And another Kuva survival feedback,my oh my.

[UnknownCoffeeRebel]

Salutations,T here

Overall,it's nice to see that kuva's actually in the fortress (finally).It does open up rather intriguing questions regarding lore,considering lotus says that the siphons use "Our warframe powers to...Tenno,this is bad." ...which I'll assume is "power" but now,Lotus introduces us with the message that grineer are harvesting it nearby...does it just require a large power source?Annnnywayss....I got off topic,a lot.That's what two days unable to enter the forums does to ya'...

 Back on track,Scaling.
Yes,it does need to scale...Wait,no,not necessarily the rewards,I mean the health...I do understand life pods were never meant to take hits but after,say,25-ish minutes the grineer will be able to take the modified collectors so fast it's almost unreal...As for rewards,which indeed is a hot topic,I'd agree that after,say,the second "Kuva collector" done,or perhaps after certain time,like after the 5th minute,the reward needs to increase a bit,perhaps with 25-50 kuva every following siphon,minute etc...add that,plus booster and a kavat for luck,bang,you have actual reason to stay. 
 Pod health needs to scale,Rewards could scale but that doesn't mean they should.

 The good.
I like this new take on kuva gathering for few simple reasons:It's challenging,it gives me excuse to visit the nazi ca~kuva fortress and overall,it gives me certain joy of "It's not about the destination,it's about the journey" feel.What I would enjoy,which could perhaps also help with the reward scaling is something like a chance for "mega catalyst" drop,perhaps like 10% or something like that,which instead 200,could reward more kuva for 2 mins of defense,instead of 1:30.perhaps double or something crazy like 1000,or something,I dunno...(And nekros' desecrate should be considered,so maybe double would be for the better).However,that's just a suggestion,just throwing ideas in the void.For a lad that hates excavation and the grind with them and cryotic,I'm in love with this,and yes,I'm one hell of a hypocrite.
 It's nice to have a reason to visit the kuva fortress,the gamemode is enjoyable,for me at least.

 The bad.
While all that "reward talk" is another topic on its own,I feel like there were few issues here,aside the not scaling reward (or more importantly,health).Sometimes,the catalyst carriers seem to spawn in walls,I experienced that like 5 times so far for the last 2 days I've played.Aside that,as many would point out,there isn't really much of a reason to remain after time-mark 20` since by then,the pod is really vulnerable,the enemies start to ramp up in difficulty and you are sitting there with static rewards,if you so care about them...
 Few bugs,scaling,time doesn't really give you reason to stay.

 

Thanks for reading,fellow tenno!Kisses,hugs and coffee mugs!

[Brandr_]

Get a frost/limbo/max range nyx. Boom, health issue resolved

 

the catalysts drop more catalysts than there are life support available, this glitch (while in need of a patch) does not seriously impede farming

 

and 200 per support is plenty, it's better than what we had before, and people got along just fine like that.

[fluffysnowcap]

12 hours ago, wolf96781 said:

200 per support is plenty, it's better than what we had before, and people got along just fine like that.

200 more than 0 is not a good argument, the endless kuva is quite frankly insulting, it reward 133.333 kuva per minute isn't exactly good and the lack of scaling In all endless missions but void fissure is a big problem.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I believe DE evaluated and deliberately set aside the idea of scaling Kuva rewards, so that Kuva Endless could not be used as the ultra-farm for Kuva. Kuva economy affects the platinum economy. They don't want scaling kuva-per-unit-time in the equation. 

DE may give in, but I doubt it. 

Edit: I don't have a dog in the fight, particularly -- I don't like most endless missions, and especially survival. So I have no plans to try this mode out anytime soon. But I don't think DE is "deaf" to the feedback, they've considered it and said "No, sorry." As I recall one of the folks in charge - DE Steve, maybe - never wanted to do Kuva-in-the-Kuva-Fortress anyway because it wasn't the vision. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Ham_Grenabe

[Damocles]

I spent 40 minutes to get 10,800 kuva in endless, while someone made a youtube video demonstrating how he could get 9k in 5 minutes killing himself before the flood siphon is destroyed to cheese the multiplier.

[War-Snake]

Hello everyone,

I think this is just the tipping point for something that we have been dealing with for a long time. Not sure if greed is what motivates me for writing this but in my opinion the crux of the matter is that there's an imbalance in scaling between the enemy levels and the rewards themselves. In old-school void maps that was ok because you were getting more rewards with the same key, awesome! In missions you can just exit and reboot with no downside this becomes a more glaring issue though.

Therefore I move to you, fellow Tenno, that it is not the endless kuva mode itself that is the problem, endless missions themselves should have incremental bonuses to reflect the increase in difficulty. Sure, a lot of players, myself included, have fun with high-level enemies but giving a small boost in drop chance or slightly more kuva (10-25 more per 20-30 min) would also have an effect of making the players feel rewarded for the spike in difficulty.

 

3 hours ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

I spent 40 minutes to get 10,800 kuva in endless, while someone made a youtube video demonstrating how he could get 9k in 5 minutes killing himself before the flood siphon is destroyed to cheese the multiplier.

I do believe the multiplier bug should be a top priority, this is not about min-maxing this is about general player enjoyment since not everyone is going to abuse bugs or maximize everything, make it fun don't make it a race to bug exploits and rigid load-outs.


Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts, wish you all the best!

[fluffysnowcap]

@War-Snake well all but one of the endless mission date back to update 7 to 10 ( i think) and the last bit of love i know they received was in update 19.

The game has changed a lot since then and well, the rewards are quite frankly lacking and since the replacement of keys there been no reason to go long on endless, and adding the void fissure scaling to all endless minus the relis of course will help spark a mini endless survival revolution. and i really miss long suvivals.

[ikillutwice]

 

@Ham_GrenabeI agree that they don't want scaling rewards but something small would be super nice. There is nothing right now that has real intensive for staying in missions since they got rid of keys long ago. I miss the staying as long as possible and fighting until I can not keep going. Now every mission is go for 20 minutes and leave. 

@fluffysnowcapI really miss long missions too. Here is what I think.

Even if all they did was make each one give 1 more kuva per siphon. (200, 201, 202). It would be a great way to give a small reward for staying longer. 10 siphons would give 45 more kuva (0-9th) and 20 siphons would give 190 (0-19). The rewards are not a big change for going for short missions, and they do not make long missions into massive kuva farming until you get above 20 which already can be hard for some teams.

[(PSN)KurouRyuuDrage]

I think it should be at least 400 kuva because after all that is not even close to being in between siphon and kuva floods. I would love to see that. Besides the amount of kuva u get does not affect the luck u might have at rolling a riven thus the Plat market will remain intact. Please increase the amount of kuva in all missions related kuva so people can enjoy them even without a booster.

[fluffysnowcap]

On 4/1/2018 at 5:48 PM, ikillutwice said:

 

@fluffysnowcapI really miss long missions too. Here is what I think.

Even if all they did was make each one give 1 more kuva per siphon. (200, 201, 202). It would be a great way to give a small reward for staying longer. 10 siphons would give 45 more kuva (0-9th) and 20 siphons would give 190 (0-19). The rewards are not a big change for going for short missions, and they do not make long missions into massive kuva farming until you get above 20 which already can be hard for some teams.

That's hardly a scaling reward, thats a insulting joke at best.

[Caduzeus]

17 hours ago, fluffysnowcap said:

That's hardly a scaling reward, thats a insulting joke at best.

One would be better than none :D

Though you are right. 0.5% increase is too little. I would be happy if it was (at least somewhat) balanced yet rewarding, like:

• 3 % increase per siphon until the gains are 400 per siphon (around an hour of play).
• 2 % increase per siphon after that.

Before there is some kind if scaling, I am just going to pass Kuva farming altogether. It would be fun to roll Rivens, but doing so in the current system is just too time-consuming.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Caduzeus

[Ham_Grenabe]

On 4/1/2018 at 12:48 PM, ikillutwice said:

 

@Ham_GrenabeI agree that they don't want scaling rewards but something small would be super nice. There is nothing right now that has real intensive for staying in missions since they got rid of keys long ago. I miss the staying as long as possible and fighting until I can not keep going. Now every mission is go for 20 minutes and leave. 

Perhaps non-scaling, just slightly higher, could strike a middle ground that works. I just think the risk DE perceives is that there are plenty of people who can easily spend basically infinite time a survival without breaking a sweat. They're probably also already the Riven economy drivers. Constantly available Kuva rewards that scale in any substantial way slides control of the platinum economy further away from DE, which is not in the company's best interests.

[Caduzeus]

12 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Perhaps non-scaling, just slightly higher, could strike a middle ground that works. I just think the risk DE perceives is that there are plenty of people who can easily spend basically infinite time a survival without breaking a sweat. They're probably also already the Riven economy drivers. Constantly available Kuva rewards that scale in any substantial way slides control of the platinum economy further away from DE, which is not in the company's best interests.

But then again we could argue that: more Kuva -> more good Rivens for sale -> lower prices.

The same thing happened when Arcanes became more readily available: prices dropped and more players now have access to them. Which is awesome!

[BlackCoMerc]

On 3/31/2018 at 1:23 PM, War-Snake said:

Hello everyone,

I think this is just the tipping point for something that we have been dealing with for a long time. Not sure if greed is what motivates me for writing this but in my opinion the crux of the matter is that there's an imbalance in scaling between the enemy levels and the rewards themselves. In old-school void maps that was ok because you were getting more rewards with the same key, awesome! In missions you can just exit and reboot with no downside this becomes a more glaring issue though.

Therefore I move to you, fellow Tenno, that it is not the endless kuva mode itself that is the problem, endless missions themselves should have incremental bonuses to reflect the increase in difficulty. Sure, a lot of players, myself included, have fun with high-level enemies but giving a small boost in drop chance or slightly more kuva (10-25 more per 20-30 min) would also have an effect of making the players feel rewarded for the spike in difficulty.

 

I do believe the multiplier bug should be a top priority, this is not about min-maxing this is about general player enjoyment since not everyone is going to abuse bugs or maximize everything, make it fun don't make it a race to bug exploits and rigid load-outs.


Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts, wish you all the best!

Rewards - or more properly the lack thereof - has become a problem:

20+ minutes, no relics

Eight excavators: no relics

Common mods in high level pools

DE is testing how far they can push with useless, time wasting rewards. And I think I have about had my fill.

I show up here and in game, occasionally, hoping it will get better. And it only gets worse.

We need a week long boycott, to drastically reduce Steam player numbers and leave them that way. Waste our time, we waste yours. Fairs fair.

But it won't happen. And so the slow, gradual decline will continue, as the Chinese money and the business model slowly choke Fun from the game.