins.

This would mean a cell vs ai in a team structure.

If the ai wins, the reward would be smaller to none.

Defend would mean unlike now, there would be loss conditions that would give cons and pros.

Not failure due to pod death like now.

A third mode is like last man standing.

It mean no revives and limited rescources. Possibly an Arena where fighters battle for glory.

Thoughts?

[r3dzer0]

-snip-

i'm assuming this is a pvp idea? or is it co-op vs ai? somewhat vague in the description of it all.  i think before we add more game modes we need a rehash of the current ones. they are working on non-linear tiles so thats a start.

 

@paprika currently the only reason to do defense missions and survival is the high mob spam to be able to farm resources/mods and to have a higher chance at void keys.  For the more part limiting them falls more in line with a lore point of view.  secondly it reduces the amount to farm, while still providing somewhat of a "challenge." rewards for doing defense would have to be reworked to make them worthwile still to offset the resource cut. as for powercreep challenge, just have them scale quicker, though that is being reworked as well(powercreep i mean) 

 

as for focusing more on powerplay vs gun or having them equal i dont really see that happening as unfortunate as it may be.  there are caster frames that need buffs to their base skills like ember fireball but thats a different discussion

[Eisvogel]

-snip-

 

 Yeah i totally agree with you.... defense and survival are a sad sad trick to try and mask something as a temporary end game.... where it's just power creep and as boring as possible. What's worse, since defense have the key drops and the best outcome as far as rewards/mods/xp.... the game encourages an even poorer experience from what it already is, by kinda making it the only best choice to keep doing defense missions over and over... and survival is the same disgusting thing, all over again with a new name and a slightly noticeable difference.

 

And there are hardly any tactics to them... Infested? Ogris team + trinity + vauban vortex....... else? Frost + those two.... and do the same over and over and over.... nothing to it, and if you enjoying boring yourself ad infinitum, you can reach as high waves as you want doing exactly that.

 

I really hope u10 addresses something and comes out as not just another disappointment

[Eisvogel]

-snip-

 

From what i understand, you mean team vs team game?

 

I think it would be way way off from what the game is and intends to be, i don't know if it would work.

The main problem probably is the composition... first, if you mean 4vs4 players.... the way networking in the game works makes it simply not feasible (and the host will always have the advantage..... well, if we ignore that fact that his pc will vomit blood that is...)

If it's 4 player vs AI..... i doubt they will be able to adapt the AI so much for that to work properly and to make use of the mechanics available for players. Plus the current AI already needs tons of work on it.... so i'd rather everything is focused on that point for the time being

[r3dzer0]

for arch1111

 

Desteve: Is there PvP in Warframe?(When will there be PVP?  Your game is dead without PVP! I have an idea for PvP mode!

There is no PVP mode in Warframe yet. Face-palm? Sure, but when we started building this game a year ago, we saw plenty of PvP and less PvE.  Right now we want to focus and do one thing well: PvE.

 

 

and for the rest of us sad bunch:  "That being said, we are investing in better leaderboards, clan goals, and more other 'meta' forms of competition right now." ( boldness added for emphasis)

 

So what does this mean?  In a way it could mean that all this postulating we're going after could be for naught and that the game will remain an arcading platform.  What that entails is that there will be your score for how well you did in  a level and then there will be how well your friends did as well as the community leaders if you wish to see. In my opinion this does very little other than make it a non co-op game, and further divides the game from tactics and stratagems that could otherwise be employed to increase efficiency. 

 

Clan goals are not very clear other than it is a place to "hang out" if you will, and to research equipment.  One could wonder if instead of our current starmap, that it could also be the jumping point for each mission.  What I mean by that is maybe upon log-in we could start in our dojo.  If one does not have a clan or dojo to which he belongs, he simply spawns aboard a tenno ship, see https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/92326-we-need-endgame-and-a-challenge-what-do-we-expect-for-warframes-future/page-10 by raiz0 at the bottom of his post.

 

I think in the long run, unless the vision for the game detracts from competition, and moves toward being the best you can be with what you like, and not being boxed into a certain playstyle to excel, the game will ultimately burn people out.

 

balancing around the wrong things will do just that.  I guess we will have to wait till update 10 to actually see if they're going to take lore and pve to the place that it should go, where there will be no burnout and millions of referrals to play their game, or if they will continue down the Player vs PVE type game style that will ultimately burn you out when you realize that no matter how hard you try, you'll never be able to beat people who have 7 hours to burn to play one round of survival.

 

[Eisvogel]

You had me at Cryogenic Dreamland. This would be such an interesting way to get more immersion into the game. And the possibilities and potential, temporary but sudden, defense aspect to the game. Where a GOOD team would have to stop and cover their ally for a short bit.

Awesome!

 

Thanks for your time Aramahn, glad you liked it :3

Edited September 9, 2013 by Eisvogel

[Eisvogel]

I really like the random events thing. I feel like with a lot of brainstorming, DE can make them work wonderfully.

But something that I thought of, is that why are they (mostly) negative.

The Assassin squad is there to kill you.

The Cryogenic Dreamland seems like a hostile place. And not the best thing when your allies get caught up trying to defend you.

Faction favours are a bit neutral, I will admit.

But why not create random events to help you?

I had this idea just pop up in my head.

If you get, let's say for the sake of example, 50 Silent (not necessarily kills with that special animation, because that would be unfair to people with weaker melee weapons, such as the Dual Zoren. Kills with the Paris work as well, as long as no one notices) kills in one mission, there is a 20% chance for a friendly-stealth squad to appear and help you finish the mission stealthily. And they have a 5% chance to mess up. So even though it is hard to acquire, it is still not the best thing ever as you aren't guaranteed a win with them and it doesn't exactly promote stealth as the best way to play.

 

Also, the numbers I chose seem a bit tough. 50 -> 35, 20 -> 25?

 

True, i just wrote the first things i could think of and that made some sense being in the game and in accordance to the little lore there is.

 

Everyone is welcomed to make as many suggestions as they want, the more the merrier :D, and i'll link them as with other suggestions in OP

[RazorTip]

I think the Derf Anyo suggestion is a good one, have you checked it yet, Eisvogel? It may not be end content, but it's still a neat addition too. A little comic relief never hurt anyone, specially in this serious game. I also made a (albeit small) contribution to that idea, too.

[Paprika]

"Cryogenic dreamland" sparked an idea.

 

DE has stated that they'd like to change spy so that you'd actually go into the system and fight a boss (I hope it's not the same boss over and over, as that will get repetitive), so I figured, if the enemy has been alerted, waves start to spawn, and one to three members have to defend the player doing the "hacking". The waves end when the player has killed the boss. Up to three players can enter "cyberspace", but that leaves fewer people left to guard them. Just a thought.

[Eisvogel]

I think the Derf Anyo suggestion is a good one, have you checked it yet, Eisvogel? It may not be end content, but it's still a neat addition too. A little comic relief never hurt anyone, specially in this serious game. I also made a (albeit small) contribution to that idea, too.

 

Don't recall seeing something with that name here in gameplay feedback, is it here?

I'll see if the search bar gives me a result in the global forum and check it out :3

[Eisvogel]

"Cryogenic dreamland" sparked an idea.

 

DE has stated that they'd like to change spy so that you'd actually go into the system and fight a boss (I hope it's not the same boss over and over, as that will get repetitive), so I figured, if the enemy has been alerted, waves start to spawn, and one to three members have to defend the player doing the "hacking". The waves end when the player has killed the boss. Up to three players can enter "cyberspace", but that leaves fewer people left to guard them. Just a thought.

 

That would work. One thought though.... what happens if player is solo? There's no one to defend him. And probably the other problem could be how to choose the players that go in..... as in everything else, probably one of the two options (either staying out or going inside the cyberspace) will be the most desired by players, and staying out defending sounds like they are missing out the fun.

 

Maybe all of them could go in instead (also solving the solo player conflict) and before going in, the Tenno squad deploys a shield to cover them (thus, making some actual sense and logic that appeals to a reasonable plot) which will obviously be taken down in time..... hence, the task inside cyberspace will have to be completed before a timer runs out or everyone perishes and mission fails. What do you think?

[RazorTip]

Don't recall seeing something with that name here in gameplay feedback, is it here?

I'll see if the search bar gives me a result in the global forum and check it out :3

D'oh. Forgot to mention that it was posted on the 'General Discussion' subforum. Here you go:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39073-mini-boss-idea-derf-anyo-son-of-nef/

[r3dzer0]

read that thread and was funny haha, kinda like a tenno fanboy xD

 

Eis and Paprika, what if your cryogenic dream land was the mastery test.  that would make it better than the current system and could have lore tied into it. 

 

as for the cybernetic stomp fest, That reminds me of this mechanic i encountered while facing the Lich King ( wow). at roughly 40% hp he would suck a person into frostmourne(his sword) and that person would be able to be in a separate part of the raid.  I won't bore you with the details, but what if two people were chosen at random to go into cyberspace and the rest had to stay out on the look out?  As in don't leave it to the team to choose so there's no arguing, and if there is a decided tactic just have a zone that it procs in, lets say 5 meters, around the console.  if you aren't in that range you aren't considered for entering.  just my 2 cents

[RazorTip]

read that thread and was funny haha, kinda like a tenno fanboy xD

 

Eis and Paprika, what if your cryogenic dream land was the mastery test.  that would make it better than the current system and could have lore tied into it. 

 

as for the cybernetic stomp fest, That reminds me of this mechanic i encountered while facing the Lich King ( wow). at roughly 40% hp he would suck a person into frostmourne(his sword) and that person would be able to be in a separate part of the raid.  I won't bore you with the details, but what if two people were chosen at random to go into cyberspace and the rest had to stay out on the look out?  As in don't leave it to the team to choose so there's no arguing, and if there is a decided tactic just have a zone that it procs in, lets say 5 meters, around the console.  if you aren't in that range you aren't considered for entering.  just my 2 cents

Damn Lich King, I remember that raid. Tried to do with with 4 people (we were level 90 already) and he still managed to wipe the floor with us. We forgot about the boss phases and mechanics in that fight. Still pretty darn fun.

[Paprika]

- Game randomly picks who goes in cyberspace -

I like it. Interesting. Something I'd also like to see is Mods only requiring one player to pick it up. If one player picks it up, it's a reward for everybody at the end of the match in the same way credits only require one player to pick up. It may lead to AFK players, but I think it'd be a bit more convenient.

[NIL0S]

I expect more variety. That is all :)

[Paprika]

Anyone else see this?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96793-missions-have-no-depth-heres-how-to-fix-it/

[Eisvogel]

Anyone else see this?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96793-missions-have-no-depth-heres-how-to-fix-it/

 

yeah, it was posted here some pages ago... and it has been linked in the suggestion threads list in OP ever since :D

[r3dzer0]

Now that i think of it.  maybe we can have a dual progression of the level?  Obviously you'd have your cyberspace experience, but as you progress eventually you would pop out of the system in a different location?  Or perhaps your allies must transport you to another console because the one you're linked to would close up after it starts? granted that would make some people pissed >.> and rushers would probably be at the top of the list.

I'm for either set though i'd prefer that the whole frame is transferred into the system and the other 2 players have to reach another console to pop you out, thus keeping action and level progression intact for both teams rather than one defend and the other explore.

 

in the end its an idea

[Boatsniper]

Anyone else see this?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96793-missions-have-no-depth-heres-how-to-fix-it/

ehehehehehehe...

[Eisvogel]

Eis and Paprika, what if your cryogenic dream land was the mastery test.  that would make it better than the current system and could have lore tied into it.

 

:o

That could actually work and give it a nice touch, the only thing that it would make a bit tad sad.... is that 1) we would lose the option of making it a refreshing random event to mix up the game pace a bit..... and 2) we'd only be able to perform it so many times (ranks get progressively slower to attain and more time consuming, and also limited by items available)

 

Maybe we could do both? And make the test a very special case of this, much more detailed and refined. And i definitely love your idea of making that with the test be the part tied to unlocking lore.

 

 

as for the cybernetic stomp fest, That reminds me of this mechanic i encountered while facing the Lich King ( wow). at roughly 40% hp he would suck a person into frostmourne(his sword) and that person would be able to be in a separate part of the raid.  I won't bore you with the details, but what if two people were chosen at random to go into cyberspace and the rest had to stay out on the look out?  As in don't leave it to the team to choose so there's no arguing, and if there is a decided tactic just have a zone that it procs in, lets say 5 meters, around the console.  if you aren't in that range you aren't considered for entering.  just my 2 cents

 

Well, they definitely love RNG... so why not leave that to chance as well? =P.... the only thing would be for solo players since they wouldn't have a partner.... probably the most logical would be to "upload a virus" that will do the work while the player transports it..... but i wouldn't mind either way, it's not like being realistic matters at this point.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Eisvogel

[r3dzer0]

well that's just it, it could be one of two ways.  One is the player's frame enters the system like how we capture targets and is able to navigate, destroy and exit at a different location.  if this is what happens then the other players have to progress through the outside world to reach the same goal and possibly eject the other participants from the system.  Or we can go with the original idea that they sit under a shield and have x time.  I suppose we could upload a virus as solo, but I think lotus does enough for us as it is >.>

Me personally i'd like to enter with the frame and take it through cyberspace and pop out the other end. but that's just me.

 

 

realism is only what you accept as being real.  Considering we're space ninjas/wizards that can suck people into our hands and kill hundreds in single blows i think we're okay to enter cyberspace :P.

 

While I'm on, i'm actually thinking of starting a very long discourse of each of the things we've mentioned and consolidate it down into one google doc to make it a little cleaner.  Things slated for write up are enemies both type and actions, mission types and their depth, and maybe some other stuff i've seen around the forum, link to google doc will ensue :D

[Volume]

So many good ideas in this thread. Very hard to go through all of them but so many are so fantasic!

[Eisvogel]

-snip-

 

Thanks for the input and positive enthusiasm :D