jpvi1207 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Stop arguing you two, you are wasting your time. Also more than 4 players in one game is now impossible unless you have your own server which can handle that. And 30 players vs mobile fortress can be cool and also incredibly stupid, it depends how well you design it. and thats what i was saying, servers made specifically for these missions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dzer0 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Raizo i do think that it would be awesome if your little ship that you sneak on board did get captured, but i think it would have to be comparible to a dungeon/instance. there would have to be story etc, culminating in the discovery of very important data, or freeing a tenno, or maybe defeating a sector boss. I like that idea and support that. As for pvp, i know alot of people are clammoring for it, but as warframes are in their current state it is not likely. Example: Me and my brothers originally built our dojo for the sole purpose to duel. Well we got 'round to it and rhino apparently is the winner atm( well rhino with a gram xD) tho i haven't tried using my ash against them, its just rather pointless when within 2-3 hits or skills you've toasted them. Once again i can't remember who said it, but having 3 dedicated frames to pvp light medium and heavy, with set skills and mods and maybe even weapons would probably be the best way to balance/introduce pvp. Alas that isn't what we need right now. What we need is content that keeps us engaged. warframe with friends will keep your attention i believe, but when you end up soloing or pugging that's where it becomes rather lackluster. levels and enemies seem to blend together. content is being burnt through by rushing/farming. i think that if we're going to see a real change in warframe from farm to war, we need tougher bosses and less rng with their drops, increasing the risk/reward factor. I have high hopes for this new update with the 3headed golem and its 2 phase fight, but hopefully it won't suffer from being overfarmed for the new warframe. maybe if bosses become locked for a period? or if there are conditions to unlock them so that there won't be overkill on them. granted that would create a lot of friction between de and the community. I guess there's a plentiful amount of ways that we could tackle the issues, but i think endgame being defined as what you do when you have the weapons mods and frames that you want is probably what will keep us engaged until those issues are fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisvogel Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Arguing? I thought we were having a healthy, albeit heated, discussion. Come on guys, let's keep the level of civility that we had so far. This ain't General Discussions, we are here trying to put out suggestions and constructive feedback to improve the game. We don't need the GD drama here. @jpvi1207: You started being rude and calling out, even though you were mistaken (that's why i had told you about p2p hosting and to base what you were saying on facts, since i work as a developer). While RazorTip could have been more polite with his words, you started it and he was pointing that out. Probably most of us would like a missions with 16 or 32 players cooperating to achieve a goal, but that's impossible with this system and i don't see DE with any intentions of putting dedicated servers in the near future (maybe budget, or other complications... but it doesn't really matter). I doubt even the best gaming pc will be able to deal with all the physics and data distribution of hosting 8 players, let alone more..... Let's keep the civil and respectful exchange of opinions guys, we are all on the same side trying to put out our best ideas to make the game we love a better place for everyone and to keep players from burning out so fast. Edited August 18, 2013 by Eisvogel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmaMalum Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I'm personally more of a "work with what you got" guy. Love the ideas posted by OP and want to throw the ideas I've already posted out. Both use the current nightmare mode to at least provide a bit more challenge. Orikin Void Nightmare https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/92118-suggestion-void-nightmare-mode/#entry1027821 More Nightmare modifiers, brainstorm thread. Would love more ideas! https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/92140-brainstorm-new-nightmare-challenges/#entry1028075 As far as the main point goes (end-game), DE is definetly getting there with the new J-3 Golem incoming (check out latest Livestream). What I think is the main problem with the repetitive nature of Warframe as OP mentioned is the lack of something to work to, you need an objective to look forward to that involves either challenge or accomplishment. Grinding for mats to get ridiculous clan weapons is a way to do that, but I think we can all agree if Warframe doesn't lack anything it's farming. So taking inspiration from other MMO's we could have a changing epic arch-villain (WoW), a way to compete with other players (LoL, TF2, etc.) not direct PvP but a way to have competition with the other overpowered supersoldiers of this world, or even something more rudimentary like a set of collectibles. Just throwing out ideas here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvi1207 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 more feedback https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96835-void-boss-idea-would-need-help-with-concept-art/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dzer0 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 this is a good idea for revamp on missions, would add some depth Op is boatsniper https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96793-missions-have-no-depth-heres-how-to-fix-it/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisvogel Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) -snip- Nice ideas to add for the nightmare mode, thanks for the feedback and suggestions. Though, I'd rather focus on a more challenging aspect now and try to think of how to rework the current mechanics and gameplay to take the dullness away, for me it takes priority before the add on features.... and also because they are kinda cheating the player, not really challenging.... it's just more stat-like moves instead of providing an actual challenge without punishing/cheapin the player. Btw, you might wanna edit some of that... since the minimap thing is no longer active, they took it out because it made some missions extra punishing and people were raging a lot. Edited August 18, 2013 by Eisvogel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWGUNITALPHA Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I basically stopped reading at the environmental hazard section because it was pretty bad. They halt and slow the flow of gameplay, it's why most people hate laser doors and hacking. If it's indicative of the rest of your ideas then I'm not impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaiZ0 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Problem is not on missions itself. Missions works good. Map generator doesnt works good. Everything feel same. Sometimes it is not. ( different lights and enviromental hazard ) Maps are generated in same way. Look to games like Doom 1,2 , Duke Nukem 3D. Every map wasnt just coridor from A to B. You have secret rooms ( could be done be hacking terminal ), you go to area to get Blue key, open Blue door to find Red key. Go back , open red doors - switch the button to open doors to exit. Even if DE could make single mission more complex, more unique, it still doesnt solve problem of endgame. Problem is in way how missions are given to players. You meditate and looks to all planets. Then you go to anyplace ( same place like before with diferent level and drops ). This is not career. It is multiplayer game lobby. That is problem. More Void like keys missions. And absolutly different way of distribute missions. I like to see something more like real map. Not just dots. There is not fun of journey if you just teleport to place you want to be. It is easier and faster. But not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTip Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Here's my contribution to the thread, recycled missions which are akin to Void missions, with different tiers for the normal ones. Currently you have the linear progression of unlocking new missions with every single one you've completed, however, most of the current players (and veterans) have already unlocked all of those, including, I'm most certain, the new Phobos tileset. What I'm aiming at is to provide a new difficulty to those levels, like for example: Mercury ranges from 1-7, and that would be Tier 1. Tier 2 would be higher than that(for example, 21-43*), and Tier 3 even higher (50-7*). The enemies would scale according to those levels, and there would be changes to the tilesets, like for example, Caloris, which is an Exterminate mission, would become both an Exterminate mission coupled with Defense. Or it would simply change into another mission type (as long as it's not Assassination, of course) like in the alerts. (*)this is not the accurate rating for those levels, I imagine it would be for DE to decide, it's just so I can get my idea accross for people. In essence, the missions past T1 become unpredictable, with scenarios where Lotus finds herself unable to provide you accurate data and/or is unable to contact you (for all those who simply wish for more 'Lotus silence'). Or scenarios that, if you're playing with a team, split you apart, and you must regroup first before continuing onward (which would, in part, reduce the chances of rushing by forcing you to meet up at certain 'Rendezvous points'). If I could squeeze some lore onto these 'Tiers', it would be by re-introducing the bosses you've faced before, except, they'd be stronger and look a tad different, like, with more weapons/gear/implants or, in case of the Infested, more tentacle-like protrusions. Kinda like what DE is doing to the J-3 Golem, by making it bigger, meaner, uglier, and well, with more different phases to it. Vor, for instance, gets bisected horizontally at the waist, but instead of fading away in a puff of smoke, which is what he currently does, like most enemies do, he reanimates like in the PS4 Warframe trailer, and vanishes in a flash of light, to give us the feeling that the Orokin tech he has is teleporting him to safety, where he gets rebuilt and more powerful, in preparation to the next Tier missions. Also, let's not forget the Stalker, he'd get a few more connections or more allies. Hell, an Orokin Tower that belongs to a rogue Clan whose members are the likes of our psychotic and deranged Tenno-like enemy is a nice idea, I think. That'd be an interesting mission, 'Clan Fight', where several 4-man squads, all hailing from the same Clan, infiltrate different points of this 'Stalker Tower', each with different objectives which would be decided in a special lobby with chat(one team would rescue hostages, another would wipe out resistance for a sector and retrieve data***) and, of course, due to the Peer to Peer connectivity issues, this mission would require a specific server to be able to house all the players in it, yet it would not allow them to interact with each other, remember, 4-man squads, at least not directly. Think of this, a squad is pinned down and surviving an onslaught of enemies, like in Mobile Defense, while another squad is busy helping and protecting Lotus while she hack terminals. Those terminals, once broken, would allow the pinned squad to evacuate to move on. (***) if you've ever played Mass Effect 2, think of the final mission, where you pick the teammates that will accompany you and those who will go to different areas with different objectives. Let's not forget, these tiers would reward players with new Weapon/Warframe Bps, for example, with more materials/mods, though not so much in credits, because, let's be honest, we got plenty of those (I myself am sitting on +300k credits with nothing to spend it on**). (**)while I do spend some credits with mod fusing and recipe buying and crafting, at the end of it all, I've got nothing left to buy except, well, consumables which, to be honest, I rarely buy. This is why I'm taking the liberty to add yet another feature that DE can add, the option to buy materials, or slots, basically, to give us the option to buy stuff in the market with credits, and, of course, make them really, I mean really expensive to buy. At least that way we have a decent credit sink. I am aware of the implications of this suggestion, as it would require not only more hands on deck, but also more models, animations, sound files, etc... all for a single boss! It's crazy, yeah, but DE proved to me, with the j-3 Golem, that they can pull this off, provided they have the means, and time, to do it. We just have to be patient with them. Tl; dr - I...you know what, screw it,read the damn wall of text to understand this suggestion, I'm not bothering with some of you lazybums, and it's not that hard to read. I'm not sure if I'm getting my point accross, not because of my level of English, but rather, sometimes, ideas are much easier to understand when spoken, not written. At least for me. Edited August 18, 2013 by RazorTip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaveli61 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Im dont think so! We need not engame. more Farming more challanges and more mission types xD. i´m want it yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTip Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Im dont think so! We need not engame. more Farming more challanges and more mission types xD. i´m want it yes. 'Dat broken english... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaveli61 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 'Dat broken english... Yeah! and you know what im talking about! thats make me Proud xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dzer0 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Im dont think so! We need not engame. more Farming more challanges and more mission types xD. i´m want it yes. i'm not sure if this is laced with sarcasm or not, but i'm fairly sure 11 pages of posts weren't read. Endgame sir does not entail the end of the game, but rather what you can do when you have farmed all the mods you want as well as weapons and frames. @razor very nice suggestion. it definitely would allow us to reuse current enemies. though id prefer to have it laced into very story driven fights. for example in t3 of vor its his last chance to prove to the sisters that he can take you down. so on this level its very heavily patrolled, since you are basically invading vor's territory and it culminates in a multi phase battle with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvadin Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I really wish they would flesh out some of the different types of enemies, especially for the infested. Some ideas: Grineer - A bulky tank that slowly walks towards you. Insane armor and health. When close enough he charges you and knocks you down, then proceeds with pummling you on the ground. Corpus - A few new types of small walkers that ain't a re-colored version of a moa with extra bits attached to it. Perhaps something like a robotic guard dog that chases you and tries to pin you on the ground. - Corpus Engineer's (next version up from the tech) Infested - Some sort of acid spitter would be a nice break from the melee mob that rushes you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisvogel Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 I'm not impressed. This thread wasn't made to impress you. It's about trying to put out there ideas that could help fix the lack of challenge and easy burnout most people experience in the game, it's about trying to reach a point where Mercury is different from Pluto in something more than just the names of the missions and the stat scaling. Also, hacking terminals and laser doors force you to halt the gameplay, most of the ideas in that section could easily be implemented in similar fashion to laser plates in void missions, adding to the tiles dynamics and the gameplay, without the need of forcing you to halt it. Also, just rushing through the mission isn't the only way to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisvogel Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 -snip- Nice suggestions and thanks for taking the time to write them, i am adding your entry to the OP. By the way, if you haven't yet, you might find the link in OP interesting (the one about Cells) since you'll probably find interesting suggestions for something like what you are describing... maybe you like it or it inspires even some more ideas for you. About the multiple 4 squad teams mission you mentioned... i doubt we'll see dedicated servers any time soon...... BUT, the way you put it.... it could be avoided with some workarounds perhaps.... For instance, instead of hosting all the teams together (thus requiring a dedicated server), each team could host it's own instance and the objectives would be check-pointed in the UI (since you already stated there wouldn't be interaction between the teams, this workaround could fit and remove the need of dedicated servers) and branching itself with the teams progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 First off, all rooms have a way to parkour through them. There was one room that required a wallrun to get through. There were way to many people complaining about it so the devs changed it. Also for endgame, the lore and storyline has just started! how can you ask for an end game if the game isn't complete? Also most of the bosses are getting a rework, just check the livestreams for info. you Sir thx good some people are getting threw to them ,dunno why they want End game at this point in time when warframe still has a easy 3 years left or so depending on how great it will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisvogel Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 you Sir thx good some people are getting threw to them ,dunno why they want End game at this point in time when warframe still has a easy 3 years left or so depending on how great it will be Maybe you are oblivious to how game works and how their approach affects the playerbase direly (might i add, the active playerbase, not just random mails registered there). Perhaps you also ignore the fact that the game is soft-released, that it's in Open Beta....... that's why bugs are understandable, why things will need polishing...... But a total lack of endgame? No way to provide challenge whatsoever to the players other than cheap stat scaling (i lol at nigthmare mode.... next "challenge" might as well be nailing your Tenno to the ground and waiting to get killed.... real nice "challenge").... That sounds like Alpha. This is also why a lot of people experience burnout and why players know everything they can expect from the game in 10 to 30 hours of gameplay. Some of us try to suggest and think of ideas on how to prevent that people from leaving the game so soon, as well as giving more things to do to endgame players totally burned out on grinding for the sake of grinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTip Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Nice suggestions and thanks for taking the time to write them, i am adding your entry to the OP. By the way, if you haven't yet, you might find the link in OP interesting (the one about Cells) since you'll probably find interesting suggestions for something like what you are describing... maybe you like it or it inspires even some more ideas for you. About the multiple 4 squad teams mission you mentioned... i doubt we'll see dedicated servers any time soon...... BUT, the way you put it.... it could be avoided with some workarounds perhaps.... For instance, instead of hosting all the teams together (thus requiring a dedicated server), each team could host it's own instance and the objectives would be check-pointed in the UI (since you already stated there wouldn't be interaction between the teams, this workaround could fit and remove the need of dedicated servers) and branching itself with the teams progress. Hmm, yes, I too am doubtful that Warframe will get dedicated servers anytime soon, but I'm also positive that the current system, P2P, is just a placeholder. After all, correct me if I'm wrong, but this game has already garnered the attention of 2 million players, and it's still fairly new. Who knows, dedicated servers might just be in the next few big updates. I'm also familiar with those entries you've mentioned, though I refrained from posting on them. And thanks for adding my entry, if DE takes a look at the ideas here, then perhaps my own ideas will have a shot at analysis, we are after all a part of this games' development and I too want to know what can be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatsniper Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 this is a good idea for revamp on missions, would add some depth Op is boatsniper https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96793-missions-have-no-depth-heres-how-to-fix-it/ Thanks for linking me. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dzer0 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 you Sir thx good some people are getting threw to them ,dunno why they want End game at this point in time when warframe still has a easy 3 years left or so depending on how great it will be Once again, End game does not mean the end of the game, but end of game progression. It means what you can do when you can blast 100 lvl 100000 mobs into the netherreaches of space. World of Warcraft has many levels of endgame. Raids are effectively what endgame can be considered in WoW. and there's not just one. Vanilla had its own, then they expanded and recreated 2-3 endgames, expanded and had if i remember 4 different raids that were varying in challenge. That is what we're asking for. Something to do to make use of our power, not just to put the game down, but rather keep us interested. Have a goal. I want to freakin kick the sisters &#! for ruining earth, and trying to kill us. that can be efffectively endgame. revamping the current bosses to be a challenge that is not just a magnet for your bullets can be endgame. Just one more time, ENDGAME is not the END of the GAME. Thank you for your time and consideration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorTip Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Just one more time, ENDGAME is not the END of the GAME. Thank you for your time and consideration Couldn't agree more. That reminds me, me and me WoW buddies have yet to beat Deathwing....I like bosses with phases, but damn was he hard...against 4 players. ._. I remember the first time we went against him, five seconds after landing on his back, he does a barrel roll, and we're all dead, with an achievement, no less. Edited August 18, 2013 by RazorTip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r3dzer0 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I never got into cata, stopped with Wotlk right when my guild beat him >.> that was before he became a pushover. Phased fights keep it interesting. fire on the ground, dodging, don't get hit by the tail all made you alert even tho you were wreaking the baddie. i still think that our bosses can have multiple stages, like they are planning on implementing on the new j3, i don't know if it will be more than a glorified bullet sponge tho >.> Thanks for linking me. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. You are more than welcome mr. sniper. I thoroughly enjoyed the read :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock-Work Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Well, they've done something with the ai. I expect good things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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